RE: exercise, tingles, and weakness

[Guest guest]

Jatra,

It has never hurt me to push it. In fact, I think it has helped me to push myself a little. We shouldn't do it to the extreme, but I'd never have built up to walking 2 miles a day, if I hadn't pushed right through the tingling and weakness, stiffness etc., when they occured.

Carol

Hi, I'm new to all this, so my first question is very basic. I notice that when I walk a few blocks, my tingles increase, and after a while longer, my legs start to feel a bit weak. This isn't the case all the time, however, though I still haven't figured out the pattern.

What I'm wondering is, if I push it, am I risking only a temporary increase in symptoms, or longer-term problems? It's not that I enjoy the increase in any case, but I want to assess the risk.

thanks, jatra

[Guest guest]

I have read from the www.msonly.org , a site that does monthly compilation

of the scientific literature having to do with MS, has an article that says

that anything that produces any increase in symptoms - even existing

symptoms is associated with further degeneration.

http://www.msonly.org/reports.html#REMYELINATION

But, does it apply to exercise too? That is very understandable for foods. I know there are an awful lot of foods that increase my symptoms, and I avoid them. But, I also know MANY people who exercise with MS, and DO push through the increased symptoms with very good results, myself included. It's different from stressing yourself too much, eating the wrong thints, or becoming too fatigued. Carol

[Guest guest]

The sensation of tingling and numbness are due to the uneveness of the O.P.cells that have remyelinated. They are not as big and fluffy as the original proteins nor as evenly spaced, and therefore the messeges running through the nerves don't run as smoothly or as efficiently.

,

That is very interesting and something I didn't know. I'm glad to hear that.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol;

This has also been my experience. I think there is a danger to avoiding exercise, because this will just lead to atrophy of the muscles, which will make our physical condition even worse. Plus didn't someone in the group comment that our bodies are amazing at finding alternate neural pathways to compensate for damaged ones? How can we train our bodies to do this unless we exercise?

The thought has crossed my mind to even attempt to increase my tolorance to heat and hot water. I know everyone tells me to stay away from hot water, but I feel if the increase in my symptoms is only temporary, maybe I can acclamate my nerves to cope with the heat? I have to admitt, I relly miss taking a hot tub and a steam! Heat to me is such a healing thing!

Plus, I love these medical studies that draw these conclusions... how could you possibly run a proper experiment to prove that exersion causes an increase in symptoms? There are so many other factors involved, it would be impossible to isolate just one factor! We're back to the validity of scientific research and findings....definately questionable.

Regards;

,

I feel the same way you do about all of that. And, yes, I have read that the body does find alternative pathways to send the nerve signals. The only hang up is that it is sometimes slower.

I have done pretty well with heat. It used to bother me alot more than it does now, and I no longer really pay much attention to it. I do have a problem sitting in intense sunny heat, though, because I get a red sort of blotchy rash from it. I can only sit in the sun for about 20 minutes or so.

I agree about research. The more I've thought about any research, the more room I see for error. That's a little scary when we base so much of what we do on other's research.......like the medical research.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote;

>

>But, does it apply to exercise too? That is very understandable for foods.

>I know there are an awful lot of foods that increase my symptoms, and I

>avoid

>them. But, I also know MANY people who exercise with MS, and DO push

>through

>the increased symptoms with very good results, myself included. It's

>different from stressing yourself too much, eating the wrong thints, or

>becoming too fatigued.

>Carol

Dear Carol;

This has also been my experience. I think there is a danger to avoiding

exercise, because this will just lead to atrophy of the muscles, which will

make our physical condition even worse. Plus didn't someone in the group

comment that our bodies are amazing at finding alternate neural pathways to

compensate for damaged ones? How can we train our bodies to do this unless

we exercise?

The thought has crossed my mind to even attempt to increase my tolorance to

heat and hot water. I know everyone tells me to stay away from hot water,

but I feel if the increase in my symptoms is only temporary, maybe I can

acclamate my nerves to cope with the heat? I have to admitt, I relly miss

taking a hot tub and a steam! Heat to me is such a healing thing!

Plus, I love these medical studies that draw these conclusions... how could

you possibly run a proper experiment to prove that exersion causes an

increase in symptoms? There are so many other factors involved, it would be

impossible to isolate just one factor! We're back to the validity of

scientific research and findings....definately questionable.

