RE: Mold only dangerous when digested.

[Guest guest]

the word " dangerous " in this subject line is problematic.

is tobacco use " dangerous " ?

is an asthma attack spawned by fungal exposure " dangerous " ?

is a runny nose, sneezing, coughing or sinus congestion " dangerous " ?

and, of course, it's always important to consider the source: get

to know both Kelman and Bardana -- who they are, what they do for a

living, who their clients are.

here are a couple of simple questions to ask: do these individuals

provide litigation support as experts? what percentage of their

cases are for the plaintiff? for the defendant?

then you can make an informed decision on these articles.

Wane

> Hi All,

>

> Read these two articles. The new theme is mold can only hurt you

if you eat

> it. So do you all wear HasMat suits during remediation to

curtail your

> desire to eat mold while you are working with it?

>

> Sharon

>

> Sick Of Mold? Maybe Not.

> Sept. 30, 2005

> (WebMD) Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in

> recent years by people who say exposure to mold in

> their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medical

> review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little

> evidence to support the claims.

>

> Researchers reported that in every case, other medical

> causes could be identified to explain the illnesses

> believed to be caused by the condition that has come

> to be known as " toxic mold syndrome. "

>

> They concluded that no credible medical evidence has

> emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of

> serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold

> syndrome.

>

> " We know that mold can make people sick if they end up

> in the foods they eat, " Oregon Health & Science

> University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr.,

> MD, tells WebMD. " But there is little evidence that

> inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the

> serious illnesses that have been attributed to it. "

>

> Hurricane Houses

>

> As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes

> Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold

> exposure have taken on a new urgency.

>

> Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures

> submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are

> now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board,

> ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.

>

> Because of the severity of water damage, many of these

> structures will pose obvious dangers to health,

> Bardana says.

>

> " There is no comparison between a home that has

> literally been underwater for extended periods and the

> cases that we reviewed, " he says. " Mold is definitely

> going to be a huge issue with these houses. "

>

> 10,000 Lawsuits

>

> Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago

> following news reports of a cluster of illnesses among

> babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were

> initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black

> fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp,

> indoor surfaces.

>

> A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million to

> a family who's newly constructed mansion was

> contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance

> Information Institute estimated that 10,000

> mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the

> number was growing.

>

> In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague

> Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of people

> who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or

> workers' compensation claims. The researchers also

> identified unrecognized conditions that could explain

> the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome.

>

> The most common complaints were upper and lower airway

> problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of

> breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and

> neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches,

> memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.

>

> Through allergy type tests the researchers found that

> 14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergic

> to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint

> of cough were either smokers or former smokers.

>

> " These people were more concerned about the

> possibility of adverse health effects from mold

> exposure than the known adverse health effects from

> the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a

> cigarette is smoked, " Bardana and Khalili wrote.

>

> They further noted that the environmental testing on

> the sites considered by the patients to be the source

> of their problems was often incomplete and did not

> include other potential irritants that could have

> caused allergies and other illnesses.

>

> More Toxic Mold Study Needed

>

> There is little argument that exposure to indoor molds

> can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who

> are susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee

> that examined the issue concluded last year that there

> is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of

> symptoms.

>

> The examination was conducted by The Institute of

> Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisory

> group, under the sponsorship of the CDC.

>

> " The committee found very few studies that have

> examined whether mold or other factors associated with

> indoor dampness are linked to fatigue,

> neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems

> that some people have attributed to fungal

> infestations of buildings, " the report stated.

>

> " The little evidence that is available does not

> support an association, but because of the dearth of

> well-constructed studies and reliable data, the

> committee could not rule out the possibility. "

>

> University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin,

> PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify

> the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American

> Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's

> Aerobiology Committee.

>

> She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the

> research.

>

> " They are not based on solid science, " she says.

> " There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related)

> toxins can cause these health conditions through

> inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can

> certainly have a negative effect on health, but we

> can't attribute this to toxins. "

>

> SOURCES: Khalili, B. ls of Allergy, Asthma, &

> Immunology, September 2005; vol 95: pp 239-246. Emil

> J. Bardana, Jr., MD, Oregon Health & Science

> University, Portland. Abba I. Terr, MD, University of

> California, San Francisco. Estelle Levetin, PhD,

> professor of biology, University of Tulsa; vice

> chairwoman, American College of Asthma, Allergy, &

> Immunology committee on aerobiology. Indoor Mold

> Report, Institute of Medicine, May 25, 2004.

>

>

> By Salynn Boyles

> Reviewed by Brunilda Nazario, MD

> © 2005, WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.

> Feedback Terms of Service Privacy Statement

>

> September 22, 2005 latimes.com

>

> GULF COAST BESIEGED

> Mold Likely to Complicate Rebuilding After Katrina

> By Rosie Mestel, Times Staff Writer

>

>

> http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-

> mold22sep22,1,3901394.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

>

> The Gulf Coast is facing a potential financial and legal morass

over

> mold blooming inside storm-damaged buildings, according to

> scientists, contractors and insurance experts.

>

> Mold has grown thickly on wet walls, rugs and furniture of

thousands

> of buildings †" and the problem will worsen as flood waters

recede.

>

>

> Restoration workers are pouring into the Gulf Coast.

>

> " There's an Oklahoma land stampede down there, " said Shane,

a

> manager for Environmental Microbiology Laboratory Inc. in Chicago.

>

> Some molds cause structural problems such as dry rot, requiring

the

> replacement of wood. The biggest problem, however, involves the

> widespread, but unsubstantiated, contentions that some molds can

> cause serious health problems.

>

> " There's a real industry being created around the mold problem

†"

> lawyers who've written about it call it 'black gold.' They see it

as

> the next great asbestos, " said Dr. Dorsett , clinical

professor

> of medicine at the University of Washington in Seattle. " It is

the

> fear factor. You mention the word 'mold' and people are afraid. "

>

> Mold is a general term for a group of thousands of different

fungi,

> including Penicillium, original source of the antibiotic

penicillin,

> and Stachybotrys chartarum, a black fungus with a fearsome

> reputation for its supposed effects on people's health.

