Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have been hearing the exact same thing for awhile now

from a friend of mine I homeschool with who has twin boys

the same age as your son. She has a simple list of " chores "

which includes things like taking your dishes over to the sink

when you are done eating and giving the pets fresh water-

nothing complicated or outrageous- and she says EVERYDAY

it is as though it is the first time she has ever asked them

to do those things! There is no development of habits in those regards.

My non-OCD 13 year old son has always been similar. He is bright, smart,

fun, creative, and... always does better at being productive

when something is HIS idea or observation than when I ask him to

do things. Like regarding giving pets water- if he is out

in the kitchen hopping around being silly, runs into

the water bowl and sees it is empty, he will compassionately announce

" Oh, your water bowl is empty! Here, you guys, I'll give you

fresh water... " and away he hops to give them fresh water.

But if I say " Please give the dogs fresh water " his usual response

is to ask why can't his brother do it, or to complain that

he always has to be the one to give them water... Sound familiar?

This is an interesting topic of discussion. I really think

it has to do more with MEN- oops, I mean boys and in particular

boys of that age - then it does with OCD. I will be interested

in hearing more comments on this discussion. As to what to do-

what I believe (and what I told my other friend) is

don't make a big deal out of it because it will only make

you more upset and not change them. You have heard of picking battles

with your kids- I don't think this is a battle. I truly believe

it is a maturity/developmental issue. Dare I ask how your husband is

as far as his behaviour when it comes to doing things you ask

him to do/chores?????????

With friendship,

Marcia

>

> Subject: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

> To:

> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 9:14 AM

> I know this is a basic question, and I hope it doesn't

> sound too

> trite, but I was wondering at what point you get concerned

> when your

> child doesn't listen to you. I find myself repeating

> things to my

> non-OCD 11 year old sometimes 50 or more times and he still

> doesn't

> remember to do as I ask. It's not belligerance because

> he's not that

> kind of a kid. We did a neuropsyche test on him recently

> and results

> did not indicate ADHD but I am not sure as my husband and

> other son

> have it. I snapped this morning because he did a bunch of

> things in a

> row that I have asked him not to do dozens and dozens

> (could be

> hundreds!) of times. Maybe this is normal, but to me it

> seems quite

> excessive. For our OCD kids, repetition is the way of

> life. Maybe I

> am less tolerant for my non-OCD child because I am so sick

> of the

> repetition from my OCD kid. So, question is: at what

> point do you

> think the non-listening/remembering is cause for concern?

[Guest guest]

My PANDAS dd has the same problem.  We had a neuropsych test performed on her

and the most suprising result was that while she scored very high in

intelligence, her working memory was only in the 25th percentile!  The Dr said

this makes it very challenging for her to remember more than one thing at a

time.  She said this is common with OCD, but they don't know why.  This has

helped me be more patient with my daughter, and I if I need her to do more

things, I ask her then hand the list to her on a post it note.

Best wishes,

Peggy

Subject: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

To:

Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:14 AM

I know this is a basic question, and I hope it doesn't sound too

trite, but I was wondering at what point you get concerned when your

child doesn't listen to you. I find myself repeating things to my

non-OCD 11 year old sometimes 50 or more times and he still doesn't

remember to do as I ask. It's not belligerance because he's not that

kind of a kid. We did a neuropsyche test on him recently and results

did not indicate ADHD but I am not sure as my husband and other son

have it. I snapped this morning because he did a bunch of things in a

row that I have asked him not to do dozens and dozens (could be

hundreds!) of times. Maybe this is normal, but to me it seems quite

excessive. For our OCD kids, repetition is the way of life. Maybe I

am less tolerant for my non-OCD child because I am so sick of the

repetition from my OCD kid. So, question is: at what point do you

think the non-listening/ remembering is cause for concern?

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggy/others,

This is the same for ours, but with LD, didn't know about with OCD,

but makes sense since their brain is taken up with the O/C anyway.

The smaller working memory makes EVERYTHING harder for these kids.

Taking in info, processing, generating.

I had it explained to me as a " normal " working memory might be the

size of your diningroom table, these kids have maybe the size of a

side table. As information comes in the table fills and overflows

and they don't have enough space to manipulate the information. So

they have to " drop " information, usually either beginning of sentence

or middle, but catch the last thing said, depends. So instructions

with multiple parts are almost impossible. Also, great difficulty

waiting to tell you something, because they know they will forget if

they don't tell you NOW.

It really can make it seem like they are lacking in intelligence, or

even deliberately not trying sometimes. I still forget this part,

good to be reminded! I put a lot down to " teenage " brain, where the

executive function(judgement etc) is severely lacking until....can

someone tell me when???

Barb

>

>

> Subject: Parenting 101, when is it cause for

concern?

> To:

> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:14 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I know this is a basic question, and I hope it doesn't sound too

> trite, but I was wondering at what point you get concerned when your

> child doesn't listen to you. I find myself repeating things to my

> non-OCD 11 year old sometimes 50 or more times and he still doesn't

> remember to do as I ask. It's not belligerance because he's not that

> kind of a kid. We did a neuropsyche test on him recently and results

> did not indicate ADHD but I am not sure as my husband and other son

> have it. I snapped this morning because he did a bunch of things in

a

> row that I have asked him not to do dozens and dozens (could be

> hundreds!) of times. Maybe this is normal, but to me it seems quite

> excessive. For our OCD kids, repetition is the way of life. Maybe I

> am less tolerant for my non-OCD child because I am so sick of the

> repetition from my OCD kid. So, question is: at what point do you

> think the non-listening/ remembering is cause for concern?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > From: wjoltsik <wjoltsik@>

> > Subject: Parenting 101, when is it cause for

> concern?