Regards;

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[Guest guest]

Hi Carol:

Thanks for the messege. By the way, I have basically gotton my diet down to energy soup and salads. Once a week we make more complicated dinners from raw food cook books, and I eat Essene breads and dehydrated sprouted buckwheat ( buckwheaties!) for breakfast.

My diet is very repetative and very simple. Food has become something that I use to heal myself and I have let go of all of the emotional reasons why I used to eat before my illness. My only issue with my diet is the struggle to keep my weight up. I find that nuts and dried fruit allow me to put on weight, but I have major issues with gas when I eat these things in large quantities! I have found that harvesting and hulling my own sunflower and buckwheat greens have given me extreme energy and made a huge difference in my energy soup. I add cilantro for extra flavour, and even though I eat the damn stuff twice a day, my mouth waters everytime I whip up a bowl!

I find that eating this way I get all of the results I want without the use of vitamins, supplements or herbs. I am curious to try bach flower remedies cause they are part of the whole vibrational healing thing that I am interested in exploring right now, and those tinctures I will make up myself.

I tried two new salad recipies this week that were fantastic and wanted to pass them along:

Hijiki-Yam Medley:

1 cup hijiki, soaked for 30 minutes

2 cups grated yam or sweet potato

4 tbsp. soaked sunflower or pumpkin seeds ( soak for 1 hour)

1 tbsp. seseme oil

2 tsp. grated ginger

2 tsp. tamari ( I use Shoyu)

Pinch of cinamon

Drain soaked ingredients. Put all ingredients in a small bowl, toss and serve. Big hit at my house!

Ginger Beets

2 cups grated beets ( raw, of course!)

2 tsp grated ginger

1 tbsp. maple syrup ( optional)

1 tbsp. tamari ( shoyu)

1. tbsp. tahini

1 tsp. lemon juice

Combine wet ingredients first and blend. Add in dry ingredients. Toss, let stand for ten minutes and serve.

These recipies come from a book called The Raw Gourmet by Noni from Alive Books. Tell me if you like the recipies, I'll look for more that don't involve major amounts of sprouting or dehydrating. Do you have a dehydrator?

Regards;

,

No, I don't have a dehydrator, or really any of the equipment you use. I DO wish I had a Champion juicer, though.

The recipes DO sound delicious, though I don't know what hijiki is. Is it anything like jicama? I was thinking of jicama while reading the recipe, and that sounded good. I think I will try them. I get in a rut too, and am always looking for new recipes I can use. I'd love to get more from you, because I think that is the area I'm lacking in - veggies and good recipes for them. I eat veggies two or three times a day, but it seems like you can never get enough to be healthy, so I understand the theories behind what you're doing. I live in a small house, though and have absolutely no room to do sprouting. I've been contemplating doing it this spring and summer out on my patio, however.

I know how you're feeling about food - I try to keep the philosophy that I eat to live, not live to eat. If you don't maintain that philosophy, you are constantly feeling deprived of what you used to eat. I don't eat dried fruit, because of candida issues, but I have a problem when I eat too many nuts too. With me, they actually can give me diarrhea. I have to watch it with seeds too. Plus, I seem to become allergic to some nuts and seeds fairly easily. I have been allergic to almonds and sunflower in the past. I also have the same weight losing issues, but lately I've been eating guacamole to help keep weight on. It works quite well for me.

I'm assuming the yams or sweet potatoes are grated raw too?

Carol

[Guest guest]

The thought has crossed my mind to even attempt to increase my tolorance to

heat and hot water. I know everyone tells me to stay away from hot water,

but I feel if the increase in my symptoms is only temporary, maybe I can

acclamate my nerves to cope with the heat? I have to admitt, I relly miss

taking a hot tub and a steam! Heat to me is such a healing thing!

,

I have done just that, I can take a very warm bath now and also I am much better in the heat, although not the really hot humid days.

I did it by increasing the warmth of the water and the time exposed tot he heat/humidity every week. It worked!!!!!

One thing I did while doing this was avoid getting my head hot. I wash my hair in lukewarm water but can sit in hot water without any kind of MS effects happening.

