(No subject)

[Guest guest]

Is it possible to get a copy of the DVD from the symposium?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Hi Chip:

This is a hard one to answer. I think it depends on my mom's lucidity at the

moment and the questions being asked. Sometimes she can handle the truth when

it's candy coated sometimes she just cannot comprehend it. I find that she

doesn't really ask about parents that have passed away. She seems to be

avoiding the subject. Anything, even her dog that we put asleep last Easter

doesn't become subject matter. Maybe as she falls father down the " rabbbit

hole " I will run into the dilemna of whether to lie or not to lie.

cglaughter1@... wrote:

Hi Gang:

Recently in Dear Abby, I found an interesting, thought provoking column

entitled " Lying can sometimes be a blessing. " There were several letters in

response to a daughter of a mother who has Alzheimer's Disease. The daughter was

uncomfortable lying to her elderly mother about the fact that her husband had

died.

You may have read the column. It was dated 3-16-06 in my local newspaper FYI.

The response I wanted to comment on was the one sent in by a social worker.

She said that " everyone needs to be told of deaths-but only once. " She went on

to say that " those with short term memory do not need to be reminded every

time they ask, but that everyone deserves the dignity of grieving for a loved

one

at least one time. That death is a part of life, as so many elders with

dementia understand. "

This got me to thinking. I then read an article called " Diminishment,

Spirituality Endures and Endures by Mira Mosie. She had worked with Sisters in

the

Memory Care Unit of Caritas Center.

Mira says that " it's telling therapeutic fibs, taking the time to learn a

Sister's reality at age 8 by pouring over photo alblums and listening to their

stories " that's important. When a resident asks, " What time is it on the

mainland? " the knowledgeable person knows that the Sister is at that moment on

the

mainland where she spent years of ministry in Hawaii and she knows how to

respond

to the question. " It's recognizing and joining in with the affected

individuals reality and speaking out of it to them.

In the past I have considered this to be lying and for me personally, lying

is wrong. However, this column in Dear Abby and the article by Mira Mosie on

working with Sister's with dementia has made me rethink therapeutic lying and

too change my thinking on the subject.

If we can be kept from sadness, depression, crying or worrying by one

traveling with us into our reality and speaking from it, I do not feel it is

lying.

Rather than intending to deceive, it is intended to help. I feel it may be

necessary to bring us the comfort and what we most need at that moment in time.

There should be no reason for the person involved in this fib to feel guilty,

but rather to have the assurance of knowing that's a person's needs have been

met for the moment. Perhaps the term for the process should be changed so as

not to make those that choose to use it feel guilty.

As one having dementia I hope that my caregivers and those working with me

will be thoughtful and kind enough to use therapeutic fibs when I need them. It

could help me get through some difficult times and may help the caregiver or

helper survive the day.

I was wondering what others with dementia, caregivers and other members

thought of telling a therapeutic fib and if you would mind sharing your thoughts

with us? I would be very interested.

Chip Gerber

[Guest guest]

I agree, very thought provoking. And I have run into this exact

issue with my mother many times. Both her parents died in the 70s

and 80s, so they have been gone a long time. In her more confused

moments she would refer to her mother or father, etc, and usually it

was just in reference so nothing needed to be answered. However,

one time about two months ago, she asked me if her mom and dad and

her sister were coming over to the house. She was in the nursing

home at this point and her sister is still alive but lives in a

different country. (My mother came from England and her relatives

are scattered all over the world.)

So - since she seemed otherwise fairly lucid at that moment, and the

previous time frame was very real to her, I answered with the truth,

that it was 2006, and her parents had been gone for quite some time,

and she was herself 81, etc. I added that her sister was quite well

and age 84. She became very quiet and very teary eyed, remembering

her parents and realizing that her wonderful thoughts (at the

moment) about them could not be true. It broke my heart to watch

her take this in. She did appear to grieve and talk about them for

a while and ask a few more questions. When she was done, she said,

I think I've talked about his all I can at the moment. It was very

clear she needed to take it all in and adjust to the idea, and she

became quite quiet and soon thereafter fell asleep with me holding

her hand.

Since then, I have spent quite some time thinking about this, and

I'm glad you wrote. I also will not make her live through that

again, if she refers to them again, I will work with her memories at

that point and talk about them. I knew them both even though I grew

up in the States and they lived in England, so I can speak of them

without guessing. And there are many other times when I have just

worked with what she is saying or helped with hallucinations by not

arguing that they are not there, but by fixing the problem (ask the

people to leave, or close the door, or explain the noise in some

fashion, whatever.) I believe it comforts them more sometimes than

telling the full truth. Often distraction conversation can move

them away from the problem area also, whatever works.

I also do not consider it lying, definitely not a harmful lie and I

do not feel guilty about it.

>

> Hi Gang:

>

> Recently in Dear Abby, I found an interesting, thought provoking

column

> entitled " Lying can sometimes be a blessing. " There were several

letters in

> response to a daughter of a mother who has Alzheimer's Disease.

