Re: From the American Academy of Pediatrics

[Guest guest]

>

> " Kids need exercise, just like adults. Games provide

> various types of resistance. And the Bullworker is

> just another way of providing resistance. "

>

> Sorry Gerry, if you believe this, you actually know

> nothing about isometric exercise.

>

> Do some research before you spout off bad advice.

Well, for one thing, who said the Bullworkers are only for

isometric exercise? They're just resistance gadgets, and it's

up to us how we use them. In particular, the 20-inch SB

introduced iso-motion workouts, which are not isometric.

> Note the comments on Maximal lifts etc. Isometrics

> utilize the principle of maximum tension.

>

> Hmmm

Isometrics utilize the principle of maximum tension???

Well it does seem like I know nothing about isometric exercise.

Whatever happened to only needing 60% to 70% of one's strength?

I think you should read the citation you gave, namely:

> 1. Strength training programs for preadolescents and

> adolescents can be safe and effective if proper

> resistance training techniques and safety precautions

> are followed.

Exactly what I mentioned. Any exercise can be safe and

effective. Just as any exercise can be unsafe and harmful.

The Bullworkers are excellent for " proper resistance

training techniques " when applied with " safety precautions. "

Your own citation proves you wrong.

> b b. Aerobic conditioning should be coupled with resistance

> training if general health benefits are the goal.

Notice the " SHOULD be coupled with resistance training " ?

Bullworkers are resistance gadgets, so they're perfect for this

recommendation. Just as weights would be perfect, and just as

body weight exercises would be perfect. What is important is to

apply these properly and safely.

The rest, and actually most, of the citation apparently refers

to weight or resistance training. And if one really studies it,

the recommendations apply to anyone, whether pre-adolescent or

adolescent or adult. So if you use this citation to ban BWs on

kids, you should also ban it for adults. And not only BW

training, but all resistance training. The thing is, nothing in

the citation indicates that Bullworkers and Steel Bows, or

for that matter, resistance training and isometrics, are not

for kids. In fact, the citation confirms the need for resistance

training, even in pre-adolescents.

So I don't think the advice I gave was bad advice.

We should avoid misinterpreting findings just to fit our

preferences. The citation given is clear that resistance

training is needed by everyone, even pre-adolescents. Yet you

would misapply a statement to mean that isometrics is bad.

Of course, all this is not to say that kids only do BW training.

The question was whether the 20-inch SB is okay for kids. And

based on the citation you yourself gave, the answer is, " Yes! "

Gerry

[Guest guest]

There we go on our old argument over bullworker being an isometricdevice/ resistance gadget.....

I, before commenting here, did tryisotonic workouts with my bullworker. And I feel that I could do betterwith resistance bands or my old pair of dumbbells. But again, Gerry isGerry.....

BTW, check out that big grin on 's face:)

Quoting knuj_gse@...:

> --- Inbullworkerclub , "rrbelloff"

wrote:

>

> "Kids need exercise, just like adults. Games provide

>various types of resistance. And the Bullworker is

> just another wayof providing resistance."

>

> Sorry Gerry, if you believe this, youactually know

> nothing about isometric exercise.

>

> Do someresearch before you spout off bad advice.

Well, for one thing, whosaid the Bullworkers are only for

isometric exercise? They're justresistance gadgets, and it's

up to us how we use them. In particular,the 20-inch SB

introduced iso-motion workouts, which are notisometric.

> Note the comments on Maximal lifts etc. Isometrics

>utilize the principle of maximum tension.

>

> Hmmm

Isometricsutilize the principle of maximum tension???

Well it does seem like Iknow nothing about isometric exercise.

Whatever happened to onlyneeding 60% to 70% of one's strength?

I think you should read thecitation you gave, namely:

> 1. Strength training programs forpreadolescents and

> adolescents can be safe and effective if proper

>resistance training techniques and safety precautions

> are followed.

Exactly what I mentioned. Any exercise can be safe and

effective.Just as any exercise can be unsafe and harmful.

The Bullworkers areexcellent for "proper resistance

training techniques" when appliedwith "safety precautions."

Your own citation proves you wrong.