Gwen

[Guest guest]

Dave wrote:

> At the time you experience a symptom you have already demyelinated. If

>you do this enough times, someday you could run out of precursors

>[oligodendrocyte progenitors cells] to differentiate and remyelinate. You

>can run out of sheath and the axon itself goes. The mechanism is clear.

>

> ... However, an MSer could exercise to the point before a symptom

>appears....

>

> ...If the MSer knows what is going on, s/he may be able help to mitigate

>the potential course of their disease.

Dear Dave;

The sensation of tingling and numbness are due to the uneveness of the

O.P.cells that have remyelinated. They are not as big and fluffy as the

original proteins nor as evenly spaced, and therefore the messeges running

through the nerves don't run as smoothly or as efficiently. I don't see the

connection though from exercising and CAUSING more demyelination to occur.

Tingling is not an indication that demyelnation is taking place, only that

there is uneven remyelination that has already occurred.

Plus I believe that the body has the ability to reproduce any type of cell.

I actually know people who have regrown adult teeth, and regenerated

degenerated disks. That's why this is an alternative site for M.S.

information. We seek information outside of the typical medical norm. I am

more interested in remaining very still and meditating on a concept to see

if it resonates with a higher universal vibration of truth than I am in the

results of some so-called scientific study. I am sure that sounds very

flakey to you, but that's O.K. with me! I am just focussed on curing my M.S.

permenantly. Sometimes I think the best thing for me to do is the exact

opposite of everything the established medical community tells me to do!

Best Regards;

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[Guest guest]

Hi Carol:

Thanks for the messege. By the way, I have basically gotton my diet down to

energy soup and salads. Once a week we make more complicated dinners from

raw food cook books, and I eat Essene breads and dehydrated sprouted

buckwheat ( buckwheaties!) for breakfast.

My diet is very repetative and very simple. Food has become something that I

use to heal myself and I have let go of all of the emotional reasons why I

used to eat before my illness. My only issue with my diet is the struggle to

keep my weight up. I find that nuts and dried fruit allow me to put on

weight, but I have major issues with gas when I eat these things in large

quantities! I have found that harvesting and hulling my own sunflower and

buckwheat greens have given me extreme energy and made a huge difference in

my energy soup. I add cilantro for extra flavour, and even though I eat the

damn stuff twice a day, my mouth waters everytime I whip up a bowl!

I find that eating this way I get all of the results I want without the use

of vitamins, supplements or herbs. I am curious to try bach flower remedies

cause they are part of the whole vibrational healing thing that I am

interested in exploring right now, and those tinctures I will make up

myself.

I tried two new salad recipies this week that were fantastic and wanted to

pass them along:

Hijiki-Yam Medley:

1 cup hijiki, soaked for 30 minutes

2 cups grated yam or sweet potato

4 tbsp. soaked sunflower or pumpkin seeds ( soak for 1 hour)

1 tbsp. seseme oil

2 tsp. grated ginger

2 tsp. tamari ( I use Shoyu)

Pinch of cinamon

Drain soaked ingredients. Put all ingredients in a small bowl, toss and

serve. Big hit at my house!

Ginger Beets

2 cups grated beets ( raw, of course!)

2 tsp grated ginger

1 tbsp. maple syrup ( optional)

1 tbsp. tamari ( shoyu)

1. tbsp. tahini

1 tsp. lemon juice

Combine wet ingredients first and blend. Add in dry ingredients. Toss, let

stand for ten minutes and serve.

These recipies come from a book called The Raw Gourmet by Noni from

Alive Books. Tell me if you like the recipies, I'll look for more that don't

involve major amounts of sprouting or dehydrating. Do you have a dehydrator?

Regards;

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Almonds soak especially well.

P.S. I have been having trouble with the vision in my right eye today. I feel that the peripheral vision to the right of my right eye is blurry and my eye is watering a lot. does this sound M.S. related or do you thing maybe it's more a form of a virus or something like Pink Eye?

Regards;

,

I'm going to try soaking the almonds....I have some raw ones ready to soak.

Does the seaweed taste fishy? I got some once - don't remember what kind it was, but it was called for in a macrobiotic recipe I tried a few years ago. It was so fishy tasing, I threw it away. I'm not at all fond of fish, so I don't like anything that tastes at all like fish.

