Re: Multi-rant

August 6, 2003

In a message dated 8/6/2003 7:02:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ascaris1@... writes:

> Time lapse photography is needed to see if there is any

> movement... and after a few millennia, these sub-sloths do begin to

> move, glacially. And just when you think you might make it through the

> light, it changes. Another eon of waiting befalls you. The lights are

> so long here that sometimes I begin to wonder if the light will ever

> change, or if I in fact live in my car, near an intersection. I half

> expect to start getting my mail there. By the time the light changes

> again, spiders have spun webs between my car and the street... birds

> have nested on top of the car... pack rats have moved into my engine

> compartment. Rodents have been born and died of old age, never knowing

> a time when my car was not motionless in anticipation of the green

> light. I get home and find that the year has been incremented multiple

> times since I left. The world has changed... new countries in Africa,

> new politicians are in office, my favorite TV shows have all ended after

> a long run and been replaced by others... all while time stood still in

> the intersection. The rest of the world keeps moving, but time stops in

> a Tucson intersection.

>

okay after thinking of how 's post affected me, yes, this one made me

laugh, yes.

I am on mine side peeing in mine pants, yes. lol...

Juli ASD mother to Nicollette Rett Syndrome w/autism

August 6, 2003

--- Klein wrote:

>

> Second... eye examinations. Why does my contact

> lens prescription

> expire in one year? I use the disposable lenses, so

> I have to

> periodically get more of them. After one year,

> though, I can't... in

> Arizona, it is illegal to give out lenses on a

> prescription over a year

> old. In California, it is not... most places still

> require it, but I

> did find one that would take any age rx.

> California, most regulated

> state in the union, has less regulation in this area

> than Arizona.

>

-----------If I remember correctly, I think you can

send off to Canada for a new set of contacts. I

haven't done this myself yet, but I remember seeing an

add in the paper, and amongst all the stuff you can

send off, it included contact lenses.

Keep fighting the SS, eventually they grow weary

and will award it.....

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

August 6, 2003

Klein danced around singing:

>I am overloaded and thoroughly out of it right now as I write this... So

>much garbage going on in this world; I really wish I could live my life

>inside a holo-suite somewhere, so as to keep this irritating reality

>from molesting me any further.

Same thing that has been going through my head for quite a while now. I've

been stuck either in or near overload for months, with only short

respites...when I think I'm finally recovering, another disaster comes

along and I'm knocked right back to almost not being able to communicate

(or not being able to at all) all over again.

>Third, Tucsonans...

It's not just people in Tuscon. The Internet has taught me that it's

humanity in general that is a waste of space. I already believed it for

the most part before now, but used to think that there was perhaps 10% of

the population that was worthy of notice. I now realize that it's a whole

lot closer to .000000001% and I even wonder about those people once in a

while. :-p

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

August 6, 2003

wrote:

> I have a question, if you don't mind:

>

> When you say it's " on your mother's record, " is this Disabled Adult

> Child benefits?

Yes.

> My father is retiring soon. He was told that I need to file for

> Disabled Adult Child benefits instead of SSI. I have *no clue* what

> is happening, what the changes are in Medicaid, whether I'll get

> Medicaid, Medicare, or Medicaid and Medicare, whether there are any

> major pitfalls to this situation, whether I'll be allowed low-income

> housing, and a lot of other things.

If you get it, you will get half of whatever your father gets. If you

were considered disabled at a certain age (18, 21, or 22... given that

autism is by definition something that starts at or before 36 months, I

think you have that covered.

Now... as for medicaid... you will still get it if whatever you get

after your dad retires does not raise your income above the cap. Same

goes for low income housing. You will get medicare a and b if you go on

your dad's record.

> Then they told me that I won't know until I file. (Which is patently

> unfair. They are telling my father about retirement benefits before

> he files, to prepare him. They had *tons* of pamphlets about SSI and

> different aspects of SSI before I filed for that. Why do they have

> none of this literature for Disabled Adult Child benefits?)

I guess it is pretty rare. When I applied for SSI, I knew I had far too

few work credits to qualify for disability, but even then I could have

qualified on my mother's record. They never told me it was even a

possibility. It was my mother who told me about that. I went to SSA

and applied for the disability on my mother's record then, and it went

pretty quick, since the disability determination had already been done.