> > To:

> > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:14 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I know this is a basic question, and I hope it doesn't sound too

> > trite, but I was wondering at what point you get concerned when your

> > child doesn't listen to you. I find myself repeating things to my

> > non-OCD 11 year old sometimes 50 or more times and he still doesn't

> > remember to do as I ask. It's not belligerance because he's not that

> > kind of a kid. We did a neuropsyche test on him recently and results

> > did not indicate ADHD but I am not sure as my husband and other son

> > have it. I snapped this morning because he did a bunch of things in

> a

> > row that I have asked him not to do dozens and dozens (could be

> > hundreds!) of times. Maybe this is normal, but to me it seems quite

> > excessive. For our OCD kids, repetition is the way of life. Maybe I

> > am less tolerant for my non-OCD child because I am so sick of the

> > repetition from my OCD kid. So, question is: at what point do you

> > think the non-listening/ remembering is cause for concern?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Selective Hearing!  I love it!  I'm going to give my husband his new diagnosis

today. ;-)

On a more serious note, my daughters' table overflows quickly.  I have to talk

to her in parts and make sure she understands each one before I go on (has

nothing to do with intelligence).  My oldest son also has to say things NOW

before he forgets (he does).  My youngest son freaks easily (anxiety) so I have

to make sure to break things down for him into bite size pieces.

 

________________________________

To:

Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 1:07:24 PM

Subject: Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

> >

> > From: wjoltsik <wjoltsik@>

> > Subject: Parenting 101, when is it cause for

> concern?

> > To: @ yahoogroups. com

> > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:14 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I know this is a basic question, and I hope it doesn't sound too

> > trite, but I was wondering at what point you get concerned when your

> > child doesn't listen to you. I find myself repeating things to my

> > non-OCD 11 year old sometimes 50 or more times and he still doesn't

> > remember to do as I ask. It's not belligerance because he's not that

> > kind of a kid. We did a neuropsyche test on him recently and results

> > did not indicate ADHD but I am not sure as my husband and other son

> > have it. I snapped this morning because he did a bunch of things in

> a

> > row that I have asked him not to do dozens and dozens (could be

> > hundreds!) of times. Maybe this is normal, but to me it seems quite

> > excessive. For our OCD kids, repetition is the way of life. Maybe I

> > am less tolerant for my non-OCD child because I am so sick of the

> > repetition from my OCD kid. So, question is: at what point do you

> > think the non-listening/ remembering is cause for concern?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

That is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Every morning

before school I have to ask my son to put on his shoes otherwise he

just stands there, waiting to be told what to do next or just in his

own world. In fact, feeding the dog was one of things today that got

me all riled up. For 2 years now, I have to remind him every day to

do it. As you say, it's like it's the first time I'm asking! Then, we

get into forgetting where he puts things.... I just spent $20 on

new ski gloves that he 'lost' which were just in his backpack the

whole time. I asked him over and over if he checked everywhere,

including his backpack. I hate when he cracks his knuckles and he

knows that. Yet, first thing in the morning he wakes up, looks at me,

and cracks his knuckles. Every morning! Even after I warn him not to.

Etc. It just seems excessive to me.

Ironically, my OCD son doesn't have these kind of issues at all.

Again, this is my non-OCD kid and he has no signs in that direction.

He definitely has more ADHD symptoms, yet neither his classroom

teacher nor the neuropsych testing indicated it. He did not have

working memory deficits.

Could be the 'male' thing, although I noticed a few of you mentioned

it's your daughter who does it. And yeah, you look at the definition

for 'forgetful' in the dictionary and you will see a picture of my

husband. I have to constantly remind him to do things, and then, of

course, I'm " nagging " . Can't win for losing. If indeed my youngest

has it, then I am living with 3 ADHD males!!! Luckily for them, I

happen to be an extremely detail oriented person.

The serious side of this, in my house, is that I often unravel at what

appears to be the little things, but it is all cumulative, much

resulting from these constant micro-management issues. I am sure that

many of you understand this. Unfortunately, it has caused serious

problems in my marriage as my husband runs away from the situation

when it gets loud, which angers me more. He is 'flight' I am 'fight'.

[Guest guest]

Wow! The " smaller working memory " talk would sure explain a lot about my DD,

14. Chores continue to be a struggle with her. It's not that she's refusing,

she just never seems to " hear " the request or the instructions. We have to tell

her to go do it NOW and make sure she gets it started before we can relax our

vigil. Then there's my poor son, who still does his chores but flares out

occasionally because it's " not fair " , which I agree!

My hubby and I are both guilty of letting things slide sometimes. We get so

tired of working and doing so much, and then throw the OCD on top of it,

somedays we just blow off everything. But I'm the worst about forgetting to do

things he's asked me, I just can't seem to remember things for more than a few

minutes. I ran into a person I've known for 10 years but haven't seen in awhile

and totally blanked on his name! Soooo embarrassing!

One thing about , I've always had to break down instructions for her, one

step at a time, she's always had issues processing multi-step things. Who would

do a neuropsyche eval? I might look into this.

