Re: Thoughts on NT Communication for AS and Auties

[Guest guest]

Jane wrote:

> The cashier at the grocery store gives

> off signals to her customers, and the customers give off

> signals to the cashier. This is like the way two cats signal

> to one another with ears and tails, whether they know each

> other well or not. It's just natural to the species. They

> literally can't help doing it. Nor can NT humans.

This reminds me of something. It was mentioned that NTs do the social " how

are you? " without expecting an honest response. This was actually brought up

at our church group Wednesday night. Some at the meeting admitted that it is

simply a social ritual. They actually want to come to the place where they

can ask the question sincerely.

Anyway, what I was thinking is that when I tell people to " have a nice day "

I only do so when I mean it. I don't do the mindless social ritual of just

saying it, it feels like lying to me. I used to be a cashier and would say

it to customers who I really did want to have a nice day. I got such good

feedback. I mean, some of these people would go around telling others that

my telling them this made their whole day! That they were having a rough day

and it meant a lot to them.

The other cashiers did not get this kind of feedback even though they would

say the same thing. Even people I see in other contexts have this reaction

to my telling them to have a nice day, like I just gave them a hundred

dollars or something. It always puzzled me. Now I wonder if maybe they can

tell that when I say it I mean it, and that is why they appreciate it so

much?

Take care,

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

The way I think of it: NTs live in society the way fish

live in water. They have a physiological and psychological

need (no doubt the psychological need evolved out of the

physiological need) to *feel* -- to *sense* -- the " flavor "

of the water (society) around them. Their " feelers " or

" antennae " are always alert, picking up the vibes/scents/

currents that will give them the information they need to

feel secure.

Some of this necessary sensory input comes to them in

visual form: they rely on the " body language " and facial

expressions of others to give them a " reading " of the

" temperature " and " salinity " of the " water " around them.

Some of the necessary sensory input comes to them in

audible form: they are like bats who send out squeeks of

(to us) meaningless sound so that it will bounce off those

around them and be returned in the form of squeeks that

they can interpret/analyze (automatically) in order to gain

a better " picture " of the slope of the ocean floor beneath

them or the presence of possibly dangerous (or sheltering)

reefs ahead.

All of this " sensing " is automatic. They have no conscious

awareness that they are doing it. But if their automatic

sensing system is blocked, they immediately become tense.

The are so used to having information pouring in from all

sides all the time (below the level of conscious thought,

all handled automatically, analyzed, and used by their

automatic pilot to keep them swimming safely in a straight

line through their social sea) that if they come across a

" dead space " where their squeaks evoke no reassuring echo,

they naturally find it upsetting.

They want their social world to be seamless, to remit

useful information to them from every point -- just as fish

and birds and squirrels rely on their ability to " pick up "

useful information (scents, sounds, postures) from every

element of the water/air/ground around them.

Autistics may be perceived as " dead space " that returns no

echo. Or we may be perceived as elements that return " wrong "

(out of place, " inappropriate " ) social information of this

unconscious/automatic variety. In fact, we are more like the

" dead space, " I think, in that, except when we *intend* to

communicate with someone, our systems are not sending out

signals from an NT central-processing function.

But NTs *do* send out those signals. The ability to do so

must have evolved over a very long time (as it did in all

the animals I know about) so that the individual members of

the species could become mutually supporting in this way.

For two NTs, person A's signals are a reassurance for B and

B's signals are a reassurance for A. And they don't even need

to know each other. The cashier at the grocery store gives

off signals to her customers, and the customers give off

signals to the cashier. This is like the way two cats signal

to one another with ears and tails, whether they know each

other well or not. It's just natural to the species. They

literally can't help doing it. Nor can NT humans.

Jane (having enjoyed reading Jeanette's essay and

responding with one of her own because it's interesting

to talk about this stuff)

[Guest guest]

Then why take the piss out of someone who expresses a view different

from your own. You are acting very NT at this moment yourself.

>The way I think of it: NTs live in society the way fish

>live in water. They have a physiological and psychological

>need (no doubt the psychological need evolved out of the

>physiological need) to *feel* -- to *sense* -- the " flavor "

>of the water (society) around them.

This group is very much like that. Outsiders who express views

different to Clay are flamed.

