Re: thoughts vs. voices

September 8, 2008

Hi Kathy, this actually comes up often with OCD thoughts -- whether

it could be voices or is it their thoughts. And a question the

therapist/doctors/crisis has to ask.

I think it's hard for kids to answer, even when it is the thoughts.

I've asked myself does he hear voices. Asked more than once

over these years. He says no.

Those I know of that hear voices usually hear someone else's voice.

That is, it might be a male or female voice, that is speaking to

them; they generally know it's not their thoughts. Some of the

people even have names for the " people " speaking to them.

I worked at our local mental health center for a few years, typing.

It was an eye-opener for me to find out how many people actually hear

voices or have visual hallucinations, etc. Sometimes medication

stops them, sometimes it doesn't. I generally was typing about

adults though, so far as visual and auditory hallucinations.

My sister has a history of hearing voices, nothing frequent and it

stopped, also visual hallucinations as an adult too. She told me the

voices began in her teen years (she's 59 now), something she

occasionally heard.

So - from just my own observations, what I've typed that clients said

and my sister, I would say that it's probably Joei's thoughts. I

think she would be able to tell if it was a " voice " speaking to her.

It's just hard for children to answer the question when asked since

they haven't actually heard a " voice " so there's nothing to compare

it to, if that makes sense.

Quick thoughts this a.m.,

>

> Question for ya all.

>

> Joei went through a situation tonite where she told me that though

she didn't want to and wasn't go to, her thoughts were telling her to

kill herself. She had the same old images of the knife, and a new

one of putting a gun to her head. She rated the urge a 4 between 1

and 10. What was different this time is that she used the

September 8, 2008

Hi Kathy,

I have been confused about this issue since my son became ill also.He will be 7

in two weeks, but he became ill when he was almost 5. He used to tell me he

heard and saw extremely gruesome and graphic things. I was in a panic and took

him to a psychiatrist who told me it was bad thought OCD and that he was very

confused because he was so young he couldn't describe it.

On another note, he still will say things frequently that he sees or hears and

his psychologist says it is psychosis. He will often say things like, " My OCD is

telling me to kill you and dad. " He doesn't want to do this, and feels bad about

it. This is a way you know it is OCD, because if they were a sociopath, etc,

they would have no remorse over their thoughts, and with you mentioning your

daughter was pale etc, she is definitely scared about the thoughts.

As said , I was told they usually hear someone else's voice if they are

psychotic ,and usually it is hearing people talking, like they are having a

conversation in your head.

Like you , I'm very scared and concerned. I have an appt next month for my son

at a very good hospital that I have been waiting for for 5 months now, and I'm

hoping to get some answers.

I pray that you find some answers also!!!

Hugs

Judy

Subject: thoughts vs. voices

To:

Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 2:34 AM

Question for ya all.

Joei went through a situation tonite where she told me that though she didn't

want to and wasn't go to, her thoughts were telling her to kill herself. She

had the same old images of the knife, and a new one of putting a gun to her

head. She rated the urge a 4 between 1 and 10. What was different this time is

that she used the words " kill myself. "

I called the crisis center because I don't feel I am qualified to assess that

sort of thing. After they had me lock the knives in the trunk of my car (that

was just way to real for me!) they asked me if her thoughts were telling her to

take the actions, or if she heard voices.

When I asked Joei if her thoughts urged her or if a voice was telling her to

take the actions, she became pale and got a confused look. She told me she

thought it was her thoughts.

Now that she is asleep and I am thinking, I wonder if she was truthful with me.

She is so embarrassed by all of this, I wonder if she didn't want to say it was

voices?

She has been really agitated this weekend, even though Hannah was here. They

laughed and were their usual pain in the butt selfs, lol, but she kept saying

she just wanted to hit something because of her anger. She was very

argumentative as well.

As soon as Hannah left, she became so sad. She had to take the anxiety meds

twice today since then.

Anyway, my question is how do you know if it is a thought or voices? Though I'm

pretty confident she is telling me everything, I am wondering now if she

actually does hear voices. Maybe that is something that just freaks her out to

much to tell me.

She's asleep now and she said the thoughts were gone. The whole situation lasted

about an hour, it was right when I put her to bed that she told me. It was

really hard for her to tell me, she hemmed and hawed and said it was so

embarrassing that she didn't want to say what her thoughts were.

Did anyone go out on family leave from work while treatment was happening? If

so, can she get social security if I was to do that?