The daughter was

> uncomfortable lying to her elderly mother about the fact that her

husband had

> died.

>

> You may have read the column. It was dated 3-16-06 in my local

newspaper FYI.

>

> The response I wanted to comment on was the one sent in by a

social worker.

> She said that " everyone needs to be told of deaths-but only once. "

She went on

> to say that " those with short term memory do not need to be

reminded every

> time they ask, but that everyone deserves the dignity of grieving

for a loved one

> at least one time. That death is a part of life, as so many elders

with

> dementia understand. "

>

> This got me to thinking. I then read an article

called " Diminishment,

> Spirituality Endures and Endures by Mira Mosie. She had worked

with Sisters in the

> Memory Care Unit of Caritas Center.

>

> Mira says that " it's telling therapeutic fibs, taking the time to

learn a

> Sister's reality at age 8 by pouring over photo alblums and

listening to their

> stories " that's important. When a resident asks, " What time is it

on the

> mainland? " the knowledgeable person knows that the Sister is at

that moment on the

> mainland where she spent years of ministry in Hawaii and she knows

how to respond

> to the question. " It's recognizing and joining in with the

affected

> individuals reality and speaking out of it to them.

>

> In the past I have considered this to be lying and for me

personally, lying

> is wrong. However, this column in Dear Abby and the article by

Mira Mosie on

> working with Sister's with dementia has made me rethink

therapeutic lying and

> too change my thinking on the subject.

>

> If we can be kept from sadness, depression, crying or worrying by

one

> traveling with us into our reality and speaking from it, I do not

feel it is lying.

> Rather than intending to deceive, it is intended to help. I feel

it may be

> necessary to bring us the comfort and what we most need at that

moment in time.

> There should be no reason for the person involved in this fib to

feel guilty,

> but rather to have the assurance of knowing that's a person's

needs have been

> met for the moment. Perhaps the term for the process should be

changed so as

> not to make those that choose to use it feel guilty.

>

> As one having dementia I hope that my caregivers and those working

with me

> will be thoughtful and kind enough to use therapeutic fibs when I

need them. It

> could help me get through some difficult times and may help the

caregiver or

> helper survive the day.

>

> I was wondering what others with dementia, caregivers and other

members

> thought of telling a therapeutic fib and if you would mind sharing

your thoughts

> with us? I would be very interested.

>

> Chip Gerber

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Chip

This is all very new to me. I'd always have gone for being honest and

discussing everything openly and in detail. I realise now I'm not

correcting dad when he talks about my mum (who died 8 years ago).

I don't like to lie, but telling " the truth " and watching him grieve

over again doesn't feel right either. It feels like learning another

reality and another " code of ethics " from how I'd normally operate

...... but then the whole world is upside down at the moment .... so

..... whatever

Áine

>

> Hi Chip,

>

> I think it is not only ok to engage in theraputic lying but very

> necessary at times. Who is gaining by insisting over and over again to

> a person who has dementia that their life partner passed? Perhaps the

> caregiver will stop the LO from asking but is it fair to upset them so?

> Who is gaining here - certainly not the LO.

> My mom's two eldest brothers passed away when she was in the middle

> stages. We let mom know - once was enough and she had a hard enough

> time grasping this. We also chose not to take mom to the funerals

> because we knew that she was anxiety ridden in large groups and didn't

> want other people's crying to upset her. It may sound cruel to some but

> I know that her brothers would have it no other way.

> Also, when mom was having a hallucination I not only did not try to

> " talk " her out of if but I went along with it too - roll with it - its

> less stressful for everyone. If mom said that she saw a beautiful

> parade I wouldn't try to tell her that there wasn't a parade but instead

> would ask her to tell me more about it. When my dad would tell her that

> things weren't real mom would seem so sad and would stop talking. If,

> on the other hand, we went with it she would smile and talk away. Mom

> stopped talking nearly for good over six months ago and what I wouldn't

> do to hear her talk - even if it is in connection to a hullucination.

> I've informed my children that if I get dementia that they have my

> permission to lie to me big time. I may have dementia but I want to be

> happy too.

> Courage

>

[Guest guest]

ine,

I like it when I heard it described as " loving lies. " It helped to know I was

lying like we think about it. Just making life easier for someone who was

having a hard time.

Donna R

Do you want to read more about Lewy Body? You can also read the Thistle, the

LBD Newsletter. Just click on:

http://www.lewybodydementia.org

Re: (no subject)

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Just a thought: Most of the people in the group can give you more true

information than most professional. Why?

Because the medical profession does not want to admit there is a difference

between LBD and Alzheimers dementia.

Jayn

in S GA

[Guest guest]

I'm finding that out. Just today, a nurse asked me what LBD was and how to

spell it.

Imogene

In a message dated 4/10/2006 9:30:17 PM Central Daylight Time,

jja52538@... writes:

Hi,

Just a thought: Most of the people in the group can give you more true

information than most professional. Why?

Because the medical profession does not want to admit there is a difference

between LBD and Alzheimers dementia.

Jayn

in S GA