Re: Diabetes and The Dawn Phenomenon

[Guest guest]

I have heard of it, and it seems to be most common in long-term diabetics

usually on insulin, although it can happen to all of us. I think I heard

about it first on one of the Diabetes Health Talk series Diabetes Forecast

sponsors.

I cannot provide loads of details, however,

Rose Combs

rosecombs@...

Diabetes and The Dawn Phenomenon

Hi Everybody:

Has anybody heard of the " Dawn Phenomenon " ?

For years I have heard this phrase mentioned in relation to diabetes

but I was never quite sure what it was. I asked my doctor and two

of the diabetic educators that are currently working with me to get

situated with my insulin pump.

According to the info that I have gotten so far, the Dawn Phenomenon

occurs around 3am (dawn) when the blood sugar drops and the liver

kicks out glucose to counteract the drop in blood sugar, causing the

blood sugar to rise in the morning and makkng for a higher reading

when a fasting blood sugar is taken.

This weekend, I have been having some problems with high blood sugar

in the mornings. I have had two 180 & 200 readings and both of those

were fasting. I had eaten nothing for 12 - 16 hours prior to

checking. For the next four days, my educators are having me wake up

at 3am (Yawn !) and check my blood sugar and document the results so

that if need be, my pump can be adjusted.

Yesterday and today at 3am, I had readings of 40 and 53 then by 7am

on both days, that changed drastically, without eating or doing

anything.

Does anybody know anything about this phenomenon?

In the meantime, Iam going to look this up on the internet and

hopefully I can find some info that will explain this in more detail.

Diane

[Guest guest]

Yes, I get a pronounced dawn effect. My glucose can be 102 at midnight,

and with nothing to eat, it will be 140 at six when I'm up and around,

still on an empty stomach.

I used to be on Mitformin in the morning only, I have added it at night and

this helps. Even eating zero carbs after noon does not affect this, which

truly bothers me because the long term effects of mitformin are not

pleasant at all.

Dan

[Guest guest]

---Hi Dan:

I still dont understand the Dawn Phenomenon. I dont understand why

the liver cranks out glucose in the early morning hours when we are

up and moving around, without eating.

Do you know why this doesnt happen at other times of the day and

night, when the blood sugar drops and we really need the glucose to

prevent a hypoglycemic reaction?

This morning at 3am, my bs was 47, at 7am it was 177 and

unfortunately, I had not eaten anything since 3pm yesterday. Im

getting frustrated..ugh !

Diane the Curious one

In blind-diabetics@y..., The Scarlet Wombat <coconut@m...> wrote:

> Yes, I get a pronounced dawn effect. My glucose can be 102 at

midnight,

> and with nothing to eat, it will be 140 at six when I'm up and

around,

> still on an empty stomach.

>

> I used to be on Mitformin in the morning only, I have added it at

night and

> this helps. Even eating zero carbs after noon does not affect

this, which

> truly bothers me because the long term effects of mitformin are not

> pleasant at all.

>

> Dan

[Guest guest]

---Hi Rose:

Im glad that somebody else has heard of this.

Im going to search the Diabetes Forecast's archives to see if I can

find some info on this.

Thanks,

Diane

In blind-diabetics@y..., " Rose Combs " <rosecombs@q...> wrote:

> I have heard of it, and it seems to be most common in long-term

diabetics

> usually on insulin, although it can happen to all of us. I think I

heard

> about it first on one of the Diabetes Health Talk series Diabetes

Forecast

> sponsors.

>

> I cannot provide loads of details, however,

>

>

> Rose Combs

> rosecombs@q...

>

>

> Diabetes and The Dawn Phenomenon

>

>

> Hi Everybody:

> Has anybody heard of the " Dawn Phenomenon " ?

> For years I have heard this phrase mentioned in relation to diabetes

> but I was never quite sure what it was. I asked my doctor and two

> of the diabetic educators that are currently working with me to get

> situated with my insulin pump.

>

> According to the info that I have gotten so far, the Dawn Phenomenon

> occurs around 3am (dawn) when the blood sugar drops and the liver

> kicks out glucose to counteract the drop in blood sugar, causing

the

> blood sugar to rise in the morning and makkng for a higher reading

> when a fasting blood sugar is taken.

>

> This weekend, I have been having some problems with high blood sugar

> in the mornings. I have had two 180 & 200 readings and both of

those

> were fasting. I had eaten nothing for 12 - 16 hours prior to

> checking. For the next four days, my educators are having me wake

up

> at 3am (Yawn !) and check my blood sugar and document the results so

> that if need be, my pump can be adjusted.