Their " feelers " or

> " antennae " are always alert, picking up the vibes/scents/

>currents that will give them the information they need to

>feel secure.

>

Same as this group. People bounce off prose off and Clay and

anyone who disagrees with them is fair game.

>Some of this necessary sensory input comes to them in

>visual form: they rely on the " body language " and facial

>expressions of others to give them a " reading " of the

> " temperature " and " salinity " of the " water " around them.

>

Not facial expressions here but expressions such as " Get A Grip " just

proves my point.

>Some of the necessary sensory input comes to them in

>audible form: they are like bats who send out squeeks of

>(to us) meaningless sound so that it will bounce off those

>around them and be returned in the form of squeeks that

>they can interpret/analyze (automatically) in order to gain

>a better " picture " of the slope of the ocean floor beneath

>them or the presence of possibly dangerous (or sheltering)

>reefs ahead.

Its a bit like a clique here. I have noticed that I came here as an

outsider and have been treated as such. Just cause I was booted by

for having a certain point of view DOESN'T MEAN I SHOULD BE

TREATED AS SUCH HERE. We all have varying levels of AS or Autism and

as such that should be taken into account. Some people are very high

functioning and almost NT.

>All of this " sensing " is automatic. They have no conscious

>awareness that they are doing it. But if their automatic

>sensing system is blocked, they immediately become tense.

>The are so used to having information pouring in from all

>sides all the time (below the level of conscious thought,

>all handled automatically, analyzed, and used by their

>automatic pilot to keep them swimming safely in a straight

>line through their social sea) that if they come across a

> " dead space " where their squeaks evoke no reassuring echo,

>they naturally find it upsetting.

I see where you are coming from. I myself posted some good prose

here on bullying. But my help was refused and ignored by others.

Even to the very NT way of skipping my posts and talking to others

about bullying and not even acknowledging my prose.

>They want their social world to be seamless, to remit

>useful information to them from every point -- just as fish

>and birds and squirrels rely on their ability to " pick up "

>useful information (scents, sounds, postures) from every

>element of the water/air/ground around them.

But in this group its a social clique. Like it or not some people

bandy together and feel threatened by anyone that thinks differently

from them.

>Autistics may be perceived as " dead space " that returns no

>echo. Or we may be perceived as elements that return " wrong "

>(out of place, " inappropriate " ) social information of this

>unconscious/automatic variety. In fact, we are more like the

> " dead space, " I think, in that, except when we *intend* to

>communicate with someone, our systems are not sending out

>signals from an NT central-processing function.

Maybe true but I have seen Autistics on this list behave in a very NT

way and clique together in order to fight anyone that disagrees with

their view on things.

>But NTs *do* send out those signals. The ability to do so

>must have evolved over a very long time (as it did in all

>the animals I know about) so that the individual members of

>the species could become mutually supporting in this way.

>For two NTs, person A's signals are a reassurance for B and

>B's signals are a reassurance for A. And they don't even need

>to know each other. The cashier at the grocery store gives

>off signals to her customers, and the customers give off

>signals to the cashier. This is like the way two cats signal

>to one another with ears and tails, whether they know each

>other well or not. It's just natural to the species. They

>literally can't help doing it. Nor can NT humans.

>

>Jane (having enjoyed reading Jeanette's essay and

>responding with one of her own because it's interesting

>to talk about this stuff)

>

Again I repeat that this group has in the past attacked me for my

views. You have accepted Clay into your Clique so he is allowed to

insult me and say what he wants. When I tried to defend myself I was

the one that got the crap. I am sorry but you can't have it both

ways. You either act like an individual and accept that Clay was

wrong in what he said. Not in the fact that he was expressing on

opinion, but was slating my group and insulting. That to me is

totally wrong especially with a man who should be older and wiser

than myself. Cheap tactics like Insults mean CLAY lost the fight.

It means that he already had given up. Because when you have to

result to flaming you really are saying that you can't think of

anything intellectual to back up the argument.

He still has not replied to my excellent post to him. Because its

true. Some said get a grip. That means that they really have not

bothered to read the valid points I raised.

There is only one person who needs to get a grip and thats CLAY.

Because he thinks he can insult. Any time he wants to try real

insults out I will be happy to take him into a chat room and show him

how its done.

