Re: how long should I wait ?

[Guest guest]

before stopping chelation.We are doing now round 8 of AC chelation.We have seen a lot of bad reaction-he is agressive,nervous,wakes up during the night,overall regression.We still don't see any changes for the better,we are both tired and hopeless that this will ever gonna work for our son.His hair test results showed 98% toxic representation-arsenic,lead,antimony very high.How long should I wait for positive reaction?will this ever happen?

thank you,

very very tired mumWhat dosage and frequency are you using? Normally it is advised 6 months after no symptoms appear (or gains).Could he have yeast?--

is

[Guest guest]

Yes,he could have yeast,we are going to start 6 weeks course with nystatin.He is

taking 150 bilion probiotics,3 caps.sacchromyces boulardii,1,5 candex a day.He

is 2,5 yrs,taking all recommended supplements.Frist 6 rounds was on 3mg ALA

every 3 hrs day,4 hrs at night.We added dmsa in the last 2 rounds and he is on

4mg ALA and 4mg dmsa every 3 hrs day,4 hrs at night.He is unhappy,banging his

head a lot,hitting himself,very angry and I can say that he was much better

before we started chelating.

thank you,

maria

[Guest guest]

when did the negatives start? if straight away that is probably not yeast. In

your situation I would stop asap, maybe retry a at later stage.

>

> > before stopping chelation.We are doing now round 8 of AC chelation.We have

> > seen a lot of bad reaction-he is agressive,nervous,wakes up during the

> > night,overall regression.We still don't see any changes for the better,we

> > are both tired and hopeless that this will ever gonna work for our son.His

> > hair test results showed 98% toxic representation-arsenic,lead,antimony very

> > high.How long should I wait for positive reaction?will this ever happen?

> > thank you,

> > very very tired mum

> >

>

> What dosage and frequency are you using? Normally it is advised 6 months

> after no symptoms appear (or gains).

>

> Could he have yeast?

>

> --

> is

>

[Guest guest]

he was slowly getting worse.We had similar reaction wth CEASE therapy with

detoxing DTaP-he was reacting very bad to that but I was told that this reaction

is a good reaction that's mean this is working,he is detoxing,3 months we were

doing this and we stopped because he was still getting worse and no

improvements.

maria

[Guest guest]

We did 20 rounds before we saw any improvements with chelation, a reaction whether good or bad shows he needs it. Do you live in an old house that might have Lead?

What is your yeast protocol?

Did he get worse after adding DMSA?

Mandi x

he was slowly getting worse.We had similar reaction wth CEASE therapy with detoxing DTaP-he was reacting very bad to that but I was told that this reaction is a good reaction that's mean this is working,he is detoxing,3 months we were doing this and we stopped because he was still getting worse and no improvements.maria

[Guest guest]

that could be too risky imo, could lead to permanent damage.>> We did 20 rounds before we saw any improvements with chelation, a reaction > whether good or bad shows he needs it. Do you live in an old house that > might have Lead?> > What is your yeast protocol?> > Did he get worse after adding DMSA?> > Mandi x> > > > > > > > > he was slowly getting worse.We had similar reaction wth CEASE therapy with > detoxing DTaP-he was reacting very bad to that but I was told that this > reaction is a good reaction that's mean this is working,he is detoxing,3 > months we were doing this and we stopped because he was still getting worse and > no improvements.> maria>

[Guest guest]

I have the feeling that a lot of people on this list would disagree with

me but I would STOP IMMEDIATELY. Our children are suffering enough

without us piling more on - short term die off etc is pretty different

to what you're describing. I would guess (and it's only a guess) that

either he is reacting badly to the chelating agent or his little system

is too weak at present to cope with chelation and you could try again

some time in the future. There is PLENTY more therapy to try again in

the future.

