Re: More info re: Fat vs Low-Fat

February 23, 2006

so what should we do? Eat more fats or not?? All I know is I don't have an ounce

of fat on me and felt much better when I was a little heavier.

>

> Date: 2006/02/22 Wed PM 11:30:51 EST

> To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt

> Subject: More info re: Fat vs Low-Fat

>

February 23, 2006

What you should do is stop worrying about it. Eat butter, chicken with the skinon, good prime rib and pork chops, real whipped cream and whole milk. Don't eat margarine or anything that has the word " hydrogenated " in the list of

ingredients. Don't eat low/no-fat or reduced fat foods. They are generally highin carbs. (cornstarch, flour, other vegetable starches.)Be aware though, that fat is higher in calories per ounce than other types of foods so don't celebrate everyday. The advantage is that you won't get as hungryas soon after you eat because fats take from a few hours to a day or more,depending on the type, to be completely digested.

Good Luck!DennisOn 2/23/06, robcast2@... <robcast2@...

> wrote:

so what should we do? Eat more fats or not?? All I know is I don't have an ounce of fat on me and felt much better when I was a little heavier.

>

> Date: 2006/02/22 Wed PM 11:30:51 EST

> To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt

> Subject: More info re: Fat vs Low-Fat

>

February 23, 2006

Hi ,I have been a litte depressed since I took this Lipitor for 21 days in October. I am just mad at myself for taking it because I was healthy before. ROB

Hi Rob

I can understand you feeling depressed. You think you are being given something to help you and instead it makes you ill. Please don't feel mad at yourself for taking it, you took it in good faith. It is our doctors who should take the blame for not researching statins properly.

I was given Zocor/Simvastatin and was not aware of the dangers of statins at the time. Six weeks into taking it, in January, I experienced horrific pains in the muscles in my back and around my ribs. That is when I did some research on statins and found out about them. Since then I have stabbing pains in my kidneys now and then which I am sure is due to the statins.

But if we think of it in another way, Rob, at least we stopped them before they could do more damage. I have read about some people who have been taking them for years and then been really disabled by them. I think we have the chance to try to get ourselves healthy again, even though it may take us a little while. Being mad at ourselves will just cause stress and that won't do us any good.

Take care

February 23, 2006

Hi ,

I have been a litte depressed since I took this Lipitor for 21 days in October.

I am just mad at myself for taking it because I was healthy before.

ROB

>

> From: TreacleBears@...

> Date: 2006/02/23 Thu PM 01:34:43 EST

> To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt

> Subject: Re: More info re: Fat vs Low-Fat

>

> In a message dated 23/02/2006 14:41:23 GMT Standard Time,

> robcast2@... writes:

>

> so what should we do? Eat more fats or not?? All I know is I don't have an

> ounce of fat on me and felt much better when I was a little heavier

>

> It is like a minefield, Rob. We need some fat on us to be healthy and I

> feel better when I carry some.

> I don't think we can beat a balanced, low saturated fat diet and maybe a

> multi vitamin tablet in case we are missing out on anything. I don't eat

meat

> for other reasons, but I do eat a small amount of cheese occasionally and I

> eat one or two eggs a week. I think it's important to nourish our bodies

> properly or we will become ill and that includes a little fat. Personally

I

> won't eat more fat than I do now, simply because I don't think my body needs

> it.

> Why are you staying so thin if you feel better when you are a little

> heavier? You don't sound very happy, Rob.

>

February 23, 2006

thanks for the info Dennis I appreciate it.

Rob

>

> From: TreacleBears@...

> Date: 2006/02/23 Thu PM 01:45:13 EST

> To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt

> Subject: Re: More info re: Fat vs Low-Fat

>

> In a message dated 23/02/2006 15:33:18 GMT Standard Time, dgwicks@...

> writes:

>

> What you should do is stop worrying about it. Eat butter, chicken with the

> skin

> on, good prime rib and pork chops, real whipped cream and whole milk.

> Don't eat margarine or anything that has the word " hydrogenated " in the list

> of

> ingredients. Don't eat low/no-fat or reduced fat foods. They are generally

> high

> in carbs. (cornstarch, flour, other vegetable starches.)

>

> Be aware though, that fat is higher in calories per ounce than other types

> of

> foods so don't celebrate everyday. The advantage is that you won't get as

> hungry

> as soon after you eat because fats take from a few hours to a day or more,

> depending on the type, to be completely digested.

>

> Good Luck!

> Dennis

>

> I like to eat food in it's natural state and not after it has been

> processed. I think if we do this we don't get all the junk that is added to

processed

> food........including all you mention above. If you look at countries

> where they grow their own food you don't see the people suffering from the

> illnesses that we do in the west.