~~Kathy

gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net

http://www.myspace. com/clearingacha nnel

yahoo messenger id gkathy40yahoo (DOT) com

Courage is not living without fear.

Courage is being scared to death and doing the right thing anyway.

-Chae

September 8, 2008

Hi Kathy.

My DD always has those same thoughts, so I know exactly what your feeling. My

heart sinks every time my DD tells me them.

In my DD's case she has in the past as well as the present always maintained

that she personally didn't want to hurt herself. That it was OCD's voice or

images. She still gets scared of these voices or images even after six months

of hearing them.

Have you directly asked your DD if she wants to hurt herself or is it just OCD's

voice/images? Do you think that your DD has some depression? Is she at the age

where hormones might be messing with her? All these things can come into play.

It is very scary so my heart goes out to you. I don't know if I'm just being

naïve but I pray constantly all day that these types of thought's go away for

ever.

(((Hugs)))

Jen

thoughts vs. voices

Question for ya all.

Joei went through a situation tonite where she told me that though she didn't

want to and wasn't go to, her thoughts were telling her to kill herself. She

had the same old images of the knife, and a new one of putting a gun to her

head. She rated the urge a 4 between 1 and 10. What was different this time is

that she used the words " kill myself. "

I called the crisis center because I don't feel I am qualified to assess that

sort of thing. After they had me lock the knives in the trunk of my car (that

was just way to real for me!) they asked me if her thoughts were telling her to

take the actions, or if she heard voices.

When I asked Joei if her thoughts urged her or if a voice was telling her to

take the actions, she became pale and got a confused look. She told me she

thought it was her thoughts.

Now that she is asleep and I am thinking, I wonder if she was truthful with

me. She is so embarrassed by all of this, I wonder if she didn't want to say it

was voices?

She has been really agitated this weekend, even though Hannah was here. They

laughed and were their usual pain in the butt selfs, lol, but she kept saying

she just wanted to hit something because of her anger. She was very

argumentative as well.

As soon as Hannah left, she became so sad. She had to take the anxiety meds

twice today since then.

Anyway, my question is how do you know if it is a thought or voices? Though

I'm pretty confident she is telling me everything, I am wondering now if she

actually does hear voices. Maybe that is something that just freaks her out to

much to tell me.

She's asleep now and she said the thoughts were gone. The whole situation

lasted about an hour, it was right when I put her to bed that she told me. It

was really hard for her to tell me, she hemmed and hawed and said it was so

embarrassing that she didn't want to say what her thoughts were.

Did anyone go out on family leave from work while treatment was happening? If

so, can she get social security if I was to do that?

~~Kathy

gkathy40@...

http://www.myspace.com/clearingachannel<http://www.myspace.com/clearingachannel>

yahoo messenger id gkathy40@...

Courage is not living without fear.

Courage is being scared to death and doing the right thing anyway.

-Chae

September 8, 2008

Hi Judy.

It's just my opinion but when you mention that the therapist thinks that your

son has psychosis due to the thoughts/images of hurting his parents, that is

just regular OCD.

If you haven't already pick up the book, " The Imp of the Mind " , by Lee Baer.

This book deals only with OCD thoughts/images ~ no physical rituals.

My DD has had that same thought/image and it's common. Please pick up this book

to ease your mind, as well as, get more insight into what's going on in your

DS's head.

Jen

thoughts vs. voices

To: <mailto: >

Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 2:34 AM

Question for ya all.

Joei went through a situation tonite where she told me that though she didn't

want to and wasn't go to, her thoughts were telling her to kill herself. She

had the same old images of the knife, and a new one of putting a gun to her

head. She rated the urge a 4 between 1 and 10. What was different this time is

that she used the words " kill myself. "

I called the crisis center because I don't feel I am qualified to assess that

sort of thing. After they had me lock the knives in the trunk of my car (that

was just way to real for me!) they asked me if her thoughts were telling her to

take the actions, or if she heard voices.

When I asked Joei if her thoughts urged her or if a voice was telling her to

take the actions, she became pale and got a confused look. She told me she

thought it was her thoughts.

Now that she is asleep and I am thinking, I wonder if she was truthful with

me. She is so embarrassed by all of this, I wonder if she didn't want to say it

was voices?

She has been really agitated this weekend, even though Hannah was here. They

laughed and were their usual pain in the butt selfs, lol, but she kept saying

she just wanted to hit something because of her anger. She was very

argumentative as well.

