Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 --- Anas wrote: > A person on the spectrum may find it very difficult > to be able to > understand how he/ she is regarded by others in > daily social human > contact. > I was thinking that surely when the means of > communication is other > than the spoken word, eg. electronically, then this > inability should > still exist. Therefore lists such as this one, > should in theory, > create even more confusion and misunderstanding. ----Actually, I think the opposite, that the written form of communication at least enables us to communicate and even socialize more. (If I attempted to engage in the same amount of in person conversations a day that I do in email, I'd need three days to recuperate! ) As far as disagreements go, that's bound to happen anywhere where a a wide variety of people gather. > Also due to the fact that we have been unknowingly > thrown into a > world of people who inadvertantly `speak a foriegn > language', this > alien intergration will cause subtle or incredible > character flaws in > the `alien' who is oblivious to his/ her > `strangeness'. > I believe it is quite amazing that this list runs as > congenially as > it does. > Or maybe I'm just confusing myself again? > > Anas --------I don't know....I've been on autism lists for about four years now, and sure, miscommunications occur, like anywhere, but I also think there's just a lot of differences in personalities and viewpoints. Writing still seems to be the most effective mode of communication for us, and, the most fulfilling, for some. Nanne > > I'VE BEEN... > > I've been living here for 35 years > It seems like it's been less than half a day > I'm like a wide-eyed child, stranded, left in fear > So many strangers, I don't know what to say > > I've been looking at the people around me > They're so typical > I think they're rather funny > They're not the sort of people I think I'd like to > be > And I'm not sure who I'd really like to be > > I've been wandering round trying to feel at home > As soon as I sit down, I feel I want to go > I want to tell the world > I think that they should know > But I really don't think they really want to know > > I've been crying now for 35 long years > If not for me then for everybody else > Every time I lookup, I don't see too much help > The world is only interested in themselve's > > I've been laughing now for less than half a day > They want to change me and make me just like them > I'm not happy but I'm happy being this way > If I gave them a mirror that would be the best way > of answering > > I've been thinking about the best path to take > I'm a clear sign that no-one truly belongs > This world is false and it's admirers are fake > And the best way is commitment to be strong > > Anas > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Anas wrote; >I was thinking that surely when the means of communication is other >than the spoken word, eg. electronically, then this inability should >still exist. Therefore lists such as this one, should in theory, >create even more confusion and misunderstanding. I agree with Nanne that communicating in writing is much easier. Besides being less exhausting, written conversation does not have the huge amoung of non- verbal content that NTs pour into their in-person contacts. Experts say that more than half of what is communicated through in-person speech is conveyed non-verbally. That's the part most of us (autistics) don't get. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Cerulean wrote: > ----Actually, I think the opposite, that the written form of > communication at least enables us to communicate and even socialize > more. (If I attempted to engage in the same amount of in person > conversations a day that I do in email, I'd need three days to > recuperate! ) As far as disagreements go, that's bound to happen > anywhere where a a wide variety of people gather. Truly. For me, disagreements are what make interaction interesting. I see language as a medium for the exchange of ideas; if there is no conflict in ideas (and by this I also mean the conflict between a non-connotative kind of ignorance [in other words, just not knowing something] and previously-unheard ideas), then there is little reason to communicate. This is why I find chit-chat so distasteful; it is communication where there is no conflict of ideas. Language is a medium for exchange of knowledge and fact, and for testing ideas against the facts known by others. When I go to my mother's house, I end up spending many hours debating things with her significant other. There is little doubt in my mind that this guy is on the spectrum, and he clearly thinks in a manner similar to mine. He also seems to think that language is a tool for handling a conflict of ideas; he has the same bent toward debate, and a preference for technical correctness over harmonious coexistence, as do I. My mother, NT, is irritated by our constant debates, and she often mistakes them for " nastiness, " hard feelings, or whatever. She is constantly trying to get in between us and stop our " fighting, " when it is