Re: Disturbing trend

[Guest guest]

,As we watch the cycle with an ovulation method of fertility awareness (in my practice Creighton Model) we are given amazing objective information about the hormones affecting it.  Women typically have a post ovulation phase of 10-16 days (outer limits of normal being 9-17 days).  When it becomes shortened, or we see pre-menstrual spotting, or sometimes even post-menstrual brown bleeding we begin to suspect that there may be lack of normal compliment of hormones in that phase.  In clinical evaluation of the problem we prove hormonal imbalance by doing hormonal blood testing on certain days post-ovulation (strategically not randomly).

To give progesterone cooperatively means that one would wait until ovulation has passed and give progesterone during the time when the woman has shown us she is low (supplementing where she shows suboptimal numbers).  Because we know that a luteal phase length is normal when it is greater than the 9 days we start with 10 days of progesterone supplementation.  If she truly begins her period before the end of the progesterone dose she stops the progesterone (and we re-evaluate hormones while she is in treatment to see if she needs more or less).

One could argue- " well then aren't to manipulating HER cycle " .  And we would argue back, yes- augmenting it to make her more healthy and help her fertility.  Due to years of clinical research we can say WHAT healthy cycles are.  Use of progesterone can do amazing things for her health and fertility when done well.  We are decreasing her risk of breast and endometrial cancer.  We are trying to balance her to help her mood and PMS symptoms.  We are trying to decrease her risk of osteoporosis (we now know that both estradiol and progesterone affect bone health).  In some women we are augmenting her chances of sustaining a pregnancy if it occurred.

More in depth information can be gained from Dr. Hilger's book " The Medical and Surgical Practice of NaProTECHNOLOGY " Chapter 35 on Follicular and Luteal Phase Deficiencies.  Thanks for asking, thanks for reading.  May God bless us all with more wisdom in treating women!!!

Sincerely,Amy Hogan, MD

 

So, Amy, a follow-up question for you and/or other medical or health-care professionals here - what exactly does it mean in practice to give progesterone cooperatively with the cycle vs. to manipulate it - in terms of what amount is given when, and in terms of the resulting effect on the cycle?  This isn't a rhetorical question - I do not know the answer and am interested in it.

 

 

PS - I agree that intercourse during bleeding isn't a moral problem - but I would also understand if many couples found it an insurmountable problem anyway and felt the need to wait.

 

Re: Disturbing trend

 

Dear Peers,Using post-peak progesterone makes sense if it is done cooperatively with the cycle- NOT to manipulate it.  is right... if one wants to engage sexually during the period there is no moral problem, just a messy problem.  Usually though 1-3 days of heavy flow is all there is.  Especially if the couple has been chaste, they should have no problem waiting just a little.....It may even decrease the pressure to " perform " on the wedding night.  I had a friend who suddenly had back pain that went down his leg and had to go to surgery right after the wedding!!!  He spent their honeymoon in the hospital.  SHE had to wait for him.  Why does that seem like it is not such a big deal then?  In marriage there are a lot of short delays it expressing conjugal love.  We all need more patience... including with the body processes themselves.  If the bride or groom got food poisoning after the wedding one would not expect them to want to jump into sexual relations right then!  The cycle is a God-given gift.  We shall not use or manipulate it.  Yes- make it as healthy as possible to decrease pain and suffering (ie with progesterone in luteal phase).  No - to changing it for convenience or to avoid blood stains.(Kathy and Steve....  a one page article on the Pill before the marriage.  I will work on it.)Amy Hogan, MD

[Guest guest]

Amy - thanks. So you're talking about supplementing to deal with cycles in which there are abnormal symptoms caused by low progesterone - not lengthening normal cycles to keep normal bleeding from happening at an awkward time. I was thinking that it would be difficult to refer to the latter as cooperating with (vs. manipulating) the cycle - it does make sense to speak of the former in that way - assuming of course that the hormonal basis for the symptoms has been properly established.

Re: Disturbing trend

Dear Peers,Using post-peak progesterone makes sense if it is done cooperatively with the cycle- NOT to manipulate it. is right... if one wants to engage sexually during the period there is no moral problem, just a messy problem. Usually though 1-3 days of heavy flow is all there is. Especially if the couple has been chaste, they should have no problem waiting just a little.....It may even decrease the pressure to "perform" on the wedding night. I had a friend who suddenly had back pain that went down his leg and had to go to surgery right after the wedding!!! He spent their honeymoon in the hospital. SHE had to wait for him. Why does that seem like it is not such a big deal then? In marriage there are a lot of short delays it expressing conjugal love. We all need more patience... including with the body processes themselves. If the bride or groom got food poisoning after the wedding one would not expect them to want to jump into sexual relations right then! The cycle is a God-given gift. We shall not use or manipulate it. Yes- make it as healthy as possible to decrease pain and suffering (ie with progesterone in luteal phase). No - to changing it for convenience or to avoid blood stains.(Kathy and Steve.... a one page article on the Pill before the marriage. I will work on it.)Amy Hogan, MD