Re: Talking of arnie lovers.....

[Guest guest]

Jerry wrote:

>And none of these fifteen victims, who probably bragged about being a

target

> before, ever complained until now? Sure.

Jerry, no woman is going to " brag " about being " groped " . If they wanted to

" play " with Arnold that is a different story (ICKY). I most certainly would

not be happy about being groped and I don't give a shit who it is be it

Duchovny or Huge Jackman. And I HAVE been groped by complete

strangers on the street and coworkers, it is humiliating, insulting, and an

assault to one's self esteem. I felt used, and so angry at myself for not

seeing it coming and not being able to prevent it.

Nobody believes a woman and nobody CARES if a woman has been groped, saying

" It's our fault " , or that " we wanted it " . All a pile of Bullshit.

I'm taking Kickboxing now. The next guy who tries to grope me is going to

end up with a big kick in the head.

And your observation in Hollywood about a guy having to " grope " women to

prove he is a man suggests to me the patriarchal and misogynistic

environment of Hollywood.

Certainly, if that is the atmosphere of Hollywood, how much credibility goes

to women at all? Why would they risk their jobs and what not to speak up

about it in a misogynistic environment like that?!

Now they were freed up to talk about it, because they had someone who would

listen, and be serious about it. Maybe the timing is done in such a way to

smear Arnold at the last minute, but just because of that you can't say that

everything they say is Bullshit. It's not the women's fault, that's the

fault of whoever published that information.

>I can say for Chandra Levy, Marilyn Monroe, Jo Kopechne and others

foolish enough to fool around with >Democratic sexists.

Really, men that are sexist and misogynistic, regardless of party, and who

are particularly sociopathic, would kill their victims. It doesn't matter

WHO they are- misogyny is a disease that is not about sex- it is about fear,

hatred and violence. It is about an illusion of self-identity and the

irrational fear that one's identity will be lost.

And poor Marilyn was not killed because she had sex with democrats- she was

killed because she was naive enough to tell people that she was going to go

public with AMERICAN SECRETS that the damn Kennedy were telling her as

pillow talk. She didn't know they were top secret, either (from the book:

The Last Days of Marilyn Monroe). Kennedy was a security risk, because

he would tell girls he slept with top secret information. That was probably

why he was shot a year later. And he deserved it, so did Bobby, who was the

one who actually ordered Marilyn killed. And there IS physical evidence of

that- she had enough barbiturate in her bloodstream to kill 15 people.

There was NOTHING in her stomach. If she had taken that many pills, the

concentration in the blood would only be enough to kill ONE person, and

after death, all digestive processed cease, AND she would have had tons of

pills in her stomach. She was injected with barbiturates.

To me, killing Marilyn is the ultimate symbol of misogyny. She represented

everything feminine, and they killed her and treated her like shit. Makes

me so mad- I actually went to visit her grave, after reading that book and

brought her flowers- I cried at the site, because it was so horrible what

they did to her. She was so confused and naive, she didn't have a chance-

she trusted all the wrong people.

They don't know who killed poor Chandra. There is no evidence yet that

directly links Condit to the death (last time I checked, but that was a long

time ago). They think it may have been a wild animal (which has happened

before) or an old boyfriend or something. At first I suspected Condit, but

when they found the body, there really wasn't any evidence of that.

Forensic evidence never lies. And dead persons DO tell tales. All the

evidence is there that a person needs, when they find a body, it's just not

visible with the naked eye. He could have had her killed and a wild animal

got to her, but then again an old boyfriend could have done the same thing.

I haven't checked up on it recently, but a forensic team was looking into

it. I'm sure they will find an answer to it eventually. I think he DID

sleep with her. If he did kill her, and the evidence points that way, then

he should be tortured and shot, I don't care who he is.

>Not that I believe her story; she snuck into his room to get an autograph?

Where? With a pen or another word that starts

> with " pen? "

This is unfair to the victim. Were you there? When was the last time YOU

were a woman? Do you know what goes on in our heads?

