Re: fibrocystic disease/size (was: Actual ratio...]

[Guest guest]

My fibrocystic breasts grow approximately two cup sizes each year and they've

been doing so for several years. They grew normally to size DD(E) but then they

started developing lumpy, painful tissue. I suspected for some time they may be

fibrocystic when a gynecologist decided they were. I've attempted to get

doctors to take the problem seriously. I have these alien life forms growing on

my chest and they're getting a couple inches bigger every year. I can't wear

most of the clothes in the stores because my chest is too big. I don't want to

have reduction surgery except as a last resort because I don't want to go

through the recovery and have to deal with the self-image problems that result

from the scarring.

No wonder they are not taking it very seriously! It's not a huge problem if

it's just a few lumps, but in my case they are growing out of control. No one

has ever made any recommendations to me for treating it. I avoid caffine (all

carbination as it makes my eyes water) and all of that and yet they will not

stop growing. I called a breast center but they told me to talk to a regular

doctor. I talked to a regular doctor and all she'd say was, " You need to avoid

caffine, " and when I said, " I never consume any caffine, " she did not have any

other suggestion or recommendation except she said maybe if I lost weight my

breasts would get smaller. She also asked if I'd gained a lot of weight as that

might cause them to grow, and I told her that since I managed to stop gaining

weight they had grown about 4 cup sizes. She shrugged and told me not to gain

weight because maybe when I gain weight I gain there first (despite the fact

that the breasts are the last place a woman gains weight

and the last place a woman loses weight). Besides, I doubt I'd lose fiberous

tissue; I'd just lose fat, and then my breasts would be 100% bad lumpy painful

tissue with no padding at all. My fibrocystic breast diease has caused me to

gain 8 or 9 cup sizes. And still doctors either do not know what to do or do

not care. I have never had cysts drained and I know where several of them are,

so I wonder if I ought to see about having some of them drained. That might

help.

Jane Meyerding wrote:

nah wrote:

>...I

>am quite a bit overweight but due to my severe case of fibrocystic breast

>disease, I don't seem very overweight, because my bust and hips are the

>exact same size, and I have a small waist, which creates the illusion of a

>much less overweight person.

I thought " fibrocystic breast disease " had been eliminated from

the medial lexicon. A couple (or a few) decades ago, I was told

I had it. More recently, doctors have told me that what used to

be called " fibrocystic breat diseaase " is now recognized as

simply one normal variant in the human female breast. It is a

variant that seems more prone to producing cysts that need to

be drained (all the females in my family have had cysts

drained), but it's not a " disease, " as I understand it.

It sounds like you have more trouble with it than I ever did,

though. My breasts used to be sore cyclically, but it wsn't

a big deal (for me). Of course, my breasts are considerably

smaller than yours, and no doubt that makes a difference.

People tend to perceive me as smaller than I am, I think. In

terms of clothing sizes, I am likely to be given " small " items

(e.g., when I was being given a uniform to wear in jail). I

then have to explain that I am " small " (in clothing terms)

on top but " medium " from the waist down. Apparently people

mostly judge size from the waist up, and since I have a small

waist and small breasts (and arms muscular enough that I don't

have hanging flesh), I am assumed to be " small " all the way

down. My hips and thighs are not " small, " however; they are

well muscled but definitely " medium " in size.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Doctors are morons and assholes- most of them- male or female, don't know

anything and don't give a damn.

You are going to have to do some research on your own to get the problem solved.

Look for stuff under web MD, and type in your condition in Google, and see what

you get- there may even be an online support list for those who have your

condition. You may even be able to find a doctor who deals with this in

particular.

Make sure they are real doctors- check your state licensing board if you find

one that you like.

The patient has to do their own healing anymore- I had to do that with my sleep

apnea. The stupid doctors couldn't figure it out, but I did.

That's also what I did with my AS. The damn shrinks just want to mess with my

mind, lie about diagnoses, and make shit up. They have no idea what they are

talking about. They just love to label people like me as just being a " jerk " or

having some vague personality disorder so that they can " make me go away " and

see me as less than them. Shrinks are far worse than doctors, to me.

Whatever you do, stay away from male doctors, especially in a case like this. I

know it sounds like your female doctor is a total idiot, but I find male doctors

to be much, much worse. They have huge egos and think they are gods. Besides,

I wouldn't want some male doctor looking at my breasts! ICK!

Jeanette

Re: fibrocystic disease/size (was: Actual

ratio...]

My fibrocystic breasts grow approximately two cup sizes each year and they've

been doing so for several years. They grew normally to size DD(E) but then they

started developing lumpy, painful tissue. I suspected for some time they may be

fibrocystic when a gynecologist decided they were. I've attempted to get

doctors to take the problem seriously. I have these alien life forms growing on

my chest and they're getting a couple inches bigger every year. I can't wear

most of the clothes in the stores because my chest is too big. I don't want to

have reduction surgery except as a last resort because I don't want to go

through the recovery and have to deal with the self-image problems that result

from the scarring.

No wonder they are not taking it very seriously! It's not a huge problem if

it's just a few lumps, but in my case they are growing out of control. No one

has ever made any recommendations to me for treating it. I avoid caffine (all

carbination as it makes my eyes water) and all of that and yet they will not

stop growing. I called a breast center but they told me to talk to a regular

doctor. I talked to a regular doctor and all she'd say was, " You need to avoid

caffine, " and when I said, " I never consume any caffine, " she did not have any

other suggestion or recommendation except she said maybe if I lost weight my

breasts would get smaller. She also asked if I'd gained a lot of weight as that

might cause them to grow, and I told her that since I managed to stop gaining

weight they had grown about 4 cup sizes. She shrugged and told me not to gain

weight because maybe when I gain weight I gain there first (despite the fact

that the breasts are the last place a woman gains weight

and the last place a woman loses weight). Besides, I doubt I'd lose fiberous

tissue; I'd just lose fat, and then my breasts would be 100% bad lumpy painful

tissue with no padding at all. My fibrocystic breast diease has caused me to

gain 8 or 9 cup sizes. And still doctors either do not know what to do or do

not care. I have never had cysts drained and I know where several of them are,

so I wonder if I ought to see about having some of them drained. That might

help.