I don't know what to tell you about your eye, because I have a similar problem I've wondered about for a couple of years now. Both my eyes get really watery in the later evenings, and of course that makes them blurry. Do you think it's the watering that's making it blurry? If it was both your eyes, I'd say it's probably the same thing as mine, and I've wondered for a long time if it's MS related or not. They aren't like that when I'm rested, during the day, though. (Maybe I just stay up too late. LOL.)

Carol

[Guest guest]

.. When the attack is over, the swelling aroun the nerves goes down, the remyeination start to take place, and we slowly regain most of our functioning ( for those of us not Primary Progressive).

They tell me I'm primary progressive and I think they're right since I don't have any remissions or high or lows. But, I DO get more tingling in my legs when I go out to walk. (Actually, that started when I was about 35, long before I had any other MS symptoms, and I had no idea that was an MS symptom at the time. I just thought it was a funny sensation that I only got after exercise.) Anyway, I thought that when we exercise, we are causing those 'ragged' nerve pathways to send signals more continuously, therefore causing increased tingling due to additional nerve function. In other words, more repetitions of the nerve circuitry from more movement, so more rounds of tingling.....put that all together and you get increased tingling sensations. Makes sense to me anyway.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Yes, I would say diet is the primary treatment my wife is using at the

moment. It looks like no saturated fat, and some EFA, plus a few vitamins

(D and B12 for sure), and antioxidants. My wife is adamantly vegetarian.

The constraints are a bit hard to manage because she is also suffering from

Candida, so it makes hard to figure out what to eat sometimes. We are

starting to look into sprouts. We have been reading Swank, the Best Bet

Diet, and Pitchford.

Dave,

The Best Bet Diet is what I'm on, only I've modified it to be also a candida fighting diet, so I don't eat much rice. I am on an email list for it, and we have about a dozen people who have experienced great improvement from the diet. One man is now symptom free.

I DO eat white poultry meat, though.

They say that 70+% of MS patients have candida overgrowth, and some people think it's the cause of MS. I personally feel it goes deeper than that....that there is something else wrong that causes us to be susceptible to candida overgrowth. In my case that could be mercury poisoning, given the huge amounts of amalgam fillings I used to have in my mouth.

Here's a link to the site for the Best Bet Diet support group. The email list can be joined by clicking on "Contact US" and sending an email requesting to be added. It's a great place for support, advice, sharing of information, recipes etc.

Carol

http://www.ms-diet.org/

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

>,

>No, I don't have a dehydrator, or really any of the equipment you use. I

>DO

>wish I had a Champion juicer, though.

>

>The recipes DO sound delicious, though I don't know what hijiki is. Is it

>anything like jicama? I was thinking of jicama while reading the recipe,

>and

>that sounded good. I think I will try them. I get in a rut too, and am

>always looking for new recipes I can use. I'd love to get more from you,

>because I think that is the area I'm lacking in - veggies and good recipes

>for them. I eat veggies two or three times a day, but it seems like you

>can

>never get enough to be healthy, so I understand the theories behind what

>you're doing. I live in a small house, though and have absolutely no room

>to

>do sprouting. I've been contemplating doing it this spring and summer out

>on

>my patio, however.

>

>I know how you're feeling about food - I try to keep the philosophy that I

>eat to live, not live to eat. If you don't maintain that philosophy, you

>are

>constantly feeling deprived of what you used to eat. I don't eat dried

>fruit, because of candida issues, but I have a problem when I eat too many

>nuts too. With me, they actually can give me diarrhea. I have to watch it

>with seeds too. Plus, I seem to become allergic to some nuts and seeds

>fairly easily. I have been allergic to almonds and sunflower in the past.

>I

>also have the same weight losing issues, but lately I've been eating

>guacamole to help keep weight on. It works quite well for me.

>

>I'm assuming the yams or sweet potatoes are grated raw too?

>Carol

Hi Carol;

Hijiki is actually a seaweed. I find it in the health food store in the

fresh veggie section. It's usually packaged . It looks like hard black thin

spagetinni. You need to soak it before eating. This softens and expands the

amount to about double what it is dry.

Yes, all of the ingredients in my recipies are all raw.

I alos eat about two avocados a day in one form or another. I can totally

relate to the nuts and seeds issue, but I find soaking them and eating a raw

foods diet takes care of the allergy issues. Nuts are hard to digest, which

is why they lead to digestive problems. These are resolved by soaking nuts

overnight. Almonds soak especially well.