I've been naive enough to think that way, and I haven't been raped, but I

could have been because often men have a certain expectation about a woman

in their bedroom and some girls, especially troubled ones, don't think like

that. Maybe she just wanted a little kiss, and thought he was such a nice

guy he would stop at that. They are certainly not going to do that in

public. Maybe she was so entranced by him that she didn't know what she was

doing. So she wanted a kiss. SO WHAT. That does not make her evil, or a

criminal. Just because she wanted a kiss and got one doesn't automatically

mean she wanted to fuck him.

No one really knows what happened in that room, but I don't think you can

make those assumptions about the girl just because she was in his room.

>that men are taught to ignore unless it is a real loud one.

What sort of bullshit is this??!! NO means NO, and that excuse above has

been used by rapists and woman- haters everywhere, and is a tactic that is

used to say it's OK to rape women. Women don't say " no " unless they mean

it, and the only sort of guy who would ignore a " NO " is a woman hater and a

rapist. Period.

So if she was raped do YOU think she DESERVED IT?

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

> Nobody believes a woman and nobody CARES if a woman has been groped,

saying

> " It's our fault " , or that " we wanted it " . All a pile of Bullshit.

Additionally, it can take a person awhile to put the pieces together

and come forward. Admittedly I was young *and* autistic, but it took

me several years to say anything about what happened to me.

(Fortunately the person who did it confessed immediately, and

confessed to acts that, while pretty extreme, I hadn't noticed because

I was about that clueless. When I told *other* people, their reaction

was " Are you sure you weren't imagining it? " )

> What sort of bullshit is this??!! NO means NO, and that excuse

above has

> been used by rapists and woman- haters everywhere, and is a tactic

that is

> used to say it's OK to rape women. Women don't say " no " unless they

mean

> it, and the only sort of guy who would ignore a " NO " is a woman

hater and a

> rapist. Period.

What *really* irritates me is women perpetuating that one. Holly Dunn

has a song out that goes, " When I say no I mean maybe, baby don't you

know me yet? Nothin's worth havin' if it ain't a little hard to get. "

And I remember intervening after a 16-year-old girl told a guy, " Get

your hands off me, " only to be scolded (by *her*), shooed away (by

*her*) and told (by *her*) this was " one of her favorite fantasies " .

YUCK. I happen to have known the guy, and known that he *was* the

sort of person who would take out of that a view that being told to go

away was an invitation. The guy who molested me, too, had had that

sort of training (he talked about it all the time, and a whole lot of

other misogynistic garbage).

I know there's a certain amount of room for individual freedom, but I

*really* wish that people, when they indulge in acting out " fantasies "

like that, would just *think* for a minute about what the *next*

woman, who really *does* mean " Get your hands off me, " will encounter.

I know for a fact that she hadn't even explained *to him* before that

instant what she was doing.

And they say *I* have social skills problems (in fact, I was compared

to this 16-year-old at the time and *told* my social skills were much

worse than hers).

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Jeanette "

> I'm taking Kickboxing now. The next guy who tries to grope me is going to

> end up with a big kick in the head.

>

You'll hurt your foot kicking someone like that in the head! Try a little

lower - the groin, perhaps. That would be more effective and approriate. I

have told my daughter that the only time she may do that is if she feels in

serious danger and she may do so with so with my blessing. Any creep who

tries that with my little princess desreves it.

> And your observation in Hollywood about a guy having to " grope " women to

> prove he is a man suggests to me the patriarchal and misogynistic

> environment of Hollywood.

Hollywood was founded on this type of abuse. There are many movies that

feature rape (of all forms). Do creeps need to be encouraged? Do others

need to be told that this is acceptable behaviour?

> Now they were freed up to talk about it, because they had someone who

would

> listen, and be serious about it.

The more people who speak out against bullies and bullying, the sooner we

will be free of it.

> This is unfair to the victim. Were you there? When was the last time YOU

> were a woman? Do you know what goes on in our heads?

Is this addressed to NTs who are supposed to be empathetic, or ASDs who are

not?

