Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Hi, I've often found it easier to get on with other victims of mainstream prejudice, although we're inevitaby a very diverse bunch. Many victims of bullying know how to act humbly and wait their turn when their explicit tormentors are exposed. I've long learned that explicit bullies suffer from a deep sense of inferiority and simply take it out on those at the bottom of the pecking order. Sooner or later such bullies get into trouble, but the root causes of their prejudice remain the same, for it is the smarmy implicit bullies who call the tune by simply acting cool and setting up a system of privileges. They revel in minor scuffles between thugs and nerds and may even feign passing compassion for the latter. Only when threatened would high-status implicit bullies, usually among the most popular kids in their class, resort to more overt abuse. It may seem ironic but IMHO the prime cause of today's bullying is an obsession with coolness, a game at which aspies are at a natural disadvantage. Neil PHAD People with High Functioning Autism: http://www.phad-fife.org.uk RE: Re: Bullying > Hi Louis. > > Are you mail or female? Sorry and not being rude but some are > calling you louise and some louis. > > Anyway your older brother sounds like a right waster. Anyone who > would pick on their own flesh and blood needs a good kicking. > > Anytime he would like to pick on an Aspie who will hit back just let > him know. > > Why he couldn't of treated you better is beyond me. After all its > one thing to have some fights, but quite another to physically harm > ones own blood. > > I found I got on better with Asians growing up and maybe that was > cause they were the outcasts at the time as well. So they sort of > looked up to me. > > Steve > > > My Aspergers Groups > > http://www.geocities.com/chemerelite > http://clix.to/chemer > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 had that problem, too; he was too uncoordinated to swing his crutches quickly, so he would just throw them down. Kids used to run by him and slap him in the back of the head, and then run back by and slap his forehead. He’d let them do it a couple of times so they believed that he wouldn’t do anything about it. It was on the forehead approach that he would nail them. His leg tendons are too tight, so he would sit back on his feet and put his hands on the ground in front of him, then when they got close enough, he would launch his upper body up with his hands and his legs would shoot him forward, and then he had them. He got a hold of me one time and tried to tickle me, I thought he was going to break my ribs! He had no idea of his strength. I know what you mean about confrontation, too. I am not good at verbal confrontations, even now. I cannot advocate for myself (too many years shutting up while I got yelled at so I wouldn’t be hit as well?) or unintelligible gibberish comes out of my mouth. I use the wrong vocabulary word, or I say things that they shouldn’t know, or I just sit there and smile agreeably and let them walk on me. Louis From: Newstead Hi, I hadn't thought of that--then again, I could rarely get close enough to them to grab them. They could usually dart away. I tried using my crutches as weapons, but the bully usually grabbed them. Mind you, I was very seldom hit. They used psychological torture to get to me--but I was not streetwise enough, nor facile enough mentally, to best them in verbal combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 The most detestable bullies IMHO are the ones who will go to elaborate lengths to set someone else up. Did you see the King movie “”? I have known bullies like that. I have been the victim of bullies like that. I wanted to kill them, maim them, I thought up all kinds of ways to mutilate them. These are the bullies that get shot in schools in our country – because their victims have had all they can take and it becomes a “them or me” survival thing. It becomes a question of “suicide, or homicide?” to these mentally ravaged kids. Bullying should definitely have a 100% no tolerance rating. I don’t want anyone turning my kids into raving lunatics with guns who can’t take anymore. Louis From: Neil Gardner I've often found it easier to get on with other victims of mainstream prejudice, although we're inevitaby a very diverse bunch. Many victims of bullying know how to act humbly and wait their turn when their explicit tormentors are exposed. I've long learned that explicit bullies suffer from a deep sense of inferiority and simply take it out on those at the bottom of the pecking order. Sooner or later such bullies get into trouble, but the root causes of their prejudice remain the same, for it is the smarmy implicit bullies who call the tune by simply acting cool and setting up a system of privileges. They revel in minor scuffles between thugs and nerds and may even feign passing compassion for the latter. Only when threatened would high-status implicit bullies, usually among the most popular kids in their class, resort to more overt abuse. It may seem ironic but IMHO the prime cause of today's bullying is an obsession with coolness, a game at which aspies are at a natural disadvantage. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 No, I didn't see the movie because I generally avoid the cinema, so I just wait until it's on TV and even then I tend to switch off if I can't relate to the main characters. I beg to differ on anti-bullying policies. They inevitably punish overt bullies and let smart-asses set up gullible individuals. My son was told off last year for bullying. His crime: calling a girl a " stinky pooh " because his playmate told him to. You can bet wee suffered much more (traumatised I think is the word) than , one of the most popular girls in his class. Bullying is a symptom of a much greater malaise, the notion that some people matter more than others, while categorically denying the existence of any hierarchy. Note our society's increasing obsession with superheroes, TV, pop and videogame idols.Witiness the way teachers, TV and even parents actively encourage to focus on presentation. No wonder a sizable minority simply cannot cope with this social rat race. By merely putting in place token anti-bullying policies, we're just letting the real bullies off the hook. They'll end up awarding themselves " Tolerance Certificates " for smiling at nerds. Neil RE: Re: Bullying The most detestable bullies IMHO are the ones who will go to elaborate lengths to set someone else up. Did you see the King movie " " ? I have known bullies like that. I have been the victim of bullies like that. I wanted to kill them, maim them, I thought up all kinds of ways to mutilate them. These are the bullies that get shot in schools in our country - because their victims have had all they can take and it becomes a " them or me " survival thing. It becomes a question of " suicide, or homicide? " to these mentally ravaged kids. Bullying should definitely have a 100% no tolerance rating. I don't want anyone turning my kids into raving lunatics with guns who can't take anymore. Louis From: Neil Gardner I've often found it easier to get on with other victims of mainstream prejudice, although we're inevitaby a very diverse bunch. Many victims of bullying know how to act humbly and wait their turn when their explicit tormentors are exposed. I've long learned that explicit bullies suffer from a deep sense of inferiority and simply take it out on those at the bottom of the pecking order. Sooner or later such bullies get into trouble, but the root causes of their prejudice remain the same, for it is the smarmy implicit bullies who call the tune by simply acting cool and setting up a system of privileges. They revel in minor scuffles between thugs and nerds and may even feign passing compassion for the latter. Only when threatened would high-status implicit bullies, usually among the most popular kids in their class, resort to more overt abuse. It may seem ironic but IMHO the prime cause of today's bullying is an obsession with coolness, a game at which aspies are at a natural disadvantage. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 So how can we protect ourselves from it, other than staying in our homes the rest of our lives? (Which I wouldn’t mind the least little bit.) Louis From: Neil Gardner Bullying is a symptom of a much greater malaise, the notion that some people matter more than others, while categorically denying the existence of any hierarchy. Note our society's increasing obsession with superheroes, TV, pop and videogame idols.Witiness the way teachers, TV and even parents actively encourage to focus on presentation. No wonder a sizable minority simply cannot cope with this social rat race. By merely putting in place token anti-bullying policies, we're just letting the real bullies off the hook. They'll end up awarding themselves " Tolerance Certificates " for smiling at nerds. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 --- Louise Gainor wrote: > So how can we protect ourselves from it, other than > staying in > our homes the rest of our lives? (Which I wouldn’t > mind the least > little bit.) > > Louis > ------Sarcasm and scorn, a quick wit, to hopefully shame them. In 4th grade a neighborhood punk pushed my son off his bike.......I stomped out to the street, called him over, got in his face, spoke loudly " What the bleep is the matter with you? Do you find this fun? Do you have no imagination in your head in which to entertain yourself? " Not exactly scorn, but it baffled him.... I rented " The Color Purple " again for my son to see. It's good to remember the scene, after Celie has had ENOUGH and is about to leave with Shug, and Albert is about to pound her again, she extends her arm with her two fingers bent and 'hexes' him ('Until you do right by me, everything you touch will fail') I propose we learn how adopt some spookily voodoo looking gestures..... Nanne > From: Neil Gardner > > Bullying is a symptom of a much greater malaise, the > notion that > some people > matter more than others, while categorically denying > the > existence of any > hierarchy. Note our society's increasing obsession > with > superheroes, TV, pop > and videogame idols.Witiness the way teachers, TV > and even > parents actively > encourage to focus on presentation. No wonder a > sizable minority > simply > cannot cope with this social rat race. By merely > putting in place > token > anti-bullying policies, we're just letting the real > bullies off > the hook. > They'll end up awarding themselves " Tolerance > Certificates " for > smiling at > nerds. > > Neil > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 That would be cool! People would really think we were nuts, but it would be fun. Facial expressions that even we would understand! LOL! I can be sarcastic and scornful, but a quick wit I am not. I always think of a clever comeback hours later. Sometimes I would like to call them up, give them the comeback, and hang up. Of course they wouldn't know what I was talking about by then. Louis From: Cerulean ------Sarcasm and scorn, a quick wit, to hopefully shame them. In 4th grade a neighborhood punk pushed my son off his bike.......I stomped out to the street, called him over, got in his face, spoke loudly " What the bleep is the matter with you? Do you find this fun? Do you have no imagination in your head in which to entertain yourself? " Not exactly scorn, but it baffled him.... I rented " The Color Purple " again for my son to see. It's good to remember the scene, after Celie has had ENOUGH and is about to leave with Shug, and Albert is about to pound her again, she extends her arm with her two fingers bent and 'hexes' him ('Until you do right by me, everything you touch will fail') I propose we learn how adopt some spookily voodoo looking gestures..... Nanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Hi, I don't know why you weren't bullied, but I'm happy that you weren't. I wasn't bullied as bad as some, never locked in a locker, but still the kids knew I was different and either ignored me or were mean, for the most part. It is also possible that if you were autistic to a certain extent (can't describe it exactly) that you missed some of the mean comments. My daughter missed some of the taunts thrown at her. She wasn't bothered too much, but she was bullied a tiny bit. She is always happy and also tiny (and uses a wheelchair). Camille > >So much of bullying goes on because only kids see it. > > > >It will go on, so long as the playground, and afterschool set up > >allows so many horrible children/adolescents unsupervised access to > >their victims. > > I'm not disagreeing (don't have enough knowledge on the > subject to argue about it), but it occurred to me, reading > your post, that I must be an exceptionally lucky person. > Maybe it's because I always was small and young-looking > for my age. And because my parents and older sisters > treated me in a way that made me unselfconscious and > cheerful. Plus, I didn't have that much experience with > groups of children (that I remember). > > Here are two experiences I do remember, though: > > When I was in third or fourth grade, in a new school > (for me). The girls in my class seemed (from my POV) > to divide themselves up into two groups based on > whether they wore patent-leather shoes or not. I did > not, so it did not suprise me that the girls who did > wear the shiny shoes ignored me entirely. I didn't > usually interact with my age peers, so it was a > surprise -- a pleasant surprise -- that the non- > patent-leather section of the girls explicitly > adopted me and integrated me into their kickball > games at recess, even though I was a rotten player. > That's the only recess time I remember from my > school years. A decade or so later, my awareness of > the world finally reached the point where I was able > to interpret that experience from another POV. The > girls who wore patent-leather shoes where " white " > and the girls who didn't wear patent-leather shoew > were " black. " It was the girls who were " white like > me " who rejected me, and it was the girls who were > " black " who took me under their wings. > > Second memory: The summer I was 12 years old. My > father had died the previous autumn and my mother > had to work fulltime, so she sent me to stay with > my oldest sister and her husband, who lived in > Chicago. I wandered around and discovered a play- > ground a few blocks from their apartment, on the > South Side (near Univ. of Chicago, where my b-in-l > was going to law school). There was fabulous > equipment in the playground: very HIGH swing sets > that also had a scary (wonderfully scary) slide pole > on it. Seesaws with springs that made them toss you > WAY up in the air, holding on to the handle for dear > life. All kinds of " high impact " stuff I'd never > seen before (or since). It fascinated me and drew > me to try it out. Although I had no social skills > at all and no abilty to " read " anyone else's > attitudes, I soon found myself " adopted " by some > of the kids there. They showed me how to use the > equipment and gave me turns. I was having a great > time there, and it was a haven from the discord in > my sister's marriage (which I didn't understand > at all). Alas, my brother-in-law discovred my > refuge and decreed that I was NEVER to go there > again. It was MUCH TOO DANGEROUS for me to be > associating with those inner-city kids. > > In both of those happy memories, there was no > adult