As soon as Hannah left, she became so sad. She had to take the anxiety meds

twice today since then.

Anyway, my question is how do you know if it is a thought or voices? Though

I'm pretty confident she is telling me everything, I am wondering now if she

actually does hear voices. Maybe that is something that just freaks her out to

much to tell me.

She's asleep now and she said the thoughts were gone. The whole situation

lasted about an hour, it was right when I put her to bed that she told me. It

was really hard for her to tell me, she hemmed and hawed and said it was so

embarrassing that she didn't want to say what her thoughts were.

Did anyone go out on family leave from work while treatment was happening? If

so, can she get social security if I was to do that?

~~Kathy

gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net

http://www.myspace.<http://www.myspace./> com/clearingacha nnel

yahoo messenger id gkathy40yahoo (DOT) com

Courage is not living without fear.

Courage is being scared to death and doing the right thing anyway.

-Chae

September 8, 2008

Hi Jen,

Yes, I have that book. Even after reading it, I'm very scared. I realize this

form of OCD can be very confusing to a small child, and like I said, everytime

he says something like this I ask him if this is how he REALLY feels and he says

no. I think the reason the psychologist said my son was psychotic was because he

was seeing things( or so I think he was) he was telling me he could feel the

wind going by him as he walked down the hall, and he told me he saw some

horrible things that I won't say on here. I think this may have been his

anxiety running away from him due to all these horrible thoughts. Thoughts about

things he never even heard of. Last week he came into the house pale as a ghost

and crying and asked me to check and see if half his head was still there. His

current doctor tells me this is OCD. I'm not sure about this.

Thank you for replying. It always means so much to me to have the support of

this group. I could never survive every day without it!

Hugs

Judy

From: Kathy <gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net<mailto:gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net>>

Subject: thoughts vs. voices

To: @ yahoogroups. com<mailto:@ yahoogroups. com>

Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 2:34 AM

Question for ya all.

Joei went through a situation tonite where she told me that though she didn't

want to and wasn't go to, her thoughts were telling her to kill herself. She had

the same old images of the knife, and a new one of putting a gun to her head.

She rated the urge a 4 between 1 and 10. What was different this time is that

she used the words " kill myself. "

I called the crisis center because I don't feel I am qualified to assess that

sort of thing. After they had me lock the knives in the trunk of my car (that

was just way to real for me!) they asked me if her thoughts were telling her to

take the actions, or if she heard voices.

When I asked Joei if her thoughts urged her or if a voice was telling her to

take the actions, she became pale and got a confused look. She told me she

thought it was her thoughts.

Now that she is asleep and I am thinking, I wonder if she was truthful with me.

She is so embarrassed by all of this, I wonder if she didn't want to say it was

voices?

She has been really agitated this weekend, even though Hannah was here. They

laughed and were their usual pain in the butt selfs, lol, but she kept saying

she just wanted to hit something because of her anger. She was very

argumentative as well.

As soon as Hannah left, she became so sad. She had to take the anxiety meds

twice today since then.

Anyway, my question is how do you know if it is a thought or voices? Though I'm

pretty confident she is telling me everything, I am wondering now if she

actually does hear voices. Maybe that is something that just freaks her out to

much to tell me.

She's asleep now and she said the thoughts were gone. The whole situation lasted

about an hour, it was right when I put her to bed that she told me. It was

really hard for her to tell me, she hemmed and hawed and said it was so

embarrassing that she didn't want to say what her thoughts were.

Did anyone go out on family leave from work while treatment was happening? If

so, can she get social security if I was to do that?

~~Kathy

gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net

http://www.myspace.<http://www.myspace. /> com/clearingacha nnel

yahoo messenger id gkathy40yahoo (DOT) com

Courage is not living without fear.

Courage is being scared to death and doing the right thing anyway.

-Chae

September 8, 2008

When my daughter first started having intrusive thoughts and was calling them

voices......and psychiatrist kept asking me are they voices or just intrusive

thougths....I wasnt sure didnt even realize there was a difference at the time.

And then he asked the simple question to her, is it saying it inside your head

or outside your head.....voices are heard outside of your head where as the

repeditive chanting inside the head are intrusive thoughts! Hope that helps

peg

Subject: thoughts vs. voices

To:

Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 1:34 AM

Question for ya all.