Jane Meyerding wrote:

nah wrote:

>...I

>am quite a bit overweight but due to my severe case of fibrocystic breast

>disease, I don't seem very overweight, because my bust and hips are the

>exact same size, and I have a small waist, which creates the illusion of a

>much less overweight person.

I thought " fibrocystic breast disease " had been eliminated from

the medial lexicon. A couple (or a few) decades ago, I was told

I had it. More recently, doctors have told me that what used to

be called " fibrocystic breat diseaase " is now recognized as

simply one normal variant in the human female breast. It is a

variant that seems more prone to producing cysts that need to

be drained (all the females in my family have had cysts

drained), but it's not a " disease, " as I understand it.

It sounds like you have more trouble with it than I ever did,

though. My breasts used to be sore cyclically, but it wsn't

a big deal (for me). Of course, my breasts are considerably

smaller than yours, and no doubt that makes a difference.

People tend to perceive me as smaller than I am, I think. In

terms of clothing sizes, I am likely to be given " small " items

(e.g., when I was being given a uniform to wear in jail). I

then have to explain that I am " small " (in clothing terms)

on top but " medium " from the waist down. Apparently people

mostly judge size from the waist up, and since I have a small

waist and small breasts (and arms muscular enough that I don't

have hanging flesh), I am assumed to be " small " all the way

down. My hips and thighs are not " small, " however; they are

well muscled but definitely " medium " in size.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Jeanette wrote:

> Whatever you do, stay away from male doctors, especially in a case

> like this. I know it sounds like your female doctor is a total

> idiot, but I find male doctors to be much, much worse. They have

> huge egos and think they are gods.

How much would you be complaining, with your " feminist thinking, " if

someone wrote that about female doctors? I love it how so many

left-leaning folks espouse ideas of tolerance and diversity (and while I

have never seen you specifically say anything about that, it is a part

of the liberal ethos for sure), but they really only want tolerance of

their ideas and their specific minority du jour-- they want tolerance

when it benefits them, not when it would require _them_ to drop their

prejudices as they expect others to do. Not all of them, but a

significant proportion of them, for sure.

[Guest guest]

Klein danced around singing:

>I love it how so many

>left-leaning folks espouse ideas of tolerance and diversity (and while I

>have never seen you specifically say anything about that, it is a part

>of the liberal ethos for sure), but they really only want tolerance of

>their ideas and their specific minority du jour-- they want tolerance

>when it benefits them, not when it would require _them_ to drop their

>prejudices as they expect others to do.

No insult meant, but... Isn't the above an example of you doing what you're

accusing others of doing -- making prejudiced comments about others being

prejudiced -- in itself? The whole paragraph strikes me as particularly

weird given you seem to have the same hyperfocused " tolerate my ideas and my

minority " attitude that you're accusing leftists of having, only you focus

on a neurological group rather than an ethnic one.

As for my hyperliberal beliefs, at this point in my life I don't care what

gender somebody is, I dislike people in general and prefer cats anyway. *grin*

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

" Everybody ought to think for themselves... You need to extract

yourself from the turmoil of other people's interventions. "

-- Wynne

[Guest guest]

danced around singing:

> As for my hyperliberal beliefs, at this point in my life

> I don't care what gender somebody is, I dislike people

> in general and prefer cats anyway. *grin*

I'm also a leftist, and liberal, and a " yellow dog

Democrat " (meaning if the Democrats nominated an old

yellow dog for a particular post, I'd vote for it.) ;-)

" I love humanity, it's people I can't stand! "

................Linus Van Pelt................

[Guest guest]

DeGraf wrote:

> No insult meant, but... Isn't the above an example of you doing what

> you're accusing others of doing -- making prejudiced comments about

> others being prejudiced -- in itself?

I never claimed to be a liberal, for one thing; it is liberals who go on

and on about diversity and tolerance, then they show none of that toward

others. I have seen this many times. , the woman I last

dated, and have mentioned a few times lately, was one of these. She

talked of tolerance and acceptance, but when I told her that I do not

believe she saw Jesus Christ alive, she tore me a new one for being so

blind so as not to see spiritual matters as she did. In essence, she

wanted others to tolerate her odd religious views (and they were weird--

she made up her own version of Christianity and called it " real

Christianity, " and then she went on to denigrate all of the " regular "

Christians), but she did not want to have to tolerate anyone else's

beliefs-- namely, my agnostic beliefs.

Now, to bring it into context, Jeanette has declared large chunks of the

population as idiots... neurotypicals, Washingtonians, and many others,

and she has used other epithets against other groups... shrinks,

doctors, veterinarians... yet she claims to be liberal. I always

thought liberals were supposed to eschew prejudice, but she oozes it

from every pore.

Second, no, my comment about what some liberals do is not prejudiced at

all. It is a legitimate question to ask what Jeanette would say if she

saw a similar comment about female doctors, followed by a legitimate

observation that many liberals preach tolerance but show none. If I

were to write that someone should definitely avoid female doctors,

because they all think they're gods, would that be a comment that

Jeanette, presumably, and a whole lot of others (including me) would

take issue with, but comments denigrating males are just supposed to be

accepted.