Colin.

(Equal rights means *no-one* is subservient)

[Guest guest]

alfamanda wrote:

> What *really* irritates me is women perpetuating that one. Holly

> Dunn has a song out that goes, " When I say no I mean maybe, baby

> don't you know me yet? Nothin's worth havin' if it ain't a little

> hard to get. "

Indeed, playing hard to get is very much a part of courtship (or just

" hooking up " ). I have heard lots of females say that men like a

challenge, and they take delight in stomping on men that make advances

toward them, with the hope that those men will keep trying. These

females want men to continue to pursue them even though they have

clearly said that they were not interested in the guy. They want, in

other words, to be sexually harassed. What is the difference between

what a man is expected to do to " get " a woman that is interested in him,

and plain old sexual harassment? It's whether the woman appreciates the

advances or not. Given that she says the same thing either way, that

can be hard to figure out.

This has possibly been a sticking point for me in my futile attempts to

get dates with the singles ads. I'm not going to keep trying past the

initial rejection; I have better things to do than pursue someone who is

not interested, or to play idiotic NT mind games with one who is

interested but claims that she is not. I will only make an advance on

someone that I know is looking for someone (hence my choice of singles

ads; I have no way of knowing if a female I meet at random is looking

for someone, so I would never ask), and if I do ask, I do so once, and

that is the last chance she gets.

Men are supposed to have the attitude that this is a game; they are

supposed to do the scoring, and the women are the goalies that try to

prevent that. I don't have that attitude. Most males I know (NTs) are

well aware of this game, and they play it willingly. So are most NT

females willing to play this silly game. They are taught to say no

initially, so as not to seem easy, and the males are taught to expect

this, and to be persistent. To many or most of us on the spectrum, it

is senseless and idiotic. That much is obvious to me, but I seem to be

in the minority in that regard. NTs run the world, and this is the way

they like it.

> YUCK. I happen to have known the guy, and known that he *was* the

> sort of person who would take out of that a view that being told to

> go away was an invitation. The guy who molested me, too, had had

> that sort of training (he talked about it all the time, and a whole

> lot of other misogynistic garbage).

>

> I know there's a certain amount of room for individual freedom, but I

> *really* wish that people, when they indulge in acting out

> " fantasies " like that, would just *think* for a minute about what the

> *next* woman, who really *does* mean " Get your hands off me, " will

> encounter. I know for a fact that she hadn't even explained *to him*

> before that instant what she was doing.

>

> And they say *I* have social skills problems (in fact, I was compared

> to this 16-year-old at the time and *told* my social skills were

> much worse than hers).

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have never understood this bullshit game. I prefer to say what I feel

about someone - plain and simple. It gets me into trouble sometimes, but my

wife was attracted to me for (amongst other things ) transparency and

honesty as two of my better qualities.

Re: Re: Talking of arnie lovers.....

> alfamanda wrote:

>

> > What *really* irritates me is women perpetuating that one. Holly

> > Dunn has a song out that goes, " When I say no I mean maybe, baby

> > don't you know me yet? Nothin's worth havin' if it ain't a little

> > hard to get. "

>

> Indeed, playing hard to get is very much a part of courtship (or just

> " hooking up " ). I have heard lots of females say that men like a

> challenge, and they take delight in stomping on men that make advances

> toward them, with the hope that those men will keep trying. These

> females want men to continue to pursue them even though they have

> clearly said that they were not interested in the guy. They want, in

> other words, to be sexually harassed. What is the difference between

> what a man is expected to do to " get " a woman that is interested in him,

> and plain old sexual harassment? It's whether the woman appreciates the

> advances or not. Given that she says the same thing either way, that

> can be hard to figure out.

>

> This has possibly been a sticking point for me in my futile attempts to

> get dates with the singles ads. I'm not going to keep trying past the

> initial rejection; I have better things to do than pursue someone who is

> not interested, or to play idiotic NT mind games with one who is

> interested but claims that she is not. I will only make an advance on

> someone that I know is looking for someone (hence my choice of singles

> ads; I have no way of knowing if a female I meet at random is looking

> for someone, so I would never ask), and if I do ask, I do so once, and

> that is the last chance she gets.

