Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 Oh, I get it. My brother’s wife is like that. She scares me! Louis From: > I cant say much to that! I am really clumsy so I have to laugh > at myself whenever I hurt myself in some truly spectacular way. That's not what I mean, though. (And she's not really clumsy.) She laughs at times when she's seriously endangered another person. It doesn't seem like malicious laughter. She just seems to be completely oblivious to the danger, and thinks the other person is overreacting if they complain, and she laughs at the person's reaction. Definitely not a " laughing with them " thing, nor the most usual kind of " nervous laughter " , nor the usual kind of " laughing at oneself " . Almost like if there were two people in a room with a fan blowing in it. One of the people has an irrational fear of fans blowing on them, thinking that for some convoluted reason it will kill them, even though it won't. The other person does not understand this (it being outside the realm of their experience that fans could even be *perceived* as doing this) and therefore kind of laughs at the person while encouraging them to stand in front of the fan. Only in this case the danger is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 You’d think so, but they want us to promote or they think we will sue them if we don’t get promoted. I just want to go to work and fix what’s broken and be left alone. I don’t want to go to meetings and answer telephones, but they don’t understand, and it ’s awkward to try to inform them, not a good idea. Louis From: AndyTiedye Chemer wrote: >At one time Computers were a Geeks World. Now more and more NTs are >realising how much money computers can pay so they are training up to >go into those fields. > This is not necessarily a bad thing. We get the NTs to go to all the long, boring meetings. Some of them actually like going to meetings. They want to be promoted into management. Many of them will be. Good for them. Better them than us. But when they've got something really complicated to build, or when they've got something that's really broken, they know who to come to. They know we're a little strange, they may not know anything about autism, but they know from experience that wizards are often like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 Leafgreen danced around singing: >People do pick up that I am different, even though they don't know how, >and in a potential employment situation, being different pretty much rules >me out....I keep hoping that I wake up from this dream that I am autistic >and find out that I am just a standard NT. I don't think your not being NT is necessarily the problem here. How much of your trouble finding a job might also be a pervasive attitude of " I'm not as good as them, I'm defective, I wish I were somebody else " ? NT or AC, people tend to not be hired if they are unmotivated in life and openly feel helpless against everything. Why not wish that you would wake up in a land not filled with prejudiced jerks? Why blame yourself? Had gays, blacks, or other disabled groups sat around just wishing they weren't gay/black/disabled, rather than putting the blame on the prejudiced morons in our society and taking action, those groups would still be even more as people on the autism spectrum are. There were actually laws preventing their entry into certain areas of society, whole institutions designed *openly* to murdering or incarcerating those that dared rebel. It wasn't a case of fighting to uphold pre-existing laws that forbade discrimination and required accommodation in the workplace -- it was a case of having to fight to establish those laws. Change wasn't accomplished by a bunch of generous able-bodied white straight NTs; it happened because those being oppressed chose to stand up for their needs. It's even happening right now in 2003 -- gays now have the legal support to marry in Canada, and are working on that as well as on the right to adopt children in America. They have chosen to push the system not just so it stops attacking them outright, but even further, until it guarantees them true equality. They wouldn't have gotten this far if they'd sat around wishing they were straight so heterosexuals wouldn't discriminate against them. Things are never going to change if we sit passively and let people abuse us. I am not saying that we all feel like we have the strength or the energy, or even that we feel like we deserve it. I sure don't feel that way... I've had two people that I thought liked me attack me pretty viciously for being autistic and disabled in the past week, plus the fights on multiple lists with the curebie AS crowd. I really just want to go hide with a book and not contact the outside world again, ever. Maybe I will. However, If I do that -- if I give up on ever having a career, ever making a difference in the world, it will be my choice. The NTs might be jerks, but they aren't holding me down and preventing me from fighting at all -- by choosing to give in, *I'll* be the one defeating me. So if you need to blame somebody, blame your lack of interest in pushing for your rights. Blame all of the other autistics that have no interest or belief in making improvements to our lives that so many other groups have done before. Blame the NTs that are openly prejudiced, and the autistics that promote prejudice within our community. But don't blame autism, because that isn't the problem. DeGraf ~*~ Proud HFA age 26 blog: http://sonic.net/mustang/moggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 > I am not saying that we all feel like we have the strength or the > energy, While the rest of your post makes sense in a wide-angle