>

> Mold spores are always in the air, but they only germinate when

> there is enough warmth and moisture, such as from burst water

pipes,

> condensation, storm damage or flooding.

>

> Feeding on the cellulose in wall board, ceiling tiles and wood,

they

> grow into long microscopic strands, spawning millions of new

spores

> that people can inhale.

>

> Publicity about Stachybotrys has created an industry for

> removing " toxic black mold. "

>

> In extreme cases, the presence of the mold has caused people to

> abandon their homes and remove the earth beneath them because of

> their fear of sickness.

>

> The presence of Stachybotrys has resulted in multimillion-dollar

> judgments against insurers and contractors.

>

> Scientists say that molds can cause some health problems. In

2004, a

> report from the National Academy of Sciences concluded that

indoor

> mold can exacerbate symptoms such as upper respiratory

irritation,

> coughing and wheezing in people with asthma.

>

> In rare cases, it can cause a flu-like immune disorder known as

> hypersensitivity pneumonitis.

>

> Damp environments often found with mold may also cause shortness

of

> breath, lower respiratory illness in healthy children and the

> development of asthma in people who are prone to it.

>

> The report, however, found no connection between molds and a

range

> of serious conditions, including chronic fatigue, cancer,

bleeding

> of the lungs, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, memory loss and

learning

> disabilities.

>

> Stachybotrys and some other molds do produce toxins, called

> mycotoxins, that are dangerous to animals and people if eaten.

>

> But " you can't get enough mycotoxin inside if you're breathing

the

> spores, " said Bruce Kelman, a board certified toxicologist with

> Veritox Inc., a toxicology consulting company.

>

> The problem facing homeowners, insurers and contractors is that

> there are virtually no health standards on mold decontamination

and

> very little data on what is necessary to get spore numbers down

to

> safe levels.

>

> Because getting rid of mold is expensive, many houses that are

still

> structurally sound may be razed, experts predicted. The problem

will

> be exacerbated by the fact that flood and mold damage is

generally

> not covered by standard home insurance.

[Guest guest]

the word "dangerous" in this subject line is problematic. is tobacco use "dangerous"? is an asthma attack spawned by fungal exposure "dangerous"? is a runny nose, sneezing, coughing or sinus congestion "dangerous"?and, of course, it's always important to consider the source: get to know both Kelman and Bardana -- who they are, what they do for a living, who their clients are. here are a couple of simple questions to ask: do these individuals provide litigation support as experts? what percentage of their cases are for the plaintiff? for the defendant? then you can make an informed decision on these articles.Wane

Here are the exact quotes regarding illness caused by inhaling mold spores (toxins). Note: #2 and #3 do not specifically say "mold spores" they address inhaling the toxins that are produced by mold spores. If one is the average citizen reading the LA Times or watching Fox News, do you think that the average citizen would know the difference between inhaling mold or inhaling the toxin produced by mold? I find the wording of these statements without clarification as to the difference of what is known as acceptable scientific evidence about inhaling mold spores as opposed to inhaling mold toxins to be very irresponsible for the safety of the public. I can just envision some poor family in Mississippi having their children helping them clean up the mold and not even wearing a mask to do so, because they heard it on Fox News that mold is only dangerous if it is eaten. Regardless of what kind of antics one wants to do in a courtroom involving mold litigation, and regardless of what one wants to promote to public to assist with winning in the courtroom, these public statements made by those who are knowledgeable enough to understand that the average person does not know the difference between a mold spore and a mold toxin are, in my opinion, totally irresponsible. Emil Bardana is the current President of the American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. Does he, the President of ACAAI, not think asthma and allergies from breathin in mold are serious illnesses? He also does a considerable amount of expert witness testimony. Guess if he testifies for plaintiffs or defendants.

#1 "We know that mold can make people sick if they end upin the foods they eat," Oregon Health & ScienceUniversity professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr.,MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence thatinhaled environmental mold exposure can cause theserious illnesses that have been attributed to it." #2 University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin,PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarifythe issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the AmericanAcademy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology'sAerobiology Committee. She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of theresearch. "They are not based on solid science," she says."There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related)toxins can cause these health conditions throughinhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house cancertainly have a negative effect on health, but wecan't attribute this to toxins."

#3 Stachybotrys and some other molds do produce toxins, called mycotoxins, that are dangerous to animals and people if eaten.But "you can't get enough mycotoxin inside if you're breathing the spores," said Bruce Kelman, a board certified toxicologist with Veritox Inc., a toxicology consulting company.

Sharon Kramer

[Guest guest]

Not real sure where this subject/question is headed

but:

mold, whether found only ingestively dangerous or not,

is not relative to wearing protective clothing (hazmat

suits). There is more than just mold found in flooded

homes. Plus, not wearing protective clothing would

make one vulnerable to contact to mold ( and possible

ingestion if not properly cleaning oneself - children

mostly here ) and chemicals used during remediation

which prove far more 'immediately dangerous' than the

mold they treat.

--- snk1955@... wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> Read these two articles. The new theme is mold can

> only hurt you if you eat

> it. So do you all wear HasMat suits during

> remediation to curtail your

> desire to eat mold while you are working with it?

>

> Sharon

>

> Sick Of Mold? Maybe Not.

> Sept. 30, 2005

> (WebMD) Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in

> recent years by people who say exposure to mold in

> their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a

> medical

> review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows

> little

> evidence to support the claims.

>

> Researchers reported that in every case, other

> medical

> causes could be identified to explain the illnesses

> believed to be caused by the condition that has

> come

> to be known as " toxic mold syndrome. "

>

> They concluded that no credible medical evidence

> has

> emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of

> serious medical conditions associated with toxic

> mold

> syndrome.