It is not prejudiced to notice that this happens; we just got to see an

example less than an hour ago as I write this. That's another thing

that drives me nuts about a lot of the comments I get from the left. To

them, just noticing something about a group of people equals prejudice.

You attempted to equate Jeanette's declaration that male doctors should

be avoided (which is obvious sexism) with my comment that SOME people in

the left (I was very clear to note that not all of them do this) preach

tolerance and show none (which is not anything but a true statement).

It doesn't work; they're not even close.

> The whole paragraph strikes me

> as particularly weird given you seem to have the same

> hyperfocused " tolerate my ideas and my minority " attitude that you're

> accusing leftists of having, only you focus on a neurological group

> rather than an ethnic one.

It's not the same at all. I expect to be treated the same as any other

person; that is what I argue for. I argue that I have the same right to

be myself as any other person. I am very quick to point out the good

points about autism (because the negative ones are done to death by

others), and I am also quick to point out the shortcomings of NTs

(because the positive ones are all but taken for granted by others).

Fighting for equal rights is not the same as bigotry.

Let's examine the differences between the comments I called Jeanette on,

in this thread and in the past, and my focus on advocating tolerance of

my neurological group.

Declaring that " NTs are idiots, " as Jeanette has (and she went on to ask

something to the effect of " Oh, come on, do you really know any NTs that

are really smart? " )... that would be neurological bigotry; I do not say

things like that. In fact, earlier today, not even knowing this would

come up now, I posted that my high school's valedictorian was " decidedly

NT, " and I indicated that he was rather smart. I don't begrudge him

that; he achieved valedictory fair and square, with his NT mind. That

is a fact.

Now, to bring it into the context of this thread, I have not said that I

think that anyone should " definitely avoid NT doctors... they think

they're gods, " or anything remotely approaching that. I think a doctor

should be chosen on competence, not color, sex, neurological status,

religion, or whatever else people may use to choose a doctor. I have

never suggested that a person avoid an NT service person, whether it be

a doctor, dentist, shrink, veterinarian, auto mechanic, TV repairman,

waitress, grocery store cashier, or anything else, on the basis of their

neurologic configuration.

Now, if Jeanette had said that, as a female, she is simply more

comfortable with a female doctor, that would be a simple expression of

her personal choice as a consumer, and I can understand that, but that's

not how she put it. She did try to put it in the form of an opinion;

she did not state declaratively that male doctors should be avoided...

but it is still sexist to suggest, even as opinion, that male doctors

should be avoided for no other reason than their gender.

Jeanette says she is a feminist; feminists, as far as I know, wish to be

treated no different than males... and that is precisely what I am doing

in calling her on it. If I gave her a free pass to denigrate any group

because she is female, when I would not do so with any male that did the

same, I would be treating her differently than I would treat a male.

> As for my hyperliberal beliefs, at this point in my life I don't care

> what gender somebody is, I dislike people in general and prefer cats

> anyway. *grin*

That's good... from that, it would appear that you are not one of the

liberals I referred to in the message to which you replied. Jeanette

does, by her own words, care what gender someone is, if that person

happens to be a doctor. As I see it, if discrimination is wrong, it is

wrong; if it is not wrong, then she has nothing to complain about.

[Guest guest]

Klein danced around singing:

>You attempted to equate Jeanette's declaration that male doctors should

>be avoided (which is obvious sexism) with my comment that SOME people in

>the left (I was very clear to note that not all of them do this) preach

>tolerance and show none (which is not anything but a true statement).

Actually, no, I *didn't* attempt to do that. I wasn't thinking of what

Jeanette wrote at all; I was replying purely to your comment -- as

evidenced in that I only quoted you, not her.

[Guest guest]

I read that natural progesterone cream could help, but I have not been able to

find a doctor that would prescribe it for me. I took a book into my

gynecologist and showed her where it said that, and she said, " Well, that would

make it worse. This book must be old. " She grabbed it from me and looked at

the year. it was the previous year. " Well, the data is several years old by

the time it's published, anyway, " she said. The problem is synthetic

progesterone (progestin) would make the condition worse, but natural

progresterone (progesterone USP) in cream form helps the condition. I can never

find a good doctor. Mediocre is as best as I can find. That is why I have so

many undiagnosed, untreated medical problems. I had a good pediatrician, I had

2 good child psychologists/psychiatrists (one of each), and I have had 3 good

chiropractors...but I've never had a good MD except for my pediatrician, and he

was only good because he was a friend of my father's from high school so he

HAD to take my mother seriously, or so he though. I called the Indianapolis

Breast Center a few months ago because I had met another woman with my condition

in only ONE breast (one breast was a size C and the other was a size E) and she

said that is where she goes for treatment, but when I talked to them they said,

" Why do you want a mammogram? " I replied I didn't but was told they had other

services. So I was told to just see a regular doctor. *sigh* But they just

simply do not *treat* my condition. They tell you what to avoid and if it keeps

getting worse, it MUST be because you consume caffine! It's funny, I don't

think my breasts look that big at all, probably because I am used to them, but

then everyone else looks like they have such *small* breasts to me.

Jeanette wrote:Doctors are morons and assholes- most of

them- male or female, don't know anything and don't give a damn.

You are going to have to do some research on your own to get the problem solved.

Look for stuff under web MD, and type in your condition in Google, and see what

you get- there may even be an online support list for those who have your

condition. You may even be able to find a doctor who deals with this in

particular.

Make sure they are real doctors- check your state licensing board if you find

one that you like.