Debbie

http://twochinadolls.blogspot.com

____________________________________________________________

Find the writing help you need for any essay topic. Click now!

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[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie,

A neuropsychologist did my daughters evaluation.  It took 3 mornings (8:30 to

11:00am) to complete.

Best wishes,

Peggy

Subject: Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

To:

Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 11:30 AM

Wow! The " smaller working memory " talk would sure explain a lot about my DD, 14.

Chores continue to be a struggle with her. It's not that she's refusing, she

just never seems to " hear " the request or the instructions. We have to tell her

to go do it NOW and make sure she gets it started before we can relax our vigil.

Then there's my poor son, who still does his chores but flares out occasionally

because it's " not fair " , which I agree!

My hubby and I are both guilty of letting things slide sometimes. We get so

tired of working and doing so much, and then throw the OCD on top of it,

somedays we just blow off everything. But I'm the worst about forgetting to do

things he's asked me, I just can't seem to remember things for more than a few

minutes. I ran into a person I've known for 10 years but haven't seen in awhile

and totally blanked on his name! Soooo embarrassing!

One thing about , I've always had to break down instructions for her, one

step at a time, she's always had issues processing multi-step things. Who would

do a neuropsyche eval? I might look into this.

Debbie

http://twochinadoll s.blogspot. com

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Find the writing help you need for any essay topic. Click now!

http://thirdpartyof fers.netzero. net/TGL2241/ fc/PnY6rx8QozAmo IgKDQOhQfbUV8IwQ

lvm05lCDP5LABKU7 X5FuKH6x/

[Guest guest]

When I behave as you do (which is all the time...)

my husband accuses me of being difficult, making everything

complicated, and micro-managing. No appreciation

for what I think is being " helpful, thoughtful, prepared, responsible... "

Nope, they don't see it that way. It's not even a matter of

appreciation- it is worst than that. Not only do they not

appreciate it, they basically hate you for it.

Where I go wrong perhaps is that I am always intercepting

the outcome. I look at them and know " If you do that,

thus and so will happen " . I don't want thus and so to happen

so I try to intercept the outcome and instead they hate it.

I should keep my hands off and let the " bad " outcome happen.

They should simply " suffer the consequences " , whatever

the consequences are. Where I think I have been wrong

is that instead of trying to protect my self from the negative outcome,

I should remove myself at the very beginning instead of at the end.

Like with the glove thing, for example- don't even ask if he

has his gloves. Whereas I would be sure he had his gloves

before I even ask, just choose to not even get involved.

Or, let your husband be in charge of your son's finding things,

instead of you. And what if your husband is in charge of

waking up your son, too, then you aren't even there

to have him cracking his knuckles. See, it is so much easier

solving someone else's problems

I hope we can keep talking about this- it is helping me open my eyes

>

> Subject: Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

> To:

> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 1:01 PM

> That is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Every

> morning

> before school I have to ask my son to put on his shoes

> otherwise he

> just stands there, waiting to be told what to do next or

> just in his

> own world. In fact, feeding the dog was one of things

> today that got

> me all riled up. For 2 years now, I have to remind him

> every day to

> do it. As you say, it's like it's the first time

> I'm asking! Then, we

> get into forgetting where he puts things.... I just spent

> $20 on

> new ski gloves that he 'lost' which were just in

> his backpack the

> whole time. I asked him over and over if he checked

> everywhere,

> including his backpack. I hate when he cracks his knuckles

> and he

> knows that. Yet, first thing in the morning he wakes up,

> looks at me,

> and cracks his knuckles. Every morning! Even after I warn

> him not to.

> Etc. It just seems excessive to me.

>

> Ironically, my OCD son doesn't have these kind of

> issues at all.

> Again, this is my non-OCD kid and he has no signs in that

> direction.

> He definitely has more ADHD symptoms, yet neither his

> classroom

> teacher nor the neuropsych testing indicated it. He did

> not have

> working memory deficits.

>

> Could be the 'male' thing, although I noticed a few

> of you mentioned

> it's your daughter who does it. And yeah, you look at

> the definition

> for 'forgetful' in the dictionary and you will see

> a picture of my

> husband. I have to constantly remind him to do things, and

> then, of

> course, I'm " nagging " . Can't win for

> losing. If indeed my youngest

> has it, then I am living with 3 ADHD males!!! Luckily for

> them, I

> happen to be an extremely detail oriented person.

>

> The serious side of this, in my house, is that I often

> unravel at what

> appears to be the little things, but it is all cumulative,

> much

> resulting from these constant micro-management issues. I

> am sure that

> many of you understand this. Unfortunately, it has caused

> serious

> problems in my marriage as my husband runs away from the

> situation

> when it gets loud, which angers me more. He is

> 'flight' I am 'fight'.

[Guest guest]

My son is this way all the time, always has been. Since he's an only

child, I had no one to compare him to. After talking to some of my

friends, I have found that it's fairly common among kids. With my

son, I have to ask him to do something over and over until it's

done. Or if I tell him to go to his room to put his shoes on because

we're going out, he disappears in his room until I go find him in his

room reading or playing with something. He'll get distracted by

something along the way and " forget " that I'm waiting for him. Yet

if a friend rings the doorbell to play outside and he has to go get

his shoes on, he's done in 5 seconds! So I think a lot of it has to

do with the motivating factor.