When my father retires, I will get half of what he gets, and that will

take me right off of SSI in Arizona. Then I will be allowed to work a

little and supplement my income. Disability is much more forgiving

about income than SSI is.

> I have a meeting with my service coordinator from the Regional Center

> tomorrow to discuss this, and I hope he knows some answers.

> Because it's driving me nuts not knowing what's going to happen when

> my father retires.

I am pretty sure that the answer is " nothing " if you don't apply for

benefits on his record. I do not think it is a requirement that you go

for this; you have to apply for it. If half of what your father gets is

less than what you get on SSI, your total income will go up exactly

$20. Woo-hoo. With disability, normally you will be paid up to one

year of back payments, from the date you initially applied, but it has

to be at least six months from the date of disability. I got that

because my mother was getting benefits more than a year before I

applied. However, since your father was not getting benefits a year

before you started getting them, I do not think this will be the case

for you.

Whatever you get from disability, SSI will go down by that same amount

less $20. In my case, I was getting $530 a month for SSI before I

appled for disability on my mother's record, and then I was awarded half

of my mom's $700 a month, which is $350. My SSI went down by $330. SSI

ignores the first $20 of non-SSI income; after that, they reduce it 1:1

for every dollar that comes in.

Oddly, you do not qualify for benefits on your parents' record if you

have ever been married. I have no idea why that is, but that is the

rule. I doubt I will ever be married, but if I do, it will kill my

disability forever... and even though my SSI in California will probably

be the same as my disability (anywhere in the US), I would rather have

the disability because it allows me a little leeway in getting some

income of my own to make things more livable. He's 64 now... I do not

know when he plans to retire. His 401-k tanked when the stock market

came down in 2001, so he may want to wait until he is 67, which will

raise his (and my) benefits, but we will both have to wait longer that way.

> I agree. I think the fact that I'm having trouble breathing in my

> apartment right now is partly because of the stuff that gets caught

> in the carpet and similar surfaces. (As soon as I step outside, I

> breathe just as much better as taking an inhaler.)

It sounds like tiling your floor would be a reasonable accomodation (I

always use those exact words; anyone that knows the ADA will know

exactly what that means, and you can bet apartment managers know about

the ADA). I know a woman (I have spoken of her before; she is the last

person I dated, as I described not long ago) who gets SSI for MCS/CFIDS,

and she got her section 8 apartment tiled in nice ceramic tiles under

the ADA. I already had to play the ADA card once to stay here; it

worked better than a charm (charms are not all that effective).

> I don't generally declare my guests. I have had so many aides coming

> in and out that apartment management can't tell the difference

> anymore. I think they seriously believe that my best friend is

> really an aide, and I have done nothing to disillusion them.

I did not declare anyone, and the manager eventually caught on. She's

been here since January (my friend, not the manager)... well over the

14-day limit. But she is not causing the apartment complex additional

expenditures, and she has no income, so the rent will not go up... so it

is really pointless that they hit this rule so hard. It is an example

of enforcing a rule just for the sake of enforcing the rule.

August 6, 2003

> I am pretty sure that the answer is " nothing " if you don't apply for

> benefits on his record. I do not think it is a requirement that you go

> for this; you have to apply for it.

No, it's a requirement that I apply for it.

I am already on SSI, and SSI requires that you apply for all other

options before resorting to SSI. Therefore, I have to do this. This is

what my parents were told by the SSA. I think the only way I *wouldn't*

get it is if my father disowned me or I did something to disqualify

myself.

(Will respond to the rest later, thanks for the information, it's way

more than I got out of anyone before this.)

--

For an autistic, being an 'inspiration' thus far means: " Good for you,

you've learned to extinguish your personality for my comfort! " -

DeGraf

August 6, 2003

As I mentioned on Tuesday 7/29/2003, it seemed that I was rapidly

approved for SSDI (Social Security Disability). It went a lot faster

than I had expected it to.

I was approved for SSDI in

3 to 4 months. I think the approval went rapidly because of the

following several factors: (1) I kept my psychologist up-to-date

regarding my current situation since he diagnosed me with Asperger's

on 9/30/2002. Since 9/30/2003, I have experienced several overloads.