>

> " We know that mold can make people sick if they end

> up

> in the foods they eat, " Oregon Health & Science

> University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana

> Jr.,

> MD, tells WebMD. " But there is little evidence that

> inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the

> serious illnesses that have been attributed to it. "

>

>

> Hurricane Houses

>

> As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes

> Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold

> exposure have taken on a new urgency.

>

> Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures

> submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are

> now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board,

> ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.

>

> Because of the severity of water damage, many of

> these

> structures will pose obvious dangers to health,

> Bardana says.

>

> " There is no comparison between a home that has

> literally been underwater for extended periods and

> the

> cases that we reviewed, " he says. " Mold is

> definitely

> going to be a huge issue with these houses. "

>

> 10,000 Lawsuits

>

> Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago

> following news reports of a cluster of illnesses

> among

> babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were

> initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black

> fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp,

> indoor surfaces.

>

> A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million

> to

> a family who's newly constructed mansion was

> contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance

> Information Institute estimated that 10,000

> mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and

> the

> number was growing.

>

> In their newly published study, Bardana and

> colleague

> Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of

> people

> who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or

> workers' compensation claims. The researchers also

> identified unrecognized conditions that could

> explain

> the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold

> syndrome.

>

> The most common complaints were upper and lower

> airway

> problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of

> breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and

> neurological problems, including dizziness,

> headaches,

> memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.

>

> Through allergy type tests the researchers found

> that

> 14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were

> allergic

> to their own pets. And 61% of those with a

> complaint

> of cough were either smokers or former smokers.

>

> " These people were more concerned about the

> possibility of adverse health effects from mold

> exposure than the known adverse health effects from

> the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a

> cigarette is smoked, " Bardana and Khalili wrote.

>

> They further noted that the environmental testing

> on

> the sites considered by the patients to be the

> source

> of their problems was often incomplete and did not

> include other potential irritants that could have

> caused allergies and other illnesses.

>

> More Toxic Mold Study Needed

>

> There is little argument that exposure to indoor

> molds

> can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people

> who

> are susceptible. But a government-sponsored

> committee

> that examined the issue concluded last year that

> there

> is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes

> of

> symptoms.

>

> The examination was conducted by The Institute of

> Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy

> advisory

> group, under the sponsorship of the CDC.

>

> " The committee found very few studies that have

> examined whether mold or other factors associated

> with

> indoor dampness are linked to fatigue,

> neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems

> that some people have attributed to fungal

> infestations of buildings, " the report stated.

>

> " The little evidence that is available does not

> support an association, but because of the dearth

> of

> well-constructed studies and reliable data, the

> committee could not rule out the possibility. "

>

> University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle

> Levetin,

> PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify

> the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the

> American

> Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's

> Aerobiology Committee.

>

> She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the

> research.

>

> " They are not based on solid science, " she says.

> " There is no hard evidence that proves

> (mold-related)

> toxins can cause these health conditions through

> inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can

> certainly have a negative effect on health, but we

> can't attribute this to toxins. "

>

> SOURCES: Khalili, B. ls of Allergy, Asthma, &

> Immunology, September 2005; vol 95: pp 239-246. Emil

> J. Bardana, Jr., MD, Oregon Health & Science

> University, Portland. Abba I. Terr, MD, University

> of

> California, San Francisco. Estelle Levetin, PhD,

> professor of biology, University of Tulsa; vice

> chairwoman, American College of Asthma, Allergy, &

> Immunology committee on aerobiology. Indoor Mold

> Report, Institute of Medicine, May 25, 2004.

>

>

> By Salynn Boyles

> Reviewed by Brunilda Nazario, MD

> © 2005, WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.

> Feedback Terms of Service Privacy Statement

>

> September 22, 2005 latimes.com

>

> GULF COAST BESIEGED

> Mold Likely to Complicate Rebuilding After Katrina

> By Rosie Mestel, Times Staff Writer

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

So you agree with the statements that there is no evidence of illness from inhaling mold spores?

Sorry, I did not see any such statements in the below articles. I have cut and pasted the 10 sentences below that may have been mistakened for saying what you said above. I agree with all of the below 10 statements, but so as to give you a direct answer; no, I don't agree with your statement above.

If so, what do you feel is the purpose of HasMat suits?

That's a pretty general question....sometimes they protect people from immediate death and sometimes they can be fashion statements made for the TV cameras. In environments where real risks exist, there are four Levels of "suits" to facilitate safe entry into a controlled environment. Use of respiratory protection, in the form of an N-95 or HEPA or other high-efficiency particulate NIOSH approved devices are quite appropriate for mold exposures depending on the potential or actual exposure. Most people in the world have their highest daily exposure to mold spores when they walk outside. I don't see many people walking around in HazMat suits so such must not be deemed appropriate by the general population for the 50,000+ spores per cubic meter frequently measured in the outdoor air. See the EPA and OSHA websites (29 CFR 1910.120) for more information regarding the environments in which the use of various levels of HazMat suits are appropriate.

And how would you define Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis?

Here is what the Merck Manual says about HP: A diffuse interstitial granulomatous lung disease caused by an allergic response to inhaled organic dusts or, less commonly, to simple chemicals. Hypersensitivity pneumonitis (extrinsic allergic alveolitis) includes numerous examples that are caused by specific antigens. Farmer's lung, associated with repeated inhalation of dusts from hay containing thermophilic actinomycetes, is the prototype.

(PS: Farmers lung is the well established prototype that others may have thought about in my last post, when I noted what the mold consultant ex-pig farmer from Arizona didn't have a clue about when he said that he had no prior experience with mold.)

B. Dotson, CIH, CSP San , CAemail: kyle@...

The articles said the following:

1. They concluded that no credible medical evidence hasemerged to link mold exposure to the wide range ofserious medical conditions associated with toxic moldsyndrome.