My husband grew up in a family of 5 boys, and he's always just

said " he's being a little boy. " My husband is similar too - ask him

to change the cat's litter box over and over, and I end up doing it a

few days later. It does drive me crazy sometimes, but like someone

else said, you have to pick your battles.

I also deal with the lost items as well. I feel like I need to keep

a mental inventory of everything my son owns! He constantly asks me

if I know where something is. His idea of looking for something is

walking into a room and looking side to side, and saying he can't

find it. I'll walk into the same room, see " it " sitting on the

table, and tell him I found it but I won't tell him where it is.

He's got to learn to find things on his own.

Definitely not an OCD thing, but a good off topic conversation!

[Guest guest]

************

Definitely not an OCD thing, but a good off topic conversation!

************

I think you are right, . The only time I think it could be

considered an OCD thing, is if it the need to do rituals (mental or

physical) is distracting them or slowing them down.

Hopefully, they will outgrow it (the non OCD stuff), yet as I said,

I'm still waiting for my husband to, and he's 48. <grin>

BJ

>

> My son is this way all the time, always has been. Since he's an only

> child, I had no one to compare him to. After talking to some of my

> friends, I have found that it's fairly common among kids. With my

> son, I have to ask him to do something over and over until it's

> done. Or if I tell him to go to his room to put his shoes on because

> we're going out, he disappears in his room until I go find him in his

> room reading or playing with something. He'll get distracted by

> something along the way and " forget " that I'm waiting for him. Yet

> if a friend rings the doorbell to play outside and he has to go get

> his shoes on, he's done in 5 seconds! So I think a lot of it has to

> do with the motivating factor.

>

> My husband grew up in a family of 5 boys, and he's always just

> said " he's being a little boy. " My husband is similar too - ask him

> to change the cat's litter box over and over, and I end up doing it a

> few days later. It does drive me crazy sometimes, but like someone

> else said, you have to pick your battles.

>

> I also deal with the lost items as well. I feel like I need to keep

> a mental inventory of everything my son owns! He constantly asks me

> if I know where something is. His idea of looking for something is

> walking into a room and looking side to side, and saying he can't

> find it. I'll walk into the same room, see " it " sitting on the

> table, and tell him I found it but I won't tell him where it is.

> He's got to learn to find things on his own.

>

> Definitely not an OCD thing, but a good off topic conversation!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

is that I often unravel at what appears to be the little

things, but it is all cumulative,

Well, nice to know it's not just me! I often told my sons that.

I'll explode over some " minor " thing but it's that there's been

30 " things " before that, etc. It is cumulative! Being aware of

that, I did do better, somewhat. When that " snap " comes on my

temper/nerves, after the first few sentences I could recognize this

and stop myself to calm. Did that solve anything, no, but did keep

me from punishing too harsh or unnecessarily or venting longer,

etc. :-)

>

> That is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Every morning

> before school I have to ask my son to put on his shoes otherwise he

> just stands there, waiting to be told what to do next or just in his

[Guest guest]

Hmmmmm.... Ok, now it seems like you're talking male/female

differences, caretaker/details/multitaskers vs I'm busy doing my one

thing, or fuzzed out....

Mine complain that I take too long to get ready to go out the door,

which is because I'm throwing some food at the dog, throwing in a

load of laundry, grabbing the grocery list, turning the lights off,

locking the door....

When I stopped " running the show " and did nothing for a couple of

days they felt the accumulation of mess, no food, laundry etc, and

gained some appreciation, for about a day! Yes, it is my own fault I

do everything, but my husband works six days a week, long hours, and

I am one that wants it done, never mind done " right " ....

Ok, that was way off topic, but it sure factor in when OCD is on

board. The load can become oppressive and yes I snapped all the

time, pretty much lost my mind, not sure if I regained it....

Stopping now....

Barb

>

> ************

>

> Definitely not an OCD thing, but a good off topic conversation!

>

> ************

>

>

> I think you are right, . The only time I think it could be

> considered an OCD thing, is if it the need to do rituals (mental or

> physical) is distracting them or slowing them down.

>

> Hopefully, they will outgrow it (the non OCD stuff), yet as I said,

> I'm still waiting for my husband to, and he's 48. <grin>

>

> BJ

[Guest guest]

Barb, Bless you on your wisdom and don't all of us moms experience what you are

         going through since we all sail in the same boat together.  How right

you are

         when the OCD can take the wind out of our sail and steers us in another

         direction just as we are trying to get out the door,  Appreciation by

our kids

         is always delayed and someday their hearts might show the compassion we

         long for in those tough times.   Thank you  

Subject: Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

To:

Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 6:06 PM

Hmmmmm.... Ok, now it seems like you're talking male/female

differences, caretaker/details/ multitaskers vs I'm busy doing my one

thing, or fuzzed out....

Mine complain that I take too long to get ready to go out the door,

which is because I'm throwing some food at the dog, throwing in a

load of laundry, grabbing the grocery list, turning the lights off,

locking the door....

When I stopped " running the show " and did nothing for a couple of

days they felt the accumulation of mess, no food, laundry etc, and

gained some appreciation, for about a day! Yes, it is my own fault I

do everything, but my husband works six days a week, long hours, and

I am one that wants it done, never mind done " right " ....