abundantly clear to both of us (but not my mom) that we are enjoying the sparring of ideas. She thinks she is protecting each of us from being annoyed by the other, but the fact is that she is, in fact, the annoying factor for both of us when she does that. For my mother, getting along is more important than ideas. To me, it is the opposite. And, in case anyone thinks that I am trying to say that ASD folks like to debate and NTs don't... I'm not. Some ASD folks are like my mom, trying to stop the debate, and some NTs like to debate ideas as much as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 I am sure that alot of spectrum people can decipher quite a lot of non verbal language. Even if they are extremely limited, knowing just one extra clue such as angry arm flapping, or raised voice etc is one more piece of information than one would not get from pure text. I have seen a fair amount of misunderstandings in this list recently, which maybe would not have arisen if more information was given. Nanne responded thus: >the written form of > communication at least enables us to >communicate and even socialize more. (If I attempted >to engage in the same amount of in person >conversations a day that I do in email, I'd need three >days to recuperate! I agree completely. I do not doubt that for most of us, writing is an easier (energy wise) option, but it is still nonetheless not as effective as it lacks depth (information). And thus: >I don't know....I've been on autism lists for >about four years now, and sure, miscommunications >occur, like anywhere, but I also think there's just a >lot of differences in personalities and viewpoints. I'm just suggesting that any group of people with an 'abused' history will exhibit a greater spectrum of 'personalities and viewpoints.' So in my opinion, I think that sometimes, maybe, we should be more understanding, knowing that for some, even text has its hidden messages. Because it is obvious to me that some people do not read what the majority read. Anas 'Let's get high on heavy reality, it has the power to consolidate' Xenoruh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 I have to agree. All language is symbolic. We have no problem learning and understanding the rules associated with the symbols, written, verbal, body language, etc. The real problem is that NTs don't always follow the rules - they don't always say what they mean, etc. They also tend to mismatch their verbal & non-verbal messages, sometimes deliberately. Colin. Re: Personality Quirks > I am sure that alot of spectrum people can decipher quite a lot of > non verbal language. Even if they are extremely limited, knowing just > one extra clue such as angry arm flapping, or raised voice etc is one > more piece of information than one would not get from pure text. I > have seen a fair amount of misunderstandings in this list recently, > which maybe would not have arisen if more information was given. > > Nanne responded thus: > >the written form of > > communication at least enables us to > >communicate and even socialize more. (If I attempted > >to engage in the same amount of in person > >conversations a day that I do in email, I'd need three > >days to recuperate! > > I agree completely. > I do not doubt that for most of us, writing is an easier (energy > wise) option, but it is still nonetheless not as effective as it > lacks depth (information). > > And thus: > >I don't know....I've been on autism lists for > >about four years now, and sure, miscommunications > >occur, like anywhere, but I also think there's just a > >lot of differences in personalities and viewpoints. > > I'm just suggesting that any group of people with an 'abused' history > will exhibit a greater spectrum of 'personalities and viewpoints.' > > So in my opinion, I think that sometimes, maybe, we should be more > understanding, knowing that for some, even text has its hidden > messages. Because it is obvious to me that some people do not read > what the majority read. > > Anas > > 'Let's get high on heavy reality, it has the power to consolidate' > Xenoruh > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Message: 1 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:44:35 -0000 Subject: Personality Quirks A person on the spectrum may find it very difficult to be able to understand how he/ she is regarded by others in daily social human contact. I was thinking that surely when the means of communication is other than the spoken word, eg. electronically, then this inability should still exist. Therefore lists such as this one, should in theory, create even more confusion and misunderstanding. Also due to the fact that we have been unknowingly thrown into a world of people who inadvertantly `speak a foriegn language', this alien intergration will cause subtle or incredible character flaws in the `alien' who is oblivious to his/ her `strangeness'. I believe it is quite amazing that this list runs as congenially as it does. Or maybe I'm just confusing myself again? Anas This is the first time in my life that i have seen that someone would regard me as having a character " flaw " due to AS. Actually rl I am regarded as being of good character. I am not perfect, but I do not do many of the offensive things that happen around me. I do feel that the responses and attitudes of many people are strange. i dont attribute that to character flaws. I would hope that nobody thinks my differences are flaws either. Actually, I am hurt that someone on a support list would make such a generalization. I suspect that autistic people are like everyone else. Most will be basically good people, some will be awful. I think anyone who could make that accusation is remarkably lacking in self awareness of her own character flaws, but I would not take that to mean that this person is a flawed person, just perhaps unacustomed to reflective thought. The other possibility is that the author is really a flawed person and is overgeneralizing. In my experience, most AC are very peaceful, law abiding people. If anyone goes to a foreign country, they do not become flawed characters just because they do not speak the language or understand the customs. They become strangers, and often receive lots of help and support. Grrr. __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 --- gprobertson@... wrote: > > > This is the first time in my life that i have seen > that someone would regard me as having a character > " flaw " due to AS. Actually rl I am regarded as > being of good character. I am not perfect, but I do > not do many of the offensive things that happen > around me. I do feel that the responses and > attitudes of many people are strange. i dont > attribute that to character flaws. I would hope > that nobody thinks my differences are flaws either. > Actually, I am hurt that someone on a support list > would make such a generalization. I suspect that > autistic people are like everyone else. Most will > be basically good people, some will be awful. I > think anyone who could make that accusation is > remarkably lacking in self awareness of her own > character flaws, but I would not take that to mean > that this person is a flawed person, just perhaps > unacustomed to reflective thought. The other > possibility is that the author is really a flawed > person and is overgeneralizing. In my experience, > most AC are very peaceful, law abiding people. > > If anyone goes to a foreign country, they do not > become flawed characters just because they do not > speak the language or understand the customs. They > become strangers, and often receive lots of help and > support. Grrr. > > ------That part flew right over my head when i first read it...but you're right; our glitches have nothing to do with 'character flaws'. I've spent the past few years trying to convince my own brain of this, after a lifetime of numerous people telling me otherwise. Good of you to point this out. Nanne > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 > > Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. > Download Now! > http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 > Date: Wed Sep 3, 2003 9:37 pm > Subject: RE: Personality Quirks > > This is the first time in my life that i have seen that someone would regard me as having a character " flaw " due to AS. Actually rl I am regarded as being of good character. I am not perfect, but I do not do many of the offensive things that happen around me. I do feel that the responses and attitudes of many people are strange. i dont attribute that to character flaws. I would hope that nobody thinks my differences are flaws either. > Actually, I am hurt that someone on a support list would make such a generalization. I suspect that autistic people are like everyone else. Most will be basically good people, some will be awful. > I think anyone who could make that accusation is remarkably lacking in self awareness of her own character flaws, but I would not take that to mean that this person is a flawed person, just perhaps unacustomed to reflective thought. The other possibility is that the author is really a flawed person and is overgeneralizing. In my experience, most AC are very peaceful, law abiding people. > If anyone goes to a foreign country, they do not become flawed characters just because they do not speak the language or understand the customs. They become strangers, and often receive lots of help and support. Grrr. < > Dear Grrr. At no `time in my life' have I ever suggested that character flaws are `due to AS'. I stated that this was due to `alien integration'. I myself had a myriad of problems being an AC being inadvertently brought up with NTs. Due to this unusual childhood and adolescents, my reasoning on certain matters was incorrect, simply because the NT information which I recieved was sometimes incompatible with my AS mind. This was greatly compacted since I assumed as they did, that we were all `speaking the same language.' I would sometimes look down on people, due to them not understanding me, or more likely feel inferior. These were my character flaws, created by ignorance of Autism not by Autism. `If anyone goes to a foreign country, they do' develop flawed characters if he or she `is oblivious to his/ her `strangeness'' Ie. If I go to Wales speaking English and the natives always insist on replying in Welsh, while I have it in my brain that they must be speaking an English which I cannot understand. I will only `receive lots of help and support' if someone recognises that a real problem exists along with a remedy. Someone (most likely me) is going to become confused or frustrated etc. This negative but understandable reaction may create flaws in ones character if not addressed at some time. It is known that if a child is sexually abused, he or she may grow up and likewise abuse. Another child in an identical situation will become a very balanced adult knowing clearly that abuse is wrong. Depending on a person's genetic makeup etc, a person will or will not become flawed, when exposed to unnatural stimuli. Maybe I have a very good reason to be generally very flawed in my character, but I am glad to say that I have not developed in such a way. Of course like every human being I do have a number of flaws. One flaw, which I have rid myself of and which most likely evolved due to my AS `alien integration' was a `talent' for answering back, after years of being speechless and feeling inadequate. I taught myself to make quick-fire replies to any and all prompts. I became so good that I would sound more irrelavant than the prompter when he said something foolish, which was more often than not. Also at no `time in my life' have I ever suggested that character flaws amassed by an Autistic child would cause him or her to become an `offensive' or otherwise bad person, that such flaws would cause them to be other than `very peaceful, law abiding people.' This is another inncorrect assumption. >lacking in self awareness of his own character flaws, >perhaps unacustomed to reflective thought. >The other possibility is that the author is really >a flawed person and is overgeneralizing. >lacking in self awareness of his own character flaws, >perhaps unacustomed to reflective thought. >The other possibility is that the author is really >a flawed person and is overgeneralizing. < I really do hope that no-one else read that which you read but rather they read that which I authored. Nevermind, electronic print, unlike spoken or written prose, is by nature cold and distant, and a negative one added to a negative one, will produce a double negative, while a negative one added to a positive one will produce a balanced neutral. Yours ANAS (Accustomed to Neuro-Atypical Sympathy) Anas (Arabic meaning; friend of mankind) >> >>Message: 1 >>Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:44:35 -0000 >>From: " Anas " <xenoruh@y...> >>Subject: Personality Quirks >> A person on the spectrum may find it very difficult to be able to understand how he/ she is regarded by others in daily social human contact. >> I was thinking that surely when the means of communication is other than the spoken word, eg. electronically, then this inability should still exist. Therefore lists such as this one, should in theory, create even more confusion and misunderstanding. >> Also due to the fact that we have been unknowingly thrown into a world of people who inadvertantly `speak a foriegn language', this alien intergration will cause subtle or incredible character flaws in the `alien' who is oblivious to his/ her `strangeness'. >> I believe it is quite amazing that this list runs as congenially as it does. >> Or maybe I'm just confusing myself again? >> Anas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 gprobertson@... wrote: > This is the first time in my life that i have seen that someone would > regard me as having a character " flaw " due to AS. I have seen this in a number of ASD people. I referred to it in one of my early articles as " NT eyes syndrome. " By the time many of our kind reach adulthood, we've been told that what we are, how we act, how we perceive the world, is wrong. So we grow up thinking that we are defective for being different. That is the way NTs see us (in general), and that is how many of us grow to see ourselves. I used to be one of those. Long before I was diagnosed, I hated myself for what I was. I had no official name for it, so I used the names that my NT classmates in school used... loser, nerd, spazz, and a whole lot that I don't want to post. I became very depressed, and I was working on screwing up the courage to kill myself when I finally tried Zoloft and recovered from the depression. I got my self-esteem back, and I began to accept that it was okay to be me. Two years after that, I discovered AS. I never associated " AS " with all of the negativity, because I liked what I was, different and weird as that was to everyone else, when I learned of AS. Some people, though, do not or cannot cast off the societal expectations so easily, and they begin to think of AS as an unwanted albatross on their backs. That is why people with AS may consider AS to be a flaw. There is a small subset of us that would rather be made NT and forget about all of this AS stuff. It's sad, because I value these people because of their AS, and they devalue themselves for the same