What makes me madder is the fact that he tries to make out he was not

insulting when its so blatantly obvious that he was.

Steve

My Aspergers Groups

http://www.geocities.com/chemerelite

http://clix.to/chemer

[Guest guest]

At 07:38 PM 9/13/2003 +0100, you wrote:

>Its a bit like a clique here. I have noticed that I came here as an

>outsider and have been treated as such.

I didn't come here as an " insider "

I have no affiliation with anyone here

there is no one here that is my friend...

I can't categorize my " treatment " as being one of an " insider " , " outsider "

or anything else, my focus isn't there

even in real life it can take years to realize how I'm being " treated " by

someone or a group

> Just cause I was booted by

> for having a certain point of view DOESN'T MEAN I SHOULD BE

>TREATED AS SUCH HERE. We all have varying levels of AS or Autism and

>as such that should be taken into account. Some people are very high

>functioning and almost NT.

>

>I see where you are coming from. I myself posted some good prose

>here on bullying. But my help was refused and ignored by others.

>Even to the very NT way of skipping my posts and talking to others

>about bullying and not even acknowledging my prose.

I recently acknowledged your bullying post.

Have you acknowledged anything I have posted recently?

In fact, according to the archives you were not ignored

I don't believe joining lists obligates one to ever post about anything.

silence does not mean you're being ignored, at least not by me.

I am sorry but you can't have it both

>ways. You either act like an individual and accept that Clay was

>wrong in what he said. Not in the fact that he was expressing on

>opinion, but was slating my group and insulting.

or......?

>That to me is

>totally wrong especially with a man who should be older and wiser

>than myself. Cheap tactics like Insults mean CLAY lost the fight.

>It means that he already had given up. Because when you have to

>result to flaming you really are saying that you can't think of

>anything intellectual to back up the argument.

what about:

" Hi Clay,

Firstly I would like to say that you will never make a super Aspie as

you are stodgy and wet and full of yourself just like a big lump of

clay and basically if you tried to fly you would never get your ass

off the ground.

Steve "

> Some said get a grip. That means that they really have not

>bothered to read the valid points I raised.

ONE said ... roughly that

>There is only one person who needs to get a grip and thats CLAY.

>Because he thinks he can insult. Any time he wants to try real

>insults out I will be happy to take him into a chat room and show him

>how its done.

we've all seen it already

>What makes me madder is the fact that he tries to make out he was not

>insulting when its so blatantly obvious that he was.

any thoughts on my " respecting & offending " post?

>Steve

-jypsy

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

[Guest guest]

Gail wrote:

>The other cashiers did not get this kind of feedback even though they would

>say the same thing. Even people I see in other contexts have this reaction

>to my telling them to have a nice day, like I just gave them a hundred

>dollars or something. It always puzzled me. Now I wonder if maybe they can

>tell that when I say it I mean it, and that is why they appreciate it so

>much?

I think you're right about that.

Jane

[Guest guest]

>At 07:38 PM 9/13/2003 +0100, you wrote:

>

>>Its a bit like a clique here. I have noticed that I came here as

an

>>outsider and have been treated as such.

>

>I didn't come here as an " insider "

>I have no affiliation with anyone here

>there is no one here that is my friend...

>I can't categorize my " treatment " as being one of an " insider " ,

> " outsider "

>or anything else, my focus isn't there

>even in real life it can take years to realize how I'm being

> " treated " by

>someone or a group

>

I am sorry I must of generalised from the behaviour that has

manifested itself here.

>>Just cause I was booted by

>> for having a certain point of view DOESN'T MEAN I SHOULD BE

>>TREATED AS SUCH HERE. We all have varying levels of AS or Autism

>>and

>>as such that should be taken into account. Some people are very

>>high

>>functioning and almost NT.

>>

>>I see where you are coming from. I myself posted some good prose

>>here on bullying. But my help was refused and ignored by others.

>>Even to the very NT way of skipping my posts and talking to others

>>about bullying and not even acknowledging my prose.

>

>I recently acknowledged your bullying post.

>Have you acknowledged anything I have posted recently?

>In fact, according to the archives you were not ignored

>I don't believe joining lists obligates one to ever post about

>anything.

>silence does not mean you're being ignored, at least not by me.