2. "But there is little evidence thatinhaled environmental mold exposure can cause theserious illnesses that have been attributed to it."

3. "The committee found very few studies that haveexamined whether mold or other factors associated withindoor dampness are linked to fatigue,neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problemsthat some people have attributed to fungalinfestations of buildings," the report stated. 4. "The little evidence that is available does notsupport an association, but because of the dearth ofwell-constructed studies and reliable data, thecommittee could not rule out the possibility."

5. "They are not based on solid science," she says."There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related)toxins can cause these health conditions throughinhalation.

6. Living in a damp, moldy house cancertainly have a negative effect on health, but wecan't attribute this to toxins."

7. Scientists say that molds can cause some health problems. In 2004, a report from the National Academy of Sciences concluded that indoor mold can exacerbate symptoms such as upper respiratory irritation, coughing and wheezing in people with asthma.In rare cases, it can cause a flu-like immune disorder known as hypersensitivity pneumonitis.8. Damp environments often found with mold may also cause shortness of breath, lower respiratory illness in healthy children and the development of asthma in people who are prone to it. 9. The report, however, found no connection between molds and a range of serious conditions, including chronic fatigue, cancer, bleeding of the lungs, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, memory loss and learning disabilities.10. Stachybotrys and some other molds do produce toxins, called mycotoxins, that are dangerous to animals and people if eaten.

-----Original Message-----From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of snk1955@...Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 10:20 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Mold only dangerous when digested.

Both articles look to be rather factual. Both acknowledge the well established asthma and allergy issues. Both acknowledge the less common but more severe HP and ingestion risks, and that the research is thin in areas of the new alledged symptoms. And that the credible research that has occured has basically indicated that there is no such thing as "toxic mold syndrome." At least in medical science. Of course, that doesn't stop the term from being used by reporters and therefore laypersons. And of course lawyers in their alternative pleadings.

B. Dotson, CIH, CSP San , CAemail: kyle@...

Hi Mr. (or it Ms?) Dotson,

So you agree with the statements that there is no evidence of illness from inhaling mold spores? If so, what do you feel is the purpose of HasMat suits? And how would you define Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis?

Sharon

Sick Of Mold? Maybe Not. Sept. 30, 2005(WebMD) Thousands of lawsuits have been filed inrecent years by people who say exposure to mold intheir homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medicalreview of 50 cases that ended up in court shows littleevidence to support the claims. Researchers reported that in every case, other medicalcauses could be identified to explain the illnessesbelieved to be caused by the condition that has cometo be known as "toxic mold syndrome." They concluded that no credible medical evidence hasemerged to link mold exposure to the wide range ofserious medical conditions associated with toxic moldsyndrome. "We know that mold can make people sick if they end upin the foods they eat," Oregon Health & ScienceUniversity professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr.,MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence thatinhaled environmental mold exposure can cause theserious illnesses that have been attributed to it." Hurricane Houses As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from HurricanesKatrina and Rita, health concerns regarding moldexposure have taken on a new urgency. Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structuressubmerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks arenow covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board,ceiling tiles, and other surfaces. Because of the severity of water damage, many of thesestructures will pose obvious dangers to health,Bardana says. "There is no comparison between a home that hasliterally been underwater for extended periods and thecases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitelygoing to be a huge issue with these houses." 10,000 Lawsuits Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade agofollowing news reports of a cluster of illnesses amongbabies living in Cleveland. The illnesses wereinitially blamed on inhalation exposure to a blackfungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp,indoor surfaces. A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million toa family who's newly constructed mansion wascontaminated with the mold. In 2003, the InsuranceInformation Institute estimated that 10,000mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and thenumber was growing. In their newly published study, Bardana and colleagueBarzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of peoplewho filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits orworkers' compensation claims. The researchers alsoidentified unrecognized conditions that could explainthe symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome. The most common complaints were upper and lower airwayproblems such as nasal congestion or shortness ofbreath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, andneurological problems, including dizziness, headaches,memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia. Through allergy type tests the researchers found that14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergicto their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaintof cough were either smokers or former smokers. "These people were more concerned about thepossibility of adverse health effects from moldexposure than the known adverse health effects fromthe thousands of chemicals inhaled every time acigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote. They further noted that the environmental testing onthe sites considered by the patients to be the sourceof their problems was often incomplete and did notinclude other potential irritants that could havecaused allergies and other illnesses. More Toxic Mold Study Needed There is little argument that exposure to indoor moldscan worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people whoare susceptible. But a government-sponsored committeethat examined the issue concluded last year that thereis no clear proof that mold causes these complexes ofsymptoms. The examination was conducted by The Institute ofMedicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisorygroup, under the sponsorship of the CDC. "The committee found very few studies that haveexamined whether mold or other factors associated withindoor dampness are linked to fatigue,neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problemsthat some people have attributed to fungalinfestations of buildings," the report stated. "The little evidence that is available does notsupport an association, but because of the dearth ofwell-constructed studies and reliable data, thecommittee could not rule out the possibility." University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin,PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarifythe issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the AmericanAcademy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology'sAerobiology Committee. She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of theresearch. "They are not based on solid science," she says."There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related)toxins can cause these health conditions throughinhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house cancertainly have a negative effect on health, but wecan't attribute this to toxins." SOURCES: Khalili, B. ls of Allergy, Asthma, & Immunology, September 2005; vol 95: pp 239-246. EmilJ. Bardana, Jr., MD, Oregon Health & ScienceUniversity, Portland. Abba I. Terr, MD, University ofCalifornia, San Francisco. Estelle Levetin, PhD,professor of biology, University of Tulsa; vicechairwoman, American College of Asthma, Allergy, & Immunology committee on aerobiology. Indoor MoldReport, Institute of Medicine, May 25, 2004.By Salynn BoylesReviewed by Brunilda Nazario, MD© 2005, WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.Feedback Terms of Service Privacy StatementSeptember 22, 2005 latimes.com GULF COAST BESIEGEDMold Likely to Complicate Rebuilding After KatrinaBy Rosie Mestel, Times Staff Writerhttp://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-mold22sep22,1,3901394.story?coll=la-headlines-nationThe Gulf Coast is facing a potential financial and legal morass over mold blooming inside storm-damaged buildings, according to scientists, contractors and insurance experts.Mold has grown thickly on wet walls, rugs and furniture of thousands of buildings — and the problem will worsen as flood waters recede. Restoration workers are pouring into the Gulf Coast."There's an Oklahoma land stampede down there," said Shane, a manager for Environmental Microbiology Laboratory Inc. in Chicago.Some molds cause structural problems such as dry rot, requiring the replacement of wood. The biggest problem, however, involves the widespread, but unsubstantiated, contentions that some molds can cause serious health problems."There's a real industry being created around the mold problem — lawyers who've written about it call it 'black gold.' They see it as the next great asbestos," said Dr. Dorsett , clinical professor of medicine at the University of Washington in Seattle. "It is the fear factor. You mention the word 'mold' and people are afraid."Mold is a general term for a group of thousands of different fungi, including Penicillium, original source of the antibiotic penicillin, and Stachybotrys chartarum, a black fungus with a fearsome reputation for its supposed effects on people's health. Mold spores are always in the air, but they only germinate when there is enough warmth and moisture, such as from burst water pipes, condensation, storm damage or flooding. Feeding on the cellulose in wall board, ceiling tiles and wood, they grow into long microscopic strands, spawning millions of new spores that people can inhale.Publicity about Stachybotrys has created an industry for removing "toxic black mold."In extreme cases, the presence of the mold has caused people to abandon their homes and remove the earth beneath them because of their fear of sickness. The presence of Stachybotrys has resulted in multimillion-dollar judgments against insurers and contractors.Scientists say that molds can cause some health problems. In 2004, a report from the National Academy of Sciences concluded that indoor mold can exacerbate symptoms such as upper respiratory irritation, coughing and wheezing in people with asthma.In rare cases, it can cause a flu-like immune disorder known as hypersensitivity pneumonitis.Damp environments often found with mold may also cause shortness of breath, lower respiratory illness in healthy children and the development of asthma in people who are prone to it. The report, however, found no connection between molds and a range of serious conditions, including chronic fatigue, cancer, bleeding of the lungs, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, memory loss and learning disabilities.Stachybotrys and some other molds do produce toxins, called mycotoxins, that are dangerous to animals and people if eaten.But "you can't get enough mycotoxin inside if you're breathing the spores," said Bruce Kelman, a board certified toxicologist with Veritox Inc., a toxicology consulting company. The problem facing homeowners, insurers and contractors is that there are virtually no health standards on mold decontamination and very little data on what is necessary to get spore numbers down to safe levels.Because getting rid of mold is expensive, many houses that are still structurally sound may be razed, experts predicted. The problem will be exacerbated by the fact that flood and mold damage is generally not covered by standard home insurance.