Sara

[Guest guest]

thank you,we giving him lots of probiotics and candex.We think he may have

candida as he is giggling a lot without reason and wants sweets a lot,orange

stool.We are going to start nystatin.We did one round with dmsa only and he was

better during the night,didn't wake up.I think the problem might be with ALA.We

live in old house,I dont know about lead but have asbestos.

maria

[Guest guest]

,

It does sound, by the hair test and the reaction, like your child really does

need chelation. Having said that, I would stop right away though and figure out

what is happening. I think a lot is blamed on yeastt that has nothing to do

with it. I was told yeast as well, as my son although he reacted very well to

chelation and clearly needed it, has had a few long and very upsetting

regressions--nothing to do with chelation IMO. I still have not figured out

what has caused them, although we are seeing some progress in trying to deal

with mast cell activation, that is also not enough on its own. I am a big

believer in chelation, however, I don't think you should continue with it right

now as things stand.

Things I have seen commonly in chelation: parents unwittingly not chelating

properly (things such as too high of a dose, skipping night doses, etc);

problems with supporting supps (not giving them, not trialling supporting supps

long enough and getting regression from those, not having enough of the most

important ones esp antioxidants, etc); a frank intolerance of a chelator (this

is very rare but has happened a few times).

If it were my child, I would get yeast under control, ensure that lead exposure

isn't happening, stop supporting supps and trial each one separately (and

perhaps get some other supps on board that can help, such as vit k to help with

calcium). Then I would stay at that point for a few weeks to get a baseline.

When I retrialled chelation, I would go very, very low dose DMSA (as your child

seemed okay with it) or even td-dmps, as I know from chelating adults that if

there are significant gut problems, the oral chelators can be difficult.

Anita

>

> before stopping chelation.We are doing now round 8 of AC chelation.We have

seen a lot of bad reaction-he is agressive,nervous,wakes up during the

night,overall regression.We still don't see any changes for the better,we are

both tired and hopeless that this will ever gonna work for our son.His hair test

results showed 98% toxic representation-arsenic,lead,antimony very high.How long

should I wait for positive reaction?will this ever happen?

> thank you,

> very very tired mum

>

[Guest guest]

Not sure what you mean, the reason we couldn;t see the improvements was because they were masked by yeast, they were still there

Mandi x

that could be too risky imo, could lead to permanent damage.

>> We did 20 rounds before we saw any improvements with chelation, a reaction > whether good or bad shows he needs it. Do you live in an old house that > might have Lead?> > What is your yeast protocol?> > Did he get worse after adding DMSA?> > Mandi x> > > > > > > > > he was slowly getting worse.We had similar reaction wth CEASE therapy with > detoxing DTaP-he was reacting very bad to that but I was told that this > reaction is a good reaction that's mean this is working,he is detoxing,3 > months we were doing this and we stopped because he was still getting worse and > no improvements.> maria>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a very toxic little boy, if home is old enough for asbestos then Lead is more likely.

He should be no/low sugar and no sweets or yeast will never be under control, yeast drive them to get more sugar because its feeds them.

I would stop chelating and try and get a handle on the gut, orange loose stool is often overload, we had it for years without understanding.

Have you ever given him a bowel clear out.

Light or orange stools could also mean poor quality bile and or liver detox issues- what does he get for liver support?

Don't give up on chelation completely, just take a little time out to make sure all the supports are in place and he isn't in pain or distressed by his gut issues

Mandi x

thank you,we giving him lots of probiotics and candex.We think he may have candida as he is giggling a lot without reason and wants sweets a lot,orange stool.We are going to start nystatin.We did one round with dmsa only and he was better during the night,didn't wake up.I think the problem might be with ALA.We live in old house,I dont know about lead but have asbestos.maria

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a very toxic little boy, if home is old enough for asbestos then Lead is more likely.

He should be no/low sugar and no sweets or yeast will never be under control, yeast drive them to get more sugar because its feeds them.

I would stop chelating and try and get a handle on the gut, orange loose stool is often overload, we had it for years without understanding.

Have you ever given him a bowel clear out.

Light or orange stools could also mean poor quality bile and or liver detox issues- what does he get for liver support?