The patient has to do their own healing anymore- I had to do that with my sleep

apnea. The stupid doctors couldn't figure it out, but I did.

That's also what I did with my AS. The damn shrinks just want to mess with my

mind, lie about diagnoses, and make shit up. They have no idea what they are

talking about. They just love to label people like me as just being a " jerk " or

having some vague personality disorder so that they can " make me go away " and

see me as less than them. Shrinks are far worse than doctors, to me.

Whatever you do, stay away from male doctors, especially in a case like this. I

know it sounds like your female doctor is a total idiot, but I find male doctors

to be much, much worse. They have huge egos and think they are gods. Besides, I

wouldn't want some male doctor looking at my breasts! ICK!

[Guest guest]

Having experienced exactly what she is talking about...I know what she means.

There are good and bad doctors of both sexes, but male doctors are very bad for

such issues as breast problems. They get patronizing. They don't

understand...they can't empathicize about it, so they have no compassion about

breast problems. Of course, a female doctor that always wished she had huge

breasts will brush off the problem, " My breasts won't stop growing! " just as

quickly as a male doctor will, but it can be very uncomfortable to have a male

doctor examining you breasts. Ick! My first gynecologist was so incompetent

that he only examined ONE of my breasts and did such a lousy job that he did not

even NOTICE the painful cysts and lumps. But he didn't seem to NOTICE when I

was screaming in pain during the pap portion of the exam. His response? " This

doesn't hurt. " Well, how would HE know? Is he in my body to know if I hurt?

Does he have any idea about what it's like to go through this?

(No female gynecologists were available on my HMO in my area at that time so I

had to go to a male). My second male gynecologist just wanted to say it was

" all perfectly normal. " I went in with a specific problem, he took one look at

it, and said, " Well, that's perfectly normal for (demographic) " and when I told

him I was not a part of that demographic, he broadened the demographic and when

I told him I was STILL not part of it, he broadened it again, and he continuned

to do this until finally he said, " Well, it's just not all that uncommon. " No

matter how I complained of chronic problems with him, he insisted they were " all

perfectly normal. " Ha! No, I know these things are not normal, but at least

now I know why these exams are so painful: it's a sensory issue.

I've done better with the female I've gone to. She did not take the breast

disease too seriously but she DID find an ovarian cyst (which she decided to

ignore, and I know it's still there because I can still feel it).

Doctors, in general, have a tendency to be patronizing, to have huge egos and

think they are gods, but for many women, the experience is even worse when it's

a male doctor, if only because of the woman's perception.

Klein wrote:

Jeanette wrote:

> Whatever you do, stay away from male doctors, especially in a case

> like this. I know it sounds like your female doctor is a total

> idiot, but I find male doctors to be much, much worse. They have

> huge egos and think they are gods.

How much would you be complaining, with your " feminist thinking, " if

someone wrote that about female doctors? I love it how so many

left-leaning folks espouse ideas of tolerance and diversity (and while I

have never seen you specifically say anything about that, it is a part

of the liberal ethos for sure), but they really only want tolerance of

their ideas and their specific minority du jour-- they want tolerance

when it benefits them, not when it would require _them_ to drop their

prejudices as they expect others to do. Not all of them, but a

significant proportion of them, for sure.

[Guest guest]

Yes, , that's exactly what he's doing. It doesn't matter if I try and

clarify my statements- those are always ignored- by him, anyway.

So for the rest of you- one last time- you know by now that I meant that MOST

male doctors are like that- the overwhelming majority. This comes from my

experience and the experience of others. I've said it before- but I'm not going

to say it again.

I just get lazy and forget to qualify things, and since I have stated many times

over what I meant, it should be obvious by now. I know, it's a few extra words-

but my point that she should see a female doctor only (to save herself time and

trouble, since good male doctors are hard to find- especially with her illness)

would have been diluted.

I think it's funny that you- - can go on, and on, and on, and on about me

and how fucked up you think I am. You are so passionate about ripping me into

shreds and insisting that I'm a paranoid-schizophrenic-nut- psychopathic-

sexist- pseudo-liberal- etc- blah, blah, blah, blah...person it's really

hysterical to me.

Pretty soon you're going to have labeled me with all the labels, names, etc that

you can find. Go ahead. Make my day.

I really don't give a fuck about what you say about me- it's actually very funny

at this point. You've gotten yourself all tied up in a knot over me. I'm

almost flattered.

You're the only one on this list that is so passionate about me. It seems like

you have a " visceral " reaction to me.

Or maybe you *really* don't hate me- are you in LOVE? Maybe you are..... one

can never really know for sure... with as much as you are getting on my case,

at the slightest word I type on the list that you think confirms something you

think about me.....

Of course you will deny it if you are.....

You even regretted saying certain things to me in the " heat " of the debate. I

thought someone like you doesn't let the " heat " make you do things you take back

later, since you claim to be the epitome of logic perfected and emotional

self-control in all matters.

I can now predict when I am going to get a " Lecture " and rivers of

supposed evidence from you about how horrible I am- whatever label you are

trying to prove for that day. ONE word- that's all it takes- and you bounce off

from the list figuratively foaming at the mouth with it all. All I have to do

is state my opinion of something that you disagree with or interpret things I

say not as I meant them.

At any rate, I've decided to ignore your passionate vitriol about all the nasty

things you swear that I am, and actually do what you do when you don't think

something is valid ( since our EQ and SQ scores, our personality types, and even

IQ, etc are similar if not almost exactly the same..)

And act as if nothing was said at all.

Jeanette

Re: fibrocystic disease/size (was: Actual

ratio...]