reason. Ultimately, we all have to come to terms with who and what we are, and not all of us have gotten there. It is my hope that someday all of my kind will be happy to be what they are (not proud; being proud of having something one was born with makes no sense to me). Until then, I hope to help others like me to see that what they are is not all bad. Note please that I am not trying to diagnose or psychoanalyze anyone... this is just my take on why some people with AS consider AS to be a flaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 --- Klein wrote: There is a small subset > of us that would > rather be made NT and forget about all of this AS > stuff. It's sad, > because I value these people because of their AS, > and they devalue > themselves for the same reason. ------ I've had periodic feelings of wishing to be NT mostly for the following reasons: 1) to be able to experience a healthy loving relationship 2) to be financially stable/independent These feelings are a bit yin-yang, and come and go. Certainly being on the AS support lists has helped tremendously with being more at peace with who I am and less depression. I think when I begin painting again this will be stronger. People ask what happened and why I stopped, and explaining years of floundering and depression pre-AS discovery can be a way to educate about AS. Being 'in the arts', should, technically, have been smoother....people 'excuse' or feed off of artists as they are 'expected' to be 'a little off' or 'weird', but this was never satisfactory to me.... too many 'artsy' types try to be weird for weirdness sake..... I was always frustrated because I wanted people to know how I experienced things. Nanne > > Ultimately, we all have to come to terms with who > and what we are, and > not all of us have gotten there. It is my hope that > someday all of my > kind will be happy to be what they are (not proud; > being proud of having > something one was born with makes no sense to me). > Until then, I hope > to help others like me to see that what they are is > not all bad. > ------Yeah, I agree with the proud thing. I'm proud of me for how far I've come, even tho still struggling. AS just hurts when I'm yearning for human affection/understanding in relationship form. Nanne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 .... > for what I was. I had no official name for it, so I used the names that > my NT classmates in school used... loser, nerd, spazz, and a whole lot > that I don't want to post. I became very depressed, and I was working .... I became very depressed because of my experience in 9th grade. I was 14 years old at that time. I had just moved from another city into a junior high school consisting of 7th through 9th grade. To this day, I can still remember the full names of the verbal abusers. Some of them would imply that I was mentally retarded. They would also be annoyed because I didn't point my head toward them. This misalignment was due to legal blindness in my left eye. At night, I would cry myself to sleep. I was going through all this in the fall of 1969. About that time, Jackie de wrote a song which included the lyrics " ...you've got to try a little kindness and overlook the blindness... " . Even now, when I hear that song on the oldies stations, I am quite emotionally moved. Often, when I don't want to deal with the remembered emotions, I tune to another station for a few minutes until the record has finished playing. When I was in the sixth grade, a classmate behind me (I still remember his name.) painted 'tard' on the back of my art smock. What is a good way to deal with my 13-year-old son who uses the " daaaa... " expression used to imply the listener should already have known something? He said " It is just an expression. " . I told him I considered it to be quite rude and that it mocks traits of certain disabilities, including autism and mental retardation. Because of that, I asked him to discontinue its use. Getting back to what you said, you mentioned that classmate(s) addressed you as " spazz " . Please clarify. After I was 8 years old, my older brothers said the same of me. They said I had a " spasm " when they took away my toy that I didn't want them to have. In hindsight, I wonder if I had a meltdown because my territory was violated. I was considered to have " tantrums " until I was ten years old. Could these have been meltdowns or mini-meltdowns when I sensed I was being violated? Also, any insights from anyone else? Thanks, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 AndyTiedye wrote: > Others who have found oases of Aspie-friendly employment should speak up > as well. For the most part, academia is one. As a professor, you can be eccentric, you don't have to dress up, and you can pursue your own odd interests without worrying about whether they're increasing anyone's profit. There are no doubt a lot of spectrumites in academia; I've met some. An experience yesterday and today, though, wasn't good for me. As the only astronomer in town, it's an implicit part of my job to do the occasional public observing session at the campus observatory. I *HATE* doing this. If you advertise it ahead of time, you get all the stupid people calling you (e.g. two days ahead of time asking " Are you still doing it? " -- well, I'm no more prescient than the meteorologists, why don't you check the weather forecast??? and some kid calling " Are you looking at Mars? " -- that's what it says in big letters in the headline, dorkmeister!). All day yesterday I was stressing over whether it would be clear. On top of that, after my class that ended at 2:20, I hustled over to the observatory to meet a reporter from the local paper who wanted to do a story, who was going to meet me at 2:30. 