RE: exercise, tingles, and weakness

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

>They tell me I'm primary progressive and I think they're right since I

>don't

>have any remissions or high or lows. But, I DO get more tingling in my

>legs

>when I go out to walk. (Actually, that started when I was about 35, long

>before I had any other MS symptoms, and I had no idea that was an MS

>symptom

>at the time. I just thought it was a funny sensation that I only got after

>exercise.) Anyway, I thought that when we exercise, we are causing those

>'ragged' nerve pathways to send signals more continuously, therefore

>causing

>increased tingling due to additional nerve function. In other words, more

>repetitions of the nerve circuitry from more movement, so more rounds of

>tingling.....put that all together and you get increased tingling

>sensations.

> Makes sense to me anyway.

>Carol

Carol:

This deduction makes sense to me as well. Probably a combination of more

activity, therefore more firing plus more activity therefore more fatigue

therefore more dysfunctional firifng therefore more tingling. Something like

that!

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[Guest guest]

Dave wrote:

>Yes, I would say diet is the primary treatment my wife is using at the

>moment. It looks like no saturated fat, and some EFA, plus a few vitamins

>(D and B12 for sure), and antioxidants. My wife is adamantly vegetarian.

>The constraints are a bit hard to manage because she is also suffering from

>Candida, so it makes hard to figure out what to eat sometimes. We are

>starting to look into sprouts. We have been reading Swank, the Best Bet

>Diet, and Pitchford.

Dear Dave;

I am not familiar with the Swank diet or Pitchford, but it sounds like

if your wife is focussing on diet, and is aware that she has Candida issues,

that she is on the right track. There have been several discussions in the

past on this site of a syndrome called " Leaky Gut " . It is a very interesting

hypothesis of what causeds M.S. in the first place. I am convinced that in

my case, it is the primary reason that I have M.S., along with the fact that

I have a tremendously high mercury reading, most likely from amalgam

fillings and eating fish. Carol has a connection to a site that talks about

Leaky Gut, or run a web search.

You have probably just read the e-mail I sent today outlining Living Foods

and Dr. Ann Wigmore, so I won't repeat myself. There is an Ann Wigmore

foundation and a Hippocrates Institute that both continue the work of Ann

Wigmore and provide information and workshops on Living Foods. If you run a

search on the web, you will pull up several different sites.

My diet has become increasingly strict and totally 100% raw. I can totally

relate to your wife's dilemma about trying to figure out what to eat. I

myself are down to some very basic ingredients, but I find the change in my

overall health and my M.S. symptoms is profound. Even my husband, who was

" healthy " to begin with, has switched over to this diet as well. He also

notices a tremendous improvement in his health.

The concept of eating raw is all about high enzyme content and high

nutritional value and eating a slightly alkyine diet rather than the

Standard American Diet, which is very acidic. This allows the body to

balance, function properly, eliminates food allergies, eliminates candida

and rebuilds the immune system. It also cures Leaky Gut. I am convinced in

the long run, along with raising the level of consciousness of my immune

system ( another conversation!), that this will cure my M.S..

I have to say the other thing that appeals to me about this diet, is that it

is food based only. There are no vitamins, supplements, minerals, tinctures,

nothing. Essentially, you get everything you need out of the food, and you

give it to your body in a very easily digestable form. It is training your

body to get what it needs out of food, makes it " work out " , rather than

babying it with nutrients in vitamin form. Vitamins and supplements work,

but they create a system that is reliant on the vitamins and supplements to

feel optimal. A very expensive and in the long run, deliterious route to go.

Mind you, that's just my opinion!

Eat green, eat clean!

Cooked food is dead food!

95% raw, 95% healthier.... 100% raw, 1000% healthier!

I am sure you get the picture!

Best Regards;

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[Guest guest]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me their experience with root-canal removal also??