>

I am sorry I never saw your reply to my bullying post. Maybe the mail

is slow or something, bit like the real thing

Your right and thats a good point that you made.

By the way nice article on the treatment of Aspies by the medical

profession.

>I am sorry but you can't have it both

>>ways. You either act like an individual and accept that Clay was

>>wrong in what he said. Not in the fact that he was expressing on

>>opinion, but was slating my group and insulting.

>

>or......?

>

Well its no good going on about how NT people treat them when they

themselves act in the same fashion.

>>That to me is

>>totally wrong especially with a man who should be older and wiser

>>than myself. Cheap tactics like Insults mean CLAY lost the fight.

>>It means that he already had given up. Because when you have to

>>result to flaming you really are saying that you can't think of

>>anything intellectual to back up the argument.

>

>what about:

> " Hi Clay,

>Firstly I would like to say that you will never make a super Aspie

as

>you are stodgy and wet and full of yourself just like a big lump of

>clay and basically if you tried to fly you would never get your ass

>off the ground.

>Steve "

>

That was after he insulted me first. I hit back with as good as I

get.

>>Some said get a grip. That means that they really have not

>>bothered to read the valid points I raised.

>

>ONE said ... roughly that

>

I think that the insult itself doesn't say much for the person that

gave it. I think they totally missed the point and sounded very NT

to me.

>

>>There is only one person who needs to get a grip and thats CLAY.

>>Because he thinks he can insult. Any time he wants to try real

>>insults out I will be happy to take him into a chat room and show

>>him

>>how its done.

>

>we've all seen it already

>

>

>>What makes me madder is the fact that he tries to make out he was

>>not

>>insulting when its so blatantly obvious that he was.

>

>any thoughts on my " respecting & offending " post?

>

Well at least you make valid points. With Clay I always have the

advantage, but with a keen mind such as yours its a different ball

game.

Steve

My Aspergers Groups

http://www.geocities.com/chemerelite

http://clix.to/chemer

[Guest guest]

Chemer wrote:

> This group is very much like that. Outsiders who express views

> different to Clay are flamed.

Take some responsibility, Steve. It's not " people that express views

different to Clay " that are causing the trouble; it is just you doing

that.

> Same as this group. People bounce off prose off and Clay and

> anyone who disagrees with them is fair game.

Oh, if only you had the slightest clue. I am not going to rehash

history here, but I can tell you that my own personal loyalties would

have me remove from the list if I were playing the popularity

contest game. I won't do that, though, because I only judge people here

by what they write on this list-- and that includes you.

No one on this list is judging you because of their allegiance to anyone

else; it is just a poor excuse you are using to try to explain away why

you're not being well-received here. I am really tired of it, and I

have put up with it too long already. I am going to moderate your posts

again, and I am going to deny any posts that are personal attacks or any

more of this whiny bickering. Last time, I took you off moderated

status after a few days; I really do not want to moderate anyone, but

you just can't stop filling the lists with your nonsense, so I am going

to stop it. Yes, I know what Clay wrote, and it is not any

justification to start filling the list with your vitriol. Clay has

posted a few minor barbs, but he shows a sense of proportion. You

don't, so until you can learn to do so, I will do it for you.

> Not facial expressions here but expressions such as " Get A Grip " just

> proves my point.

Either that, or it proves that people think that you need to get a grip.

> Its a bit like a clique here. I have noticed that I came here as an

> outsider and have been treated as such. Just cause I was booted by

> for having a certain point of view DOESN'T MEAN I SHOULD BE

> TREATED AS SUCH HERE. We all have varying levels of AS or Autism and

> as such that should be taken into account. Some people are very

> high functioning and almost NT.

You are being treated as you are here because you continually insist on

making an ass of yourself. Normally I would not want to use such

insulting language to one of the list members, but nothing seems to get

through your wall of defensiveness. People tell you (and have on many

occasions, in several different ways) that you are making an ass of

yourself, and you make excuses about it being clique behavior or

something like that.

Aside from the people I personally invited to start this list in 2001,

nearly every person on here came to this list the same way that you

have... as a stranger to me and generally a stranger to the other list

members. I never knew or Clay before they came here, or any

other of the regular posters, for that matter. Further, the people I

personally invited in 2001 were people I got to know from other mailing

lists or web fora online-- the same that anyone has gotten to know you.

