RE: FW: Laser application...

[Guest guest]

I still think that we are not yet taking

into account the frequency and wavelength of the laser we are using. The

tissues will absorb some wavelengths better than others. You can’t

just force it by trying to put more energy into the tissue.

All I can tell you is that working on one

of my patients for several months with my 250mw laser that I bought 2 years ago

helped some. When I tried the laser I am borrowing with 12x5mw in a

cluster head with 4 wavelengths and 7 frequencies the dog was

dramatically better after one treatment.

What do we know about the frequencies and

wavelengths of the lasers we are using? Could we be doing more with less

power if we had the right formula?

________________________

www.evelynvet.com

evelynvet@...

From:

VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of Dr. Laurie McCauley

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006

3:22 PM

To: VetRehab

Subject: FW: Laser

application...

This came to me since I forwarded Tara's

message on. Thought I would pass

it on.

Laurie

Dear Dr ,

A friend referred your 'lost in laser therapy' enquiry to me. I'm not a

member of the rehab group and am unable to post a response online, so I hope

you don't mind me responding directly to you.

Regarding your first question about laser therapy books, the best I can

recommend is 'The Laser Therapy Handbook' by Jan Tuner & Lars Hode ($65).

It

is not a step-by-step guide, but it does provide a great deal of information

to readers interested in obtaining a deeper understanding of this modality.

Unfortunately there are currently no veterinary/rehab protocol guides or

user-oriented books available that are worth purchasing.

Regarding cluster applicators, it is necessary to know both the power of

each emitter in the cluster, and the total power of the cluster. The former

will allow you to calculate the 'dose-per-point' of each emitter, and the

latter the total body dose.

Knowledge of the power/power density per beam is especially important for

laser clusters, but less-so for LED clusters. For LED clusters it is often

sufficient to know the total power of the cluster and the area of the

applicator.

An LED cluster may have 50+ emitters very close together. In such an

applicator the beams from each LED are more likely to overlap, thus creating

a more homogeneous distribution of the optical output power over the surface

area covered by the applicator (and, thus, LED clusters generally more

applicable to the treatment of superficial conditions and open wounds, where

the power density of the incident beam is most important).

Most laser clusters, however, have a relatively low number of emitters

(4-to-5) spread over a relatively large area (5-to-10cm2), so from the

perspective of the tissues being treated you are effectively applying 4-to-5

single-laser applicators concurrently.

For such a laser cluster the average power density - total power over total

area - is meaningless. Attached is an email response to Dr Curtis Turchin

that discusses in greater depth the problem of 'average' power density as it

applies to laser clusters. It refers to the Apollo medical laser, which is

identical in output to SpectraVET's 4x500mW cluster.

In short, when calculating treatment times for a laser cluster you should

use the formula [seconds = Joules / Watts] for

each laser emitter.

I hope I've been able to help clear this up.

If you would like any further information and/or assistance regarding laser

therapy and/or laser equipment, please feel free to contact me directly at

any time.

You may also wish to visit my Australian company's website at

<http://www.spectramedics.com>

and browse through the 'Resources' section.

Kind regards,

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SpectraVET Therapeutic Lasers

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Managing Director

CELL:

SpectraVET Inc

EMAIL: <spectraspectravet>

WWW: <http://www.spectravet.com>

<http://www.spectramedics.com>

TEL:

FAX:

POST: 2460 Cortland Street

Waynesboro, VA 22980

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY. The information contained in this communication

is for the named recipient. It may contain confidential, privileged or

copyright material. If you receive this email in error please delete it and

any attachments and notify the sender immediately by reply email. If you are

not the named recipient, any use, reading, copying, distributing or

disclosure of the information in this email is strictly prohibited.

Any views expressed in this email are not necessarily those of SpectraVET

Inc. SpectraVET does not warrant that this email is free from viruses or

other defects. SpectraVET is not liable for loss, damage or other

consequences that may arise from opening or using this email or any

attachments.

If you no longer wish to receive messages from SpectraVET Inc, please reply

to this message with 'UNSUBSCRIBE' written in the subject line.

>From: " Dr. Laurie McCauley " <DrMcTops-vet-rehab>

>Reply-To: VetRehab

>To: <VetRehab >

>Subject: FW: Laser stuff

>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:36:26 -0600

>

>

>Hey All,

>

>Do you have any recommendations on text books covering laser therapy, I

>feel

>

>like I just got my feet wet at CRI and do not fully understand how to use

>for therapy purposes ie. where to apply applicator, over what range of

>tissue, how to treat joints? I'm interested in purchasing a unit and it's

>been hard comparing all of the models! Quick question regarding cluster

>applicators...when you are figuring out your treamtent time based on

>J=Wxsec, are you calculating based on each diode mW or on the total power

>from the entire cluster? Is the advantage of a cluster applicator just in

>regards to more surface area treated at once and therefore, less time in

>general? Any recommendations on units?