view, there's an error here: Some people not only don't *feel* like they have the energy, they *don't*. Not a choice. *Don't*. I have been in that position a lot. When I am in that position, no amount of motivation to do things will cause anything other than pushing myself until I hit shutdown and become even less able to participate in whatever it was. At which point a message like " If you don't do something, this is a choice " looks like a pretty low blow. It's hard to write a message, though, in a manner which will both encourage people who want to and *can* do something but don't feel like they can to push themselves to do something, and *also* not cause people who look the same in behavior but really can't do the thing to feel guilty and push themselves too hard. -- " Each time, place, and culture makes its own rules for how to be a model citizen. Being a loner usually means smashing all those rules, simply by breathing. " -Anneli Rufus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 danced around singing: >While the rest of your post makes sense in a wide-angle view, there's an >error here: Some people not only don't *feel* like they have the >energy, they *don't*. Not a choice. *Don't*. > >I have been in that position a lot. When I am in that position, no >amount of motivation to do things will cause anything other than pushing >myself until I hit shutdown and become even less able to participate in >whatever it was. At which point a message like " If you don't do >something, this is a choice " looks like a pretty low blow. I apologize for that... I was originally going to clarify, as I remember thinking about those autistics that *are* totally drained, but for some reason wrote ahead anyway. I was speaking specifically in my rantlet of the ACs that do have the energy, but don't use it at all for change. (I'm running mostly on anger from an incident earlier today, so my thinking isn't terribly clear. Hopefully you can figure out what I mean...the people that truly don't aren't the ones I'm targeting; it's the ones that do, and that use it for other things while blaming autism for their learned helplessness.) Is it possible to successfully have a job and not have energy? (Honest question, I was puzzling that out earlier.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 --- gareth wrote: > --- In AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse , > > If he did it once, he didn't know what he was > doing at that age and > needs to be taught. No big deal. If he does it to > the extent that > was described- chronically, the teachers are weak in > discipline, and > the boy has major boundary issues. I doubt a little > boy has > malicious intent, but he needs to learn BOUNDARIES, > and manners, and > to respect others. Children who have problems with > that will grow > into adults with major problems if they aren't > taught boundaries. ----------I have to agree with you here. > b> It is certainly correct that kissing a girl once on > the head and > constantly harrasing a girl are two seperate events. > It is my opinion > that men haters do not truly appreciate the > difference. -----------Exactly. And I'd like to point out, that having raised a young boy when all of this bullshit was becoming popular, I had to laugh, because rarely is anything said at all about little girls who tease and flirt, and in very early grades. And if the boy attempts to respond, it's the boy in trouble, not the girl. > Lets not forget here Jeanette, we are talking about > a boy, not a man. > There are certain boundaries here that you should > not blur, > Jeannette, nomatter how much you dislike me. Boys > and girls do not > understand boundaries, men and women have grown more > of an idea. --------I agree that the teaching of boundaries is important, but not filling heads with ideas that kissing on top of the head is 'sexual harassment'. > > though, you may remember the exitement that lies in > flirtation, is > derived from the meeting and crossing of boundaries, > things that we > autistics and aspies are notoriosly clueless at. > Perhaps that boy was > an aspie, an aspie that really liked her. think > about it. One of the > major things wrong with supporting the suspension, > is we know little > at all about it. Thus, the only people who feel > justified to comment, > are those that feel justified, or indeed dont > notice, that they are > filling in the huge chasms of blanks from past > experience. A > dangerous past time, and one which is regularly > partaken of and > accepted. > > Now supposing the boy kissed her on the head. What > should have > happened was " Hey tony/fred, thats wrong to do > without jane/kristina > wanting you too " ------Exactly. > Nanne ===== " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " -- Seurat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 It is a violation of my person to touch me without my permission! If you want a hug, ask me FIRST. If you feel the need to kiss me on my head, suppress it. If you touch me and I tell you never to do it again, respect that! I have the right to not be touched, why can’t other people keep their persons to themselves? Yes, I occasionally feel the need to reach out for my child to let them know that I am there and that I love them; to reassure them. I suppress that urge. My daughter thrives on attention, so I could touch her anytime I wanted to, but I still ask her first! My middle child I ask for a hug, sometimes he says yes, sometimes he says no. The problem is that no one tells you when you are a child how to tell other people to stop. Doctors don’t say, “Okay, I’m going to tap you on the knee with my little mallet.” No, they just do it. They assume (hate that action) that