2:40 comes and he hasn't shown up, and I'm not in a good mood and my work time is too valuable to sit around doing nothing waiting for people, so I leave. He calls me ten minutes later apologizing for being late. Anyway, we were going to start the session at 10 PM. So at 9 PM it's cloudy, so I go over there and put up the " Postponed " sign, and tell the security folks we aren't doing it (campus security is on the ground floor of the observatory building). So at 10 PM it's clear. But what are you going to do? At some point you have to make the decision, and what I didn't want to happen is for it to cloud over again and for a hundred people to be there and for me to have to say " Sorry, can't see anything! " So this morning at work, I find out that another professor and our dept. lab guy did go over there and open the obs. anyway last night. What happened to them was exactly what I feared -- lots of people there, 2/3 of the time couldn't see anything. I don't know how to feel about this, except that I *HATE* public observing sessions. I have to worry about people breaking the equipment or themselves by running into the equipment, and I have to answer the same questions over and over, and put up with people thinking they're really creative for making the same tired " Uranus " jokes we've heard a thousand times, and worrying whether I sound like a total geek when I answer a question and don't tell them what they want to hear. I'd eat my big toe if it meant I never had to do another public session. An aspect of this is that the night sky is something sacred and kind of private and relaxing for me, and I prefer to stargaze alone or with a few close friends, rather than being IN CHARGE for two hundred random people, including kids, with whom I don't deal well. So that's the rant for the day! Most of the time, academia is wonderful for my personality. Now if I were only in a field like Russian history that the public didn't give a damn about ... Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 > ....... > don't you check the weather forecast??? and some kid calling " Are you > looking at Mars? " -- that's what it says in big letters in the headline, > dorkmeister!). > Please don't use the " dork... " expression. I have had others say that in a negative way to me regarding my autistic traits. Please be sensitive. Thanks, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 starfleet7777 wrote: > >> something that you edited out: >> Others who have found oases of Aspie-friendly employment should speak up >> as well. > > but not this, which was part of Doug's response: >...... > > >>don't you check the weather forecast??? and some kid calling " Are >> >> >you > > >>looking at Mars? " -- that's what it says in big letters in the >> >> >headline, > > >>dorkmeister!). >> >> >> >Please don't use the " dork... " expression. I have had others say that >in a negative way to me regarding my autistic traits. Please be >sensitive. > >Thanks, Jim > > Ride the Music AndyTiedye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 AndyTiedye wrote: > Autism is part of the culture of the computer industry, > though it isn't usually acknowledged as such, being seen > just as part of the way computer geeks are. We also get > to telecommute in many cases. > Working from home makes me enormously more productive, and > it seems likely that it would solve the problems that many > others have reported with working in an office. > > Others who have found oases of Aspie-friendly employment > should speak up as well. My mind has very little ability for such things as Math, machinery, computers, or anything to do with technology. I have a savant-like ability with English and languages in general, and a lot of interest in history, geography, geology, anthropology, theology, and such. Oh, how I wish I could find something I could do at home and send it in! But no, for the last ten years, I've been working as a Home Health Aide, and it hasn't been too bad, as I only deal with one person at a time generally, and they don't mind at all if I seem to be a little odd. Currently, I work with 3 gentlemen who happen to be WWII vets and have Alzheimer's and/or Parkinson's. They (or their spouses) are appreciative of what I do, and I never have anyone telling me what to do or how to do it. I work entirely on my own, as I did when I used to paint houses for a living. Only 9 more years till retirement! (Yes, I do all the things imaginable under the heading of " personal care " , but they're the same things we all have to do for ourselves anyway.) Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 starfleet7777 wrote: > > don't you check the weather forecast??? and some kid calling " Are > you > > looking at Mars? " -- that's what it says in big letters in the > headline, > > dorkmeister!). > > > Please don't use the " dork... " expression. I have had others say that > in a negative way to me regarding my autistic traits. Please be > sensitive. Look -- I'm sure that every possible insult and pejorative has been applied to someone on this list (including me) some time in his/her life by someone. I'm not going to apologize for using a word like " dork " in a joking way -- i.e. joking about something I wish I could have said but didn't to someone none of us know. To me, it means " stupid " , which is exactly a word to describe the person calling me asking me if we were going to see Mars when all the publicity clearly indicated that Mars was the whole point of the matter. I've been called nerd, geek, and plenty of worse things; yet I sometimes apply those with pride to myself. Sometimes I'll even call myself " dork " when I do something kinda dumb. If you're so sensitive that one can't be expressive in speaking and writing in your presence, then I have no apologies. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Jim wrote: > Getting back to what you said, you mentioned that classmate(s) > addressed you as " spazz " . Please clarify. After I was 8 years > old, my older brothers said the same of me. They said I had > a " spasm " when they took away my toy that I didn't want them > to have. In hindsight, I wonder if I had a meltdown because > my territory was violated. I was considered to have " tantrums " > until I was ten years old. Could these have been meltdowns or > mini-meltdowns when I sensed I was being violated? > > Also, any insights from anyone else? > > Thanks, Jim Hi Jim, The " spazz " reference goes back to at least 1963, as far as I know, and it began as " spastic " , meaning un-coordinated or jerky. It was " all the rage " as a put-down when I was in my senior year of school. It evolved from the adjective as in, " He's so spastic! " to the noun form, " Oh, he's just a spazz. " I had 3 older sisters, and the closest in age was 4 years older. Beginning when I was about 3, she would love to " get me going " by sitting down near me and playing with one of my toys, (which I didn't usually mind), but she would pretend to be having such a great time with it,to try to get me to be jealous and want that toy. If I tried to take it from her, she'd have an excuse to hit me. Later, when I was about 11, I got a new Coronet bike with a battery-powered horn. She would beep that button every time she walked past the bike in the utility room. I didn't want her to run the battery down, so I would go after her every time, but by then I was closer to her in size, and I eventually made my point to her. But she was always trying to " get me going " . The one a year older than her was much more devious and manipulative. The oldest one was eight years older than me, and as such, was far too distant to be involved with me one way or the other. Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 At 07:56 PM 9/4/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Getting back to what you said, you mentioned that classmate(s) >addressed you as " spazz " . Please clarify. I recall my older brother and sister using the term I think it was one of those words in usage in the late 60's (in Canada anyway) I don't remember any specific meaning just a general negative connotation, a *name* to *call* someone for those into name calling short for " spastic " , same category as " retard " etc etc -jypsy ________________________________ Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome Autism Spectrum Resources www.PlanetAutism.com jypsy@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Clay wrote: > >I have a savant-like ability with English and languages >in general, > There must be some translation work out there. What languages do you know? > and a lot of interest in history, > >geography, > try the companies making navigation systems. >geology, > they might want to send you to Iraq > anthropology, theology, and such. Oh, how I wish >I could find something I could do at home and send it in! > Ride the Music AndyTiedye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 AndyTiedye wrote: > >I have a savant-like ability with English > >and languages in general, > > > There must be some translation work out there. > What languages do you know? I was once an excellent translator of German back in college. Got straight A's and was one of the top 2 or 3 in class. That was in the early 70's. Studied Arabic long enough to realize just how difficult it was. I've done some proof-reading, which is a natural to me, because misspelled words cannot get past me. They seem to be written in bold-type, and I always notice. There have been times when a word is spelled correctly, but incorrectly for the context they're being used for. My eye still catches it. > > and