>Thanks so much in advance,

>

>Sincererly,

>Lost in laser therapy...!

>Tara , DVM

>

[Guest guest]

(and others),What wavelengths and frequencies ARE you using?  Higher wavelengths target deeper tissues (red, infrared, 800nm+) while lower wavelengths (ultraviolet, blue, 600nm) target more superficial tissues.  It makes sense that a combination of wavelengths would be more beneficial, especially with injuries/disorders that involve more than one type of tissue.  For example, a TPLO:  lower wavelengths are treating the skin incision and superficial swelling while higher wavelengths are treating into the muscle, tendon, bone, cartilage, and ligament.  The frequencies are basically the method by which we get a pulsed light rather than continuous, so they reduce the power overall.  It is theorized that specific frequencies are better for acute vs. chronic conditions.  And if we're using a cluster vs. a probe are we dissipating some of the energy in the fur (in the non-clipped dog) before we even get to the tissue of interest?More questions than answers, I'm afraid.Amie Amie Lamoreaux Hesbach, MSPT, CCRPPresident, Animal Physical Therapy Special Interest Group, Orthopaedic Section, American Physical Therapy Associationwww.orthopt.orgInstructor, The Canine Rehabilitation InstituteWellington, Florida USAwww.caninerehabinstitute.comCEO, For Paws Rehabilitation, LLCPort Republic, land USAwww.forpawsrehabilitation.comManager, Physical Rehabilitation, The Mid-Atlantic Animal Specialty Hospital, LLCHuntingtown, land USAwww.vetmash.com I still think that we are not yet taking into account the frequency and wavelength of the laser we are using.  The tissues will absorb some wavelengths better than others.  You can’t just force it by trying to put more energy into the tissue.  All I can tell you is that working on one of my patients for several months with my 250mw laser that I bought 2 years ago helped some.  When I tried the laser I am borrowing with 12x5mw in a cluster head with 4 wavelengths and 7 frequencies the dog was dramatically  better after one treatment. What do we know about the frequencies and wavelengths of the lasers we are using?  Could we be doing more with less power if we had the right formula?   ________________________www.evelynvet.comevelynvetcomcast (DOT) net From: VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of Dr. Laurie McCauleySent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:22 PMTo: VetRehab Subject: FW: Laser application... This came to me since I forwarded Tara's message on. Thought I would passit on.LaurieDear Dr ,A friend referred your 'lost in laser therapy' enquiry to me. I'm not amember of the rehab group and am unable to post a response online, so I hopeyou don't mind me responding directly to you.Regarding your first question about laser therapy books, the best I canrecommend is 'The Laser Therapy Handbook' by Jan Tuner & Lars Hode ($65). Itis not a step-by-step guide, but it does provide a great deal of informationto readers interested in obtaining a deeper understanding of this modality.Unfortunately there are currently no veterinary/rehab protocol guides oruser-oriented books available that are worth purchasing.Regarding cluster applicators, it is necessary to know both the power ofeach emitter in the cluster, and the total power of the cluster. The formerwill allow you to calculate the 'dose-per-point' of each emitter, and thelatter the total body dose.Knowledge of the power/power density per beam is especially important forlaser clusters, but less-so for LED clusters. For LED clusters it is oftensufficient to know the total power of the cluster and the area of theapplicator.An LED cluster may have 50+ emitters very close together. In such anapplicator the beams from each LED are more likely to overlap, thus creatinga more homogeneous distribution of the optical output power over the surfacearea covered by the applicator (and, thus, LED clusters generally moreapplicable to the treatment of superficial conditions and open wounds, wherethe power density of the incident beam is most important).Most laser clusters, however, have a relatively low number of emitters(4-to-5) spread over a relatively large area (5-to-10cm2), so from theperspective of the tissues being treated you are effectively applying 4-to-5single-laser applicators concurrently.For such a laser cluster the average power density - total power over totalarea - is meaningless. Attached is an email response to Dr Curtis Turchinthat discusses in greater depth the problem of 'average' power density as itapplies to laser clusters. It refers to the Apollo medical laser, which isidentical in output to SpectraVET's 4x500mW cluster.In short, when calculating treatment times for a laser cluster you shoulduse the formula [seconds = Joules / Watts] for each laser emitter.I hope I've been able to help clear this up.If you would like any further information and/or assistance regarding lasertherapy and/or laser equipment, please feel free to contact me directly atany time.You may also wish to visit my Australian company's website at<http://www.spectramedics.com> and browse through the 'Resources' section.Kind regards,- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -SpectraVET Therapeutic Lasers- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Managing DirectorCELL: SpectraVET IncEMAIL: <spectraspectravet>WWW: <http://www.spectravet.com><http://www.spectramedics.com>TEL: FAX: POST: 2460 Cortland StreetWaynesboro, VA 22980- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY. The information contained in this communicationis for the named recipient. It may contain confidential, privileged orcopyright material. If you receive this email in error please delete it andany attachments and notify the sender immediately by reply email. If you arenot the named recipient, any use, reading, copying, distributing ordisclosure of the information in this email is strictly prohibited.Any views expressed in this email are not necessarily those of SpectraVETInc. SpectraVET does not warrant that this email is free from viruses orother defects. SpectraVET is not liable for loss, damage or otherconsequences that may arise from opening or using this email or anyattachments.If you no longer wish to receive messages from SpectraVET Inc, please replyto this message with 'UNSUBSCRIBE' written in the subject line.>From: "Dr. Laurie McCauley" <DrMcTops-vet-rehab>>Reply-To: VetRehab >To: <VetRehab >>Subject: FW: Laser stuff>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:36:26 -0600>>>Hey All,>>Do you have any recommendations on text books covering laser therapy, I>feel>>like I just got my feet wet at CRI and do not fully understand how to use>for therapy purposes ie. where to apply applicator, over what range of>tissue, how to treat joints? I'm interested in purchasing a unit and it's>been hard comparing all of the models! Quick question regarding cluster>applicators...when you are figuring out your treamtent time based on>J=Wxsec, are you calculating based on each diode mW or on the total power>from the entire cluster? Is the advantage of a cluster applicator just in>regards to more surface area treated at once and therefore, less time in>general? Any recommendations on units?>Thanks so much in advance,>>Sincererly,>Lost in laser therapy...!>Tara , DVM>