Don't give up on chelation completely, just take a little time out to make sure all the supports are in place and he isn't in pain or distressed by his gut issues

Mandi x

thank you,we giving him lots of probiotics and candex.We think he may have candida as he is giggling a lot without reason and wants sweets a lot,orange stool.We are going to start nystatin.We did one round with dmsa only and he was better during the night,didn't wake up.I think the problem might be with ALA.We live in old house,I dont know about lead but have asbestos.maria

[Guest guest]

Thank you,Mandi.What is bowel clear out?We use milk thilstle-2 cap.a day for

liver support and we also would like to try taracyn for liver.We giving him lots

of supplements:mb12 + folinic

acid,magnesium,calcium,zinc,selenium,tmg,vit.C,molibden,taurine,fish oil,vit.B

complex,vit.E,inositol,probiotics and we will try adrenal cortex.

maria

[Guest guest]

Thank you,Mandi.What is bowel clear out?We use milk thilstle-2 cap.a day for

liver support and we also would like to try taracyn for liver.We giving him lots

of supplements:mb12 + folinic

acid,magnesium,calcium,zinc,selenium,tmg,vit.C,molibden,taurine,fish oil,vit.B

complex,vit.E,inositol,probiotics and we will try adrenal cortex.

maria

[Guest guest]

Bowel clear out is making sure there is no impacted old poop insider, new stuff can move around it, it can cause a lot of pain and discomfort and if he is backed up them the supplements just end up feeding the gut bugs instead of helping him.

Many practitioners do a bowel clear out before they do anything else to make sure pipes are clean, usually with Oxypowder and lots of water. Oxypowder draws water into the bowels to soften things and creates oxygen to help break down old stuff. Its magnesium and vitamin C.

Milk Thistle often comes in 150mg caps and I think that's too much for a little one

Did you introduce all these supplments one at a time so you know what is working?

Was the MB12 in place and no problem before he started head banging? Did you try it on its own without the folininc and TMG? Some kids don't need all those, Dr Neubrander recommends trying 5 weeks MB12 without the extras

Mandi x

Thank you,Mandi.What is bowel clear out?We use milk thilstle-2 cap.a day for liver support and we also would like to try taracyn for liver.We giving him lots of supplements:mb12 + folinic acid,magnesium,calcium,zinc,selenium,tmg,vit.C,molibden,taurine,fish oil,vit.B complex,vit.E,inositol,probiotics and we will try adrenal cortex.maria

[Guest guest]

that could be too risky imo, could lead to permanent damage.i know it sounds strange but its possible you need to lower the dose or better still avoid the ALA for a while. AC protocol recommends start with DMSA unless you have a good reason to avoid DMSA. Once the body burden of metals has been lowered (recommends 3 months or more) then add in the ALA. ALA is potent stuff and gave me strange behaviours as well.

-- is

[Guest guest]

I have the feeling that a lot of people on this list would disagree with

me but I would STOP IMMEDIATELY. Our children are suffering enough

without us piling more on - short term die off etc is pretty different

to what you're describing. I would guess (and it's only a guess) that

either he is reacting badly to the chelating agent or his little system

is too weak at present to cope with chelation and you could try again

some time in the future. There is PLENTY more therapy to try again in

the future.

SaraALA messes with my head so i can imagine what it can do to a little kid. -- is

[Guest guest]

thank you,we giving him lots of probiotics and candex.We think he may have candida as he is giggling a lot without reason and wants sweets a lot,orange stool.We are going to start nystatin.We did one round with dmsa only and he was better during the night,didn't wake up.I think the problem might be with ALA.We live in old house,I dont know about lead but have asbestos.

mariaYou do realise that a round is 3 days and 3 nights? -- is

[Guest guest]

,

It does sound, by the hair test and the reaction, like your child really does need chelation.  Having said that, I would stop right away though and figure out what is happening.   I think a lot is blamed on yeastt that has nothing to do with it.  I was told yeast as well, as my son although he reacted very well to chelation and clearly needed it, has had a few long and very upsetting regressions--nothing to do with chelation IMO.   I still have not figured out what has caused them, although we are seeing some progress in trying to deal with mast cell activation, that is also not enough on its own.  I am a big believer in chelation, however, I don't think you should continue with it right now as things stand.