Joei went through a situation tonite where she told me that though she didn't

want to and wasn't go to, her thoughts were telling her to kill herself. She

had the same old images of the knife, and a new one of putting a gun to her

head. She rated the urge a 4 between 1 and 10. What was different this time is

that she used the words " kill myself. "

I called the crisis center because I don't feel I am qualified to assess that

sort of thing. After they had me lock the knives in the trunk of my car (that

was just way to real for me!) they asked me if her thoughts were telling her to

take the actions, or if she heard voices.

When I asked Joei if her thoughts urged her or if a voice was telling her to

take the actions, she became pale and got a confused look. She told me she

thought it was her thoughts.

Now that she is asleep and I am thinking, I wonder if she was truthful with me.

She is so embarrassed by all of this, I wonder if she didn't want to say it was

voices?

She has been really agitated this weekend, even though Hannah was here. They

laughed and were their usual pain in the butt selfs, lol, but she kept saying

she just wanted to hit something because of her anger. She was very

argumentative as well.

As soon as Hannah left, she became so sad. She had to take the anxiety meds

twice today since then.

Anyway, my question is how do you know if it is a thought or voices? Though I'm

pretty confident she is telling me everything, I am wondering now if she

actually does hear voices. Maybe that is something that just freaks her out to

much to tell me.

She's asleep now and she said the thoughts were gone. The whole situation lasted

about an hour, it was right when I put her to bed that she told me. It was

really hard for her to tell me, she hemmed and hawed and said it was so

embarrassing that she didn't want to say what her thoughts were.

Did anyone go out on family leave from work while treatment was happening? If

so, can she get social security if I was to do that?

~~Kathy

gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net

http://www.myspace. com/clearingacha nnel

yahoo messenger id gkathy40yahoo (DOT) com

Courage is not living without fear.

Courage is being scared to death and doing the right thing anyway.

-Chae

September 8, 2008

Judy, please let us know how your appointment goes next month. )

Hoping and praying for good results.

Hugs,

BJ

>

> Subject: thoughts vs. voices

> To:

> Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 2:34 AM

>

> Question for ya all.

>

> Joei went through a situation tonite where she told me that though

she didn't want to and wasn't go to, her thoughts were telling her to

kill herself. She had the same old images of the knife, and a new one

of putting a gun to her head. She rated the urge a 4 between 1 and

10. What was different this time is that she used the words " kill

myself. "

>

> I called the crisis center because I don't feel I am qualified to

assess that sort of thing. After they had me lock the knives in the

trunk of my car (that was just way to real for me!) they asked me if

her thoughts were telling her to take the actions, or if she heard

voices.

>

> When I asked Joei if her thoughts urged her or if a voice was

telling her to take the actions, she became pale and got a confused

look. She told me she thought it was her thoughts.

>

> Now that she is asleep and I am thinking, I wonder if she was

truthful with me. She is so embarrassed by all of this, I wonder if

she didn't want to say it was voices?

>

> She has been really agitated this weekend, even though Hannah was

here. They laughed and were their usual pain in the butt selfs, lol,

but she kept saying she just wanted to hit something because of her

anger. She was very argumentative as well.

>

> As soon as Hannah left, she became so sad. She had to take the

anxiety meds twice today since then.

>

> Anyway, my question is how do you know if it is a thought or

voices? Though I'm pretty confident she is telling me everything, I

am wondering now if she actually does hear voices. Maybe that is

something that just freaks her out to much to tell me.

>

> She's asleep now and she said the thoughts were gone. The whole

situation lasted about an hour, it was right when I put her to bed

that she told me. It was really hard for her to tell me, she hemmed

and hawed and said it was so embarrassing that she didn't want to say

what her thoughts were.

>

> Did anyone go out on family leave from work while treatment was

happening? If so, can she get social security if I was to do that?

>

> ~~Kathy

>

> gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net

> http://www.myspace. com/clearingacha nnel

> yahoo messenger id gkathy40yahoo (DOT) com

> Courage is not living without fear.

> Courage is being scared to death and doing the right thing anyway.

>

> -Chae

>

September 8, 2008

Judy, I don't think I replied to a post you wrote before about your

son regarding asking you about his head. I know I meant to but can't

recall doing it.

I wonder if what your son experiences is either derealization or

depersonalization. You can google a lot about it, see terms together

a lot.

http://www.panic-anxiety.com/depersonalization-derealization/

Can't recall if he's on medication that might cause it. But anxiety

alone can cause it.