[Guest guest]

This is good. I am as confused as anyone.

That is the point. I am trying to figure out why my more powerful laser didn’t

seem as effective as this class 1 that I have been trying out.

I read through some of the material over

the weekend and remember thinking that there were 4 wavelengths. At quick

glance I can only find a line that says “multiple wavelengths from 470-940”

but I vaguely remember something about a 635nm and around 800nm wavelength.

As for loosing it in the fur. The makers

of the laser of course claim there is no problem going through the fur. I had

a client try it out on her shoulder through her clothing (blue turtleneck I

believe) and she had a miraculous improvement. Of course, we know that everything

will absorb some light but is what the fur absorbs significant enough to worry

about?

________________________

www.evelynvet.com

evelynvet@...

From: VetRehab

[mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf

Of Amie Lamoreaux Hesbach

Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006

7:17 AM

To: VetRehab

Subject: Re: FW: Laser

application...

(and others),

What wavelengths and frequencies ARE you using? Higher

wavelengths target deeper tissues (red, infrared, 800nm+) while lower

wavelengths (ultraviolet, blue, 600nm) target more superficial tissues.

It makes sense that a combination of wavelengths would be more beneficial,

especially with injuries/disorders that involve more than one type of

tissue. For example, a TPLO: lower wavelengths are treating the

skin incision and superficial swelling while higher wavelengths are treating

into the muscle, tendon, bone, cartilage, and ligament. The frequencies

are basically the method by which we get a pulsed light rather than continuous,

so they reduce the power overall. It is theorized that specific

frequencies are better for acute vs. chronic conditions. And if we're

using a cluster vs. a probe are we dissipating some of the energy in the fur

(in the non-clipped dog) before we even get to the tissue of interest?

More questions than answers, I'm afraid.

Amie

Amie Lamoreaux

Hesbach, MSPT, CCRP

President, Animal Physical Therapy Special

Interest Group, Orthopaedic Section, American Physical Therapy Association

www.orthopt.org

Instructor, The Canine Rehabilitation

Institute

Wellington, Florida USA

www.caninerehabinstitute.com

CEO, For Paws

Rehabilitation, LLC

Port Republic, land USA

www.forpawsrehabilitation.com

Manager, Physical

Rehabilitation, The Mid-Atlantic

Animal Specialty

Hospital, LLC

Huntingtown,

land USA

www.vetmash.com

I still think that we are

not yet taking into account the frequency and wavelength of the laser we are

using. The tissues will absorb some wavelengths better than others.

You can’t just force it by trying to put more energy into the tissue.