[Guest guest]

Isn’t statement no. 10 contradicting?

If you inhale Mold, Isn’t it as good as eating mold. It just via different

passage into your body….

I strong believe and have experience that

long term exposure to mold will lead to MCS, “Multiple chemical sensitivity”.

This will create havoc, even low amount of microbial activity will

trigger some kind of allegic reactions.

(-

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Dotson

Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005

3:36 AM

To: iequality

Subject: RE: Mold only

dangerous when digested.

So you agree with

the statements that there is no evidence of illness from inhaling mold spores?

Sorry, I did not see any such statements

in the below articles. I have cut and pasted the 10 sentences below that may

have been mistakened for saying what you said above. I agree with all of the

below 10 statements, but so as to give you a direct answer; no, I don't agree

with your statement above.

If so, what do you feel

is the purpose of HasMat suits?

That's a pretty general

question....sometimes they protect people from immediate death and

sometimes they can be fashion statements made for the TV cameras. In

environments where real risks exist, there are four Levels

of " suits " to facilitate safe entry into a controlled environment.

Use of respiratory protection, in the form of an N-95 or HEPA or other

high-efficiency particulate NIOSH approved devices are quite appropriate for

mold exposures depending on the potential or actual exposure. Most people in

the world have their highest daily exposure to mold spores when they walk

outside. I don't see many people walking around in HazMat suits so such must

not be deemed appropriate by the general population for the 50,000+ spores per

cubic meter frequently measured in the outdoor air. See the EPA and OSHA

websites (29 CFR 1910.120) for more information regarding the environments in

which the use of various levels of HazMat suits are appropriate.

And how would you define

Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis?

Here is what the Merck Manual says about

HP: A diffuse

interstitial granulomatous lung disease caused by an allergic response to

inhaled organic dusts or, less commonly, to simple chemicals.

Hypersensitivity pneumonitis (extrinsic allergic alveolitis) includes numerous

examples that are caused by specific antigens. Farmer's lung, associated with

repeated inhalation of dusts from hay containing thermophilic actinomycetes, is

the prototype.

(PS: Farmers lung is the well established prototype that others

may have thought about in my last post, when I noted what the mold

consultant ex-pig farmer from Arizona didn't have a clue about when he said

that he had no prior experience with mold.)

B. Dotson, CIH, CSP

San , CA

email: kyle@...

The articles said the

following:

1. They concluded that no credible

medical evidence has

emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of

serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold

syndrome.

2. " But there is

little evidence that

inhaled

environmental mold exposure can cause the

serious illnesses

that have been attributed to it. "

3. " The committee found very few

studies that have

examined whether mold or other factors associated with

indoor dampness are linked to fatigue,

neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems

that some people have attributed to fungal

infestations of buildings, " the report stated.

4. " The little evidence that is available does not

support an association, but because of the dearth of

well-constructed studies and reliable data, the

committee could not rule out the possibility. "

5. " They are not

based on solid science, " she says.