> bb. Aerobic conditioning should be coupled with resistance

> training ifgeneral health benefits are the goal.

Notice the "SHOULD be coupledwith resistance training"?

Bullworkers are resistance gadgets, sothey're perfect for this

recommendation. Just as weights would beperfect, and just as

body weight exercises would be perfect. What isimportant is to

apply these properly and safely.

The rest, andactually most, of the citation apparently refers

to weight orresistance training. And if one really studies it,

the recommendationsapply to anyone, whether pre-adolescent or

adolescent or adult. So ifyou use this citation to ban BWs on

kids, you should also ban it foradults. And not only BW

training, but all resistance training. Thething is, nothing in

the citation indicates that Bullworkers and SteelBows, or

for that matter, resistance training and isometrics, are not

for kids. In fact, the citation confirms the need for resistance

training, even in pre-adolescents.

So I don't think the advice Igave was bad advice.

We should avoid misinterpreting findings justto fit our

preferences. The citation given is clear that resistance

training is needed by everyone, even pre-adolescents. Yet you

wouldmisapply a statement to mean that isometrics is bad.

Of course, allthis is not to say that kids only do BW training.

The question waswhether the 20-inch SB is okay for kids. And

based on the citation youyourself gave, the answer is, "Yes!"

Gerry

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[Guest guest]

> I, before commenting here, did try isotonic workouts

> with my bullworker. And I feel that I could do better

> with resistance bands or my old pair of dumbbells.

Definitely, we could do better in some moves using other

gadgets. I still do squats and push-ups myself, as well as

Roman chairs and leg raises. But the question of the

original post of the thread was whether or not the 20-inch

Steel Bow can be used by an 8 year old. And that's what

was being addressed.

By the way, how did you do isotonics with the Bullworker?

Have you tried the so-called iso-motion? or did you just

do reps on a virtually motionless BW?

Gerry

[Guest guest]

By any standard, the BW is not a very good isotonic device, but great

as an isometric one.

Gerry believes otherwise, but the standards he applies to it are

weird at best.

Such is life.

> >

> > " Kids need exercise, just like adults. Games provide

> > various types of resistance. And the Bullworker is

> > just another way of providing resistance. "

> >

> > Sorry Gerry, if you believe this, you actually know

> > nothing about isometric exercise.

> >

> > Do some research before you spout off bad advice.

>

> Well, for one thing, who said the Bullworkers are only for

> isometric exercise? They're just resistance gadgets, and it's

> up to us how we use them. In particular, the 20-inch SB

> introduced iso-motion workouts, which are not isometric.

>

> > Note the comments on Maximal lifts etc. Isometrics

> > utilize the principle of maximum tension.

> >

> > Hmmm

>

> Isometrics utilize the principle of maximum tension???

>

> Well it does seem like I know nothing about isometric exercise.

> Whatever happened to only needing 60% to 70% of one's strength?

>

> I think you should read the citation you gave, namely:

>

> > 1. Strength training programs for preadolescents and

> > adolescents can be safe and effective if proper

> > resistance training techniques and safety precautions

> > are followed.

>

> Exactly what I mentioned. Any exercise can be safe and

> effective. Just as any exercise can be unsafe and harmful.

> The Bullworkers are excellent for " proper resistance

> training techniques " when applied with " safety precautions. "

> Your own citation proves you wrong.

>

> > b b. Aerobic conditioning should be coupled with resistance

> > training if general health benefits are the goal.

>

> Notice the " SHOULD be coupled with resistance training " ?

>

> Bullworkers are resistance gadgets, so they're perfect for this

> recommendation. Just as weights would be perfect, and just as

> body weight exercises would be perfect. What is important is to

> apply these properly and safely.

>

> The rest, and actually most, of the citation apparently refers

> to weight or resistance training. And if one really studies it,

> the recommendations apply to anyone, whether pre-adolescent or

> adolescent or adult. So if you use this citation to ban BWs on

> kids, you should also ban it for adults. And not only BW

> training, but all resistance training. The thing is, nothing in

> the citation indicates that Bullworkers and Steel Bows, or

> for that matter, resistance training and isometrics, are not

> for kids. In fact, the citation confirms the need for resistance

> training, even in pre-adolescents.