Stop blaming cliques for the way you are being treated, and accept that

people are doing so because you are really annoying the hell out of them

with your constant whining and personal attacks. I have been unduly

tolerant of your posts, but I have had all I can stomach at this point.

There have only been two other posters that have generated as many

complaints as you have, and one of them was the only person I have ever

had to remove from the list. The other left of his own volition.

> I see where you are coming from. I myself posted some good prose

> here on bullying. But my help was refused and ignored by others.

> Even to the very NT way of skipping my posts and talking to others

> about bullying and not even acknowledging my prose.

It is more NT to acknowledge posts without having anything to add than

it is autistic. I have posted things here before and gotten little or

no feedback, but that does not mean that no one appreciated the post. I

simply cannot accurately assume that. Assuming that a lack of response

means that no one cares would be a very NT thing-- they call that

" reading between the lines. " Autistic people post when they have

something to say, and acknowledging posts for its own sake is not

necessarily " something to say. " If you are going to try to use NT

behavior as an insult, at least learn what NT behavior is.

> But in this group its a social clique. Like it or not some people

> bandy together and feel threatened by anyone that thinks differently

> from them.

I have debated with Jeanette, Jypsy (on the other list), and Jane (also

on the other list) recently (all females whose names begin with J...

hmm), and it can be safely assumed that I think a lot differently than

they do, and they think a lot differently than I do. They're not

threatened by me and I am not threatened by them. We all think

differently, Steve... look at all of the disagreement that takes place

here. I am pretty opinionated and blunt in the way I put my opinions,

but no one seems to be threatened by it. Disagreements are normal; they

are part of any email list, certainly. It's just that no one else makes

it personal like you do. No one else, in the history of this list, has

made a long, detailed post entirely designed to discredit another

member, as you have in your post " . "

> Maybe true but I have seen Autistics on this list behave in a very NT

> way and clique together in order to fight anyone that disagrees with

> their view on things.

No, you haven't. That is your misinterpretation of it, but that is not

accurate.

> Again I repeat that this group has in the past attacked me for my

> views. You have accepted Clay into your Clique so he is allowed to

> insult me and say what he wants.

I have reprimanded Clay for attacking you twice, if I recall. If you

wonder why he has not gotten the attention you have for the things he

has written of you, I will tell you. His attacks are less obnoxious

than yours; they are often witty and they do not have the meanness that

yours do. He also does not go on, and on, and on, the way that you do.

He says his piece and gets on with life, instead of dwelling on it and

continually bringing it up again, and again, and again. If you cannot

tell the difference, then take my word for it; there is a difference.

> When I tried to defend myself I was

> the one that got the crap. I am sorry but you can't have it both

> ways. You either act like an individual and accept that Clay was

> wrong in what he said. Not in the fact that he was expressing on

> opinion, but was slating my group and insulting. That to me is

> totally wrong especially with a man who should be older and wiser

> than myself. Cheap tactics like Insults mean CLAY lost the fight.

The loser of the fight is the person that has to wade through all of the

spam that the Clay-Steve bickering causes. If you want to insult Clay,

don't drag the whole list into it.

> It

> means that he already had given up. Because when you have to result

> to flaming you really are saying that you can't think of anything

> intellectual to back up the argument.

That group has nothing to do with this one... if you or Clay wish to

discuss it, do it elsewhere. The things that go on in another list

should not be discussed outside of that list. It is a violation of

netiquitte and is generally bad form.

> He still has not replied to my excellent post to him.

And I thank him for that. Trust me when I tell you that the majority of

the list is tired of it.

> There is only one person who needs to get a grip and thats CLAY.

> Because he thinks he can insult. Any time he wants to try real

> insults out I will be happy to take him into a chat room and show him

> how its done.