Klein danced around singing:

>I love it how so many

>left-leaning folks espouse ideas of tolerance and diversity (and while I

>have never seen you specifically say anything about that, it is a part

>of the liberal ethos for sure), but they really only want tolerance of

>their ideas and their specific minority du jour-- they want tolerance

>when it benefits them, not when it would require _them_ to drop their

>prejudices as they expect others to do.

No insult meant, but... Isn't the above an example of you doing what you're

accusing others of doing -- making prejudiced comments about others being

prejudiced -- in itself? The whole paragraph strikes me as particularly

weird given you seem to have the same hyperfocused " tolerate my ideas and my

minority " attitude that you're accusing leftists of having, only you focus

on a neurological group rather than an ethnic one.

As for my hyperliberal beliefs, at this point in my life I don't care what

gender somebody is, I dislike people in general and prefer cats anyway.

*grin*

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

" Everybody ought to think for themselves... You need to extract

yourself from the turmoil of other people's interventions. "

-- Wynne

[Guest guest]

> Yes, , that's exactly what he's doing.

*********

Says jeanette, hiding behind , as she likes to not respond to

s posts direct, as he's right but Jeanette cant admit that and

still keep her personality in tact,

*********

It doesn't matter if I try and clarify my statements- those are

always ignored- by him, anyway.

*********

Would this be an incorrect statement? or am i infact a dumb ass that

has been reading his posts in english, when he wrote them in french.

*********

>

> So for the rest of you- one last time- you know by now that I meant

that MOST male doctors are like that

*********

Which would still be a very sexist comment, not to mention a

generalization, and WASNT what you said. Note to self; if i dont mean

what i say, thats ok.

*********

- the overwhelming majority. This comes from my experience and the

experience of others. I've said it before- but I'm not going to say

it again.

>

> I just get lazy and forget to qualify things, and since I have

stated many times over what I meant, it should be obvious by now.

*********

Whats obvious is your posts are fabrications of another reality. when

im in a good mood.

*********

I know, it's a few extra words- but my point that she should see a

female doctor only (to save herself time and trouble, since good male

doctors are hard to find-

**********

Sexist comment above

**********

especially with her illness) would have been diluted.

**********

Thats it, say what you mean........... the second time....... and

sound *less* sexist by diluting that *same* sexism (ms equal rights,

feminist nonsense), though as you quite bravely point out, one of

your sisters (the doctor woman) is useless anyway, so perhaps she

should stay away from doctors; because all doctors are rubbish, right?

**********

>

> I think it's funny that you- - can go on, and on, and on, and

on about me and how fucked up you think I am.

**********

You are. You make my lips curl.

**********

You are so passionate about ripping me into shreds and insisting

that I'm a paranoid-schizophrenic-nut- psychopathic- sexist- pseudo-

liberal-

**********

He points out facts, and you inject the passion. Yet again, ill say;

you dont respond direct to his points, just rubbish him in

generalizations, which is the best you can do.

**********

etc- blah, blah, blah, blah...person it's really hysterical to me.

**********

If you didnt laugh you'd cry, right?

**********

>

> Pretty soon you're going to have labeled me with all the labels,

names, etc that you can find. Go ahead. Make my day.

>

> I really don't give a fuck about what you say about me-

*********

Naturally

*********

it's actually very funny at this point. You've gotten yourself all

tied up in a knot over me. I'm almost flattered.

*********

He's not " in a knot " , he's logical, and saying things some

wouldnt; " dont feed the wildlife " is a phrase many people swear

by......

*********

>

> You're the only one on this list that is so passionate about me.

*********

He's the one who has the enormous reserves of energy and logic to

penetrate your verbal diahrea, assertain your meaning, and

regurgitate it in a more reality friendly way. I seem to remember he

isnt the only one who has pointed out your ridiculous nature, but the

rest of us are safe in the knowledge ms jeanette doesnt listen to us

anymore, so mostly we read your posts, then wish we hadnt.

*********

It seems like you have a " visceral " reaction to me.

>

> Or maybe you *really* don't hate me- are you in LOVE? Maybe you

are..... one can never really know for sure... with as much as you

are getting on my case, at the slightest word I type on the list that

you think confirms something you think about me.....

>

> Of course you will deny it if you are.....

>

> You even regretted saying certain things to me in the " heat " of the

debate. I thought someone like you doesn't let the " heat " make you

do things you take back later, since you claim to be the epitome of

logic perfected and emotional self-control in all matters.

>

> I can now predict when I am going to get a " Lecture " and

rivers of supposed evidence from you about how horrible I am-

whatever label you are trying to prove for that day. ONE word-

that's all it takes- and you bounce off from the list figuratively

foaming at the mouth with it all. All I have to do is state my

opinion of something that you disagree with or interpret things I say

not as I meant them.

>

> At any rate, I've decided to ignore your passionate vitriol about

all the nasty things you swear that I am, and actually do what you do

when you don't think something is valid ( since our EQ and SQ scores,

our personality types, and even IQ, etc are similar if not almost

exactly the same..)

>

> And act as if nothing was said at all.

************

Oh, so thats somehow different than you are with everybody you find

dangerous to your beliefs? lol, in what way! oh no; silly question,

ms Jeannette, wont be reading this, of course, she doesnt listen to

the infidels!!

************

>

> Jeanette

************

And Gareth, possibly in love withe the fair maiden Jeanette (?)

P.s, i was going to respond to the last half too, but am to bemused.

[Guest guest]

Does it count as foreplay when more than two are involved?!

But seriously, folks, *my own experience* has revealed that women doctors tend

to be less arrogant and more empathetic than men doctors.

Colin.

(Who doesn't particularly like or trust doctors)

Quoting gareth :

>

> > Yes, , that's exactly what he's doing.