(2) During the past 30 years, I have had 4 voc rehab cases opened for

me. (3) My psychologist looked at my employment history and noticed

Asperger's features as the cause of many negative citations given by

my employers. (4) I used an old-fashioned typewriter to complete the

10 to 20 page set of forms required by the Social Security

Administration. Typing allowed me to include almost 3 times as much

information on the forms, as compared with handwriting. These forms

requested information detailing my functioning on a day-to-day basis.

I also mentioned how the features of AS/HFA affected my day-to-day

life.

I am currently in the midst of applying for disability retirement

benefits from the retirement trust for Ohio Public Employees. I think

that is taking longer because my psychologist is giving my employer

(The Ohio Department of Public Safety) one last chance to implement

the accommodations requested by me. My voc rehab counselor and I

drafted the list of accommodations. The accommodations deal with

autistic features in several ways. Issues of stress, job performance

speed, written (rather than oral) job-related communication between

me and my supervision/co-workers and informal disability awareness

education of co-workers were addressed in the requested

accommodations. We have not heard from my employer since I requested

the accommodations on Monday 12/30/2002. With the accommodations, I

would be able to do the job. However, I cannot do the job without the

accommodations in place. This is important, because on the doctor's

form, he has to say if I can or cannot discharge the responsibilities

of my job. The answer to that question is determined by whether or

not the accommodations are in place.

Thanks, Jim

August 8, 2003

>

> > No, not for me personally. I have never had any ambition with

regard to

> supporting myself, working, or acting like an adult. I still have

> trouble accepting that I am supposed to be an adult... I am amazed

that

> there are doctors, lawyers, and others with real jobs my age. I

still

> have a sense that I am not mature enough to work at Burger King.

I'm

> still a child, really. I feel no more compunction to support myself

> than an average ten year old. The very idea of it boggles my mind.

And

> when I am expected to do so under threat of homelessness, it really

> scares me.

>

> I faught with the job world for 20 years before I finally gave

up. I even tried the Voc Rehab route with no success. I finally

ended up on disability because I had no other income option. I am

like you; I am stuck at age 10, and will be that way all my life.

>

> When I first started to work, things were no where near as bad

as they are today. Back then, being on " the dole " was far less

common because there was actually work that needed to be done.

Because of my AS, I could never get a " good " job, even with a college

education, but there were always some jobs that needed to be done.

>

> Today, people have become " disposable " . It is just like the

technology that made it so that it is cheaper to buy a new appliance

than repair an old one. There is simply not that much work that

needs to be done today, and having a " job " is something that has been

reserved for the beautiful NT elite.

>

NT elite my ass. Im aspergic, and ive got a job. Either you can have

a job, or you cant. My opinion is, if you are not autistic, you can

have a job. Look, your, (my) disability is rated against NT's,

autistics are rated to themselves. I have tried hard, yet have not

had to go through so much as another aspergic i read about recently

who was conscripted. Just do it if you can people. DO it. Im pixels

on your screen, i can afford my electricity, my home, my BT and AOL

bills, my beer and food, my whatever, because i earn it. Do it,

especially if you are a man. Like it or not, our function as a man is

to provide. Maybe im missing something here, if so, provide something

else, and do it good.

Thats who we are. And remember, if we are on social security,

somebody else is paying for us. Providing a living is a nesseccity

wheather we earn it or are given it- somebody earns it!

Its nothing personal, its the way it works. And it is life.

Gareth.

August 8, 2003

Louise Gainor danced around singing:

>That is actually becoming my niche: most people can’t afford $90

>to $120 an hour to fix their computers, so they end up buying new

>ones….unless!

>That’s where I come in; I charge people $20 per hour to repair

>their old computers and I sell them parts at cost. I’m making a

>fortune at it, and so far it is word of mouth, but it brings in

>an extra $20 every couple of weeks.

I'm envious, where do you live? I don't think I could charge half that

much and get clients these days, there are too many other people here

(Northern Bay Area California) with strong tech skills. :-/

August 8, 2003

I have a 25-year work history, with only two breaks in it (one

for 10 months in 1998 and now since March of this year). The

problem is, I can’t do the job I originally set out for myself.

You can’t be just a computer technician/network technician

anymore repairing computers and network cabling and managing the

network server. Now I need to know how to program in C++ and

VBScript, be fluent in Linux and Unix, and know how to write

queries in both MS SQL and Oracle SQL. I also need to be able to

write technical manuals and train users (some are computer savvy;

most are illiterate). Oh, yes – I also have to run the Meridian

telephone system and troubleshoot and repair that!

