Guest guest Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 He realized that he was > glad that he had come so far, had read so much, and had come to under- > stand things so much better. Anyway, that's what he was thinking, and > that he ought to say, " Thank you " . Well, speaking for thousands of your cousins... " You are welcome " . I also have appreciated the internet and the access to the different AS/autism bulletin boards and articles by autistics like and and Jim Sinclair and jypsy.... Camille - calls herself oddizm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 Camille wrote: > I also have appreciated the internet and the > access to the different AS/autism bulletin > boards and articles by autistics like > and and Jim Sinclair and jypsy.... Yes, I look to all of them as our best advocates, but there is also Jerry, , and Juli right alongside them. There are also many more who I am hoping will be able to " get our message across " . Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 > Camille wrote: > > > I also have appreciated the internet and the > > access to the different AS/autism bulletin > > boards and articles by autistics like > > and and Jim Sinclair and jypsy.... > > Yes, I look to all of them as our best > advocates, but there is also Jerry, , > and Juli right alongside them. There are > also many more who I am hoping will be able > to " get our message across " . Ack, I should have said, Jane, Jerry, and Juli. I'd like to see a compilation of some their best articles put forward in a book, like " Women From Another Planet? " . It's an idea. Clay, who had to get up again at 4 AM to correct this major omission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Jane, Jerry, and Juli, jypsy and jim and then there are and who need to change their names to start with " j " . :-) Camille > > > > > I also have appreciated the internet and the > > > access to the different AS/autism bulletin > > > boards and articles by autistics like > > > and and Jim Sinclair and jypsy.... > > > > Yes, I look to all of them as our best > > advocates, but there is also Jerry, , > > and Juli right alongside them. There are > > also many more who I am hoping will be able > > to " get our message across " . > > Ack, I should have said, Jane, Jerry, and > Juli. I'd like to see a compilation of some > their best articles put forward in a book, like > " Women From Another Planet? " . It's an idea. > > Clay, who had to get up again at 4 AM to correct > this major omission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Top-posting uncharacteristically and dragging out an old post (still trying to catch up from when I was gone): 1. Actually, when I was born, there was talk of naming me " " . <grin> 2. If people were serious about some sort of book along the lines of _WfAP_ (but with some other particular focus), I would really like to contribute (and *possibly* help with the editing/producing/etc process, although certainly not be the main editor). 3. If #2 happens, can someone email me directly? I'm still nomail from this list. , disgruntled by the book her articles (the oldest ones that are most palatable to NTs, no less, of course) *are* in, but definitely wanting to contribute to some sort of *worthwhile* book that could affect people positively (and who knows some other people who might contribute well to some kind of autistic self-advocacy-centered book) > > > > > > > I also have appreciated the internet and the > > > > access to the different AS/autism bulletin > > > > boards and articles by autistics like > > > > and and Jim Sinclair and jypsy.... > > > > > > Yes, I look to all of them as our best > > > advocates, but there is also Jerry, , > > > and Juli right alongside them. There are > > > also many more who I am hoping will be able > > > to " get our message across " . > > > > Ack, I should have said, Jane, Jerry, and > > Juli. I'd like to see a compilation of some > > their best articles put forward in a book, like > > " Women From Another Planet? " . It's an idea. > > > > Clay, who had to get up again at 4 AM to correct > > this major omission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 wrote: > 2. If people were serious about some sort of book along > the lines of _WfAP_ (but with some other particular focus), > I would really like to contribute (and *possibly* help with > the editing/producing/etc process, although certainly not > be the main editor). And I'd really like to see such a book. I recently came across a curebie parent on another List who said " Love my son, sure, but to accept his " gift " ? - Never!!! " What he wrote about his son really made me sick, he was disgusted and ashamed, just a typical hysterical parental reaction to the " bad " news that his son has autism. So, what I would suggest for a focus of such a book is merely a compilation of such essays dealing with the topic, chosen by the authors themselves. I know these essays already exist, and it would be little problem to put them together with an eye toward countering CAN and other curebie groups. Please?? If some of you have differences, put them aside, and just put this thing together. Possible title? " Yes, we can " . (There was a book by Sammy Jr. - " Yes, I can " .) Clay > > > > > I also have appreciated the internet and the > > > > > access to the different AS/autism bulletin > > > > > boards and articles by autistics like > > > > > and and Jim Sinclair and jypsy.... > > > > > > > > Yes, I look to all of them as our best > > > > advocates, but there is also Jerry, , > > > > and Juli right alongside them. There are > > > > also many more who I am hoping will be able > > > > to " get our message across " . > > > > > > Ack, I should have said, Jane, Jerry, and > > > Juli. I'd like to see a compilation of some > > > their best articles put forward in a book, like > > > " Women From Another Planet? " . It's an idea. > > > > > > Clay, who had to get up again at 4 AM to correct > > > this major omission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 > > 2. If people were serious about some sort of book along > > the lines of _WfAP_ (but with some other particular focus), > > I