> *********

>

> Says jeanette, hiding behind , as she likes to not respond to

> s posts direct, as he's right but Jeanette cant admit that and

> still keep her personality in tact,

> *********

>

>

> It doesn't matter if I try and clarify my statements- those are

> always ignored- by him, anyway.

>

> *********

> Would this be an incorrect statement? or am i infact a dumb ass that

> has been reading his posts in english, when he wrote them in french.

> *********

> >

> > So for the rest of you- one last time- you know by now that I meant

> that MOST male doctors are like that

>

> *********

> Which would still be a very sexist comment, not to mention a

> generalization, and WASNT what you said. Note to self; if i dont mean

> what i say, thats ok.

> *********

>

> - the overwhelming majority. This comes from my experience and the

> experience of others. I've said it before- but I'm not going to say

> it again.

> >

> > I just get lazy and forget to qualify things, and since I have

> stated many times over what I meant, it should be obvious by now.

>

> *********

> Whats obvious is your posts are fabrications of another reality. when

> im in a good mood.

> *********

>

> I know, it's a few extra words- but my point that she should see a

> female doctor only (to save herself time and trouble, since good male

> doctors are hard to find-

>

> **********

> Sexist comment above

> **********

> especially with her illness) would have been diluted.

> **********

> Thats it, say what you mean........... the second time....... and

> sound *less* sexist by diluting that *same* sexism (ms equal rights,

> feminist nonsense), though as you quite bravely point out, one of

> your sisters (the doctor woman) is useless anyway, so perhaps she

> should stay away from doctors; because all doctors are rubbish, right?

> **********

>

> >

> > I think it's funny that you- - can go on, and on, and on, and

> on about me and how fucked up you think I am.

> **********

> You are. You make my lips curl.

> **********

>

> You are so passionate about ripping me into shreds and insisting

> that I'm a paranoid-schizophrenic-nut- psychopathic- sexist- pseudo-

> liberal-

> **********

> He points out facts, and you inject the passion. Yet again, ill say;

> you dont respond direct to his points, just rubbish him in

> generalizations, which is the best you can do.

> **********

>

>

> etc- blah, blah, blah, blah...person it's really hysterical to me.

>

> **********

> If you didnt laugh you'd cry, right?

> **********

> >

> > Pretty soon you're going to have labeled me with all the labels,

> names, etc that you can find. Go ahead. Make my day.

> >

> > I really don't give a fuck about what you say about me-

> *********

> Naturally

> *********

> it's actually very funny at this point. You've gotten yourself all

> tied up in a knot over me. I'm almost flattered.

> *********

> He's not " in a knot " , he's logical, and saying things some

> wouldnt; " dont feed the wildlife " is a phrase many people swear

> by......

> *********

> >

> > You're the only one on this list that is so passionate about me.

> *********

> He's the one who has the enormous reserves of energy and logic to

> penetrate your verbal diahrea, assertain your meaning, and

> regurgitate it in a more reality friendly way. I seem to remember he

> isnt the only one who has pointed out your ridiculous nature, but the

> rest of us are safe in the knowledge ms jeanette doesnt listen to us

> anymore, so mostly we read your posts, then wish we hadnt.

> *********

>

>

> It seems like you have a " visceral " reaction to me.

> >

> > Or maybe you *really* don't hate me- are you in LOVE? Maybe you

> are..... one can never really know for sure... with as much as you

> are getting on my case, at the slightest word I type on the list that

> you think confirms something you think about me.....

> >

> > Of course you will deny it if you are.....

> >

> > You even regretted saying certain things to me in the " heat " of the

> debate. I thought someone like you doesn't let the " heat " make you

> do things you take back later, since you claim to be the epitome of

> logic perfected and emotional self-control in all matters.

> >

> > I can now predict when I am going to get a " Lecture " and

> rivers of supposed evidence from you about how horrible I am-

> whatever label you are trying to prove for that day. ONE word-

> that's all it takes- and you bounce off from the list figuratively

> foaming at the mouth with it all. All I have to do is state my

> opinion of something that you disagree with or interpret things I say

> not as I meant them.

> >

> > At any rate, I've decided to ignore your passionate vitriol about

> all the nasty things you swear that I am, and actually do what you do

> when you don't think something is valid ( since our EQ and SQ scores,

> our personality types, and even IQ, etc are similar if not almost

> exactly the same..)

> >

> > And act as if nothing was said at all.

>

> ************

> Oh, so thats somehow different than you are with everybody you find

> dangerous to your beliefs? lol, in what way! oh no; silly question,

> ms Jeannette, wont be reading this, of course, she doesnt listen to

> the infidels!!

> ************

> >

> > Jeanette

>

> ************

> And Gareth, possibly in love withe the fair maiden Jeanette (?)

>

> P.s, i was going to respond to the last half too, but am to bemused.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Pharmaceutical companies don't use natural progesterone because God

owns the patent on it, and they can't make money selling it. I buy

it in drugstores, over the counter. Make sure it says " USP

Progesterone " on the label and some of them specify carefully the

dosage per 1/4 teaspoon of cream...some pump pre measured doses, some

don't.

Sometimes the labels will say " yam cream " but the Yam is not what

does the trick, it is the 'usp progesterone'.

Really works like oral birth control pills (not recommended for birth

control!) in the way the progesterone works for me...