Cheers from Cat xx

I had a root canal tooth removed and noticed no difference afterwards, but I'm glad it's gone. It must have taken some stress off my system.......I imagine it would take awhile to notice any results, since your system would have to have a chance to rebuild. I just had it done last summer.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear ms-buddies,

I also have the increase in symptoms, tingling and slight co-ordination

difficulties after exercise. I find that this is only due to the heat

gathered in your body through the exertion- if i keep a cold pack with me to

cool down or remove layers or even stop for a few minutes it helps to calm

my system once again and then i carry on. I don't believe that exertion in

any way is detrimental to us unless one goes totally overboard and pushes

themselves in the gym etc. I was wondering if anyone could tell me their

experience with root-canal removal also??

Cheers from Cat xx

>

>Reply-To: mscured

>To: mscured

>Subject: Re: exercise, tingles, and weakness

>Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:57:57 +0000

>

>Carol wrote;

> >

> >But, does it apply to exercise too? That is very understandable for

>foods.

> >I know there are an awful lot of foods that increase my symptoms, and I

> >avoid

> >them. But, I also know MANY people who exercise with MS, and DO push

> >through

> >the increased symptoms with very good results, myself included. It's

> >different from stressing yourself too much, eating the wrong thints, or

> >becoming too fatigued.

> >Carol

>

>

>Dear Carol;

>This has also been my experience. I think there is a danger to avoiding

>exercise, because this will just lead to atrophy of the muscles, which will

>make our physical condition even worse. Plus didn't someone in the group

>comment that our bodies are amazing at finding alternate neural pathways to

>compensate for damaged ones? How can we train our bodies to do this unless

>we exercise?

>The thought has crossed my mind to even attempt to increase my tolorance to

>heat and hot water. I know everyone tells me to stay away from hot water,

>but I feel if the increase in my symptoms is only temporary, maybe I can

>acclamate my nerves to cope with the heat? I have to admitt, I relly miss

>taking a hot tub and a steam! Heat to me is such a healing thing!

>Plus, I love these medical studies that draw these conclusions... how could

>you possibly run a proper experiment to prove that exersion causes an

>increase in symptoms? There are so many other factors involved, it would be

>impossible to isolate just one factor! We're back to the validity of

>scientific research and findings....definately questionable.

>

>Regar

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[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

>

> and Dave,

>The Swank diet was the first one I used. It's just basically low in

>saturated fat - no red meat or dairy, except skim milk. But, they eat

>gluten. However, he at least had a 35 year record of keeping his patients

>only deteriorating by 2%.

>

>I seem to be in the same boat as you, , in that I believe Leaky Gut

>has

>been my main problem, but it may have been caused by mercury poisoning.

>

>Here is the best article I've seen to date on Leaky Gut. It's so easy for

>the lay person to understand and yet so complete in information. They sell

>a

>few products, but I really don't think it's the main reason for the site.

>They have articles on many different things, which I will get back to

>reading

>eventually. I'm sending links to both the main page with all the articles

>and the article on Leaky Gut.

>Carol

Hi Carol;

I knew you would have the best link to Leaky Gut! BTW, my eyes were about

the same today, maybe a bit less watery. I laid off the computer print out

of phone numbers today, which probably helped.

Regards;

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[Guest guest]

Dave wrote:

>Thanks Carol for the link. I have come across this link recently - and yes

>it is a fascinating article, many of his other articles are also very good

>-

>for example the womens issues page.

>

>So, could you tell me how you got measured for murcury poisoning?

Dear Dave;

I went to a Naturopath who specialized in Chelation Therapy. Basically how

chelation works, is the naturopath figures out what heavy metals are present

in your system, then he selects a chelating agent that he puts into your

bloodstream by intravenous. The chelating agent attatches itself to the

heavy metal molecules and drags them out of your body by eliminating them

when you urinate.

The first step of this process is a simple blood test. Then you go back for

the first intravenous run of the chelating agent. The Naturopath gives you a

bucket and tell you to pee everything in a six hour span of time into the

bucket. then you bring the bucket back to the Naturopath and he tests the

urine for heavy metal content ( and anything else he wants to test for as

well).