" There is no

hard evidence that proves (mold-related)

toxins can cause

these health conditions through

inhalation.

6. Living in a damp, moldy house can

certainly have a negative effect on health, but we

can't attribute this to toxins. "

7.

Scientists say that molds can cause some health problems. In 2004, a

report from the National Academy of Sciences concluded that indoor

mold can exacerbate symptoms such as upper respiratory irritation,

coughing and wheezing in people with asthma.

In rare cases, it can cause a flu-like immune disorder known as

hypersensitivity pneumonitis.

8. Damp environments often found with mold may also cause shortness of

breath, lower respiratory illness in healthy children and the

development of asthma in people who are prone to it.

9. The report, however, found no connection between molds and a range

of serious conditions, including chronic fatigue, cancer, bleeding

of the lungs, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, memory loss and learning

disabilities.

10. Stachybotrys

and some other molds do produce toxins, called

mycotoxins, that

are dangerous to animals and people if eaten.

-----Original

Message-----

From: iequality

[mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of snk1955@...

Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005

10:20 AM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Mold only

dangerous when digested.

In a message dated

10/1/2005 10:09:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, kyle@... writes:

Both articles look to be rather

factual. Both acknowledge the well established asthma and allergy issues. Both

acknowledge the less common but more severe HP and ingestion risks, and that

the research is thin in areas of the new alledged symptoms. And that the

credible research that has occured has basically indicated that there is

no such thing as " toxic mold syndrome. " At least in medical science.

Of course, that doesn't stop the term from being used by reporters and

therefore laypersons. And of course lawyers in their alternative

pleadings.

B. Dotson, CIH, CSP

San , CA

email: kyle@...

Hi Mr. (or it Ms?) Dotson,

So you agree with the statements that

there is no evidence of illness from inhaling mold spores? If so, what do

you feel is the purpose of HasMat suits? And how would you define

Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis?

Sharon

Sick Of

Mold? Maybe Not.

Sept. 30, 2005

(WebMD) Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in

recent years by people who say exposure to mold in

their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medical

review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little

evidence to support the claims.

Researchers reported that in every case, other medical

causes could be identified to explain the illnesses

believed to be caused by the condition that has come

to be known as " toxic mold syndrome. "

They concluded that no credible medical evidence has

emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of

serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold

syndrome.

" We know that

mold can make people sick if they end up

in the foods they

eat, " Oregon

Health & Science

University

professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr.,

MD, tells WebMD.

" But there is little evidence that

inhaled

environmental mold exposure can cause the

serious illnesses

that have been attributed to it. "

Hurricane Houses

As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes

Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold

exposure have taken on a new urgency.

Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures

submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are

now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board,

ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.

Because of the severity of water damage, many of these

structures will pose obvious dangers to health,

Bardana says.

" There is no comparison between a home that has

literally been underwater for extended periods and the

cases that we reviewed, " he says. " Mold is definitely

going to be a huge issue with these houses. "

10,000 Lawsuits

Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago

following news reports of a cluster of illnesses among

babies living in Cleveland.

The illnesses were

initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black

fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp,

indoor surfaces.

A few years later, a Texas

jury awarded $32 million to

a family who's newly constructed mansion was

contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance

Information Institute estimated that 10,000

mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the

number was growing.

In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague

Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of people

who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or

workers' compensation claims. The researchers also

identified unrecognized conditions that could explain

the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome.

The most common complaints were upper and lower airway

problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of

breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and

neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches,

memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.

Through allergy type tests the researchers found that

14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergic

to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint

of cough were either smokers or former smokers.

" These people were more concerned about the

possibility of adverse health effects from mold

exposure than the known adverse health effects from

the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a

cigarette is smoked, " Bardana and Khalili wrote.

They further noted that the environmental testing on

the sites considered by the patients to be the source

of their problems was often incomplete and did not

include other potential irritants that could have

caused allergies and other illnesses.

More Toxic Mold Study Needed

There is little argument that exposure to indoor molds

can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who

are susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee

that examined the issue concluded last year that there

is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of

symptoms.

The examination was conducted by The Institute of

Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisory

group, under the sponsorship of the CDC.

" The committee found very few studies that have

examined whether mold or other factors associated with

indoor dampness are linked to fatigue,

neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems

that some people have attributed to fungal

infestations of buildings, " the report stated.

" The little evidence that is available does not

support an association, but because of the dearth of

well-constructed studies and reliable data, the

committee could not rule out the possibility. "

University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin,

PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify

the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American

Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's

Aerobiology Committee.

She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the

research.

" They are not

based on solid science, " she says.

" There is no

hard evidence that proves (mold-related)

toxins can cause

these health conditions through

inhalation.

Living in a damp, moldy house can

certainly have a negative effect on health, but we

can't attribute this to toxins. "

SOURCES: Khalili, B. ls of Allergy, Asthma, &

Immunology, September 2005; vol 95: pp 239-246. Emil

J. Bardana, Jr., MD, Oregon

Health & Science

University, Portland.

Abba I.

Terr, MD, University of

California, San Francisco. Estelle Levetin, PhD,

professor of biology, University

of Tulsa; vice

chairwoman, American College

of Asthma, Allergy, &

Immunology committee on aerobiology. Indoor Mold

Report, Institute

of Medicine, May 25,

2004.

By Salynn Boyles

Reviewed by Brunilda Nazario, MD

© 2005, WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.

Feedback Terms of Service Privacy Statement

September 22, 2005 latimes.com

GULF COAST BESIEGED

Mold Likely to Complicate Rebuilding After Katrina

By Rosie Mestel, Times Staff Writer

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-

mold22sep22,1,3901394.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

The Gulf Coast is facing a potential financial

and legal morass over

mold blooming inside storm-damaged buildings, according to

scientists, contractors and insurance experts.

Mold has grown thickly on wet walls, rugs and furniture of thousands

of buildings — and the problem will worsen as flood waters recede.

Restoration workers are pouring into the Gulf Coast.

" There's an Oklahoma land stampede down

there, " said Shane, a

manager for Environmental Microbiology Laboratory Inc. in Chicago.

Some molds cause structural problems such as dry rot, requiring the

replacement of wood. The biggest problem, however, involves the

widespread, but unsubstantiated, contentions that some molds can

cause serious health problems.

" There's a real industry being created around the mold problem —

lawyers who've written about it call it 'black gold.' They see it as

the next great asbestos, " said Dr. Dorsett , clinical professor

of medicine at the University of Washington in Seattle.

" It is the

fear factor. You mention the word 'mold' and people are afraid. "

Mold is a general term for a group of thousands of different fungi,

including Penicillium, original source of the antibiotic penicillin,

and Stachybotrys chartarum, a black fungus with a fearsome

reputation for its supposed effects on people's health.

Mold spores are always in the air, but they only germinate when

there is enough warmth and moisture, such as from burst water pipes,

condensation, storm damage or flooding.

Feeding on the cellulose in wall board, ceiling tiles and wood, they

grow into long microscopic strands, spawning millions of new spores

that people can inhale.

Publicity about Stachybotrys has created an industry for

removing " toxic black mold. "

In extreme cases, the presence of the mold has caused people to

abandon their homes and remove the earth beneath them because of

their fear of sickness.

The presence of Stachybotrys has resulted in multimillion-dollar

judgments against insurers and contractors.

Scientists say that molds can cause some health problems. In 2004, a

report from the National Academy of Sciences concluded that indoor

mold can exacerbate symptoms such as upper respiratory irritation,

coughing and wheezing in people with asthma.

In rare cases, it can cause a flu-like immune disorder known as

hypersensitivity pneumonitis.

Damp environments often found with mold may also cause shortness of

breath, lower respiratory illness in healthy children and the

development of asthma in people who are prone to it.

The report, however, found no connection between molds and a range

of serious conditions, including chronic fatigue, cancer, bleeding

of the lungs, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, memory loss and learning

disabilities.

Stachybotrys and

some other molds do produce toxins, called

mycotoxins, that

are dangerous to animals and people if eaten.

But " you can't

get enough mycotoxin inside if you're breathing the

spores, " said

Bruce Kelman, a board certified toxicologist with

Veritox Inc., a

toxicology consulting company.

The problem facing homeowners, insurers and contractors is that

there are virtually no health standards on mold decontamination and

very little data on what is necessary to get spore numbers down to

safe levels.

Because getting rid of mold is expensive, many houses that are still

structurally sound may be razed, experts predicted. The problem will

be exacerbated by the fact that flood and mold damage is generally

not covered by standard home insurance.

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

I think this problem is typical of the way American politics works. Rather than working on the premise of “first do no harm†we operate on premise of “it will do no harm unless you prove it.†This approach has been extremely problematic for us as a nation and citizens of the world. This stance is taken to protect someone’s economic interest. This occurs because Congress has to protect interstate commerce and the strict standards set by the courts (the ultimate answer on the issue). This all came about because the Supreme Court gave corporations the same rights as individuals in the early 1800s. (The ultimate insult to Jefferson and his crowd from the federalist bench)

Add to this the fact that the media’s job is to stir debate and encourage thinking, so they portray each side as valid and give 50% of the press to both sides regardless of the arguments. Look at global warming. About 95% of the scientific community has been warning about global warming since the late 80s, but the press still acts as if the 5% share equal knowledge and motivation. For another example, look at the debate about “intelligent design.†I know of no credible biologist that supports the idea of intelligent design, but the press and special interests continue to act as if there is, or might be, science in the ID position.

I think a huge part of the problem is that we have all of these really smart scientists working diligently on their research but have scant few middlemen to bring the message into laymen’s terms. The reasons for this are complicated and have to do with the fact that our society does not produce generalist as a rule. Specialists by their nature generally only see the trees. Since, historically, there has been little motivation to teach the general over the specific, very few people are seeing the forest. We have a lot of people describing parts of the elephant but very few putting the jigsaw puzzle together.

I see this list as a place to begin to explain these complicated issues to the less informed. I’ve heard it said that in our age there is so much data being generated that the genus of today is one that can take these complicated issues and distill them into some cognitively cohesive element that is within the ken of the average Joe.

Unfortunately none of this helps with the issues that you bring up today. J

I always enjoy your posts.

Thanks

Mark Doughty

Wow Mark! Very well put. I was in DC last week regarding this issue. Everybody these days only seems to be able to understand if one can talk in sound bites. Try to explain the mold issue in 50 words or less. Indications are I had some success: Financial interests are stifling medical understanding. Eliminate this scenario. Move the science forward. Train the physicians. Inform the public. Word count, 14. Yahoo!

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Ignoring allergic response to mold, for the moment,I have a hypothesis about mold and bacteria exposure. It is that we are normally in a homeostatic infection balance with these micro organisms. Our lungs present the ideal growth conditions with food, water and temperature. Normally, our immunity systems and muco ciliary clearance keep these infections under control.This homeostasis is similar to the immunity system's control of cells that become abnormal and are killed off to control potential cancers.It is when this balance gets out of control such as in immuno-compromised persons, that mold grows for a much longer period before it is killed by the immunity system or cleared from the lungs and moved into the stomach. During this growth time, it produce metabolic compounds, such as mycotoxins, that produce many of the reported symptoms. This growth hypothesis would explain why we "see?" mycotoxin affects without apparent measureable exposure.This hypothesis is only supported by one good piece of evidence that I am aware of. This is that 95% of all cystic fibrosis patients develop Aspergillosis. These people have very thick mucous, that only very slowly is removed from their lungs. Certainly, during this long time, fungi grow in this material before it is finally swallowed and the mold killed in the stomach. Ingestion of these mycotoxins may also be involved.We also have one case of a woman who was exposed to sewer water aerosol and developed diarrhea and digestive symptom. She later developed a mucor infection in her lungs that spread to her blood stream.Food for thought? Much more research is needed!BOB