>

February 24, 2006

Hopefully with time it will disappear. It is just amazing that this is happening, when you are trying to prevent something and think you are helping yourself. I hope you feel better!Rob

Thank you Rob. I hope you recover your health too:)

February 27, 2006

,

Is your Tai Chi helping?

I went to my orthopaedist this morning. With my Tai Chi practice

and the stretching exercises at the gym I have been able to increase

the mobility in my hip at least a little and I'm going to try cutting

back on my anti-inflammatory drugs. I've been off Lipitor for 9 Months

now.

Jim

TreacleBears@... wrote:

AOL Email

Hi Rob

I can understand you

feeling depressed. You think you are being given something to help

you and instead it makes you ill. Please don't feel mad at yourself

for taking it, you took it in good faith. It is our doctors who should

take the blame for not researching statins properly.

I was given

Zocor/Simvastatin and was not aware of the dangers of statins at the

time. Six weeks into taking it, in January, I experienced horrific

pains in the muscles in my back and around my ribs. That is when I did

some research on statins and found out about them. Since then I have

stabbing pains in my kidneys now and then which I am sure is due to the

statins.

But if we think of it in

another way, Rob, at least we stopped them before they could do more

damage. I have read about some people who have been taking them for

years and then been really disabled by them. I think we have the

chance to try to get ourselves healthy again, even though it may take

us a little while. Being mad at ourselves will just cause stress and

that won't do us any good.

Take care

February 28, 2006

, Is your Tai Chi helping? I went to my orthopaedist this morning. With my Tai Chi practice and the stretching exercises at the gym I have been able to increase the mobility in my hip at least a little and I'm going to try cutting back on my anti-inflammatory drugs. I've been off Lipitor for 9 Months now.Jim

Hello Jim

Yes, I think Tai Chi is helping. I just do a little at a time at the moment because I don't have much space indoors. But when the weather is warm I like to do it outside.

It would be good if you could cut back on the anti-inflamatories. I can't take them as they upset my stomach too much. But my arthritis has'nt flared up for a while now. I don't know if it is because I don't eat meat anymore, I guess I shall have to wait and see:)

Are you feeling a lot better since not taking Lipitor? I am still getting pains around the kidney area.

Take care

February 28, 2006

Hi All,

I was on Lipitor a short time and was afraid of it due to what I read. Didn't really connect it to the aching in my calves and legs at the time for 6 months after, but it took a year to go away or more. I couldn't bare to go shopping anymore or do a lot of things, so I gained weight! That's really good for the ol heart problem and cholesterols, HDL, and all. I can say it's all gone and there is no way I'd go back on anything. I started taking CoQ on an irregular basis after that as the heart needs it and statins suppress it. Also now I'm taking some other supplements and really watching my diet for cholestrol and for my diabetes (double edged swore)...my LDH was 105, which I thought was great! My cardio wants it to be 75. I've been reading that too low of a cholesterol is NOT good either...I just need to lower my triglycerides and raise my poor HDL which has been around 19-22.

I can't figure out why most Dr's don't test for C Reactive Protein and Homocysteine levels to show inflammation, which causes the darn problems in the arteries to start with!! I'm going to ask my Dr about it next visit.

Lor

,

I feel a heck of a lot better than I did 9 Months ago. Whether this is due to getting off Lipitor, Tai Chi practise, taking the anti-inflammatory, or my work at the gym is anybody's guess. Given what I'm seeing on these yahoo groups I would bet getting off Lipitor was an important part of it.

You take care too,

Jim

TreacleBears@... wrote:

,

Is your Tai Chi helping?

I went to my orthopaedist this morning. With my Tai Chi practice and the stretching exercises at the gym I have been able to increase the mobility in my hip at least a little and I'm going to try cutting back on my anti-inflammatory drugs. I've been off Lipitor for 9 Months now.

Jim

Hello Jim

Yes, I think Tai Chi is helping. I just do a little at a time at the moment because I don't have much space indoors. But when the weather is warm I like to do it outside.

It would be good if you could cut back on the anti-inflamatories. I can't take them as they upset my stomach too much. But my arthritis has'nt flared up for a while now. I don't know if it is because I don't eat meat anymore, I guess I shall have to wait and see:)

Are you feeling a lot better since not taking Lipitor? I am still getting pains around the kidney area.