you know what they are doing and that it is okay with you. Nobody tells you that you have the right to tell them not to do that. No, it’s not sexual harassment; it’s simply a bully making a power play that they can touch you anytime they want, whether you want them to or not. Louis From: gareth > Nanne wrote: > > ---------No. I'm talking about 'too far and bordering > >into ridiculousness', such as the kindegarten boy in > >Michigan who got suspended from school for having > >kissed a girl on top of her head and 'sexually > >harassing her'. > > That kind of " zero tolerance " nonsense is not > feminism, IMO. > > Jane > > This is not feminism, it is humanism. If a girl behaved in the same way, the consequence would hopefully be the same. People sneer at that decision, and it puzzles me. Harrassment in kindergarten is as devastating as at any other time of life. Non-consentual touching is as serious for a 4 year old as for any other person. I taught a boy who kept following and cuddling a little girl to the extent that she refused to come to school. School programs to counteract bullying were ineffective because the parents thought his behaviour was sweet and openly laughed at any attempts to persuade them otherwise. The girl's parents were devastated that their child was too scared to come to school. The decision by this school was that one parent should accompany the boy to school and shadow him, preventing him from harassing the girl. Failure to do so would result in the boy being expelled. Interestingly after one day of his father following him around, the child approached his teacher and made a commitment not to harass the girl again. It is far better to deal with this in childhood than to try to address it in puberty or adulthood. ********* Sweet Jesus, the boy kissed her on her head, we have no further information. I am shaking my head, trying to form some kind of all encompasing argument. Lets just say that hugging a girl against her wishes and harrasing her all day, a kiss on the head does not make- except in the minds of people who are anti men from the start, and extrapolate their own personal prejudices onto such things. im still shaking my head sadly, so ill leave it at that. I'm fit for crying here, its so sad. Gareth (its enough to drive a man to drink :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 --- Louise Gainor wrote: > No, it’s not sexual harassment; it’s simply a bully > making a > power play that they can touch you anytime they > want, whether you > want them to or not. > > Louis > -------------Oh good grief, Louise, your calling a kindegarten boy (who may need to learn boundaries, yes) a bully for a spontaneous act of affection is pathetic and sad. This is a sad, pathetic world you are all insisiting on it becoming. Argh! Nanne > From: gareth > > Nanne wrote: > > > ---------No. I'm talking about 'too far and > bordering > > >into ridiculousness', such as the kindegarten boy > in > > >Michigan who got suspended from school for having > > >kissed a girl on top of her head and 'sexually > > >harassing her'. > > > > That kind of " zero tolerance " nonsense is not > > feminism, IMO. > > > > Jane > > > > This is not feminism, it is humanism. If a girl > behaved in the > same way, the consequence would hopefully be the > same. People > sneer > at that decision, and it puzzles me. Harrassment in > kindergarten > is > as devastating as at any other time of life. > Non-consentual > touching > is as serious for a 4 year old as for any other > person. I taught > a > boy who kept following and cuddling a little girl to > the extent > that > she refused to come to school. School programs to > counteract > bullying were ineffective because the parents > thought his > behaviour > was sweet and openly laughed at any attempts to > persuade them > otherwise. The girl's parents were devastated that > their child > was > too scared to come to school. The decision by this > school was > that > one parent should accompany the boy to school and > shadow him, > preventing him from harassing the girl. Failure to > do so would > result in the boy being expelled. Interestingly > after one day of > his > father following him around, the child approached > his teacher and > made a commitment not to harass the girl again. It > is far better > to > deal with this in childhood than to try to address > it in puberty > or > adulthood. > > ********* > Sweet Jesus, the boy kissed her on her head, we have > no further > information. > > I am shaking my head, trying to form some kind of > all encompasing > argument. Lets just say that hugging a girl against > her wishes > and > harrasing her all day, a kiss on the head does not > make- except > in > the minds of people who are anti men from the start, > and > extrapolate > their own personal prejudices onto such things. > > im still shaking my head sadly, so ill leave it at > that. I'm fit > for > crying here, its so sad. > > Gareth > > (its enough to drive a man to drink :-) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 --- DeGraf wrote: > Chemer danced around singing: > >Children are growing up not > >knowing how to be affectionate and thus are having > warped > >relationships. > > What evidence do you have of this? Studies you can > point us to? > -------He's saying this is bound to happen if we begin calling it sexual harassment when a 5 year old boy kisses a 5 year old girl on the head. We're re-naming an innocent act a perversion and crime. And I agree this kind of stuff is bound to warp the thinking of people. Nanne ===== " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " -- Seurat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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