Ok, that was way off topic, but it sure factor in when OCD is on

board. The load can become oppressive and yes I snapped all the

time, pretty much lost my mind, not sure if I regained it....

Stopping now....

Barb

>

> ************

>

> Definitely not an OCD thing, but a good off topic conversation!

>

> ************

>

>

> I think you are right, . The only time I think it could be

> considered an OCD thing, is if it the need to do rituals (mental or

> physical) is distracting them or slowing them down.

>

> Hopefully, they will outgrow it (the non OCD stuff), yet as I said,

> I'm still waiting for my husband to, and he's 48. <grin>

>

> BJ

[Guest guest]

You are entitled to a free psychoeducational evaluation from your school

district if she is having trouble in school and you feel that you would like to

see how she can best be helped.  This usually includes a WISC, which is an

individual IQ test and can give you a measure of working memory, but I would

imagine that attention issues and/or OCD issues could put a damper on how much

she can keep in memory as well.

Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

Wow! The " smaller working memory " talk would sure explain a lot about my DD,

14. Chores continue to be a struggle with her. It's not that she's refusing,

she just never seems to " hear " the request or the instructions. We have to tell

her to go do it NOW and make sure she gets it started before we can relax our

vigil. Then there's my poor son, who still does his chores but flares out

occasionally because it's " not fair " , which I agree!

My hubby and I are both guilty of letting things slide sometimes. We get so

tired of working and doing so much, and then throw the OCD on top of it,

somedays we just blow off everything. But I'm the worst about forgetting to do

things he's asked me, I just can't seem to remember things for more than a f

ew minutes. I ran into a person I've known for 10 years but haven't seen in

awhile and totally blanked on his name! Soooo embarrassing!

One thing about , I've always had to break down instructions for her, one

step at a time, she's always had issues processing multi-step things. Who would

do a neuropsyche eval? I might look into this.

Debbie

http://twochinadolls.blogspot.com

__________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Uh, Oh....I actually meant to be funny, but reread what I wrote. It

can be hard to read the tone in email can't it...? Still truth in it

either way, reality under the humour.

I am fortunate that our son is doing better and the OCD really

doesn't hold us up anymore, but do remember well when it did bring

everything to a grinding halt. As for appreciation for what we give

our children, I suspect that can only truly come if and when they

have their own. I know I wonder often how my Mum managed with six

when I can barely manage one.

Thankfully understanding and compassion is right here with all the

wonderful people in this group, for which I am forever grateful.

Hugs to you!

Barb

>

> Barb, Bless you on your wisdom and don't all of us moms experience

what you are

>          going through since we all sail in the same boat

together.  How right you are

>          when the OCD can take the wind out of our sail and steers

us in another

>          direction just as we are trying to get out the door, 

Appreciation by our kids

>          is always delayed and someday their hearts might show the

compassion we

>          long for in those tough times.   Thank you  

[Guest guest]

>>while she scored very high in intelligence, her working memory was only in the

25th percentile!

I never thought about this having anything to do with OCD but . . . when Kate

was evaluated for vision therapy last year this was one of the concerns. She

was 8 years old and reading at a 7th grade reading level but her " visual memory "

was very low for her age. Apparently when we are told to do a list of things we

" visualize " ourselves doing those things . . . but Kate doesn't. She still has

trouble with following directions but I never put that together with her mind

being preoccupied with OCD thoughts.

In school today a classmate's father (a doctor) came and brought a real human

brain (they are finishing up their " brain unit " ). Kate was both fascinated and

repulsed by it . . . but she stayed in the room and toughed it out. Tonight she

was a total chatterbox . . . jabber, jabber, jabber. I finally said, " Can we

just play cards without the commentary!? " She gave me a hurt look and quietly

said, " I was just trying to keep my mind off the brain. " She definitely has a

one-track mind but it never occured to me that her chatterboxing was a way of

" talking back " to her OCD. Poor kid!

Beth

[Guest guest]

Hi Beth,

Sometimes distraction is the only thing they can do that works to

keep the mind from obsessing. I know the chatterboxing must get

pretty irritating, but she sounds very sweet. We're at the other end

with an often uncommunicative teen it, much better now, but often

wondered what was going on inside that head. Mind you other times I

would rather not have known.

Interesting about your daughter's visual memory. We had our son

assessed when he was young and found both visual and aural processing

compromised. When our son was really severe he told me he could

replay an entire day back in his head, and had to as ritual. He said

he felt his brain capacity had expanded. Wonder what testing might

show now. These brains are definitely different, sure there are

individual differences as well.

How is Kate doing these days?

Barb

>

> >>while she scored very high in intelligence, her working memory

was only in the 25th percentile!

>

> I never thought about this having anything to do with OCD

but . . . when Kate was evaluated for vision therapy last year this

was one of the concerns. She was 8 years old and reading at a 7th

grade reading level but her " visual memory " was very low for her

age. Apparently when we are told to do a list of things

we " visualize " ourselves doing those things . . . but Kate doesn't.

She still has trouble with following directions but I never put that

together with her mind being preoccupied with OCD thoughts.

>

> In school today a classmate's father (a doctor) came and brought a

real human brain (they are finishing up their " brain unit " ). Kate

was both fascinated and repulsed by it . . . but she stayed in the

room and toughed it out. Tonight she was a total chatterbox . . .

jabber, jabber, jabber. I finally said, " Can we just play cards

without the commentary!? " She gave me a hurt look and quietly

said, " I was just trying to keep my mind off the brain. " She

definitely has a one-track mind but it never occured to me that her

chatterboxing was a way of " talking back " to her OCD. Poor kid!