Take care

February 28, 2006

Given what I'm seeing on these yahoo groups I would bet getting off Lipitor was an important part of it. You take care too,Jim

Yes, I would too, Jim. But it sounds like all that you are doing suits you:)

February 28, 2006

I was on Lipitor a short time and was afraid of it due to what I read. Didn't really connect it to the aching in my calves and legs at the time for 6 months after, but it took a year to go away or more. I couldn't bare to go shopping anymore or do a lot of things, so I gained weight! That's really good for the ol heart problem and cholesterols, HDL, and all. I can say it's all gone and there is no way I'd go back on anything. I started taking CoQ on an irregular basis after that as the heart needs it and statins suppress it. Also now I'm taking some other supplements and really watching my diet for cholestrol and for my diabetes (double edged swore)...my LDH was 105, which I thought was great! My cardio wants it to be 75. I've been reading that too low of a cholesterol is NOT good either...I just need to lower my triglycerides and raise my poor HDL which has been around 19-22. I can't figure out why most Dr's don't test for C Reactive Protein and Homocysteine levels to show inflammation, which causes the darn problems in the arteries to start with!! I'm going to ask my Dr about it next visit. Lor

Hi Lor

You would think that the CRP and Honocysteine tests would be part of the cholesterol levels (done at the same time) and then if there were any inflammation it could be dealt with. But that would mean we would'nt be given statins and the drug companies and some doctors would'nt be happy with that!

We do need cholesterol as it's important to out cells so I don't think it's good to have it too low. I think as a rule , but not always, those of us with raised cholesterol levels are usually over weight, like I am, so the first line of action should be to lose any excess weight, not put us on statins. You are right, when statins cause problems, especially in our legs, we become less mobile and put weight on which defeats the object:)

February 28, 2006

Hi ,

Yes, you would think they would test for this stuff, but I'm not sure they are getting the information that we're getting on the internet and they don't seem to read a lot of books. Atleast my regular MD mentioned Niacin to me once...so I went out to buy the flushing kind, but I'm afraid to take it right now with the gamut of pain/symptoms/ I'm having after this bypass.

I know that too low of a cholesterol is no good either! It patches up any leaks in the arteries that are caused by inflammation. I was pleased with the 105..geeze..it used to be a lot higher.

Lor

Hi Lor

You would think that the CRP and Honocysteine tests would be part of the cholesterol levels (done at the same time) and then if there were any inflammation it could be dealt with. But that would mean we would'nt be given statins and the drug companies and some doctors would'nt be happy with that!

We do need cholesterol as it's important to out cells so I don't think it's good to have it too low. I think as a rule , but not always, those of us with raised cholesterol levels are usually over weight, like I am, so the first line of action should be to lose any excess weight, not put us on statins. You are right, when statins cause problems, especially in our legs, we become less mobile and put weight on which defeats the object:)

February 28, 2006

,

I feel a heck of a lot better than I did 9 Months ago. Whether

this is due to getting off Lipitor, Tai Chi practise, taking the

anti-inflammatory, or my work at the gym is anybody's guess. Given what

I'm seeing on these yahoo groups I would bet getting off Lipitor was an

important part of it.

You take care too,

Jim

TreacleBears@... wrote:

AOL Email

In a message dated 27/02/2006 23:45:35 GMT Standard Time,

jhtrice@... writes:

,

Is your Tai Chi helping?

I went to my orthopaedist this morning. With my Tai Chi practice

and the stretching exercises at the gym I have been able to increase

the mobility in my hip at least a little and I'm going to try cutting

back on my anti-inflammatory drugs. I've been off Lipitor for 9 Months

now.

Jim

Hello Jim

Yes, I think Tai Chi is

helping. I just do a little at a time at the moment because I don't

have much space indoors. But when the weather is warm I like to do it

outside.

It would be good if you

could cut back on the anti-inflamatories. I can't take them as they

upset my stomach too much. But my arthritis has'nt flared up for a

while now. I don't know if it is because I don't eat meat anymore, I

guess I shall have to wait and see:)

Are you feeling a lot

better since not taking Lipitor? I am still getting pains around the

kidney area.

Take care

March 1, 2006

Hi ,Yes, you would think they would test for this stuff, but I'm not sure they are getting the information that we're getting on the internet and they don't seem to read a lot of books. Atleast my regular MD mentioned Niacin to me once...so I went out to buy the flushing kind, but I'm afraid to take it right now with the gamut of pain/symptoms/ I'm having after this bypass. I know that too low of a cholesterol is no good either! It patches up any leaks in the arteries that are caused by inflammation. I was pleased with the 105..geeze..it used to be a lot higher. Lor

Hi Lor

You are bound to take time to recover from your bypass if you had it recently. I wish you a speedy recovery:)

I think we should be able to trust our doctors to keep up to date more than they do. I know they are busy but they have our lives in their hands.