I am unable to multitask that much. If I am interrupted in my

work, I have a hell of a time trying to regroup and get back to

what I was originally doing.

Sorry, I can’t do it! Right now I’m trying for Voc Rehab, but I

don’t know what kind of job to switch to!

As for the “man” thing…excuse me?!

Louis

From: gareth

NT elite my ass. Im aspergic, and ive got a job. Either you can

have

a job, or you cant. My opinion is, if you are not autistic, you

can

have a job. Look, your, (my) disability is rated against NT's,

autistics are rated to themselves. I have tried hard, yet have

not

had to go through so much as another aspergic i read about

recently

who was conscripted. Just do it if you can people. DO it. Im

pixels

on your screen, i can afford my electricity, my home, my BT and

AOL

bills, my beer and food, my whatever, because i earn it. Do it,

especially if you are a man. Like it or not, our function as a

man is

to provide. Maybe im missing something here, if so, provide

something

else, and do it good.

Thats who we are. And remember, if we are on social security,

somebody else is paying for us. Providing a living is a

nesseccity

wheather we earn it or are given it- somebody earns it!

Its nothing personal, its the way it works. And it is life.

Gareth.

August 8, 2003

> Providing is a function of man. I dont give all this equality

> stuff any weight. I call my next door neighbour a nigger at

> times (to his face) and he's black. He **IS** black, and not

> just his skin. he's from Africa, and thats what he does,

> african stuff in a western world. Men provide, thats what men

> do. We provide space, love, money. We provide ourselves in our

> way, like we are, women provide themselves, in the way they

> are. Both are different. Or at least they should be.

>

> Gareth

Gareth,

Excuse me for pointing it out, but your butt is showing.

(That's all I got, I'm still tired from dealing with another

outrageously ignorant " super-aspie " on another list.) 8<{)

Clay

August 8, 2003

So, your saying that majority rules should apply to everyone, and

some people are just not the “norm”?

I am not the “norm” being that I am protective and will fight and

kill if necessary to protect and defend my loved ones, but that’s

actually a “mans job”?

I am not the “norm” because I can’t be with my children all day

or I would go completely insane, and their father is much better

at talking to them and reasoning with them, but that’s actually

the “woman’s job”?

How stupid of me, not being NT!!

Now….where’s that lion?

Louis

From: gareth

Other than that, i dont see your point. Women are different than

men.

I have my strengths, despite where i grew up and western society

in

general trying to squash them deeming them to be inapropriate.

Well

if you fall into a pit of lions , it will be a man (if any

around you are not to emasculated) that jumps down to break their

Jaws.

Lesbians can refuse to wear lipstick if they want, just as men

can

try to be not powerfull, but its the fathers role (natural

ability)

to save and the mothers role (natural ability) to nurture. We can

all

talk about some person we knew who lived to the grand old age of

102

(or whatever) that smoked 40 ciggarettes a day, yet we all know

that

they kill us sooner on average. And so it is with men and women.

One

list does not make the world, nor does ten.

Gareth

August 8, 2003

Thank you! My mother supported our family; my father didn’t work.

All four of my sisters support their families; their husbands

stay at home with the kids. I support my family (when I can find

a job!), and my husband stays home with the kids. My brother

works, cleans the house, cooks, takes care of getting the kids to

school and his wife shops.

I think who is the breadwinner is a matter of culture, which is

why we get so offended when someone else tries to tell us how to

live our lives. No, I would rather not be getting food stamps or

unemployment, but I have to have a roof over my head and

groceries on the table, so I need to rely on Q. Taxpayer for

a while. I refuse to feel guilty when I really have no other

control over my financial situation right now.

Louis

From:

My parents both worked (my mother more than my father), both took

care

of the kids (my father better than my mother), both cooked, both

sewed,

both did household chores, and so forth. And in that realm I'm

glad

they did, because being at home with my mother all the time would

have

been much worse than getting to spend time with both my parents,

since

my father was way easier to deal with.