>

> Beth

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes exactly Chris/ " wjoltsik " . You never get credit for the hours

prior to the snap that you held it together, kept your patience,

didn't react to all the multiple things thrown your way.... Just see

the snap, and " crazy " Mum. Now my son quite enjoys this and will

deliberately provoke, so as I've said before I figure I might as well

oblige.

Good to know we're not alone on this one.

Barb

is that I often unravel at what appears to be the little

> things, but it is all cumulative,

>

> Well, nice to know it's not just me! I often told my sons that.

> I'll explode over some " minor " thing but it's that there's been

> 30 " things " before that, etc. It is cumulative! Being aware of

> that, I did do better, somewhat. When that " snap " comes on my

> temper/nerves, after the first few sentences I could recognize this

> and stop myself to calm. Did that solve anything, no, but did keep

> me from punishing too harsh or unnecessarily or venting longer,

> etc. :-)

>

>

>

>

> >

> > That is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Every

morning

> > before school I have to ask my son to put on his shoes otherwise

he

> > just stands there, waiting to be told what to do next or just in

his

>

[Guest guest]

This slightly 'off-topic' conversation has brought up so many

touchstones that we have as a group. It is comforting and validating

to me that so many of you unravel and snap. I am so ostracized in my

house for my 'anger' issues and both my kids and my husband are always

blaming it on me. They seriously never recognize that it is their

behaviours that kick it off. In my case, my husband is completely

hands off in regards to managing any aspect of the kids lives.

Occassionally he will take them skiing, or watch a football game with

them, but when it comes to the demanding tasks, he's nowhere to be

found. He still, after 4 years, knows nothing about OCD and has never

tried learning. He has gone to maybe a total of 3 shrink

appointments. Regarding my OCD son who is doing well this month he

said " I told you he would grow out of it! " Oh yeah, it just

mysteriously goes away.... it has nothing to do with 4 years of

tweaking meds, CBT, and countless Dr. visits. Yes, I'm going to unravel.

Yesterday, after the 'forgetting' incident with my 11 year old son, he

told me that he mentioned my 'anger' issues to a friend of his at

school and that he thinks I am nice about 75% of the time, and angry

about 25% of the time. Not true, of course, but I'm waiting for that

phone call from the Office for Children once his friend spreads the word.

I think you guys 'get' that when there is one primary caregiver (even

if there are 2 adults in the house), when there are serious mental

health issues to manage on top of everything else, there is a breaking

point. I know this topic has been brought up before, and some people

cry in the shower, some people leave the room, and others catch

themselves in time. But how much can we take and keep smiling all the

time? I think it is an unrealistic expectation and suppression will

only result in our own breakdowns.

[Guest guest]

It sounds like the source of your anger may be your husband's lack of

understanding and pulling his weight.  If you insisted, would he go for

counseling with you so that you two could have a chance to change this?  Maybe

your snapping is misplaced on your kids and it would be great help to them to,

if you could get your husband " with the program " through counseling.

Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

This slightly 'off-topic' conversation has brought up so many

touchstones that we have as a group. It is comforting and validating

to me that so many of you unravel and snap. I am so ostracized in my

house for my 'anger' issues and both my kids and my husband are always

blaming it on me. They seriously never recognize that it is their

behaviours that kick it off. In my case, my husband is completely

hands off in regards to managing any aspect of the kids lives.

Occassionally he will take them skiing, or watch a football game with

them, but when it comes to the demanding tasks, he's nowhere to be

found. He still, after 4 years, knows nothing about OCD and has never

tried learning. He has gone to maybe a total of 3 shrink

appointments. Regarding my OCD son who is doing well this month=2

0he

said " I told you he would grow out of it! " Oh yeah, it just

mysteriously goes away.... it has nothing to do with 4 years of

tweaking meds, CBT, and countless Dr. visits. Yes, I'm going to unravel.

Yesterday, after the 'forgetting' incident with my 11 year old son, he

told me that he mentioned my 'anger' issues to a friend of his at

school and that he thinks I am nice about 75% of the time, and angry

about 25% of the time. Not true, of course, but I'm waiting for that

phone call from the Office for Children once his friend spreads the word.

I think you guys 'get' that when there is one primary caregiver (even

if there are 2 adults in the house), when there are serious mental

health issues to manage on top of everything else, there is a breaking

point. I know this topic has been brought up before, and some people

cry in the shower, some people leave the room, and others catch

themselves in time. But how much can we take and keep smiling all the

time? I think it is an unrealistic expectation and suppression will

only result in our own breakdowns.

[Guest guest]

Jordana, you are as insightful as ever. We started counseling a few

months ago, although we only go every 2 weeks and things are moving

slowly. I do give him credit for agreeing to go. Just this week I

was thinking how I have to step up my descriptions to the therapist of

what's going on. She is very good, but still isn't getting a good

picture of things. I think I will start journaling things, as I think

better that way.

I do worry that I take my husband anger out on my kids, but it really

is a combination of things. My resentment towards the husband -

especially over his ignoring of the OCD/Anxiety/ADHD issues of my son

- is strong. Not to mention that it all came from his genetic pool to

begin with.