P.S. I have been having trouble with the vision in my right eye today. I

feel that the peripheral vision to the right of my right eye is blurry and

my eye is watering a lot. does this sound M.S. related or do you thing maybe

it's more a form of a virus or something like Pink Eye?

Regards;

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Dave wrote:

>Hi

>

>I was slightly uneasy when I cut and pasted " At the time you experience a

>symptom you have already demyelinated " , because there was no reference, and

>because I don't understand how demylination could occur so quickly.

>However, I generally respect the work done by the author.

>

>Also, my experience watching my wife " pushing the envelope " has been heart

>breaking. So for us, we are in a period of learning to respect the

>limitations of her body as it is now, and learn what level of activity is

>sustainable. She often says " I don't know if I have done too much until

>several hours afterwards (too late), and then I pay for for days " . Once she

>has stabilized and recovered a bit I will encourage her to start cautiously

>experimenting, and living more fully - but sustainability is a very high

>priority for me.

>

>Having said this, if tingling is due to patchy remylenation, why does

>excercise produce more tingling?

>

>I think intuition, or as you put it " if it resonates with a higher

>universal

>vibration of truth " is valid - not flakey. I also rely on this.

>

>Cheers

>Dave

>

>Dear Dave;

I totally understand your frustration with watching your wife struggle with

her current state of health and her struggle with finding the right amount

of exercise for her. Sometimes I think it is harder for the spouse, because

you are there witnessing, observing, aiding and picking up the pieces, but

it's not something happening to your body, so you have no control. I know my

husband gets pretty upset with me when I push too hard, or cheat on my diet,

because he can't stand to see me get worse. I think it scares him more than

it scares me.

The reason why exercise would increase the amount of tingling or numbness (

from my remedial understanding of the physiology) is that you are stressing

your system, and the messeges running down the nerves are going to get a bit

more mangled than when you are in a resting state. Same goes for when we get

stressed, don't have enough sleep, or eat too little or poorly. These are

all added stressed that make it more difficult for our nervous systems to

function efficiently.

One way to think about it, it when normal people wake up in the morning,

their nervous system is fuctioning at about a 95% efficiency level. These

people feel energetic and co-ordinated. As the day wears on, the nervous

system starts to get sluggish, and only works at a 75-78% efficiency. This

is when people experience " tiredness " . Tiredness is actually the feelin of a

sluggish nervous system.

With M.S., we wake up in the morning with approx. 70% efficiency to start

with. As the day wears on, we can drop well below the 50% mark. Not only do

we feel exausted, but the daily symptoms of tingling and numbness increase,

even though we are still in so-called " remission " . An exaserbation is

defined by an increase in already existing symptoms or new symptoms that

develope over a period of weeks and get

worse. This is when we know that there has been another round of attack and

demyelination/scarring occuring. When the attack is over, the swelling aroun

the nerves goes down, the remyeination start to take place, and we slowly

regain most of our functioning ( for those of us not Primary Progressive).

But the daily niggling symptoms are always there to one extent or aonther

because of the uneveness of the myelin around our nerves after the attack.

As part of my meditations, I imagine big fluffy myelin bubbles, nicely

evenly spaced around my nerves and see the messeges running down my golden

sparkly nerves quickly and efficiently. I really believe that energy follows

intention!

If I listened to my doctors, they would want me to sit on my ass and take

drugs. I'd rather push the envelope and continue on this amazing journey of

exploration and personal deveopment. Your comments and experience are much

welcome!

P.S. Is your wife following any type of specialized diet? Many people on

this site have had tremendous results from diet, and I encourage you to

explore this avenue with your wife. Never settle for anything other than

progressive healing and perfect health!

Regards;

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[Guest guest]

Gwen wrote:

>,

>I have done just that, I can take a very warm bath now and also I am much

>better in the heat, although not the really hot humid days.

>

>I did it by increasing the warmth of the water and the time exposed tot he

>heat/humidity every week. It worked!!!!!

>

>One thing I did while doing this was avoid getting my head hot. I wash my

>hair in lukewarm water but can sit in hot water without any kind of MS

>effects happening.