I tried Niacin once and, goodness, did I flush:) It frightened me. But I think you can get some that does cause the flush? I have a book that talks about Niacin, Oat Bran and diet but I can't remember if it mentions inflammation. I'll have to go through it and find out.

I think we have to find that balance of diet and suppliments and weight and exercise and find out what suits us. I know I need to exercise more for certain:)

Take care

March 1, 2006

Lor, when my hubby had his heart attack and quad by pass they had him on niaspan it is not flush. We have now gotten off most meds and mostly vitamins and supplements. I know the doctors are not up to date on this stuff. It makes them mad as well when we question them about what we have learned and researched. Have a good evening and enjoy.Judy Re: More info re: Fat vs Low-FatHi ,Yes, you would think they would test for this stuff, but I'm not sure they are getting the information that we're getting on the internet and they don't seem to read a lot of books. Atleast my regular MD mentioned Niacin to me once...so I went out to buy the flushing kind, but I'm afraid to take it right now with the gamut of pain/symptoms/ I'm having after this bypass. I know that too low of a cholesterol is no good either! It patches up any leaks in the arteries that are caused by inflammation. I was pleased with the 105..geeze..it used to be a lot higher. LorHi Lor You are bound to take time to recover from your bypass if you had it recently. I wish you a speedy recovery:) I think we should be able to trust our doctors to keep up to date more than they do. I know they are busy but they have our lives in their hands. I tried Niacin once and, goodness, did I flush:) It frightened me. But I think you can get some that does cause the flush? I have a book that talks about Niacin, Oat Bran and diet but I can't remember if it mentions inflammation. I'll have to go through it and find out. I think we have to find that balance of diet and suppliments and weight and exercise and find out what suits us. I know I need to exercise more for certain:) Take care

March 1, 2006

> In a message dated 28/02/2006 19:32:47 GMT Standard Time,

> Shiree1000@... writes:

>

> Hi ,

>

> Yes, you would think they would test for this stuff, but I'm not sure they

> are getting the information that we're getting on the internet and they

> don't seem to read a lot of books. Atleast my regular MD mentioned Niacin

> to me once...so I went out to buy the flushing kind, but I'm afraid to

> take it right now with the gamut of pain/symptoms/ I'm having after this

> bypass.

>

> I know that too low of a cholesterol is no good either! It patches up any

> leaks in the arteries that are caused by inflammation. I was pleased with

> the 105..geeze..it used to be a lot higher.

>

> Lor

>

> Hi Lor

>

> You are bound to take time to recover from your bypass if you had it

> recently. I wish you a speedy recovery:)

>

> I think we should be able to trust our doctors to keep up to date more

> than they do. I know they are busy but they have our lives in their

> hands.

>

> I tried Niacin once and, goodness, did I flush:) It frightened me. But

> I think you can get some that does cause the flush? I have a book that

> talks about Niacin, Oat Bran and diet but I can't remember if it mentions

> inflammation. I'll have to go through it and find out.

>

> I think we have to find that balance of diet and suppliments and weight

> and exercise and find out what suits us. I know I need to exercise more

> for certain:)

>

> Take care

>

I almost never get a flush and I take 1.2 grams of niacin twice a day. I've

found two solutions that work for me. One, if I'm taking niacin as a powder,

which is most of the time, I take the rest of my supplements with tomato

juice followed by a glass of water, wait about 10 minutes until the liver is

backed up processing that stuff, and then take the niacin with tomato juice.

If I'm on the road and have niacin tablets with me, I take the other pills

with tomato juice and water just as before, and then I chew up the tablets

with almonds and then swallow with tomato juice. The reason for chewing up

the tablets is because if I don't, I can get a flush at some random time in

the next 4 hours which I want to avoid. Chewing niacin tablets with almonds

was the first way I discovered to avoid a flush most of the time.

--

Steve - dudescholar1@...

" We will either find a way, or make one. "

--Hannibal Barca

March 1, 2006

Steve,

Thanks for the information on how you found ways to deal with Niacin flushing. What is it about the "flushing" that bothers people so much?? Do you ever overly hot, sweat, and do you have tingling, irregular heart beats, or any other symptoms. Does it feel like anxiety? I'm curious, as I have some issues with anxiety. I have heard that the flushing Niacin is more beneficial than the time release or non-flushing. Other people say they've had good results with the other kind or a time release one calle Niaspan (Rx?).

Also, how did you learn about the tomato juice and what is its' significance in helping the flushing? Sorry so many questions.