> Yesterday and today at 3am, I had readings of 40 and 53 then by 7am

> on both days, that changed drastically, without eating or doing

> anything.

>

> Does anybody know anything about this phenomenon?

> In the meantime, Iam going to look this up on the internet and

> hopefully I can find some info that will explain this in more

detail.

>

> Diane

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Diane, The dawn phenomen they think is due to the fact that this time of day

is the time when most people have gone the maximun number of hours since

last eating. The bood sugar drops because of this and the liver puts out

glucogon to make the lowered blood sugar go up. Unfortunately, the body

often puts out more glucogon than you really need, sot he highter blood

sugar. I have been been having a lot of problems with that recently and am

having trouble getting the pump set to the correct amount of insulin to keep

the blood sugars at a consistant normal level. Last night, the blood sugar

was 205, so I took 1.t unit bolus. This morning, it was 230! Very

frustrating.

Re: Diabetes and The Dawn Phenomenon

---Hi Dan:

I still dont understand the Dawn Phenomenon. I dont understand why

the liver cranks out glucose in the early morning hours when we are

up and moving around, without eating.

Do you know why this doesnt happen at other times of the day and

night, when the blood sugar drops and we really need the glucose to

prevent a hypoglycemic reaction?

This morning at 3am, my bs was 47, at 7am it was 177 and

unfortunately, I had not eaten anything since 3pm yesterday. Im

getting frustrated..ugh !

Diane the Curious one

In blind-diabetics@y..., The Scarlet Wombat <coconut@m...> wrote:

> Yes, I get a pronounced dawn effect. My glucose can be 102 at

midnight,

> and with nothing to eat, it will be 140 at six when I'm up and

around,

> still on an empty stomach.

>

> I used to be on Mitformin in the morning only, I have added it at

night and

> this helps. Even eating zero carbs after noon does not affect

this, which

> truly bothers me because the long term effects of mitformin are not

> pleasant at all.

>

> Dan

[Guest guest]

Diane, your situation is very unusual, and any observations I have probably

do not apply to you. This is not a critecism, it is just my lack of

knowledge about people with super wide glucose swings as you have.

Your body gets used to sleeping and being inactive, so when you get up, any

activity at all, even being awake in bed with no physical activity, speeds

up the heart and begins to tone the muscles. The liver interprets this as

mild exercise and releases glycogen.

In your case, you get that huge change from the glycogen released, I get a

much less intense reaction, but it is still disconcerting.

Seems like you would do best with some kind of time release insulin that is

constantly jetting miniscule amounts into your system, but I do not really

understand type one very well.

If ever you have the money, look up and spend a week with K

Bernstein, he is the leading diabetes authority in the country. He uses

many techniques for type one diabetes, and has monumental success. He

takes a person through four days, I think, and it costs upwards of $3000,

but with the wide swings you have in your sugars, I think you could justify

the expense to whatever insurer you have.

Best,

Dan

[Guest guest]

--- Hi Dan:

Thank you for the information and for your response.

The insulin pump does work by giving me small doses of insulin every

hour on the hour. This is similar to a time released method of

insulin delivery. As oppossed to getting one large dose of insulin at

one time I get mini doses over an extended period.

I just need to get the number of units per hour perfected to keep my

blood sugar within a normal range at night time and during the wee

hours of the morning.

I had a real high reading this mornig of 340, I changed my infusion

site (the needle thats inserted into my skin) and since then, I have

stabilized to around 80. Hopefully the problem was the site itself,

I could have had an occlusion or been inserted into muscle or tissue

which was blocking the insulin's absorption.

I'll see what today brings.

Thanks again for the info,

Diane

In blind-diabetics@y..., The Scarlet Wombat <coconut@m...> wrote:

> Diane, your situation is very unusual, and any observations I have

probably

> do not apply to you. This is not a critecism, it is just my lack

of

> knowledge about people with super wide glucose swings as you have.

>

> Your body gets used to sleeping and being inactive, so when you get

up, any

> activity at all, even being awake in bed with no physical activity,

speeds

> up the heart and begins to tone the muscles. The liver interprets

this as

> mild exercise and releases glycogen.

>

> In your case, you get that huge change from the glycogen released,

I get a

> much less intense reaction, but it is still disconcerting.

>

> Seems like you would do best with some kind of time release insulin

that is

> constantly jetting miniscule amounts into your system, but I do not

really

> understand type one very well.

>

> If ever you have the money, look up and spend a week with K

> Bernstein, he is the leading diabetes authority in the country. He

uses

> many techniques for type one diabetes, and has monumental success.