>

>Gwen

Dear Gwen;

I am going to try this as well. I am going to look at it as if I am

exercising my nervous system by stressing it out just a little bit at a time

and increasing slowly, the same way I would train my muscles. Thanks for the

encouragement.

Regards;

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[Guest guest]

Ed wrote:

>Hi ,

> When I was first diagnosed the neurologist that I was going to

>at the time strongly warned me about hot showers, baths, and

>climates. He actually forbade me from going to Aruba two months

>after I was released from hospital, stating that I had to go to

>Vermont where it was cool. Can you imagine the audacity of this man

>to forbid me from going anywhere. Any way the long and short of it

>is that after I took one cool shower I realized that it was not for

>me. I have and will continue to take hot showers. I use Dead Sea

>salt baths to help in the removal of toxins from my body. These

>baths are very hot. I have never had any problems, increased

>symptoms, or other MS issues related to the hot showers or baths.

>With the exception of this year (business has been terrible and

>finances difficult) I have continued to travel to the southern

>Carribean to fish. I mean down off the south east coast of

>Venezuela, you know by the equator and I thrive there (a little

>hotter than New Jersey). I used to have a difficult time with the

>heat and humidity here in New Jersey in the summer but it seems that

>this was more due to the trapped toxins in the air from the humidity

>rather than the heat. I also have meditated on the inflamation

>system in my body to help control my inner temperature.

> As far as excercise is concerned I firmly believe that the only

>reason that I can walk today is because I refused to sit and rest.

>Even on my worst day last year when I was removing the amalgams from

>my teeth and all the released Mercury was interferring tremendously

>with my Gross Motor Function, dragging my left leg behind I still

>walked, albeit not the four to five miles I can do today, more like

>one tenth to one quater mile, I still did it no matter how much I

>hurt or cried or looked like a fool with my ataxic gate, I walked.

>I have not tried to go to a gym and work out aerobically or strength

>but I now can sustain a four mile an hour pace on my five mile walks.

> Science is a system of rules made by Man (species not gender).

>In order for it to be valid it relies on the premise that Man

>understands the complexities of the relation of all forces and

>energies of our planet and universe and perhaps beyond. Seeking

>to " prove or discover " the workings of ultimate balance within the

>universe is futile. Accepting the exsistence of this balance with

>out the need to know why is the bridge that we must cross.

>Peace,

>Ed

>

Dear Ed;

What you wrote totally resonates with me. So, when are you planning your

next trip to Aruba? I want to come! It sounds amazing. Just let me know if

ther are local places to buy organic produce. I can bring a juicer with me.

Let's go!

As, always, a pleasure to hear from you;

Regards;

>

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[Guest guest]

Dara wrote:

> Hi , your recipies sound wonderful & I look forward to trying them.

> I feel the same way about food, I have lost all of the cravings for bad

>foods - I love the way I eat & am proud of all of the work I have done. I

>find sprouting to be very rewarding. So what do you make a soup out of? I

>usually just eat sprouts as a salad & am interested in your soup. I

>continue to be a little discouraged because of this exacerbation - it is

>really lasting a long time, but I keep juicing & sprouting & realize that I

>just need to work harder. I continue to make meditation a part of my day.

Dear Dara;

I foloow a diet called " Living Foods " which was the brain child of Dr. Ann

Wigmore. She's dead now, but essentially introduced the North American

population to drinking wheatgrass in the early 1980's. Since then she has

educated people about the benifits of raw food diets, but especially eating

foods in a form that is " bio-available " . this includes blending, juicing,

sprouting, fermenting and soaking as ways to make foods easily digestable.

The soup that I make is a basic recipe of Ann's called Energy Soup. I will

outline it for you, but there are books available by Ann Wigmore that will

give you lots of explanation and recipes. The soup calls for an ingredient

called " Rejeuvilac " which is another mainstay in my diet. It is fermented

wheatberry juice, which I drink straight ( tastes like lemon-aid) and also

use in recipies. Rejeuvilac is very important cause is provides my body with

pro-biotics, helps alkyline out my intestinal tract and converts sugars into

lactic acid, so it actually kills Candida growth. So, here are both the

instructions for Rejeuvilac and Energy Soup:

Rejeuvilac:

Buy soft white wheatberries. Soak overnight in distilled water in a super

clean jar. Rinse the next morning, and tilt the jar on an angel to allow

wheatberries to sprout. Rinse once or twice a day. Should only take two days

or so before you see tails about the same size as the berry. At this stage

fill the jar up with distilled water so that one third is berries and two

thirds is water. Allow ther berries to sit in a dark place and ferment the

water for about two days. You'll know the water is ready cause it gets murky

and has little oxygen bubbles in it. Pour off the water into a clear

container that you can refrigerate, and fill up the original container with

more water to make your second batch. Sprouted wheatberries can be used

three times, and then discard the berries and start afresh. Rejeuvilac

sometimes can smell very strong, but rarely tastes as strong as it smells.

Trust me on this one! If it smells really bad... I mean REALLY bad, you've

probably got some bacteria overgrowth. Just dump it out and start again.

Really important to have very clean jar and clean water. My kids drink

Rejeuvilac. They just avoid smelling it!

Energy Soup:

Put in a blender or Quisineart:

1 apple

1 pear

1 date

quarter cup of rejeuvilac

blend for 30 seconds or so.

Then add:

3 cups of sunflower sprouts or buckwheat sprouts or both

cilantro ( optional)

anything green ( spinach, kale, chard, parsley etc. all optional)

blend for another 30 seconds or so.

Then add 1 avocado and blend till you get the consistency you want. I like

mine just a bit thinner than a quacomole dip.

When you serve it, add in a couple of shakes of Shoyu, cut up some dulse and

add pine nuts for crunch. Yummy!

Let me know how it goes.

Regards;

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[Guest guest]

, but I know my mother got a secondary infection in her eyes called shingles when I was a kid with chicken pox and I didn't know if this was maybe the beginning of shingles. Hope not! I have no time to be sick!

My blurriness does seem to be a separate issue from the wateriness though. I find my peripheral right side vision blurry regardless if there is water present or not. I guess I'll just have to track it for a few days and see what happens.

Regards;

,

Whatever it turns out to be, I hope it passes quickly!

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Dave;

I am not familiar with the Swank diet or Pitchford, but it sounds like if your wife is focussing on diet, and is aware that she has Candida issues, that she is on the right track. There have been several discussions in the past on this site of a syndrome called "Leaky Gut". It is a very interesting hypothesis of what causeds M.S. in the first place. I am convinced that in my case, it is the primary reason that I have M.S., along with the fact that I have a tremendously high mercury reading, most likely from amalgam fillings and eating fish. Carol has a connection to a site that talks about Leaky Gut, or run a web search.

and Dave,

The Swank diet was the first one I used. It's just basically low in saturated fat - no red meat or dairy, except skim milk. But, they eat gluten. However, he at least had a 35 year record of keeping his patients only deteriorating by 2%.

I seem to be in the same boat as you, , in that I believe Leaky Gut has been my main problem, but it may have been caused by mercury poisoning.

Here is the best article I've seen to date on Leaky Gut. It's so easy for the lay person to understand and yet so complete in information. They sell a few products, but I really don't think it's the main reason for the site. They have articles on many different things, which I will get back to reading eventually. I'm sending links to both the main page with all the articles and the article on Leaky Gut.

Carol

t h e d o c t o r w i t h i n -- CHAPTERS t h e d o c t o r w i t h i n -- Journey to the Center of Your Colon

[Guest guest]

So, could you tell me how you got measured for murcury poisoning?

I haven't been measured for mercury poisoning. I just can't imagine how I could not have that problem, since I had at least one mercury filling in every tooth in my mouth, except the very front teeth. (Many teeth had multiple fillings or inlays.) AND, I've always ground my teeth at night, thereby exposing myself to the max in mercury. I wear night guards now, because of that problem, in order to try and save the rest of my front bottom teeth. But, I do have a hair analysis kit here right now, and it would be free, if I do it, as part of a study. BUT, you have to cut hair out at the scalp in 7 different places on the back of your head. I really don't want to do that.......I guess maybe you could say it's vain, but I have thin, fine hair as it is and can't really afford to give up any of it. I can't really see the point in doing it, because I'm 99.9% sure mercury is a problem for me and doing the test won't change what I do about it.