presence at all (until my b-in-la stepped > in and ruined the second one). > > Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Hi , True, what you said about the need for adults to be interested. Really my point is that it's unnatural for so many kids to be together. It just gets the pack mentality going, in my opinion. Camille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 > True, what you said about the need for adults to be interested. > Really my point is that it's unnatural for so many kids to be > together. It just gets the pack mentality going, in my opinion. It doesn't have to be that way. I visualize a society in which the organizing principle around which kids learn to interact is not sports or combat, but dance. Ride the Music! AndyTiedye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 --On Monday, August 18, 2003 18:12 +0100 Chemer wrote: > Yes well when I was at The Special School the Dinner Ladies, what you > would call Duties now. Well they used to watch kids hit each other > all the time. I swear they took bets as to who won. In Mainstream > it was no different. The Teachers used to watch us as we fought and > then only broke it up at the end when someone got seriously hurt. > Even then they usually picked on the kid that lost. > > There is only one way to resolve this. What Mr Old my Headmaster at > the Special School did was put us in a ring with boxing gloves. If the boxing match was your idea, all well and good, but otherwise it just sounds like an attempt to elevate the bullying to a new level and give it official sanction. Was this manner of settling your differences something you bought into? Do you think they were taking bets on your bout? > Yes the bully got some good ones in but not before I smacked him over the > bench. In fact I remember thinking how weak he was. That was why he > needed a gang to protect him. The gang never touched me again and in > fact he lost all his members. They must of thought that he was a > wimp cause I beat him. I am sure that did wonders for your self-esteem, among other things. How would it have been if he had flattened you before you could touch him? That would have been a more likely outcome for most of us, including me, due to lousy reflexes and coordination. (If they'd lose the boxing gloves and lay down the wrestling mat, that's another story). > As bullies go there was only one I feared called Biz. Biz made my > life a living hell for 5 years. Although he also was my one and only > friend. I am attempting to reconcile the two above sentences. Perhaps you might like to help me out. > I feel sure had he not of been I would of fought back well > before the 5 years. Did your friendship with him afford you some level of protection from the other bullies there? > Anyway on the last day of School he stuck a > compass in my head and challenged me to a fight outside. This was > normal for BIZ he was always on about starting on me or some other > kid. However this was different I got so annoyed I simply gave him a > good hiding and 4 teachers had to drag me off. I can see that there is nothing simple about this. --On Monday, August 18, 2003 18:38 +0100 Chemer wrote: > Tyson is not that big a man yet he clobbered people taller than him. But not taller, faster, and better-coordinated than him. > Its all to do with how you view yourself. If you go in there to win > then you will. It was pronouncements like this that cured me of my native Aspie tendency to believe what I was told. I was told stuff like that over and over again by phys ed teachers, swimming instructors and various coaches. I believed it, and that belief went crashing into a solid wall of failure again and again until I can no longer believe anything without some kind of hard evidence. > If someone is taller than you then they get to hit you before you can reach them > then solar plexus normally works. It never did when they hit me there. I stim with my abs so they have always been ridiculously strong. They could not hurt me that way, and it was fun to watch (and feel) them try. This freaked some of them out a bit, one said " What's this? I hit him in the stomach and he's still smiling! " (and the kid who said that never gave me any shit after that). > Also upper cuts you need to twist and lock all your > muscles so that when you punch up you get them a good one. If you > imagine that they do not exist or they are glass when you punch your > brain will think that you are punching thin air and as such you will > hit them very hard. Hadn't heard of that one before you posted it on your list. Seems like you'd have to get in really close if you're much shorter. If I got that close I usually tried to wrestle them instead. > In short being short can in some ways be an advantage. Only in that I was seen as too small to gang up on. I suppose that counts for something. > Because its very hard to hit an object that is shorter than yourself. > Cause you have to punch downwards. Most bullies seem to have mastered this, since they hardly ever pick on someone bigger than they are. Ride the Music AndyTiedye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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