Camille

-- In AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse , nah

<anonoymah@s...> wrote:

> I read that natural progesterone cream could help, but I have not

been able to find a doctor that would prescribe it for me. I took a

book into my gynecologist and showed her where it said that, and she

said, " Well, that would make it worse. This book must be old. " She

grabbed it from me and looked at the year. it was the previous

year. " Well, the data is several years old by the time it's

published, anyway, " she said. The problem is synthetic progesterone

(progestin) would make the condition worse, but natural progresterone

(progesterone USP) in cream form helps the condition. I can never

find a good doctor. Mediocre is as best as I can find. That is why

I have so many undiagnosed, untreated medical problems. I had a good

pediatrician, I had 2 good child psychologists/psychiatrists (one of

each), and I have had 3 good chiropractors...but I've never had a

good MD except for my pediatrician, and he was only good because he

was a friend of my father's from high school so he

> HAD to take my mother seriously, or so he though. I called the

Indianapolis Breast Center a few months ago because I had met another

woman with my condition in only ONE breast (one breast was a size C

and the other was a size E) and she said that is where she goes for

treatment, but when I talked to them they said, " Why do you want a

mammogram? " I replied I didn't but was told they had other

services. So I was told to just see a regular doctor. *sigh* But

they just simply do not *treat* my condition. They tell you what to

avoid and if it keeps getting worse, it MUST be because you consume

caffine! It's funny, I don't think my breasts look that big at all,

probably because I am used to them, but then everyone else looks like

they have such *small* breasts to me.

>

> Jeanette <szo701@m...> wrote:Doctors are morons and assholes- most

of them- male or female, don't know anything and don't give a damn.

>

> You are going to have to do some research on your own to get the

problem solved.

>

> Look for stuff under web MD, and type in your condition in Google,

and see what you get- there may even be an online support list for

those who have your condition. You may even be able to find a doctor

who deals with this in particular.

>

> Make sure they are real doctors- check your state licensing board

if you find one that you like.

>

> The patient has to do their own healing anymore- I had to do that

with my sleep apnea. The stupid doctors couldn't figure it out, but I

did.

>

> That's also what I did with my AS. The damn shrinks just want to

mess with my mind, lie about diagnoses, and make shit up. They have

no idea what they are talking about. They just love to label people

like me as just being a " jerk " or having some vague personality

disorder so that they can " make me go away " and see me as less than

them. Shrinks are far worse than doctors, to me.

>

> Whatever you do, stay away from male doctors, especially in a case

like this. I know it sounds like your female doctor is a total idiot,

but I find male doctors to be much, much worse. They have huge egos

and think they are gods. Besides, I wouldn't want some male doctor

looking at my breasts! ICK!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I detest going to a doctor for any reason, I am horrified by the idea

that they want to see me naked, or even parts of me naked. I think

my idea of where my body is and how vulnerable it is and how private

it is is greatly amplified. Either that or I am a tremendous prude.

I would never see a doctor again if I could manage it. I don't have

insurance so I am managing that pretty easily right now.

Camille

[Guest guest]

from my understanding the dosage in the OTC progesterone USP cream are not

regulared but if you get the prescription for it a compounding pharmacy will

make it up so it is covered by insurance and it will be an exact amount so you

can be sure you are not getting too much or too little. When tested, OTC creams

tend to not contain the amount they claim to. Progesterone when used topically

on the breasts can eliminate or at least bring under control fibrocystic breast

disease. When used topically on the lower abdomin it can help with menstrual

cramps. When used topically on the vulva it strengthens the tissue and is about

as effective as birth control pills. If I were a doctor or nurse practioner I

would definately run clinical trials on the stuff (I realize I'd not get paid

for it but progestin, the synthetic, is bad stuff, whereas progesterone is good

for you!) Some natural estrogen used topically on the vulva can also help with

thinning skin in that area.

I perseverated on female sexual problems for over a year and a half before

finally finding the source of my particular sexual probelms are sensory issues.

I got into gynecological issues in general and deterimined I likely have a

deficiency in both progesterone and testosterone. But you make a good

point...even an unknown quantity of progesterone from an OTC yam cream could

help. I ought to stop being so concerned with it and just get some.

Camille wrote:

Hi,

Pharmaceutical companies don't use natural progesterone because God

owns the patent on it, and they can't make money selling it. I buy

it in drugstores, over the counter. Make sure it says " USP

Progesterone " on the label and some of them specify carefully the

dosage per 1/4 teaspoon of cream...some pump pre measured doses, some

don't.

Sometimes the labels will say " yam cream " but the Yam is not what

does the trick, it is the 'usp progesterone'.

Really works like oral birth control pills (not recommended for birth

control!) in the way the progesterone works for me...

Camille

[Guest guest]

I not only hate going to the doctor, but I have been treated badly by almost

every doctor I've been to. Every time I go to the doctor by myself, bad things

happen. I either am not taken seriously...I have been made fun of by doctors to

their nurses, my concerns have been brushed off, I've not been given medication

when I had a serious infection...I just keep trying because my health is lousy

and if I can just find the right doctor, maybe I'll be taken seriously and I can

find things to help my various problems.

Camille wrote:Hi,

I detest going to a doctor for any reason, I am horrified by the idea

that they want to see me naked, or even parts of me naked. I think

my idea of where my body is and how vulnerable it is and how private

it is is greatly amplified. Either that or I am a tremendous prude.

I would never see a doctor again if I could manage it. I don't have

insurance so I am managing that pretty easily right now.

Camille

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm sure the the OTC creams are inferior in some way to a real

prescribed one, actually, I didn't realize anyone would prescribe

them. All I can say, is that I had to go off prescription pills

(which I take for the balancing effect on my hormones) and that the

creams that I use work as well as the pills (no doubt better for me).

I don't think you could do any serious damage by using even twice as

much as they say to use, and using too little is not going to hurt

any. To some extent, I think you get what you pay for, but maybe you

have already got all the brands scoped out.