I went through this process, which wasn't cheap, but I did get the

information that a safe murcury reading is anything below a 12. My murcury

reading is a 44. Not the highest he had ever see, but very high.

The Naturopath wanted to start me immediately on a chelation program, but I

did not go that route.

Why? Mainly because when the chelating molecule attaches to the heavy metal

molecule, it makes a big fat molecule. when these mega-molecules go through

your kidneys on the way out of your body, they put a lot of strain on your

kidney functioning.

My kidneys, as many people who suffer from M.S. are totally hooped from the

chronic UTI and kidney infections I have had over the years. I did not want

to stress them out any more than necessary.

There are more natural, softer ways of chelating, none of which I am very

familiar with, but I know that wheatgrass is a slow, natural chelating

agent, and will help over the long run. I am also focussed on gettng my

amalgams removed, and will follow a similar route to Ed, who has a

tremendous amount of knowledge about safe amalgam removal.

Regards;'

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[Guest guest]

Dave wrote:

>Yes, from the journey to the inside of " my " gut article, and the treatment

>suggested I was getting the picture of the need for enzymes in raw food.

>

>As we stumble around, trying different things, it looks for the moment that

> Pitchford's book is the best resource we have found yet ('though we

>are

>just starting to look around) especially for a vegetarian diet.

>

>Pitchford bases his work on his understanding of traditional far eastern

>paradigms of health, and healthy eating. He was the first author we found

>who devoted a lot of attention to Candida. He favors sprouts. He has a

>small section on MS - foods to strenghen and tone the organs (from the Far

>Easter 5 element theory system) that are implicated in MS. His book is

>called " Healing with Whole Foods " so he also downplays suppliments in favor

>of whole foods.

Dear Dave:

You may also want to check out Dr. Cousens book called Conscious

Eating. It is by far the most thorough book that critiques every alternative

diet out there, and gives a great 4 step process to transitioning to a

healthier diet. Transition time is important, cause body detoxing can be

overwhelming in itself. Dr. Cousens is a medical doctor, and a

meta-physisist. Interesting combination. He is also very interested in the

Essene Movement, and talks just as much about spiritual issure as he does

about enzymes etc. Great book.

Regards;

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[Guest guest]

Dave wrote:

>Yes, I have had a look at the best bet diet, and trip over the emphasis on

>meat, since my wife is a commited vegetarian. The w-3 EFAs can be had from

>flax-oil, but getting protein is another question. The theories on the

>Blood Barrier (BBB) are fascinating, and in accord with recent

>evidence from serial MRI scans that show most new lesions occur at the same

>place, and at the same time that there is a breach in the BBB. One school

>of thought is that antioxidants, of the PCO, and proanthocyanidine types

>are

>protective for the BBB. A proper diet should take care of this, but one

>reference I saw (I don't have the details), indicated that *depending on

>your GI flora* most of these antioxidants are metabolized in the gut and

>never get into the blood. I would like to know if this is Candida at work.

Dear Dave;

The Living Foods approach to your question is this:

When you eat cooked foods and animal products, you create an acidic mucous

filled intestinal environment. This causes many problems: you are familiar

with Candida and Leaky Gut, but this type of intestinal environment makes it

difficult to break down and assimilate the nutrients that are left in our

food after cooking the hell out of it. We are essentially a nation of

overeaters that are undernourished! Not only are antioxidents metabolized in

the gut and never get into the blood, even big meat and protein eaters, most

of the protein in this scenario doesn't get assimilated properly. People are

ingesting this stuff, the protein actually leaches calcium out of the

system, the protein doesn't get absorbed at all, or gets absorbed without

being digested properly, and then you have an animal graveyard in your

stomach of rotting meat!