>

> So I don't think the advice I gave was bad advice.

>

> We should avoid misinterpreting findings just to fit our

> preferences. The citation given is clear that resistance

> training is needed by everyone, even pre-adolescents. Yet you

> would misapply a statement to mean that isometrics is bad.

>

> Of course, all this is not to say that kids only do BW training.

> The question was whether the 20-inch SB is okay for kids. And

> based on the citation you yourself gave, the answer is, " Yes! "

>

> Gerry

>

[Guest guest]

Surely the issue here is why would you put an 8 year old on any sort of

resistance work? At that age, kids should be developing motor skills

and co-ordination by playing sport - learning to run, jump, throw,

balance etc. and it should all be fun. Kids will get all the exercise

they need through this sort of activity, and non-bodyweight resistance

training can be deferred until a little later in their development.

The overriding emphasis should be on fun, though. Young kids have short

attention spans, and so any training needs to provide variety and be

fun.

[Guest guest]

I would agree with you on this. When kids simply play physical games

and sports, they do get resistance exercise. However, the intensity of

this is appropriate to their developmental stage.

Working on the BW is inappropriate in my book.

Why risk it when there are so many natural movements to benefit from?

>

> Surely the issue here is why would you put an 8 year old on any sort

of

> resistance work? At that age, kids should be developing motor skills

> and co-ordination by playing sport - learning to run, jump, throw,

> balance etc. and it should all be fun. Kids will get all the exercise

> they need through this sort of activity, and non-bodyweight

resistance

> training can be deferred until a little later in their development.

>

> The overriding emphasis should be on fun, though. Young kids have

short

> attention spans, and so any training needs to provide variety and be

> fun.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm with Gerry on this one...

The BW can be used effectively by any age-group/gender.

Show a kid a BW phsique and they will be more than interested,

and given the right advice (don't try too hard!) it's probably one of

the easiest and safest ways of starting them on the right track.

I only wish that I had started earlier than 17...

I agree that kids need to play, but by their very nature they also

want to emulate their elders.

Note - no technical advice here - just my experience of both the

BW and kids...

fult.

> >

> > Surely the issue here is why would you put an 8 year old on

any sort

> of

> > resistance work? At that age, kids should be developing

motor skills

> > and co-ordination by playing sport - learning to run, jump,

throw,

> > balance etc. and it should all be fun. Kids will get all the

exercise

> > they need through this sort of activity, and non-bodyweight

> resistance

> > training can be deferred until a little later in their

development.

> >

> > The overriding emphasis should be on fun, though. Young

kids have

> short

> > attention spans, and so any training needs to provide variety

and be

> > fun.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Let me be more specific about this.

If you want an 8 yr old kid to use the SB like an expander and fart

around with it, fine. Likely he won't do any harm or for that matter,

any good pushing it through its tiny ROM.

Regarding isomotion, I have no opinion, I tried it, I hated it. I

doubt he could hurt himself but he might die from boredom.

Specific to an 8 yr old doing near maximal iso contractions on

ANYTHING, I believe the science would suggest that this is a no/no.

Bones are developing, tendons and tissues are soft, and hormones are

not in gear.

Lets leave the unprofessional advice by the wayside and let's not

risk the kids muscle/tendon/ligaments just yet.

There is plenty of time when he gets older to screw his body up. If

he really wants to " build muscle " situps and pushups are pretty safe

and will do a decent job.

> > >

> > > Surely the issue here is why would you put an 8 year old on

> any sort

> > of

> > > resistance work? At that age, kids should be developing

> motor skills

> > > and co-ordination by playing sport - learning to run, jump,

> throw,

> > > balance etc. and it should all be fun. Kids will get all the

> exercise

> > > they need through this sort of activity, and non-bodyweight

> > resistance

> > > training can be deferred until a little later in their

> development.

> > >

> > > The overriding emphasis should be on fun, though. Young

> kids have

> > short

> > > attention spans, and so any training needs to provide variety

> and be

> > > fun.

> > >

> >

>