would really like to contribute (and *possibly* help with > > the editing/producing/etc process, although certainly not > > be the main editor). > And I'd really like to see such a book. I recently came > across a curebie parent on another List who said " Love my > son, sure, but to accept his " gift " ? - Never!!! " What he > wrote about his son really made me sick, he was disgusted > and ashamed, just a typical hysterical parental reaction to > the " bad " news that his son has autism. Yes. I am getting so tired of that response my brain shuts off to prevent me from losing my temper. Demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what I believe about autism, and usually includes an accusation in it that I am several things I am not. > So, what I would suggest for a focus of such a book is merely > a compilation of such essays dealing with the topic, chosen > by the authors themselves. I know these essays already exist, > and it would be little problem to put them together with an > eye toward countering CAN and other curebie groups. Please?? > If some of you have differences, put them aside, and just > put this thing together. Possible title? " Yes, we can " . > (There was a book by Sammy Jr. - " Yes, I can " .) I don't really like " Yes, we can " . But titles could be decided later. It doesn't have to be just essays that already exist, either. It would be interesting to have discussions that formed into essays, as well, like WfAP does. Would also be an incredible amount of hard work for whoever took on the job of editing it. One thing I would like to get across in such an essay -- because it's been bugging me lately -- are the assumptions people seem to have with the no-cure perspective. For instance, people expect me, on my views on cure *alone*, to have a number of viewpoints and abilities I *don't* have. Such as that I oppose autistic people getting better lives, getting help with problems that *do* bother us, etc. Or that I am someone with (or even capable of) a job, a so-called " independent " life, speech, toilet-training, a life partner, a college degree, a life free of serious self-injury, a life free of several associated conditions I do have, an ability to think quickly, or the ability to do a zillion " basic " things that despite much attempt to do/learn them I really can't do. My few observable-outsiderly talents may be spectacular to some, but someone once summed it up best with " My islands of ability have steep cliffs. " Plus the cliffs move around and bounce up and down out of the ocean a lot, to continue the analogy a bit. But I would like to write such a thing in a way that didn't simply evoke pity or self-pity, because that's not my intent. Nor would I like it to sound like I'm " more autistic " or something. Just that the stereotype of what they expect an anti-cure autistic person to be like -- very NT-world " successful " -- is incredibly false and damaging and erases the presence of people like me, and erases the complexity of the viewpoint. Also that *calling* people like me and others similar-or-'more-able' " cured " is probably costing the lives currently of a lot of autistic people dying on the streets/other places because they can't get services or money or anything because people like to call them " cured " once they can [speak, type, whatever the current " cured " criteria is]. Would really like to address the issue in a complex way. Which takes a *lot* of work. (Writing is *not* easy for me, it's just something I'm good at and have worked very hard for -- two *very* different things.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Jolin wrote: > WfAP? Enlighten me. " Women from another Planet? " is a recent book published with several authors you know of. > > > wrote: > > > > > > 2. If people were serious about some sort of book along > > > > the lines of _WfAP_ (but with some other particular focus), > > > > I would really like to contribute (and *possibly* help with > > > > the editing/producing/etc process, although certainly not > > > > be the main editor). > > > > > And I'd really like to see such a book. I recently came > > > across a curebie parent on another List who said " Love my > > > son, sure, but to accept his " gift " ? - Never!!! " What he > > > wrote about his son really made me sick, he was disgusted > > > and ashamed, just a typical hysterical parental reaction to > > > the " bad " news that his son has autism. > > > > Yes. I am getting so tired of that response my brain shuts off to > > prevent me from losing my temper. Demonstrates a fundamental > > misunderstanding of what I believe about autism, and usually includes > > an accusation in it that I am several things I am not. > > > > > So, what I would suggest for a focus of such a book is merely > > > a compilation of such essays dealing with the topic, chosen > > > by the authors themselves. I know these essays already exist, > > > and it would be little problem to put them together with an > > > eye toward countering CAN and other curebie groups. Please?? > > > If some of you have differences, put them aside, and just > > > put this thing together. Possible title? " Yes, we can " . > > > (There was a book by Sammy Jr. - " Yes, I can " .) > > > > I don't really like " Yes, we can " . But titles could be decided later. > > > > It doesn't have to be just essays that already exist, either. It > > would be interesting to have discussions that formed into essays, as > > well, like WfAP does. > > > > Would also be an incredible amount of hard work for whoever took on > > the job of editing it. > > > > One thing I would like to get across in such an essay -- because it's > > been bugging me lately -- are the assumptions people seem to have with > > the no-cure perspective. For instance, people expect me, on my views > > on cure *alone*, to have a number of viewpoints and abilities I > > *don't* have. Such as that I oppose autistic people getting better > > lives, getting help with problems that *do* bother us, etc. Or that I > > am someone with (or even capable of) a job, a so- called " independent " > > life, speech, toilet-training, a life partner, a college degree, a > > life