>

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> This slightly 'off-topic' conversation has brought up so many

>

> touchstones that we have as a group. It is comforting and validating

>

> to me that so many of you unravel and snap. I am so ostracized in my

>

> house for my 'anger' issues and both my kids and my husband are always

>

> blaming it on me. They seriously never recognize that it is their

>

> behaviours that kick it off. In my case, my husband is completely

>

> hands off in regards to managing any aspect of the kids lives.

>

> Occassionally he will take them skiing, or watch a football game with

>

> them, but when it comes to the demanding tasks, he's nowhere to be

>

> found. He still, after 4 years, knows nothing about OCD and has never

>

> tried learning. He has gone to maybe a total of 3 shrink

>

> appointments. Regarding my OCD son who is doing well this month=2

> 0he

>

> said " I told you he would grow out of it! " Oh yeah, it just

>

> mysteriously goes away.... it has nothing to do with 4 years of

>

> tweaking meds, CBT, and countless Dr. visits. Yes, I'm going to

unravel.

>

>

>

> Yesterday, after the 'forgetting' incident with my 11 year old son, he

>

> told me that he mentioned my 'anger' issues to a friend of his at

>

> school and that he thinks I am nice about 75% of the time, and angry

>

> about 25% of the time. Not true, of course, but I'm waiting for that

>

> phone call from the Office for Children once his friend spreads the

word.

>

>

>

> I think you guys 'get' that when there is one primary caregiver (even

>

> if there are 2 adults in the house), when there are serious mental

>

> health issues to manage on top of everything else, there is a breaking

>

> point. I know this topic has been brought up before, and some people

>

> cry in the shower, some people leave the room, and others catch

>

> themselves in time. But how much can we take and keep smiling all the

>

> time? I think it is an unrealistic expectation and suppression will

>

> only result in our own breakdowns.

>

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[Guest guest]

I have REALLY bad visual memory.  Like my daughter I was stellar in school and

successfully graduated from an Ivy League university while I was horrendously

impaired by OCD because school is so easy for me.  On the other hand, I am a

complete idiot when it comes to visual memory.  I have a minivan and both the

front and back bumpers are so banged up because I am unable to remember where

they are compared to the car when I park.  You can't see the front of the van

from the driver's seat, and I just can't remember how much play I have in front

when I try to park, same with the back.  It is very hard for others to

understand this weird deficit I have.  I truly have trouble remembering where

things are in space when I am not seeing them.

Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

Hi Beth,

Sometimes distraction is the only thing they can do that works to

keep the mind from obsessing. I know the chatterboxing must get

pretty irritating, but she sounds very sweet. We're at the other end

with an often uncommunicative teen it, much better now, but often

wondered what was going on inside that head. Mind you other times I

would rather not have known.

Interesting

about your daughter's visual memory. We had our son

assessed when he was young and found both visual and aural processing

compromised. When our son was really severe he told me he could

replay an entire day back in his head, and had to as ritual. He said

he felt his brain capacity had expanded. Wonder what testing might

show now. These brains are definitely different, sure there are

individual differences as well.

How is Kate doing these days?

Barb

>

> >>while she scored very high in intelligence, her working memory

was only in the 25th percentile!

>

> I never thought about this having anything to do with OCD

but . . . when Kate was evaluated for vision therapy last year this

was one of the concerns. She was 8 years old and reading at a 7th

grade reading level but her " visual memory " was very low for her

age. Apparently when we are told to do a list of things

we " visualize " ourselves doing those things . . . but Kate doesn't.

She still has trouble with following directions but I never put that

together with her mind being preoccupied with OCD thoughts.

>

> In school today a classmate's father (a doctor) came and brought a

real human brain (they are finishing up their " brain unit " ). Kate

was both fascinated and repulsed by it . . . but she stayed in the

room and toughed it out.

Tonight she was a total chatterbox . . .

jabber, jabber, jabber. I finally said, " Can we just play cards

without the commentary!? " She gave me a hurt look and quietly

said, " I was just trying to keep my mind off the brain. " She

definitely has a one-track mind but it never occured to me that her

chatterboxing was a way of " talking back " to her OCD. Poor kid!

>

> Beth

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is SO great that he is willing to go to therapy.  I hope that this will

alleviate some of your stress and resentment.  It would be good to bring up

your resentment of his passing on the genes to the anxiety disorder, etc. to

your son.  I think that if he gets onboard with helping your son and

shouldering his share of parenting, this will help.  

Re: Parenting 101, when is it cause for concern?

Jordana, you are as insightful as ever. We started counseling a few

months ago, although we only go every 2 weeks and things are moving

slowly. I do give him credit for agreeing to go. Just this week I

was thinking how I have to step up my descriptions to the therapist of

what's going on. She is very good, but still isn't getting a good

picture of things. I think I will start journaling things, as I think

better that way.

I do worry that I take my husband anger out on my kids, but it really

is a combination of things. My resentment towards the husband -

especially over his ignoring of the OCD/Anxiety/ADHD issues of my son

- is strong. Not to mention that it all came from his genetic pool to

begin with.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This slightly 'off-topic' conversation has brought up so many

>

> touchstones that we have as a group. It is comforting and validating

>

> to me that so many of you unravel and snap. I am so ostracized in my

>

> house for my 'anger' issues and both my kids and my husband are always

>

> blaming it on me. They seriously never recognize that it is their

>

> behaviours that kick it off. In my case, my husband is completely

>

> hands off in regards to managing any aspect of the kids lives.