Raw foodists get lots of protein from vegetables, nuts and seeds. The

difference is that half a pound of kale has 12 grams of protein in it, but

this protein actually gets broken down and absorbed properly into your body

when you eat raw, cause your intestinal tract is clean! No mucous, no

candida, balanced acid-slightly alkyline environment. The Cousens

book I reccomended actually devotes many chapters to this issue. Also issue

on B-12 vitamins and calcium.

Check it out!

regards

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for reply- can I ask what you got in instead of tooth when root-

canal was removed?? Mine is right at the front and will be very conscious if

I have to wear false tooth for a while!!

Miss Vanity!!!

>From: Cah819@...

>Reply-To: mscured

>To: mscured

>Subject: Re: exercise, tingles, and weakness

>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:06:56 EST

>

>In a message dated 2/12/02 12:10:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,

>mcgcat@... writes:

>

>

> > I was wondering if anyone could tell me their

> > experience with root-canal removal also??

> > Cheers from Cat xx

> >

> >

>

>I had a root canal tooth removed and noticed no difference afterwards, but

>I'm glad it's gone. It must have taken some stress off my system.......I

>imagine it would take awhile to notice any results, since your system would

>have to have a chance to rebuild. I just had it done last summer.

>Carol

CAT XX

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for reply- can I ask what you got in instead of tooth when root- canal was removed?? Mine is right at the front and will be very conscious if I have to wear false tooth for a while!!

Miss Vanity!!!

Mine were molars. I have two missing molars on the top right and I have plastic, (I guess - they made it from material I tested ok with), sort of 'bridge' that fits very snugly into the space and looks totally natural. It's easily removable for cleaning etc. On my upper left, I am missing one small molar, but it doesn't cause me any problems. Only one of those three teeth had a root canal. The other two I had pulled, just because there wasn't enough tooth left to do anymore fillings. I would definitely have a tooth made to replace an extracted tooth in the front.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol and LEASLIE,

Even if you do not agree with the type of meat used in the ER4YT

DIET,It might be useful,in other ways ,because it looks at 200 other foods and tells which are most likely to suit,

Elaine,

I DO keep D'Adamo's recommendations for my blood type in mind when choosing some foods. In other words, I follow him to a degree. He is pretty convincing to me in that the very diseases he says B blood types are subject to and not subject to jibe with my family history - we are mostly Bs. He says Bs are much less apt to get cancer - there is almost no cancer in my family going back for generations. He says we are NOT prone to getting most contagious diseases - that's us. He says we are MORE susceptible to autoimmune diseases - us again. He says we don't suffer much in the way of diabetes or heart disease - us again. He says we are not really short in any vitamins, except magnesium - fits my profile to a "T". But, he says we are MORE susceptible to things like yeast infections, candida etc. That's also true. It would be pretty darn hard for me to refute all that. My only problem is that I couldn't live, going totally by his recommendations, because I've tried it and can't deal with only eating turkey and fish, (too much mercury in fish and I don't like it anyway, and turkey is just too dry for every meal use for me) - the other meats are not available or palatable at all to me. I can't fill in for protein with dairy, because of the MS diet, and most all grains are out too. After cutting out all the foods I must cut out, due to my MS diet, and then having to cut out all the avoids per D'Adamo, I couldn't exist.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol and LEASLIE,

Even if you do not agree with the type of meat used in the ER4YT

DIET,It might be useful,in other ways ,because it looks at 200 other foods

and tells which are most likely to suit,

Also, it mentions which kinds of exercise are most beneficial.

sunflower oil,could well be replaced by OLIVE OIL,for example,

Regarding exercise, it is necessary to do some form, otherwise

if you have to use a wheelchair, as I have had to , recently.Your body will

begin to 'seize up'

THIS MAY MEAN, that someone will have to help me in and out of bed

which I can DO AT THE MOMENT!

Elaine

>

>Reply-To: mscured

>To: mscured

>Subject: Re: exercise, tingles, and weakness

>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:48:13 +0000

>

>Carol wrote:

>

> >,

> >No, I don't have a dehydrator, or really any of the equipment you use. I

> >DO

> >wish I had a Champion juicer, though.