One portion of another site, mentions unattached:

Depersonalization Disorder

This disorder is characterized by a persistent and recurrent feeling

as if one's body does not seem real or fully attached, to the extent

that this interferes with functioning. It may include " out of body "

experiences or feeling as if parts of the body are unattached,

changed, or numb.. Depersonalization disorder can sometimes be

associated with a feeling of derealization in which the outside world

feels unreal, fog-like or two dimensional. Depersonalization

experiences can occur in other dissociative disorders and in other

medical conditions such as temporal lobe seizure. This diagnosis

should not be made if it is part of such other conditions.

http://www.anxietyandtraumaclinic.com/disorders/dissociation.php

Just a quick thought.

>

> Hi Jen,

> Yes, I have that book. Even after reading it, I'm very scared. I

realize this form of OCD can be very confusing to a small child, and

like I said, everytime he says something like this I ask him if this

is how he REALLY feels and he says no. I think the reason the

psychologist said my son was psychotic was because he was seeing

things( or so I think he was) he was telling me he could feel the

September 8, 2008

Thank you everyone. Your help is appreciated. I found Imp of the Mind

and am on my way out the door right now to go get it.

You all are very much appreciated!

September 8, 2008

Great. I will try that next time.

~~Kathy

gkathy40@...

http://www.myspace.com/clearingachannel

yahoo messenger id gkathy40@...

Courage is not living without fear.

Courage is being scared to death and doing the right thing anyway.

-Chae

From: Kathy <gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net>

Subject: thoughts vs. voices

To: @ yahoogroups. com

Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 1:34 AM

Question for ya all.

Joei went through a situation tonite where she told me that though she didn't

want to and wasn't go to, her thoughts were telling her to kill herself. She

had the same old images of the knife, and a new one of putting a gun to her

head. She rated the urge a 4 between 1 and 10. What was different this time is

that she used the words " kill myself. "

I called the crisis center because I don't feel I am qualified to assess that

sort of thing. After they had me lock the knives in the trunk of my car (that

was just way to real for me!) they asked me if her thoughts were telling her to

take the actions, or if she heard voices.

When I asked Joei if her thoughts urged her or if a voice was telling her to

take the actions, she became pale and got a confused look. She told me she

thought it was her thoughts.

Now that she is asleep and I am thinking, I wonder if she was truthful with me.

She is so embarrassed by all of this, I wonder if she didn't want to say it was

voices?

She has been really agitated this weekend, even though Hannah was here. They

laughed and were their usual pain in the butt selfs, lol, but she kept saying

she just wanted to hit something because of her anger. She was very

argumentative as well.

As soon as Hannah left, she became so sad. She had to take the anxiety meds

twice today since then.

Anyway, my question is how do you know if it is a thought or voices? Though I'm

pretty confident she is telling me everything, I am wondering now if she

actually does hear voices. Maybe that is something that just freaks her out to

much to tell me.

She's asleep now and she said the thoughts were gone. The whole situation lasted

about an hour, it was right when I put her to bed that she told me. It was

really hard for her to tell me, she hemmed and hawed and said it was so

embarrassing that she didn't want to say what her thoughts were.

Did anyone go out on family leave from work while treatment was happening? If

so, can she get social security if I was to do that?

~~Kathy

gkathy40sbcglobal (DOT) net

http://www.myspace. com/clearingacha nnel

yahoo messenger id gkathy40yahoo (DOT) com

Courage is not living without fear.

Courage is being scared to death and doing the right thing anyway.

-Chae

September 9, 2008

Hi

Thank you so much for that information!!!

It does sound like my son! He has many of the symptoms on the list.He always

tells me he feels like he is in a dream and not there.

I also have dissasociation when I have my panic attacks, and I was experiencing

other symptoms as well. Now after reading the website you sent I realize this is

all a part of the anxiety. My psychiatrist told me it was as well,but when you

are getting those symptoms you think you are going crazy!(lol)

With my son, as I've said, I was absolutely terrifed! Now I feel a little

better.

Thank you so much. I never relaized all this could tie in to the anxiety!!! I

kept asking myself why the Abilify my son is on was not helping with these weird

symptoms.

Hugs

Judy

Subject: Re: thoughts vs. voices

To:

Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 5:25 PM

Judy, I don't think I replied to a post you wrote before about your

son regarding asking you about his head. I know I meant to but can't

recall doing it.

I wonder if what your son experiences is either derealization or

depersonalization. You can google a lot about it, see terms together

a lot.

http://www.panic- anxiety.com/ depersonalizatio n-derealization/