>

> Men are supposed to have the attitude that this is a game; they are

> supposed to do the scoring, and the women are the goalies that try to

> prevent that. I don't have that attitude. Most males I know (NTs) are

> well aware of this game, and they play it willingly. So are most NT

> females willing to play this silly game. They are taught to say no

> initially, so as not to seem easy, and the males are taught to expect

> this, and to be persistent. To many or most of us on the spectrum, it

> is senseless and idiotic. That much is obvious to me, but I seem to be

> in the minority in that regard. NTs run the world, and this is the way

> they like it.

>

>

>

>

> > YUCK. I happen to have known the guy, and known that he *was* the

> > sort of person who would take out of that a view that being told to

> > go away was an invitation. The guy who molested me, too, had had

> > that sort of training (he talked about it all the time, and a whole

> > lot of other misogynistic garbage).

> >

> > I know there's a certain amount of room for individual freedom, but I

> > *really* wish that people, when they indulge in acting out

> > " fantasies " like that, would just *think* for a minute about what the

> > *next* woman, who really *does* mean " Get your hands off me, " will

> > encounter. I know for a fact that she hadn't even explained *to him*

> > before that instant what she was doing.

> >

> > And they say *I* have social skills problems (in fact, I was compared

> > to this 16-year-old at the time and *told* my social skills were

> > much worse than hers).

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

<< This was addressed to Jerry, as his comments were unfair to the

alleged victim. His comments sounded like he knew what was going on

in her head, and made the assumption that since she was in Kobe's

bedroom, she wanted sex, which I know for a fact is not true all of

the time for women. >>

Wow. I'd never even *heard* of that idea before.

Then again, I used to crawl into bed with guys (with sex the furthest

thing from my mind) and not understand why they got the wrong idea.

So I may be a tad clueless.

[Guest guest]

Colin Wrote:

>You'll hurt your foot kicking someone like that in the head! Try a

>little lower - the groin, perhaps. That would be more effective

>and approriate.

That's what steel toed boots are for ;o)

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

> >You'll hurt your foot kicking someone like that in the head! Try a

> >little lower - the groin, perhaps. That would be more effective

> >and approriate.

> That's what steel toed boots are for ;o)

How did I somehow inexplicably *know* that would be your answer? <grin>

[Guest guest]

>How did I somehow inexplicably *know* that would be your answer? <grin>

>

I guess my reputation as an Amazon precedes me. ;o)

I remember once a guy told me that I inspire awe in people, especially men. NOT

the kind of awe that comes from seeing a beautiful sunset, but the kind of awe

that comes from seeing Mt. Rainier (a stratovolcano like Mt. St. Helens)

erupting in full force. I was so touched, I didn't know what to say. I think I

was blushing.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

Nah, too much blood, and you'll just make him mad (he has a hard head,

remember). Not as satisfying and effective as a swift kick in the

groin for someone who is asking for it.

Re: Talking of arnie lovers.....

> Colin Wrote:

>

> >You'll hurt your foot kicking someone like that in the head! Try a

> >little lower - the groin, perhaps. That would be more effective

> >and approriate.

>

> That's what steel toed boots are for ;o)

>

> Jeanette

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, man, you haven't seen me kick!

Besides, Pixel cat will attack him as well by chewing on his neck (Pix is fast

and furious), Espresso at his feet ( he bites hard as hell and is a little

firecracker), and Buttons, my snooty Persian, will call a lawyer and see who he

could sue in the end to get money.

Jeanette

Re: Talking of arnie lovers.....

> Colin Wrote:

>

> >You'll hurt your foot kicking someone like that in the head! Try a

> >little lower - the groin, perhaps. That would be more effective

> >and approriate.

>

> That's what steel toed boots are for ;o)

>

> Jeanette

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>