> >

> >The recipes DO sound delicious, though I don't know what hijiki is. Is

>it

> >anything like jicama? I was thinking of jicama while reading the recipe,

> >and

> >that sounded good. I think I will try them. I get in a rut too, and am

> >always looking for new recipes I can use. I'd love to get more from you,

> >because I think that is the area I'm lacking in - veggies and good

>recipes

> >for them. I eat veggies two or three times a day, but it seems like you

> >can

> >never get enough to be healthy, so I understand the theories behind what

> >you're doing. I live in a small house, though and have absolutely no

>room

> >to

> >do sprouting. I've been contemplating doing it this spring and summer

>out

> >on

> >my patio, however.

> >

> >I know how you're feeling about food - I try to keep the philosophy that

>I

> >eat to live, not live to eat. If you don't maintain that philosophy, you

> >are

> >constantly feeling deprived of what you used to eat. I don't eat dried

> >fruit, because of candida issues, but I have a problem when I eat too

>many

> >nuts too. With me, they actually can give me diarrhea. I have to watch

>it

> >with seeds too. Plus, I seem to become allergic to some nuts and seeds

> >fairly easily. I have been allergic to almonds and sunflower in the

>past.

> >I

> >also have the same weight losing issues, but lately I've been eating

> >guacamole to help keep weight on. It works quite well for me.

> >

> >I'm assuming the yams or sweet potatoes are grated raw too?

> >Carol

>

>Hi Carol;

>Hijiki is actually a seaweed. I find it in the health food store in the

>fresh veggie section. It's usually packaged . It looks like hard black thin

>spagetinni. You need to soak it before eating. This softens and expands the

>amount to about double what it is dry.

>Yes, all of the ingredients in my recipies are all raw.

>I alos eat about two avocados a day in one form or another. I can totally

>relate to the nuts and seeds issue, but I find soaking them and eating a

>raw

>foods diet takes care of the allergy issues. Nuts are hard to digest, which

>is why they lead to digestive problems. These are resolved by soaking nuts

>overnight. Almonds soak especially well.

>

>P.S. I have been having trouble with the vision in my right eye today. I

>feel that the peripheral vision to the right of my right eye is blurry and

>my eye is watering a lot. does this sound M.S. related or do you thing

>maybe

>it's more a form of a virus or something like Pink Eye?

>

>Regards;

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

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[Guest guest]

P.S. Interpretaing scientific information, as we have discussed in the past can be awfully tricky. People's personal bias' and religious beliefs are also schrouded in the guise of scientific research. I enjoy as always the journey to find the truth and how that relates to each and everyone of us.

Regards;

,

I know just what you're saying and I wholeheartedly agree. That is just exactly why I posted those articles. I had hoped that I made it clear that's what I was doing, when I said that people should be well informed and read both sides of the issue and here was the other side. I wouldn't have all the information I do, if it wasn't for the fact that I read all sides of each issue and then make a decision for myself. It's the same with aspartame. I was inclined to believe only the hype forwards that circulate so rampantly on the web. Finally, I realized I was getting a lopsided version of the issue. Then I did some research on the other side, of which there is not alot, because it really is a pretty simple issue. But, when I read the other side, I could see that what I had been reading was mostly hysteria, with little evidence to back it up. And that the other side had much more solid scientific evidence, much of which was backed up by my own knowledge of the fundamentals involved, ie. how amino acids work etc. It's been the same for me with vegetarianism too. I was somewhat convinced that it was the way to go at one time. But, then I just 'tripped' over some other articles, and became very intrigued. Now, I firmly believe it is a mistake, even though I tried it for a few months. I DID find that I did not do well on it, even in the short term of a few months. I sincerely believe that some people can do better on it than others, and I suspect that has to do with blood type. A meat eater blood type, I believe, will feel the weakness quite soon.....that's what happened to me. I literally felt like I was starving, even though I was eating gobs of food.

Carol