Yes, you have a very bright future ahead of you with that as your big

talent. You have not described any talent other than the ability to

generate insults, but that's OK! Companies across the nation are, I am

sure, hurrying to recruit you to insult people in chat rooms. There is

really quite a shortage of people that can get in a good online 'burn'

these days, and that can mean big money for you! You can look forward

to a great salary, medical and dental, as well as a nice 401-k and an

expense account (to take care of those business appointments with people

that need to be insulted... appointments that take place in fine

restaurants! Get out your lobster bib). Of course, this would mean

coming to the US, as the insulting-people-in-chat-rooms market has many

more opportunities in places like New York City than in genteel

England. It would be simple; instead of a resumé, you can send a

transcript of you insulting someone in a chat room-- which, to hear you

describe it, surely is a sight to behold! Of course, you may have to

demonstrate the insulting ability during the interview; perhaps you

could get Clay to come along and act as your target, so you can stand

there and insult him for a while to show off your incredible talent. I

am sure there will be a standing ovation, maybe people doing the wave in

the audience. Yes, as I have said before, your ability to insult people

is truly a talent of which you should brag!

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>Yes, you have a very bright future ahead of you with that as your big

>talent. You have not described any talent other than the ability to

>generate insults, but that's OK!

, are you being serious or sarcastic? I think you are being sarcastic, but

I'm not sure.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>

> Yes, you have a very bright future ahead of you with that as your big

> talent. You have not described any talent other than the ability to

> generate insults, but that's OK! Companies across the nation are, I am

> sure, hurrying to recruit you to insult people in chat rooms. There is

> really quite a shortage of people that can get in a good online 'burn'

> these days, and that can mean big money for you! You can look forward

> to a great salary, medical and dental, as well as a nice 401-k and an

> expense account (to take care of those business appointments with people

> that need to be insulted... appointments that take place in fine

> restaurants! Get out your lobster bib). Of course, this would mean

> coming to the US, as the insulting-people-in-chat-rooms market has many

> more opportunities in places like New York City than in genteel

> England. It would be simple; instead of a resumé, you can send a

> transcript of you insulting someone in a chat room-- which, to hear you

> describe it, surely is a sight to behold! Of course, you may have to

> demonstrate the insulting ability during the interview; perhaps you

> could get Clay to come along and act as your target, so you can stand

> there and insult him for a while to show off your incredible talent. I

> am sure there will be a standing ovation, maybe people doing the wave in

> the audience. Yes, as I have said before, your ability to insult people

> is truly a talent of which you should brag!

>

>

,

Thank you for that paragraph. It's very Monty Python-esque, and thinking

about it will keep me entertained for most of the day ).

[Guest guest]

Jeanette wrote:

> wrote:

>

> > Yes, you have a very bright future ahead of you with that as your

> > big talent. You have not described any talent other than the

> > ability to generate insults, but that's OK!

>

> , are you being serious or sarcastic? I think you are being

> sarcastic, but I'm not sure.

I had hoped that it was so sarcastic that it was obvious. Did I do the

same thing that I said Jypsy was doing?

I generally don't go off on people like that, but Steve really was

getting on my last nerve. Sometimes being harsh with someone is the

only way to get the messge through.

[Guest guest]

At 02:51 PM 9/16/2003 -0700, you wrote:

>Jeanette wrote:

>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Yes, you have a very bright future ahead of you with that as your

> > > big talent. You have not described any talent other than the

> > > ability to generate insults, but that's OK!

> >

> > , are you being serious or sarcastic? I think you are being

> > sarcastic, but I'm not sure.

>

>I had hoped that it was so sarcastic that it was obvious. Did I do the

>same thing that I said Jypsy was doing?

:x

-jypsy

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

[Guest guest]

It did sound sarcastic to me, but I wasn't 100% sure, since it was so long. I

also did not assume you were being sarcastic, since you usually say so- and who

knows? May be you were trying to give him a positive to counter act his

negative.

You have a unique way of thinking, so all NT assumptions that I make on other

lists are gone here. On this list, I don't assume anything, including what a

person means when using certain words. They all mean something slightly

different to different people, even NTs.

That's why I always ask people what they mean by X.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Jeanette

Re: Thoughts on NT Communication for AS and

Auties

Jeanette wrote:

> wrote:

>

> > Yes, you have a very bright future ahead of you with that as your

> > big talent. You have not described any talent other than the

> > ability to generate insults, but that's OK!

>

> , are you being serious or sarcastic? I think you are being

> sarcastic, but I'm not sure.

I had hoped that it was so sarcastic that it was obvious. Did I do the

same thing that I said Jypsy was doing?

I generally don't go off on people like that, but Steve really was

getting on my last nerve. Sometimes being harsh with someone is the

only way to get the message through.