All I can tell you is

that working on one of my patients for several months with my 250mw laser that

I bought 2 years ago helped some. When I tried the laser I am borrowing

with 12x5mw in a cluster head with 4 wavelengths and 7 frequencies the dog was

dramatically better after one treatment.

What do we know about the

frequencies and wavelengths of the lasers we are using? Could we be doing

more with less power if we had the right formula?

________________________

www.evelynvet.com

evelynvetcomcast (DOT) net

From: VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of Dr. Laurie McCauley

Sent:

Monday, December 11, 2006 3:22 PM

To:

VetRehab

Subject:

FW: Laser application...

This came to me since I forwarded Tara's message on. Thought I would pass

it on.

Laurie

Dear Dr ,

A friend referred your 'lost in laser therapy'

enquiry to me. I'm not a

member of the rehab group and am unable to post a

response online, so I hope

you don't mind me responding directly to you.

Regarding your first question about laser therapy

books, the best I can

recommend is 'The Laser Therapy Handbook' by Jan

Tuner & Lars Hode ($65). It

is not a step-by-step guide, but it does provide a

great deal of information

to readers interested in obtaining a deeper

understanding of this modality.

Unfortunately there are currently no

veterinary/rehab protocol guides or

user-oriented books available that are worth

purchasing.

Regarding cluster applicators, it is necessary to

know both the power of

each emitter in the cluster, and the total power

of the cluster. The former

will allow you to calculate the 'dose-per-point'

of each emitter, and the

latter the total body dose.

Knowledge of the power/power density per beam is

especially important for

laser clusters, but less-so for LED clusters. For

LED clusters it is often

sufficient to know the total power of the cluster

and the area of the

applicator.

An LED cluster may have 50+ emitters very close

together. In such an

applicator the beams from each LED are more likely

to overlap, thus creating

a more homogeneous distribution of the optical

output power over the surface

area covered by the applicator (and, thus, LED

clusters generally more

applicable to the treatment of superficial

conditions and open wounds, where

the power density of the incident beam is most

important).

Most laser clusters, however, have a relatively

low number of emitters

(4-to-5) spread over a relatively large area

(5-to-10cm2), so from

the

perspective of the tissues being treated you are

effectively applying 4-to-5

single-laser applicators concurrently.

For such a laser cluster the average power density

- total power over total

area - is meaningless. Attached is an email

response to Dr Curtis Turchin

that discusses in greater depth the problem of

'average' power density as it

applies to laser clusters. It refers to the Apollo

medical laser, which is

identical in output to SpectraVET's 4x500mW

cluster.

In short, when calculating treatment times for a

laser cluster you should

use the formula [seconds = Joules / Watts] for each laser emitter.

I hope I've been able to help clear this up.

If you would like any further information and/or

assistance regarding laser

therapy and/or laser equipment, please feel free

to contact me directly at

any time.

You may also wish to visit my Australian company's

website at

<http://www.spectramedics.com> and browse through the 'Resources'

section.

Kind regards,

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SpectraVET Therapeutic Lasers

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Managing Director

CELL:

SpectraVET Inc

EMAIL: <spectraspectravet>

WWW: <http://www.spectravet.com>

<http://www.spectramedics.com>

TEL:

FAX:

POST: 2460 Cortland Street

Waynesboro, VA 22980

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY. The information

contained in this communication

is for the named recipient. It may contain

confidential, privileged or

copyright material. If you receive this email in

error please delete it and

any attachments and notify the sender immediately

by reply email. If you are

not the named recipient, any use, reading,

copying, distributing or

disclosure of the information in this email is

strictly prohibited.

Any views expressed in this email are not

necessarily those of SpectraVET

Inc. SpectraVET does not warrant that this email

is free from viruses or

other defects. SpectraVET is not liable for loss,

damage or other

consequences that may arise from opening or using

this email or any

attachments.

If you no longer wish to receive messages from

SpectraVET Inc, please reply

to this message with 'UNSUBSCRIBE' written in the

subject line.

>From: " Dr. Laurie McCauley " <DrMcTops-vet-rehab>

>Reply-To: VetRehab

>To: <VetRehab >

>Subject: FW: Laser stuff

>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:36:26 -0600

>

>

>Hey All,

>

>Do you have any recommendations on text books

covering laser therapy, I

>feel

>

>like I just got my feet wet at CRI and do not

fully understand how to use

>for therapy purposes ie. where to apply

applicator, over what range of

>tissue, how to treat joints? I'm interested in

purchasing a unit and it's

>been hard comparing all of the models! Quick

question regarding cluster

>applicators...when you are figuring out your treamtent

time based on

>J=Wxsec, are you calculating based on each

diode mW or on the total power

>from the entire cluster? Is the advantage of a

cluster applicator just in

>regards to more surface area treated at once

and therefore, less time in

>general? Any recommendations on units?