He

> takes a person through four days, I think, and it costs upwards of

$3000,

> but with the wide swings you have in your sugars, I think you could

justify

> the expense to whatever insurer you have.

>

> Best,

>

> Dan

[Guest guest]

--- Hi !

How was the convention?

This dawn phenomenon is very frustrating !

Aside from the problem with the high morning hour blood sugars, I

think that my site was screwed up and I wasnt getting any insulin for

a few hours this morning..yikes. These past few days have not been

good ones.

I just talked to my diabetic educator and I asked her if I should

increase my basal rate from 12am - 6am by .2 units and she said, " Not

yet " . I have to get up again tomorrow morning at 3am and check and

if my bs is high again at 3am, she will increase my rate tomorrow.

What an ordeal and what a bumpy roller coaster ride.

Im tired and I dont feel good because of the high blood sugars. I

actually felt better with blood sugars in the 40 range...thats pretty

bad.

Be Well and Welcome Back,

Diane

In blind-diabetics@y..., " LaFrance Wolf " <plawolf@e...>

wrote:

> Diane, The dawn phenomen they think is due to the fact that this

time of day

> is the time when most people have gone the maximun number of hours

since

> last eating. The bood sugar drops because of this and the liver

puts out

> glucogon to make the lowered blood sugar go up. Unfortunately, the

body

> often puts out more glucogon than you really need, sot he highter

blood

> sugar. I have been been having a lot of problems with that

recently and am

> having trouble getting the pump set to the correct amount of

insulin to keep

> the blood sugars at a consistant normal level. Last night, the

blood sugar

> was 205, so I took 1.t unit bolus. This morning, it was 230! Very

> frustrating.

>

> Re: Diabetes and The Dawn Phenomenon

>

>

> ---Hi Dan:

> I still dont understand the Dawn Phenomenon. I dont understand why

> the liver cranks out glucose in the early morning hours when we are

> up and moving around, without eating.

> Do you know why this doesnt happen at other times of the day and

> night, when the blood sugar drops and we really need the glucose to

> prevent a hypoglycemic reaction?

> This morning at 3am, my bs was 47, at 7am it was 177 and

> unfortunately, I had not eaten anything since 3pm yesterday. Im

> getting frustrated..ugh !

> Diane the Curious one

> In blind-diabetics@y..., The Scarlet Wombat <coconut@m...> wrote:

> > Yes, I get a pronounced dawn effect. My glucose can be 102 at

> midnight,

> > and with nothing to eat, it will be 140 at six when I'm up and

> around,

> > still on an empty stomach.

> >

> > I used to be on Mitformin in the morning only, I have added it at

> night and

> > this helps. Even eating zero carbs after noon does not affect

> this, which

> > truly bothers me because the long term effects of mitformin are

not

> > pleasant at all.

> >

> > Dan

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Of course, the ideal, Diane, would be a tiny glucose monitor with the

insulin pump so the pump could deliver just enough, then watch the effect

on the glucose. I would not be surprised to see something like that in ten

years.

Dan

[Guest guest]

The convention was fun, but tiring. Staying up until midnight or so and

getting up at 6 really messed me up! But it is fun seeing people I see only

at convention time. I am haivng high morning blood sugars too and thought

is was due to going into reaction during the night. I need to do a blood

sugar at midnight and then at 3 for a couple of nights in a row, but I get

up at 5 for work and it so hard to do that! Maybe this weekend when I don't

have to get up and stay up so early I can do that and get the situation

straightened out. Getting up with a blood sugar over 200 or even 300 is not

a good way to start the day.

Re: Diabetes and The Dawn Phenomenon

>

>

> ---Hi Dan:

> I still dont understand the Dawn Phenomenon. I dont understand why

> the liver cranks out glucose in the early morning hours when we are

> up and moving around, without eating.

> Do you know why this doesnt happen at other times of the day and

> night, when the blood sugar drops and we really need the glucose to

> prevent a hypoglycemic reaction?

> This morning at 3am, my bs was 47, at 7am it was 177 and

> unfortunately, I had not eaten anything since 3pm yesterday. Im

> getting frustrated..ugh !

> Diane the Curious one

> In blind-diabetics@y..., The Scarlet Wombat <coconut@m...> wrote:

> > Yes, I get a pronounced dawn effect. My glucose can be 102 at

> midnight,

> > and with nothing to eat, it will be 140 at six when I'm up and

> around,

> > still on an empty stomach.

> >

> > I used to be on Mitformin in the morning only, I have added it at

> night and

> > this helps. Even eating zero carbs after noon does not affect

> this, which

> > truly bothers me because the long term effects of mitformin are

not

> > pleasant at all.

> >

> > Dan

>

>

>

>