>

> Occassionally he will take them skiing, or watch a football game with

>

> them, but when it comes to the demanding tasks, he's nowhere to be

>

> found. He still, after 4 years, knows nothing about OCD and has never

>

> tried learning. He has gone to maybe a total of 3 shrink

>

> appointments. Regarding my OCD son who is doing well this month=2

> 0he

>

> said " I told you he would grow out of it! " Oh yeah, it just

>

> mysteriously goes away.... it has nothing to do with 4 years of

>

> tweaking meds, CBT, and countless Dr. visits. Yes, I'm going to

unravel.

>

>

>

> Yesterday, after the 'forgetting' incident with my 11 year old son, he

>

> told me that he mentioned=2

0my 'anger' issues to a friend of his at

>

> school and that he thinks I am nice about 75% of the time, and angry

>

> about 25% of the time. Not true, of course, but I'm waiting for that

>

> phone call from the Office for Children once his friend spreads the

word.

>

>

>

> I think you guys 'get' that when there is one primary caregiver (even

>

> if there are 2 adults in the house), when there are serious mental

>

> health issues to manage on top of everything else, there is a breaking

>

> point. I know this topic has been brought up before, and some people

>

> cry in the shower, some people leave the room, and others catch

>

> themselves in time. But how much can we take and keep smiling all the

>

> time? I think it is an unrealistic expectation and suppression will

>

> only result in our own breakdowns.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi there " wjoltsik " ,

Just wanted to add some thoughts. The first parent support meeting I

went to (all mental illnesses) I quickly discovered the majority of

people, about 15, were divorced. While divorce is a reality and

common according to stats, it would seem even higher with mental

illness on board, and no surprise really. The level of stress,

fatigue, no anwers, lack of support, isolation because unlike when

your child has a physical disorder you don't talk about it at large

and receive support or at least conern, understanding from others.

There were many times during the " around the clock " OCD times, when

nothing worked and dependency was high, and independent movement,

self care was almost impossible that I wanted to run away from home,

blamed my husband for not shouldering more of it, lamented the lack

of meaningful support and answers from professionals. I think the

reality is that it often is an impossible situation, that one

basically just endures, and in perhaps the " healthier " moments lashes

out at whoever is closest, because everything is not alright and you

need to express that.

Whatever is not " right " in a relationship/marriage is just hightened

and magnified. If it's solid enough you just hang together and get

through it, and maybe even come to better understanding about each

other's limitations and strengths. I know I lashed out at my husband

for some things that were legitimate, but really it was out of anger,

frustration, fear, devastation over the disorder that had taken over

and levelled us all. He was the trusted person who I knew could take

it, and to his credit he knew it was mostly about me and not him, and

I knew he had his limitations and it was not personal. We were both

doing the best we could and that's all we could do, but it was not

enough we were all sinking...

My point being, while some of it is within our control to manage, we

all have our personal challenges and situations besides our children

with OCD, but this illness can take over and literally " wring out " an

entire family. Then finding the " answers " to the illness, ie

professionals who are experienced and trained (rare for many), gather

information about OCD to inform yourself and family, try to employ

ERP on your own (not possible for many) etc, etc. So even when you

know what is supposed to work, and it doesn't, it's just another

dragging down on everyone, and on and on you go with no end in sight.

So, a little " snap " here and there, while maybe not helpful

all 'round, in my view is just " real " , given the impossible

circumstances many find themselves in when this life sucking disorder

seaps into your home and wreaks havoc.

Just my thoughts.

Barb

>

> This slightly 'off-topic' conversation has brought up so many

> touchstones that we have as a group. It is comforting and

validating

> to me that so many of you unravel and snap. I am so ostracized in my

> house for my 'anger' issues and both my kids and my husband are

always

> blaming it on me. They seriously never recognize that it is their

> behaviours that kick it off. In my case, my husband is completely

> hands off in regards to managing any aspect of the kids lives.

> Occassionally he will take them skiing, or watch a football game

with

> them, but when it comes to the demanding tasks, he's nowhere to be

> found. He still, after 4 years, knows nothing about OCD and has

never

> tried learning. He has gone to maybe a total of 3 shrink

> appointments. Regarding my OCD son who is doing well this month he

> said " I told you he would grow out of it! " Oh yeah, it just

> mysteriously goes away.... it has nothing to do with 4 years of

> tweaking meds, CBT, and countless Dr. visits. Yes, I'm going to

unravel.

>

> Yesterday, after the 'forgetting' incident with my 11 year old son,

he

> told me that he mentioned my 'anger' issues to a friend of his at

> school and that he thinks I am nice about 75% of the time, and angry

> about 25% of the time. Not true, of course, but I'm waiting for

that

> phone call from the Office for Children once his friend spreads the

word.

>

> I think you guys 'get' that when there is one primary caregiver

(even

> if there are 2 adults in the house), when there are serious mental

> health issues to manage on top of everything else, there is a

breaking

> point. I know this topic has been brought up before, and some

people

> cry in the shower, some people leave the room, and others catch

> themselves in time. But how much can we take and keep smiling all

the

> time? I think it is an unrealistic expectation and suppression will

> only result in our own breakdowns.

>