>Thanks so much in advance,

>

>Sincererly,

>Lost in laser therapy...!

>Tara , DVM

>

[Guest guest]

We are speaking of class IIIb lasers? Or is yours class IV?

Amie (again)

--------- FW: Laser s

tuff>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:36:26 -0600>>>Hey All,>>Do you have any recommendations on text books covering laser therapy, I>feel>>like I just got my feet wet at CRI and do not fully understand how to use>for therapy purposes ie. where to apply applicator, over what range of>tissue, how to treat joints? I'm interested in purchasing a unit and it's>been hard comparing all of the models! Quick question regarding cluster>applicators.

/WBR>..when you are figuring out your treamtent time based on>J=Wxsec, are you calculating based on each diode mW or on the total power>from the entire cluster? Is the advantage of a cluster applicator just in>regards to more surface area treated at once and therefore, less time in>general? Any recommendations on units?>Thanks so much in advance,>>Sincererly,>Lost in laser therapy...!>Tara , DVM>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Can anyone advise me on Ramps, light weight. I have an owner who has a heavy Lab who is recovering from a prolapsed disc and she needs to get the dog to the hydro - She has purchased a Ramp but husband is going away and its too heavy to offer up to the car- so any ideas would be gratefully received. She has not had any luck from the internert to date.

Regards

Bridget McGillivray MCSP HPC MSc Vet Phys UK

FW: Laser stuff>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:36:26 -0600>>>Hey All,>>Do you have any recommendations on text books covering laser therapy, I>feel>>like I just got my feet wet at CRI and do not fully understand how to use>for therapy purposes ie. where to apply applicator, over what range of>tissue, how to treat joints? I'm interested in purchasing a unit and it's>been hard comparing all of the models! Quick question regarding cluster>applicators...when you are figuring out your treamtent time based on>J=Wxsec, are you calculating based on each diode mW or on the total power>from the entire cluster? Is the advantage of a cluster applicator just in>regards to more surface area treated at once and therefore, less time in>general? Any recommendations on units?>Thanks so much in advance,>>Sincererly,>Lost in laser therapy...!>Tara , DVM>

[Guest guest]

Happy holidays,

I am sorry to dredge this up but I didn’t

mean to let this line of discussion die.

Amie, the laser I have been talking about

is actually a class I which is my point. I am trying to understand why I

was getting such good results with something that is less than 60 mw. It

may be the combination of wavelengths or of frequencies or both. Amie, I

am not sure you are right about the frequencies being used to just dissipate and

therefore lower the power. My understanding is that the frequencies

chosen for this laser have to do with frequencies discovered by Dr. Rife and

others who found that each type of tissue and cells have their own

frequency. Have you heard of a Rife Machine? By choosing the

frequency that is closest to the type of tissue you are treating, their theory

is that the energy will get deeper into the tissues.

If anyone else has thoughts on this,

please speak up. All I can tell you is that I was in the market for a

stronger laser. I have been using a 200 mw probe for about 2 years with

reasonable results. I was looking for a 500 mw laser. I came across

a multi frequency, multi wavelength low power laser that was easy to use so I

gave it a try for two weeks and have had very good results. Better than

what I was getting with the old laser. I am trying to figure out if the

results I am getting are as good as they can get OR if I can find a laser with

similar wavelengths and frequencies and more power, am I going to get even

better results.

________________________

www.evelynvet.com

evelynvet@...

From: VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of forpawsrehab@...

Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006

8:43 AM

To: VetRehab

Subject: RE: FW: Laser

application...

We are speaking of class IIIb lasers? Or is yours class IV?

Amie (again)

--------- FW: Laser s tuff

>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:36:26 -0600

>

>

>Hey All,

>

>Do you have any recommendations on text books

covering laser therapy, I

>feel

>

>like I just got my feet wet at CRI and do not

fully understand how to use

>for therapy purposes ie. where to apply

applicator, over what range of

>tissue, how to treat joints? I'm interested in

purchasing a unit and it's

>been hard comparing all of the models! Quick

question regarding cluster

>applicators. /WBR>..when you are figuring out your treamtent

time based on

>J=Wxsec, are you calculating based on each

diode mW or on the total power

>from the entire cluster? Is the advantage of a

cluster applicator just in

>regards to more surface area treated at once

and therefore, less time in

>general? Any recommendations on units?

>Thanks so much in advance,

>

>Sincererly,

>Lost in laser therapy...!

>Tara , DVM

>