free of serious self-injury, a life free of several associated > > conditions I do have, an ability to think quickly, or the ability to > > do a zillion " basic " things that despite much attempt to do/learn them > > I really can't do. My few observable-outsiderly talents may be > > spectacular to some, but someone once summed it up best with " My > > islands of ability have steep cliffs. " Plus the cliffs move around > > and bounce up and down out of the ocean a lot, to continue the analogy > > a bit. > > > > But I would like to write such a thing in a way that didn't simply > > evoke pity or self-pity, because that's not my intent. Nor would I > > like it to sound like I'm " more autistic " or something. Just that the > > stereotype of what they expect an anti-cure autistic person to be like > > -- very NT-world " successful " -- is incredibly false and damaging and > > erases the presence of people like me, and erases the complexity of > > the viewpoint. Also that *calling* people like me and others > > similar-or-'more-able' " cured " is probably costing the lives currently > > of a lot of autistic people dying on the streets/other places because > > they can't get services or money or anything because people like to > > call them " cured " once they can [speak, type, whatever the current > > " cured " criteria is]. > > > > Would really like to address the issue in a complex way. Which takes > > a *lot* of work. (Writing is *not* easy for me, it's just something > > I'm good at and have worked very hard for -- two *very* different things.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 > > So, what I would suggest for a focus of such a book is merely > a compilation of such essays dealing with the topic, chosen > by the authors themselves. The other thing is, how narrow or wide would the topic be? Women from Another Planet had a fairly wide range of topics. Would this book, presuming it ever happened, be focused solely on being anti-cure, or on other issues surrounding autism as well? Would it be rigidly arranged, or less rigid (Women from Another Planet was not very rigidly arranged)? What *would* the overriding topic of such a book be? Would we look beyond a few mailing lists for authors? What viewpoints would be acceptable, and what viewpoints would not (and what viewpoints would we be willing to accept diversity on in order to include *other* important viewpoints)? What person would agree to edit and try to publish this monster (which is a really hard thing to do)? What format would the writing be in, and how rigid would we be about that? Would it be combination poetry/essays like Women from Another Planet? Would some of it be about our lives as well as our ideas? How much? Who would the book be aimed at, and how would they find out it existed? Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 wrote: Clay wrote: > > So, what I would suggest for a focus of such a book > > is merely a compilation of such essays dealing with > > the topic, chosen by the authors themselves. > > The other thing is, how narrow or wide would the topic be? I see it as a book that would dispel the " They're defective, let's cure them or exterminate them " ideas of CAN and other curebie groups. To let parents of newly diagnosed autistics know that they can choose to deal with their children in a constructive way, instead of playing the blame game and living in denial and false hope. To help them understand that we DO grow up, and may or may not still need services. To tell them that they do NOT have absolute rights to do with their children as they think best, and that what they might try to do can be far more destructive than they can imagine. > Women from Another Planet had a fairly wide range of topics. > Would this book, presuming it ever happened, be focused solely > on being anti-cure, or on other issues surrounding autism as > well? Would it be rigidly arranged, or less rigid (Women > from Another Planet was not very rigidly arranged)? I have seen such a book, a large white one, (can't remember the name of it, didn't buy it cause it cost $50.00+) that had an article by Dave Spicer. (I read that part at B & N.) It was basically an anthology by different writers. > What *would* the overriding topic of such a book be? Would > we look beyond a few mailing lists for authors? What view- > points would be acceptable, and what viewpoints would not > (and what viewpoints would we be willing to accept diversity > on in order to include *other* important viewpoints)? What > person would agree to edit and try to publish this monster > (which is a really hard thing to do)? I've suggested the over-all theme. I can't answer all of the questions, but the authors already suggested would know which of their articles would be pertinent. I'd start with Jim's " Don't Mourn For Us " and then the main article on the right side of 's website. There should certainly be room for some diversity, but on the subject of " acceptance of a child's diagnosis " and what to do next, how much diversity would there be? > What format would the writing be in, and how rigid would we > be about that? Would it be combination poetry/essays like > Women from Another Planet? Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought WfaP, had some trouble ordering at Amazon. I wouldn't think it needs poetry, but there may be some poems which " hit the nail on the head " . > Would some of it be about our lives as well as our ideas? > How much? That would be up to the authors, what they wish to say of their own lives. > Who would the book be aimed at, and how would they find > out it existed? Aimed at parents of autistic children. The usual ways? And might I remind the prospective authors of the concept of *royalties*? Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 > Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought WfaP, had some trouble > ordering at Amazon. Try ordering it at www.1stbooks.com instead. That's direct from the publisher. You can either get it in PDF format or hardcopy(book) format. Book format takes roughly a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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