a lot of interest in history, > > geography, > try the companies making navigation systems. > > >geology, > > > they might want to send you to Iraq I doubt my resume as a housepainter and health aide would get me anywhere. And I definitely don't want to go to Iraq! I do wish I had gone the rest of the way in learning Arabic, they're paying big bucks for translators of that now. Clay > > anthropology, theology, and such. Oh, how I wish > >I could find something I could do at home and send it in! > > > > Ride the Music > > AndyTiedye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Hi, I agree " spazz " must refer to " spastic " , which is why it bothers me somewhat, being--literally--spastic. The connection to geekiness I can only guess. Perhaps their supposed clumsy, uncoordinated movements? I recall my older brother and sister using the term I think it was one of those words in usage in the late 60's (in Canada anyway) I don't remember any specific meaning just a general negative connotation, a *name* to *call* someone for those into name calling short for " spastic " , same category as " retard " etc etc -jypsy ________________________________ Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome Autism Spectrum Resources www.PlanetAutism.com jypsy@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 ...... > > What is a good way to deal with my 13-year-old son who uses > the " daaaa... " expression used to imply the listener should already > have known something? He said " It is just an expression. " . I told him > I considered it to be quite rude and that it mocks traits of certain > disabilities, including autism and mental retardation. Because of > that, I asked him to discontinue its use. > ...... Last night I thought of a good way to deal with it. The next time that I hear him use that expression, I will warn him that if I hear it again it would cost him some money - e.g. 25 cents. I just need to try to instill some respect in my two sons, etc. I can't let disrespect go unchecked. Thanks, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 > > The connection to geekiness I can only guess. Perhaps >their supposed clumsy, uncoordinated movements? To me, " geek " means someone who's really into an unusual, often academic, interest. For me, even for the more NT among e.g. the quiz bowl community, it's not necessarily an insult. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Clay wrote: >I was once an excellent translator of German >back in college. Got straight A's and was one >of the top 2 or 3 in class. That was in the >early 70's. ... > > Is your German still good enough to translate written material? I am on a quest for more information on the therapy that went on at Dr. Asperger's clinic in Vienna. Uta Frith's Autism and Asperger Syndrome contains an English translation of Dr. Asperger's original paper, and an introduction that gives a tantalizing glimpse into the clinic where Dr. Asperger did his research: The daily programme of play and lesons was lead by a remarkable woman, Sister Viktorine Zak. Asperger called her a genius. Her intuitive diagnostic skills and therapeutic effects as a teacher were legendary. One of Asperger's formative experiences, he reports, was witnessing Sister Viktorine calm a panic-striken toddler in the middle of a destructive tantrum. Sister Viktorine's programme started daily with a PE lesson, using rhythm and music. There were organized dramatic enactments of events or of songs. There were also proper school lessons and speech therapy. The pervading ethos was that the clinic's work should be governed by the wish to understand and help children. Tragically, Sister Viktorine was killed when the ward was destroyed by bombs in 1944.^1 From what I can see of it, most people missed the point of that research, which was not to divide autism up according to how well we function, but to find ways to help autistic kids function better. It must have been working (at least a lot better than whatever passed for therapy where Kanner was doing his research). The APA divides us up according to some arbitrary criteria, but they weren't around back then to send all the low-functioning patients to Kanner in the USA, and the higher-functioning ones to Asperger in Austria -- in the middle of World War II. I think we can assume that both clinics were sent similar patients, and we can look at the work of Asperger and Kanner together as a controlled study of the effectiveness of the therapy at Asperger's clinic. Looking at it that way, we really should know more about it than the few morsels that have been translated into English. Ride the Music AndyTiedye ^1 Uta Frith, Autism and Asperger Syndrome, pp 8-9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Newstead wrote: >The connection to geekiness I can only guess. Perhaps their supposed clumsy, uncoordinated movements? > > While not actually spastic, many of us have lousy coordination, particularly as kids, and get that label from other kids. Ride the Music AndyTiedye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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