August 9, 2003

Wrote:

> The " gender norms " are a law given to us by the patriarch. Since they

> are so obsessed that women and men MUST be different ( or the men

> would be women), these stupid rules govern society. Women are forced

> to get rail thin (female invisibility to make fearful men more

> comfortable)

Then the patriarch must be a really recent invention, because standards

for female beauty are different across cultures and have changed toward

" rail-thin " very recently (within the lifetime of some of the people on

this mailing list, I'll bet).

Yes- in fact it was a backlash to the feminisim movement and women's growing

independence in this country and in the west. I was using it as an example of

how female societal roles are diminishing and binding to women.

If you want a different culture take this African tribe ( I can't remember the

name), they force women to get lip-plates when she gets married, and to have any

economic standing she must get married. She is enslaved to her husband, while

he can marry as many women as he can afford.

A lip-plate is exactly what it sounds like- a round plate inserted into the

lower lip so it's parrallel to the ground. It is a badge of servitude for these

african girls. It is excruciatingly painfull, and they break. If the lip

breaks, her husband will denounce her.

Many of the women are standing up and refusing to wear them- trying to find

income on thier own.

> A lot of traditional female dress, attitude, etc. is imposed upon

> women as a badge of servitude. Example: Skirts:

> Did you know that in ancent times women wore skirts to keep them from

> running away from thier men?

In ancient times *men* wore skirts.

OK, you have a point. I guess once shorts or pants were introduced, women were

not allowed to wear them for this reason, and I think the skirts were wrapped so

that the woman had far less movement than men.

Unfortunately, she's had very little power tool

safety instruction until I *insisted* she ask for some after she sliced

her little finger nearly in half trying to catch a chainsaw she'd

dropped after carrying it up a *ladder* to use it to cut something that

didn't need a chainsaw anyway. So she'd better have had some by now,

because I know she's back to work on the house. And I'm betting a lot

of the reason nobody bothered to teach her safety is because she's

female and nobody expected her to be using these tools. It's why they

wouldn't let her train as an architect, too.)

That's too bad- is she OK? I've used a chainsaw, it's scary when it kicks back.

But it's fun.

I understand about being excluded from male activities and professions. Its

just plain wrong- and it's happened to me.

Jeanette

August 9, 2003

> Hi Gareth,

>

> Jesus himself would be called a bum

> today as he didn't have a job at all.

> Steve

Nice rationalization, but empty of facts.

He had been a carpenter, didn't you know?

Clay

August 9, 2003

> Sorry Clay didn't know you were that old :-)

>

> Jesus was a Carpenters Son.

>

> Steve

The word over here is that he was a carpenter.

Why not look it up? Get some facts.

Clay

August 10, 2003

--- gareth wrote:

>

> >

> > ---------Well, we *are* different..... the

> blessing

> > comes in that we don't have to be ruled by those

> > differences anymore, and have choices.

> >

> > Nanne

> >

>

> Quite! but do you see where she came from

> originally- that if it

> wernt for men, women and men would be the same-

> thats the starting

> point for femenism, that underlying beleif of

> sameness. oh, im sure

> now youve pointed it out she will have all sorts of

> rational to

> correct her slip of the tongue, but still now the

> secret is out.

>

> She said that if men didnt pass down rules onto men,

> men are

> terrified they would be just like women!

>

> thats the difference, that brand of femenism (ie

> militant) is all

> about changing equality from its original meaning,

> into saying that

> men and women are the same.

-----------Well, it can be said till one is blue in

the face, the differences are there, but we don't have

to be ruled by them any longer.

>

> masculism is about acnowledging God given

> differences, and saying

> that they are all groovy differences, and lets stop

> fighting against

> them.

>

> Gareth.

>

--------- I'd rather see terms like 'masculism' (have

never heard it before though) not necessarily

used....historical feminism I'm proud of, but not the

silliness of the last fifteen years.

> oh, and ill repeat, in a population of billions,

> there will be

> millions of obvious exceptions. thats fine, thats

> how nature works.

> there will be allsorts imbeetween, but the fact

> wether its liked by

> femenists or not is that by mean average there are

> many many

> wholesome differences beetween the sexes.

>

> and especially now that it is being suggested that

> newly diagnosed

> autistics and aspergics are to be directed to a

> website all about

> having no sexuality,

--------eh? have never heard of this, where is it?

without the correlate opposite

> to allow for

> informed choice, the virtues of manliness need to be

> pointed out in

> this effeminate arena now more than ever. Aspergic

> men like myself

> have been bullied to high heaven, (so have women by

> being bitched

> at). It takes corrective therapy for one not to be

> afraid of ones

> manliness, for fear of one immitating the bullies or

> feeling a

> failure.

>

> ones manlieness is a good thing, a very good thing.

>

> Gareth

>

------------I consider myself having pretty much an

androgynous brain in a highly sexual female body.

Imagine how that leads to some highly comical anguish

and interactions!

My particular views on 'the patriarchy' are

this: I'm grateful for the society that led to the

inventions of the washing machine and refrigerator.

Having been through that 'original purpose' of

femaleness, pregnancy and childbirth, I acknowledge

that burden of nature that has more of a ruling thumb

over women's bodies than any 'patriarchal' thing today

does.

Anyone in modern society squawking about being

oppressed by the patriarchy should try go living in

some tribal society with no running water and no

access to birth control for awhile.

In spite of all this, I still found it comical

that you'd put your highest value in your penis and

your paycheck. Everyone should just try to be a

better human being, is all.

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

August 10, 2003

--- Klein wrote:

> wrote:

>

> > Xe has neither the sexual organs of a

> > male nor the sexual organs of a female (thus none

> of the

> > hormone-producing bits either), and was born this

> way.

>

> I'm jealous. Well, not really; I don't really

> experience that

> particular emotion much at all, but I have wished I

> could be free of

> mine for a long time. The only thing useful about a

> penis that I can

> think of is making it easier to urinate standing up.

> The rest of it is

> just dead weight that secretes nasty stuff into my

> blood.... yuck.

>

-----------There are all sorts of websites about how

to castrate oneself, become a eunach, etc. etc., but

wouldn't wish this on anyone so not going to point

them out....

It's unfortunate that a view can't be shifted to

view as an energy/pleasure resource.

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

August 10, 2003

> > >

> > > ---------Well, we *are* different..... the

> > blessing

> > > comes in that we don't have to be ruled by those

> > > differences anymore, and have choices.

> > >

> > > Nanne

> > >

> >

> > Quite! but do you see where she came from

> > originally- that if it

> > wernt for men, women and men would be the same-

> > thats the starting

> > point for femenism, that underlying beleif of

> > sameness. oh, im sure

> > now youve pointed it out she will have all sorts of

> > rational to

> > correct her slip of the tongue, but still now the

> > secret is out.

> >

> > She said that if men didnt pass down rules onto men,

> > men are

> > terrified they would be just like women!

> >

> > thats the difference, that brand of femenism (ie

> > militant) is all

> > about changing equality from its original meaning,

> > into saying that

> > men and women are the same.

>

> -----------Well, it can be said till one is blue in

> the face, the differences are there, but we don't have

> to be ruled by them any longer.

dont get you

> >

> > masculism is about acnowledging God given

> > differences, and saying

> > that they are all groovy differences, and lets stop

> > fighting against

> > them.

> >

> > Gareth.

> >

> --------- I'd rather see terms like 'masculism' (have

> never heard it before though) not necessarily

> used....historical feminism I'm proud of, but not the

> silliness of the last fifteen years.

Admittedly masculism represents the normal view, but we are the brave

few that sre speaking the blatantly obvious. Thats as good a term as

any for us.

>

> > oh, and ill repeat, in a population of billions,

> > there will be

> > millions of obvious exceptions. thats fine, thats

> > how nature works.

> > there will be allsorts imbeetween, but the fact

> > wether its liked by

> > femenists or not is that by mean average there are

> > many many

> > wholesome differences beetween the sexes.

> >

> > and especially now that it is being suggested that

> > newly diagnosed

> > autistics and aspergics are to be directed to a

> > website all about

> > having no sexuality,

>

> --------eh? have never heard of this, where is it?

I assumed wrongly that was s point as she suggested people

going there while a big gender discussion was going on. She has

scince written to me though and assured me that she was recommending

it for the sites excellent autism content, and that any sexuality

issues are stricty a sideline on this page.

>

> without the correlate opposite

> > to allow for

> > informed choice, the virtues of manliness need to be

> > pointed out in

> > this effeminate arena now more than ever. Aspergic

> > men like myself

> > have been bullied to high heaven, (so have women by

> > being bitched

> > at). It takes corrective therapy for one not to be

> > afraid of ones

> > manliness, for fear of one immitating the bullies or

> > feeling a

> > failure.

> >

> > ones manlieness is a good thing, a very good thing.

> >

> > Gareth

> >

> ------------I consider myself having pretty much an

> androgynous brain in a highly sexual female body.

> Imagine how that leads to some highly comical anguish

> and interactions!

> My particular views on 'the patriarchy' are

> this: I'm grateful for the society that led to the

> inventions of the washing machine and refrigerator.

> Having been through that 'original purpose' of

> femaleness, pregnancy and childbirth, I acknowledge

> that burden of nature that has more of a ruling thumb

> over women's bodies than any 'patriarchal' thing today

> does.

> Anyone in modern society squawking about being

> oppressed by the patriarchy should try go living in

> some tribal society with no running water and no

> access to birth control for awhile.

or a society which practices female circumsition so the husband can

be assured of his wifes virginity. How disgusting. (im sure the

reason is a combination of that, and so she is worth more to the

family that " sells " her. how disgusting)

> In spite of all this, I still found it comical

> that you'd put your highest value in your penis and

> your paycheck. Everyone should just try to be a

> better human being, is all.

Thats how you interpret what i say because it suits you. You have

said that, not me. A man's role is to provide in my opinion. If you

associate providing with penises and paychecks, thats up to you.

>

> Nanne

August 10, 2003

Gareth Wrote:

>Quite! but do you see where she came from originally- that if it

>wernt for men, women and men would be the same- thats the starting

>point for femenism, that underlying beleif of sameness. oh, im sure

>now youve pointed it out she will have all sorts of rational to

>correct her slip of the tongue, but still now the secret is out.

>She said that if men didnt pass down rules onto men, men are

>terrified they would be just like women!

You actually really prove my point by your misunderstanding. You've already

talked about how " masculinity has a right to exist " . Isn't that what the

illusion is all about?

Men were terrified that they would be unimportant and would cease to exist,

since they could not give life and hunting skills were less important due to

agriculture. They were terrified of being given the status of a woman, and

falling out of the club because the only alternative is slavery and servitude.

Possibly even death, long ago. The club is all about creating the illusion that

men are superior, and have no attributes that women exibit during child

rearing- being half human. They are suppose to be unemotional, destructive,

callous, and especially in complete control of all that is female.

The sort of role you are insisting a woman should have is insulting - submissive

and subserviant. It is clear from your posts that you are misogynistic, whether

you are sexually attracted to fat women or not, you still want to be the " man "

in control of everything, owning your mate, controling your mate. It is

hateful. Racist slurrs are hateful and degrading as well.

>thats the difference, that brand of femenism (ie militant) is all

>about changing equality from its original meaning, into saying that

>men and women are the same.

>in other words, it attempts to equalize people out of existance

Here we go again. Your patriarchal fear is showing! Gareth, no one ever said

you don't have the right to exist. You aren't Israel, here.

Militant Feminism is about radical social change that many, mostly men, are

uncomfortable with. It's not about " changing equality " it is about affirming

equality- we are all human. And we are all individuals, but that doesn't change

the common denominator of humanity. And humans, male and female, have a full

range of emotions, etc. that cannot be defined by gender roles. Men can be

nurturing, caring, creative, tender- and have those feelings to one extent or

the other.

Social role changes make people uncomfortable, especially NT's who have bought

into strictly defined roles

>masculism is about acnowledging God given differences, and saying

>that they are all groovy differences, and lets stop fighting against

>them.

First off, I don't believe in god.

Masculism is about fear and superiority, and LIMITING males into ONE role they

MUST accept. Just by reading the posts you can see that aspies, unbounded by

limiting social conventions, are androgenous, having both male and female

interests,etc. But we are all unique.

Feminism is not about changing anyone or insisting all men HAVE to be

androgeous. It just that if given the choice, most people are. Feminisim is

about freedom to be who you are without fear of judgement. If a male happens to

lean to traditional manliness, so be it. But if he claims that he is totally

uncaring, unemotional, Mr. tough guy ALL the time, that would be unrealistic.

Sure he can be a strong " tough " guy and have traditional male interests, but I

doubt he would be totally in control all the time, uncaring, unattached and

unemotional.

If a woman is more " feminine " so what? I hope she doesn't insist on being

overly emotional to the point where it stops all functioning, or declare she is

helpless and nothing without a man.

The " typical " male-macho behaviors that are not male at all are what is

appalling- deception, manipulation and control of one's mate, violence,

objectification and degredation of women, cheating on women (males cheat 80%,

women 50% of the time), valuing money and power above all else, being totally

detached from one's emotions, and unattached to those around you to the point

where you don't give a damn about anyone, etc.

>By mean average there are many many wholesome differences beetween the sexes.

Why are you so insistant that the sexes are totally different? Why are you so

uncomfortable with the idea that they are not so different?

The virtues of manliness need to be pointed out in this effeminate arena now

more than ever.

Sounds like a misogynistic comment to me. The last thing we need is some " man "

running around insisting and forcing men to be " manly " . Sounds like you are

very uncomfortable with the " femininity " around you, but that's no surprise to

me and proves my point.

Aspergic men like myself have been bullied to high heaven

See? How could you possibly feel bullied?! If you were not SO uneasy with the

feminine, you could just be yourself. If the " bullying " you are refering to is

people getting annoyed and angered with racial slurrs, arrogance and sexist,

misogynistic comments, that has nothing to do with being male at all. That is

an attitude change that people are hoping you will try for thier sake and yours.

one not to be afraid of ones manliness, for fear of one immitating the bullies

or feeling a

failure.

What are you talking about? Fear of one's " manliness " ? How ridiculous is that?

No one said you can't have traditional male interests (some of us do) etc. But

if " manliness " is about the controling, partiarchal limited role YOU insist on

imposing upon others ( like the rude and disgusting comment you made to

about being a man and waving his parts around), you are under the patriarchal

illusion.

Jeanette

August 10, 2003

I tried to post to the list about how these two things had nothing to

do

with each other, but I think it only got sent to Gareth. (I was in a

webmail interface and it was confusing.) Basically, there's a

difference between saying, " Hi, I'm intersexed and asexual and this is

what these two things mean, " and saying, " Hi, everyone should be like

me, " and it doesn't make sense to present an " opposing viewpoint " when

describing oneself. (As I said, there's also a section on service dogs

on that page, and there's no reason the author of the page should have

to put an " opposing viewpoint " to the existence of service dogs.)

So simply put, the problem being described doesn't exist. Unless there

is a problem with saying, " Hello, I am female and I have a boyfriend

and

am heterosexual " without saying, " And there are also people in the

world

who are intersexed (of several different kinds) or male, and who are

homosexual, bisexual, or asexual. " There doesn't *need* to be an

" opposing viewpoint " for statements like that.

***********

There would not have been any need for me to bring up any opposition

to newly diagnosed people to go to an opposing site, had i not been

apalled at the vehement militant femenism i have recently discovered

in the autism world.

however, i wrongly associated this view with you, and i now see that

you were not encouraging men to forgoe their manlieness by going to

this site, you were directing them to it as it has good autistic

benefits.

however, bearing in mind the femenism i have encountered, i do

beleive that a good resource should be included in any recommended

reading for autistics and aspergics, that concentrates on the

benefits of being a man.

I would also like to say that i respect more and more as the

days go by. Usually these things are only said in a backscratching

manner, such as " well, youve said something good about me, therefore

ill repond in kind " however that attitude has no more to do with me,

so bollox. Its a good thing, so its worth saying anyway.

Gareth

August 10, 2003

> > and especially now that it is being suggested that

> > newly diagnosed

> > autistics and aspergics are to be directed to a

> > website all about

> > having no sexuality,

> --------eh? have never heard of this, where is it?

There isn't.

Or at least not the way it's depicted there.

I directed people to Jim Sinclair's website to explain the

intersexuality thing. Xe's also asexual. Xe doesn't proselytize. Xe

doesn't try to make other people asexual. Any more than xe tries to

make me have a service dog instead of a service cat just because xe

describes having a service dog.

I *also* pointed out that Jim Sinclair's site -- the *autism* part --

would be good on that list of introductory autism stuff. Because

whether you agree with everything xe says or not, xe was one of the

early autistic self-advocates and there's historical interest in a lot

of the articles (some of which are now widely published in literature on

autism) on xyr site. And it's also autism-positive, as that list of

sites was that was being formed.

I tried to post to the list about how these two things had nothing to do