Considering he is ok off the ALA and with DMSA only rounds (as the AC protocol suggests) i would say the ALA was added in earlier than he could manage.

Things I have seen commonly in chelation:  parents unwittingly not chelating properly (things such as too high of a dose, skipping night doses, etc); problems with supporting supps (not giving them, not trialling supporting supps long enough and getting regression from those, not having enough of the most important ones esp antioxidants, etc); a frank intolerance of a chelator (this is very rare but has happened a few times).

You can add " using ALA before the child is ready and the high body burden causing horrendous side effects " to that list.

If it were my child, I would get yeast under control, ensure that lead exposure isn't happening, stop supporting supps and trial each one separately (and perhaps get some other supps on board that can help, such as vit k to help with calcium).  Then I would stay at that point for a few weeks to get a baseline.  When I retrialled chelation, I would go very, very low dose DMSA (as your child seemed okay with it) or even td-dmps, as I know from chelating adults that if there are significant gut problems, the oral chelators can be difficult.

Sounds plausible to me, vitamins A, C and E and milk thistle I think are on the basic supplement list for chelation. I use the 'children with starving brains' book for the supplement levels and the 'frequent dosage chelation' yahoo list for the chelation levels.

-- is

[Guest guest]

,

It does sound, by the hair test and the reaction, like your child really does need chelation.  Having said that, I would stop right away though and figure out what is happening.   I think a lot is blamed on yeastt that has nothing to do with it.  I was told yeast as well, as my son although he reacted very well to chelation and clearly needed it, has had a few long and very upsetting regressions--nothing to do with chelation IMO.   I still have not figured out what has caused them, although we are seeing some progress in trying to deal with mast cell activation, that is also not enough on its own.  I am a big believer in chelation, however, I don't think you should continue with it right now as things stand.

Considering he is ok off the ALA and with DMSA only rounds (as the AC protocol suggests) i would say the ALA was added in earlier than he could manage.

Things I have seen commonly in chelation:  parents unwittingly not chelating properly (things such as too high of a dose, skipping night doses, etc); problems with supporting supps (not giving them, not trialling supporting supps long enough and getting regression from those, not having enough of the most important ones esp antioxidants, etc); a frank intolerance of a chelator (this is very rare but has happened a few times).

You can add " using ALA before the child is ready and the high body burden causing horrendous side effects " to that list.

If it were my child, I would get yeast under control, ensure that lead exposure isn't happening, stop supporting supps and trial each one separately (and perhaps get some other supps on board that can help, such as vit k to help with calcium).  Then I would stay at that point for a few weeks to get a baseline.  When I retrialled chelation, I would go very, very low dose DMSA (as your child seemed okay with it) or even td-dmps, as I know from chelating adults that if there are significant gut problems, the oral chelators can be difficult.

Sounds plausible to me, vitamins A, C and E and milk thistle I think are on the basic supplement list for chelation. I use the 'children with starving brains' book for the supplement levels and the 'frequent dosage chelation' yahoo list for the chelation levels.

-- is

[Guest guest]

Are you certain there isn't an oxalate problem? My son was totally out of his skin raging when we used Milk Thistle, if this is an issue then it would certainly mask any gains from any treatment, chelation included.

I have always removed one at a time if I had gone in with too many supps as that's another way of pin pointing the problem and would start with the milk thistle, you might feel more comfortable though to just stop everything and slowly re-introduce instead.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

Are you certain there isn't an oxalate problem? My son was totally out of his skin raging when we used Milk Thistle, if this is an issue then it would certainly mask any gains from any treatment, chelation included.

I have always removed one at a time if I had gone in with too many supps as that's another way of pin pointing the problem and would start with the milk thistle, you might feel more comfortable though to just stop everything and slowly re-introduce instead.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

We are going to remove some supplements like-mb12,tmg,folinic acid as we used

this for a while with no effects(we will try mb12 transdermal instead)and stop

milk thisle for a while to see if it is the oxalate issue.We will stop chelation

for a few weeks and heal the gut and start again with dmsa only.Thank you!

maria