I believe that estrogen get's converted to testosterone under normal

conditions in a woman's body, and under abnormal conditions a woman

can get a big overdose of it, but again, odds are you know alot about

that already. :-)

Camille

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I hope you can take someone with you to the doctor from now on. I

think that 2 people usually do get taken more seriously and at least

the second one can make sure that questions are asked properly and

that answers are given properly by the doctors and nurses. AND you

have a witness to the abuse if you need it.

Camille

Hi,

>

> I detest going to a doctor for any reason, I am horrified by the

idea

> that they want to see me naked, or even parts of me naked. I think

> my idea of where my body is and how vulnerable it is and how

private

> it is is greatly amplified. Either that or I am a tremendous prude.

>

> I would never see a doctor again if I could manage it. I don't have

> insurance so I am managing that pretty easily right now.

>

> Camille

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, estrogens tend to bind up testosterone so that it can't be used by the

body. I had my testosterone levels tested and they were barely borderline

normal...not low enough for the doctor to take seriously, but low enough to

cause problems. Of course some women have been told their level was normal when

their level was " 0.0 " or " no measurable level. " I know; I've talked to such

people online. Women need to moderate their level of testosterone if they are

taking it, because it is very easy to overdose since such a small amount is

needed, and side-effects are typically permanant (such as increaed facial or

body hair and deepened voice, which are severe and don't happen unless there's

been a substancial overdose). Doctors don't normally prescribe it for

pre-menopausal women because more young women don't have testosterone

deficiencies (although a small percent...maybe 2-5%...will have this problem

while young) and also because women taking testosterone can have children with

birth defects if they get pregnant while taking testosterone. Testosterone

should not be taken orally and prescriptions such as Estratest should be avoided

because, first of all, the dose of testosterone is too high, secondly, the

estrogen counteracts the testosterone and can actually make the level even

lower, and third, pre-menopausal women do not need all that extra estrogen.

I know way too much. In fact I have a web page about testosterone. I can post

the URL if you're interested (though you've not indiciated an interest so maybe

I'm mostly just talking to myself).

Progesterone is good for you and it helps prevent cancer so it's hard to really

overdose on it. The worry I have is of having a much lower dose than needed.

It does not make sense that you can buy it OTC but need a prescription to be

certain you're getting the correct amount.

I have not researched OTC brands but I ought to. OTC stuff would be better than

nothing, and since doctors brush me off and I can't write my own

prescriptions...I'd be smarter to just go with what is available. At least it

would be *some* treatment.

Camille wrote:

Hi,

I'm sure the the OTC creams are inferior in some way to a real

prescribed one, actually, I didn't realize anyone would prescribe

them. All I can say, is that I had to go off prescription pills

(which I take for the balancing effect on my hormones) and that the

creams that I use work as well as the pills (no doubt better for me).

I don't think you could do any serious damage by using even twice as

much as they say to use, and using too little is not going to hurt

any. To some extent, I think you get what you pay for, but maybe you

have already got all the brands scoped out.

I believe that estrogen get's converted to testosterone under normal

conditions in a woman's body, and under abnormal conditions a woman

can get a big overdose of it, but again, odds are you know alot about

that already. :-)

Camille

[Guest guest]

Yes, that would be ideal and a good idea. My mom has offered to go with me, but

since she lives 2 1/2 hours away I've declined. Besides she once actually asked

a doctor if my stomach problems might be somatic! I was very upset at her.

It's so hard to get taken seriously, and then she jeopardizes my treatment with

a question like *that*? How could she? So probably not my mom.

I am also usually so busy trying to hbe social that I forget half the reasons I

went to the doctor in the first place. I've yet to talk to my current doctor

(I've been seeing her a few months) about progesterone...I need to. I'm sure

I've forgotten other things as well. I finally " came out " to her about my

autism at our last appointment, so hopefully now I can quit freaking out that

she's going to come in and catch me rocking while I'm waiting!

Camille wrote:

Hi,

I hope you can take someone with you to the doctor from now on. I

think that 2 people usually do get taken more seriously and at least

the second one can make sure that questions are asked properly and

that answers are given properly by the doctors and nurses. AND you

have a witness to the abuse if you need it.

Camille

[Guest guest]

nah danced around singing:

>I am also usually so busy trying to hbe social that I forget half the

>reasons I went to the doctor in the first place.

I have that problem too... What helped me was to make a short list ahead of

time, and make sure I have it out when the doctor comes into the

room. Then I can start conversation with " I have a list of things I'd like

to discuss, so that I don't forget " and make the paper obviously

visible. That also helps me avoid being too intimidated/embarrassed to ask

about certain things once I'm there, as the doctor can clearly see the

topic on the piece of paper. They seem to appreciate having everything

organized and laid out for them, as well.

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

[Guest guest]

I have tried that technique but I have invariably forgotten the paper, or

concluded that the doctor's personality would not be condusive to this method

because s/he was already patronizing enough without me implying I had a poor

enough memory to need a list (which would not be the case at all if going to the

doctor were not such a social event).

DeGraf wrote:nah danced around singing:

>I am also usually so busy trying to hbe social that I forget half the

>reasons I went to the doctor in the first place.

I have that problem too... What helped me was to make a short list ahead of

time, and make sure I have it out when the doctor comes into the

room. Then I can start conversation with " I have a list of things I'd like

to discuss, so that I don't forget " and make the paper obviously

visible. That also helps me avoid being too intimidated/embarrassed to ask

about certain things once I'm there, as the doctor can clearly see the

topic on the piece of paper. They seem to appreciate having everything

organized and laid out for them, as well.

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy