Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 --- lissterm wrote: > > Also I have noticed in my classes that the > quietest kids seem to > be the most neglected. In my opinion this gives > people with more > obvious disabilities a relative advantage. > > Robbie > ---------Excellent point, and very true. My son was very quiet and never a 'behavior problem' type kid so often he fell through the cracks. It's funny also how many teachers seem to think that quieter people have something 'wrong' with them Nanne ===== " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " -- Seurat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Hi, The only time I took a BART train into and out of San Francisco the noise of going into tunnels was deafening and almost painful. I plugged my ears. I looked around and saw one woman talking blithely on a cell phone. I couldn't hear myself think, how in the world did hear the person on the cell phone?? I guess that's my disability acting up. I wish BART had a section that was quiet. I live near Sacramento. Camille > The bart trains here have special seats reserved for people with > disablities. I just thought it was a sign of the times that most > disablities are assumed to be obvious disabilities. > Also I have noticed in my classes that the quietest kids seem to > be the most neglected. In my opinion this gives people with more > obvious disabilities a relative advantage. > > Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Robbie wrote: > The bart trains here have special seats reserved for people with >disablities. I just thought it was a sign of the times that most >disablities are assumed to be obvious disabilities. > Also I have noticed in my classes that the quietest kids seem to >be the most neglected. In my opinion this gives people with more >obvious disabilities a relative advantage. If I were paraplegic or quadraplegic, I'd *want* relative advantages in all getting-around respects. My impression is that ADL (activities of daily living) take so much more time and energy for paras and quads that they need all the relative advantages society is willing to offer. That doesn't mean I can't see the problem(s) that go along with " invisible " disabilities. In schools, especially, there does need to be an emphasis on recognizing and accommodating children's needs, even for the quietest kids. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Yes, it is strange, isn't it? And contradictory. If you're too talkative in school, teachers punish you. Yet if you're too quiet, those same teachers assume you're retarded or disturbed, and treat you accordingly. Where is that " happy medium? " The visibly disabled don't necessarily get more attention. I *had* a visible disability--there's no more visible symbol than crutches or a wheelchair--and had to fight for even the tiniest accommodation. There weren't too many people willing to give me help--they viewed help as " special privileges " and had the attitude, " If you can't meet our standards exactly, then you shouldn't be here... " (as if I had another place to go). But I suppose that's a generational thing. I went to school just before--and during--the beginnings of widespread mainstreaming of the disabled. I hope things have at least changed a little. ---------Excellent point, and very true. My son was very quiet and never a 'behavior problem' type kid so often he fell through the cracks. It's funny also how many teachers seem to think that quieter people have something 'wrong' with them Nanne ===== " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " -- Seurat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Actually, nothing has changed. Those same attitudes pervade the factory model school system today. Thanks to the industrial revolution, if you can't " meet the standard " , you " don't belong " , are " priveleged " to attend, and end up being marginalized. Don't get me started! Colin Wessels. Quoting Newstead : > Yes, it is strange, isn't it? And contradictory. If you're too talkative in > school, teachers punish you. Yet if you're too quiet, those same teachers > assume you're retarded or disturbed, and treat you accordingly. Where is that > " happy medium? " > > The visibly disabled don't necessarily get more attention. I *had* a visible > disability--there's no more visible symbol than crutches or a wheelchair--and > had to fight for even the tiniest accommodation. There weren't too many > people willing to give me help--they viewed help as " special privileges " and > had the attitude, " If you can't meet our standards exactly, then you > shouldn't be here... " (as if I had another place to go). But I suppose that's > a generational thing. I went to school just before--and during--the > beginnings of widespread mainstreaming of the disabled. I hope things have at > least changed a little. > > > ---------Excellent point, and very true. My son was > very quiet and never a 'behavior problem' type kid so > often he fell through the cracks. > It's funny also how many teachers seem to think > that quieter people have something 'wrong' with them > > > Nanne > > ===== > > " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " -- > Seurat > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Hi, Yes, if you're disabled and dare to complain about anything, you're bound to get the " You should consider yourself lucky to be here... " speech. If not total apathy. The school administration pretended, in my case, to be socially progressive by allowing a " crippled child " in their schools (and felt I should be appropriately grateful) when in fact there was no alternative. What would the school district have preferred my parents to do? Send me to a " special school " someplace? Unfortunately, because I belonged to a military family, we were regularly sent to areas where no such place existed. (Like remote parts of Arizona, for instance). It was public school or nothing at all. Unfortunately, I was one of those kids who was right in the middle--too smart for a " special school " but not socially adept enough for public school. Some choices, huh? Either be intellectually starved in a school for disabled or be subject to the Social Darwinist philosophy of the public school. But boy, the schools talk a good game these days, don't they? I used to give lectures to kids on disability at schools in Colorado (not easy for me, I assure you) and the teachers went on and on about how inclusive they are, and how much the non-disabled kids love the disabled kids, etc. I couldn't help but wonder, " What are they like when you're out of the room?? " Re: invisible disablility > Actually, nothing has changed. Those same attitudes pervade the factory model > school system today. Thanks to the industrial revolution, if you can't " meet > the standard " , you " don't belong " , are " priveleged " to attend, and end up being > marginalized. > > Don't get me started! > > Colin Wessels. > > Quoting Newstead : > > > Yes, it is strange, isn't it? And contradictory. If you're too talkative in > > school, teachers punish you. Yet if you're too quiet, those same teachers > > assume you're retarded or disturbed, and treat you accordingly. Where is that > > " happy medium? " > > > > The visibly disabled don't necessarily get more attention. I *had* a visible > > disability--there's no more visible symbol than crutches or a wheelchair--and > > had to fight for even the tiniest accommodation. There weren't too many > > people willing to give me help--they viewed help as " special privileges " and > > had the attitude, " If you can't meet our standards exactly, then you > > shouldn't be here... " (as if I had another place to go). But I suppose that's > > a generational thing. I went to school just before--and during--the > > beginnings of widespread mainstreaming of the disabled. I hope things have at > > least changed a little. > > > > > > ---------Excellent point, and very true. My son was > > very quiet and never a 'behavior problem' type kid so > > often he fell through the cracks. > > It's funny also how many teachers seem to think > > that quieter people have something 'wrong' with them > > > > > > Nanne > > > > ===== > > > > " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " -- > > Seurat > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 , I would like to hear your views on " the Social Darwinist philosophy of the public school " . I believe that most of us AS ( & others with " invisible disabilities " ) were/are also " intellectually starved " in the public school system, since the factory model school system caters to the lowest common denominator. Ironically, they talk about " measuring up " , whereas it should be " measuring down " . My older son (14) has AS and my younger son (10) has ADHD/SLD; they were homeschooled for the first years of their school careers and excelled until circumstances forced us to place them in the factory model school system, when their " invisible disabilities " became more apparent. Colin W. _______________________________________ Quoting Newstead : > Hi, > > Yes, if you're disabled and dare to complain about anything, you're bound > to > get the " You should consider yourself lucky to be here... " speech. If not > total apathy. The school administration pretended, in my case, to be > socially progressive by allowing a " crippled child " in their schools (and > felt I should be appropriately grateful) when in fact there was no > alternative. > > What would the school district have preferred my parents to do? Send me to > a > " special school " someplace? Unfortunately, because I belonged to a military > family, we were regularly sent to areas where no such place existed. (Like > remote parts of Arizona, for instance). It was public school or nothing at > all. Unfortunately, I was one of those kids who was right in the > middle--too > smart for a " special school " but not socially adept enough for public > school. Some choices, huh? Either be intellectually starved in a school for > disabled or be subject to the Social Darwinist philosophy of the public > school. > > But boy, the schools talk a good game these days, don't they? I used to > give > lectures to kids on disability at schools in Colorado (not easy for me, I > assure you) and the teachers went on and on about how inclusive they are, > and how much the non-disabled kids love the disabled kids, etc. I couldn't > help but wonder, " What are they like when you're out of the room?? " > > > Re: invisible disablility > > > > Actually, nothing has changed. Those same attitudes pervade the factory > model > > school system today. Thanks to the industrial revolution, if you can't > " meet > > the standard " , you " don't belong " , are " priveleged " to attend, and end up > being > > marginalized. > > > > Don't get me started! > > > > Colin Wessels. > > > > Quoting Newstead : > > > > > Yes, it is strange, isn't it? And contradictory. If you're too > talkative > in > > > school, teachers punish you. Yet if you're too quiet, those same > teachers > > > assume you're retarded or disturbed, and treat you accordingly. Where > is > that > > > " happy medium? " > > > > > > The visibly disabled don't necessarily get more attention. I *had* a > visible > > > disability--there's no more visible symbol than crutches or a > wheelchair--and > > > had to fight for even the tiniest accommodation. There weren't too many > > > people willing to give me help--they viewed help as " special > privileges " > and > > > had the attitude, " If you can't meet our standards exactly, then you > > > shouldn't be here... " (as if I had another place to go). But I suppose > that's > > > a generational thing. I went to school just before--and during--the > > > beginnings of widespread mainstreaming of the disabled. I hope things > have at > > > least changed a little. > > > > > > > > > ---------Excellent point, and very true. My son was > > > very quiet and never a 'behavior problem' type kid so > > > often he fell through the cracks. > > > It's funny also how many teachers seem to think > > > that quieter people have something 'wrong' with them > > > > > > > > > Nanne > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " -- > > > Seurat > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 It can be summed up in three words-- " sink or swim " . It's a view that regards any help, either academically or with physical barriers, as an unfair " special privilege, " as I said before. " You say you need a ramp to get into the journalism class? Sorry, too much trouble. You'll have to find a way to manage or get out. Or maybe just accept that it isn't for you... " (I heard this a lot). or " You say you need an extra five minutes between classes? If we give that to you, we'd have to give that to everybody... " (I heard that even more). It's also a view that accepts bullying as a rite of passage, as a character-building experience ( " You'll just have to learn to handle them " , or what I heard most often, " Just ignore them. " or the ever-popular " Oh, don't be such a baby!! " Hard to do when they're flinging shrapnel from a broken pencil at you.) Of course, were the school officials cornered and asked where I in fact belonged if not the public school, they'd undoubtedly have hemmed and hawed before mumbling, " Oh, some place that meets your needs. Somewhere... " (Like an institutuion, maybe? A far-off one?) When I used the term " Social Darwinism " , I wasn't necessarily saying that the schools I went to valued academic merit. They didn't, really. If they had I'd have been treated with more respect. It was more their " adapt or perish " view of things that I struggled with. Re: invisible disablility > > > > > > > Actually, nothing has changed. Those same attitudes pervade the factory > > model > > > school system today. Thanks to the industrial revolution, if you can't > > " meet > > > the standard " , you " don't belong " , are " priveleged " to attend, and end up > > being > > > marginalized. > > > > > > Don't get me started! > > > > > > Colin Wessels. > > > > > > Quoting Newstead : > > > > > > > Yes, it is strange, isn't it? And contradictory. If you're too > > talkative > > in > > > > school, teachers punish you. Yet if you're too quiet, those same > > teachers > > > > assume you're retarded or disturbed, and treat you accordingly. Where > > is > > that > > > > " happy medium? " > > > > > > > > The visibly disabled don't necessarily get more attention. I *had* a > > visible > > > > disability--there's no more visible symbol than crutches or a > > wheelchair--and > > > > had to fight for even the tiniest accommodation. There weren't too many > > > > people willing to give me help--they viewed help as " special > > privileges " > > and > > > > had the attitude, " If you can't meet our standards exactly, then you > > > > shouldn't be here... " (as if I had another place to go). But I suppose > > that's > > > > a generational thing. I went to school just before--and during--the > > > > beginnings of widespread mainstreaming of the disabled. I hope things > > have at > > > > least changed a little. > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------Excellent point, and very true. My son was > > > > very quiet and never a 'behavior problem' type kid so > > > > often he fell through the cracks. > > > > It's funny also how many teachers seem to think > > > > that quieter people have something 'wrong' with them > > > > > > > > > > > > Nanne > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " -- > > > > Seurat > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 *** " You should consider yourself lucky to be here... " *** , I am stunned beyond words...I left school in the UK long before any kind of disabled integration was attempted...but I seriously cannot BELIEVE that degree of ignorance... ....apparently they believed that self esteem was more properly taught in the home? Gaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 > > Also I have noticed in my classes that the quietest kids seem to > be the most neglected. > > > Robbie Did anyone else get used as a buffer zone in elementary school? When my teachers had had it with chatterboxes, there was a big deal of rearranging seats so that they were in the end seat with me next to them. How handy to have a weird kid who never talks to anyone. And Aspies are supposed to be the ones who treat people as objects. Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 In elementary school when some sort of help or mentoring would have been helpful to me, my teachers seemed to pity me, but they did not intervene in the classroom when they saw that I was having social problems. The classroom environment is darwinistoc in that there are winners and loosers. Teachers must just accept that some people are natural loosers as a fact of life, because they never notified any administrators in the school, or even seemed to take an interest in my situation. This is what makes me most angry, but I think it is just a lack of awareness of aspergers syndrome, and the invisibility of the syndrome from the outside that makes it so unique. Teachers may have assumed that I had severe family problems, and that was the cause, but they would have never thought of autism because I was so high functioning and had good grades, and autistics are percieved as being severely handicapped. Robbie > > Did anyone else get used as a buffer zone in elementary school? > When my teachers had had it with chatterboxes, there was a big deal > of rearranging seats so that they were in the end seat with me next > to them. How handy to have a weird kid who never talks to anyone. And > Aspies are supposed to be the ones who treat people as objects. Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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