Guest guest Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Gentlemen, Lets try and provoke thought... First, on most "lateral' moves with free weights, the force is a downward push "inward" on the elbow joint as the weight is raised vertically. On the Bullworker compression with the elbows down, the force is produced "outward" as the resistance is compressed. Question #1: is the outward force different than the inward force regarding joint strain and is one movement naturally weaker than the other? Second, there has been much talk about "retro" pressure; the negative force kicking back from spring compression... Question #2: Is 50 lbs of resistance with free weights "less" than 50 lbs of spring resistance and if so why? Remember, Bowflex is a giant spring rod. Regarding Question #2, please give proper respect to Newton's laws of physics, because if you go outside of that, we are talking "black magic." Respectfully, Bullworker Subject: Re: Elbow PainTo: bullworkerclub Date: Friday, November 12, 2010, 1:12 PM ,"Rather than blame the Bullworker for this, try the same movement with dumbbells (laterally) and one will experience discomfort; especially with heavier weight."I have never, ever had problems with my elbows doing movements like lateral raises. Shoulders…yes, through my own stupidity, but lateral raises do not stress the elbows in the same way because the handles on DBs are typically large enough there's not a lot of over-gripping required. If someone hurts their elbows doing a lateral raise, I'd have to ask what they're doing in the first place.When you are using the Bullworker or Steelbow for ANY compression exercise, you are directing force out and against the tendons while the muscles in the forearms are contracted. (The complete opposite of a lateral raise as gravity is pulling the weight down.) Quite similar to one of the causes of "tennis elbow"…the biomechanics may not be 100% identical, but, the force vectors are similar. The shoulders and chest muscles are not stronger if your elbows being down/out. You're simply changing the angle or direction of the force.I can share the ONLY way to truly minimize this issue: place the Bullworker handles in the lower part of your forearm—the "meaty" portion near the elbow. Now do your "chest work" (sorry, other muscles are also involved…shoulders, etc.). The further away from the elbow joint, the worse the leverage* and the weak spot in this whole equation is the elbow. (*Basic physics...)Doing it this way changes the leverage and the force vectors that impact your elbows are reduced…not eliminated.Chest compression is typically the biggest culprit.If you're having problems with lateral moves, it could be in part because of the grip. Tennis elbow is also caused…for some tennis players…by using a racket that is too small. Having to grip the cable or small handles on Bullworker cables wil cause:1. A forceful contraction of the forearm muscles2. The tendon, since the muscle is tight, also being tightened.3. That tendon pulled tight against the bursa and bone stricture of the elbow.How do you avoid the lateral issues with a Bullworker? Do the same thing Nautilus did with their Lateral Raise machine: remove the weak spot. Your elbows. Place your forearms between the cable and the tubing and THEN do your lateral move. The range of motion will be reduced it's a bit awkward, but, it will reduce the chances of tennis elbow.For many, the Bullworker's design just doesn't go with the natural biomechanics of our elbows and shoulders and the steady outward force of the spring aggravates the issue. > > > > Subject: Tendonitis?> To: bullworkerclub > Date: Friday, November 12, 2010, 6:19 AM> > > Â > > > > > > I have read of instances where some claim that the Bullworker can induce (elbow) tendonitis. Has anyone here experienced that? If so which exercise(s)? Is it just the chest compression that is the culprit?> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 , Apologies, but, if you're going to bring up Newton's Laws, then you should avoid the `black magic' to use your term: there is no downward " push " with free weights. Gravity pulls or attracts. " Newton's law of universal gravitation states that every massive particle in the universe attracts every other massive particle with a force which is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. " On your questions – #1…that question doesn't make sense in the context of the discussion. #2…50lbs of resistance is 50lbs of resistance. However, it's a lot more complicated than that when it comes to the application of force against mass. I put 50lbs on the end of a board and put the fulcrum (pivotal point) close the weight and I'll lift it easily. I put the fulcrum at the other end of the board (eg close to where you'll be applying force) and that moving that weight won't be as easy. M = Fd Archimedes, not Newton btw. (Not black magic, either) Now, lets apply this to what I wrote previously. And if you're going to apply Newton's Laws, which of the three were you trying to use? > > > > > > From: Marc <msflushingny@> > > Subject: Tendonitis? > > To: bullworkerclub > > Date: Friday, November 12, 2010, 6:19 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read of instances where some claim that the Bullworker can induce (elbow) tendonitis. Has anyone here experienced that? If so which exercise(s)? Is it just the chest compression that is the culprit? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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