Carol

[Guest guest]

He has a

small section on MS - foods to strenghen and tone the organs (from the Far

Easter 5 element theory system)

But, he doesn't indicate any foods that need to be avoided? (I haven't heard about him either. Does he have a web site?)

Carol

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have had a look at the best bet diet, and trip over the emphasis on meat, since my wife is a commited vegetarian.

Is this more of a philosophical issue with her than it is a technical issue? Usually, I've found, that's the way it is, when someone is a really committed vegetarian. Please don't think I'm casting any aspersions toward that way of thinking, because I wouldn't want to get into any debates over that issue, and I respect it. I'm just wondering, because I have done oodles of research on the 'scientific' reasonings behind meat eaters and vegetarians/vegans. I seriously considered becoming a vegan, because of things I read that were convincing to me that it was the best way for someone with MS, for purely health reasons. However, I tried it and seemed to get into that non-thriving mode that some people experience as vegans. I just seemed to get weaker and sicker. I personally think that it works for some people and not for others......possibly even because of the blood type theories....not sure. Don't know if you've heard of the Blood Type Diet, but your blood type determines what you should and shouldn't eat. I am a "B" negative blood type and, according to that theory, I am a meat eater. "A" blood types are not meat eaters. If this theory is correct, conceivably, an A blood type would do well on a vegan diet, but a B blood type would not do well on it at all. (I have only used those two blood types to demonstrate my point....I'm aware there are two other blood types, with other requirements.)

Carol

[Guest guest]

.. A proper diet should take care of this, but one reference I saw (I don't have the details), indicated that *depending on your GI flora* most of these antioxidants are metabolized in the gut and never get into the blood. I would like to know if this is Candida at work.

I think you are going to find, in your research, that many problems eventually lead you back to being rooted in intestinal problems, if not all of them. I've been researching all this stuff since about 1994, and it just seems that everything I unravel comes down to the intestines. (I've read about everything you've mentioned, except about Pitchford.......at least in the natural healing categories.) Carol

[Guest guest]

I meant to include the URL for the Blood Brain Barrier article

http://rook.innercite.com/~tstout/articles/multiple-sclerosis.shtml

Cheers!

That's a good article. I read it a few years ago. I think most of these are on Ashton Embry's site, or at least linked from it. After he read all this stuff, he came up with the Best Bet Diet. (I did too....well, my own version of it, and then I ran into his site and really perfected it, by eliminating legumes, mainly.) If you put all these articles together, it gets kind of clear how a person could end up with MS. Then after that, you get to the intestinal mess.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

>,

>I'm going to try soaking the almonds....I have some raw ones ready to soak.

>Does the seaweed taste fishy? I got some once - don't remember what kind

>it

>was, but it was called for in a macrobiotic recipe I tried a few years ago.

>It was so fishy tasing, I threw it away. I'm not at all fond of fish, so I

>don't like anything that tastes at all like fish.

>

>I don't know what to tell you about your eye, because I have a similar

>problem I've wondered about for a couple of years now. Both my eyes get

>really watery in the later evenings, and of course that makes them blurry.

>Do you think it's the watering that's making it blurry? If it was both

>your

>eyes, I'd say it's probably the same thing as mine, and I've wondered for a

>long time if it's MS related or not. They aren't like that when I'm

>rested,

>during the day, though. (Maybe I just stay up too late. LOL.)

>Carol

Carol:

Hijike is a very mild tasting seaweed. Especially mixed with ginger and

seseme oil, I think you will find the taste not at all fishy. If you do try

it, let me know.

I just started noticing my eye blurriness today, so it's probably too early

to tell what it is. I noticed it at work this morning, so I don't think it

is related to fatigue. I don't work on computers at work, but I was working

off a computer printout of 200 phone numbers pretty intensely for a couple

of hours. That alone could have stressed my vision, but I'm pretty sure I

noticed it upon waking this morning.

The other idea is that my seven year old just got over the chicken pox. I've

already had them, so I'm not worried about that, but I know my mother got a

secondary infection in her eyes called shingles when I was a kid with

chicken pox and I didn't know if this was maybe the beginning of shingles.

Hope not! I have no time to be sick!

My blurriness does seem to be a separate issue from the wateriness though. I

find my peripheral right side vision blurry regardless if there is water

present or not. I guess I'll just have to track it for a few days and see

what happens.

Regards;

_________________________________________________________________

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