Bob,

As I understand it, your hypothesis is exactly right. That's why when one is on antibiotics alot, fungal conditions thrive as the bacteria that keeps the fungi in check has been depleted. Plus things like pennicilin have a fungal base to be used to kill bacteria. As antibiotics have only really been around for about 50 years, some say that could explain some of the increase for fungal conditions. (along with the airtight, sponge, petrie dishes we live in) I am certainly no medical professional, but as I understand it, this balance thing is a key component. That's one of the reasons for the dramatic upsurge in homeopathic/ probiotic/natural long term remedies as opposed to just throwing an antibiotic at it....keep bacteria and fungi in balance with each other. Used to be strickly an AMA kinda girl, but lately I am looking for my Birkenstocks!

Sharon

PS. Where did you get that 95% statistic. My daughter has CF, CFS and ABPA.

[Guest guest]

Ignoring allergic response to mold, for the moment,

I have a hypothesis about mold and bacteria exposure. It is that we

are normally in a homeostatic infection balance with these micro

organisms. Our lungs present the ideal growth conditions with food,

water and temperature. Normally, our immunity systems and muco

ciliary clearance keep these infections under control.

This homeostasis is similar to the immunity system's control of cells

that become abnormal and are killed off to control potential cancers.

It is when this balance gets out of control such as in

immuno-compromised persons, that mold grows for a much longer period

before it is killed by the immunity system or cleared from the lungs

and moved into the stomach. During this growth time, it produce

metabolic compounds, such as mycotoxins, that produce many of the

reported symptoms. This growth hypothesis would explain why we " see? "

mycotoxin affects without apparent measureable exposure.

This hypothesis is only supported by one good piece of evidence that I

am aware of. This is that 95% of all cystic fibrosis patients develop

Aspergillosis. These people have very thick mucous, that only very

slowly is removed from their lungs. Certainly, during this long time,

fungi grow in this material before it is finally swallowed and the mold

killed in the stomach. Ingestion of these mycotoxins may also be

involved.

We also have one case of a woman who was exposed to sewer water aerosol

and developed diarrhea and digestive symptom. She later developed a

mucor infection in her lungs that spread to her blood stream.

Food for thought? Much more research is needed!

BOB

[Guest guest]

Sharon - I will be pleased to discuss and reply to your current questions. As a matter of fact, I did respond to your previous ones. First, I acknowledged that I agreed with what he DID SAY; namely that "We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat,". I just wanted to let you know that I agreed with that. One can not take anything for granted, when so many people seem to not believe or agree with what is clearly demonstrated in current science. I know an MD in Texas that seems to think mold is good for you; I am not out there in far right field with him. If you read the rest of the first paragraph, you saw my answer regarding the inhaled data. Now on to your current questions regarding my read on what the current science actually says:

I have two Yes or No questions:

1. Do you agree with the statement that "there is little evidence that inhaled environmental

mold exposure can cause the serious illness that have been attributed to it"?

Yes____ x _____ No_________

Because, they are talking about, and Bardana is responding to, questions about "toxic mold syndrome" presumed to be caused by inhaled mycotoxins. So while the toxic effects of mold following ingestion are well-understood, the toxic effects of inhaled mold particles are not well documented, and there is LITTLE EVIDENCE, and I am being liberal in checking Yes above because there is essentially NO evidence that mycotoxins are capable of causing the kinds of serious illnesses (non-allergy, non-asthma, non-HP) that are being attributed in all of these "toxic mold syndrome lawsuits. If someone has allergy, asthma, or HP, fine. But if someone has brain damage or even forgetfulness, well, forget it. In fact, the findings so far are that NO credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold syndrome." especially at the levels that people are exposed to in buildings, even really really stinky ones.

2. In light of Katrina and all the families (including their children) that will be cleaning up mold

within their homes and are not as educated to matter as someone such as yourself, is in

the best interest of public safety to put out the message "there is little evidence that

inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been

attributed to it"?

Yes_________ Somewhere in between _____x____ No_________

Sorry, you may feel that #2 is yes, some others may say no. Even though I agree that there is little evidence of serious illnesses that were discussed in the article (and therefore could logically check No), I still am concerned about allergy, asthma and HP (so in the spirit of protection could logically check Yes). I agreed that it would be better for them to print a "safety manual" story that would tell people what the real risks are and how to protect themselves. But the REAL risks of mold were NOT the topic of discussion of the story. The bottom line is that I don't think it is wise for WebMD or anyone else to focus on the fallacy of "toxic mold syndome" when there are such real risks as allergy, asthma and HP that are very very real, if not as sexy. Better to warn against the real rather than to talk about the lack of proof for all of the hysteria. But if people weren't hysterical, they probably wouldn't be printing a story at all. So its a bit of a catch 22, isn't it? For more information regarding my opinion why the answer is somewhere between yes and no, see my answer #3 in my last post.

Respiratory Morbidity in Office Workers in a Water-Damaged Building

http://oehc.uchc.edu/clinser/MOLD%20GUIDE.pdf

(Guidance for Clinicians on Recognition and Management of Health Effects Related to Mold Exposure and Moisture Indoors)

Human Health Effects Associated with Damp Indoor Environments

The committee used a uniform set of categories to summarize its conclusions regarding the association between health outcomes and exposure to indoor dampness or the presence of mold or other agents in damp indoor environments, as listed in Box ES-1. The distinctions among categories reflect the committee’s judgment of the overall strength, quality, and persuasiveness of the scientific literature evaluated. Chapter 1 details the methodologic considerations underlying the evaluation of epidemiologic evidence and details the definitions of the categories.

BOX ES-1Summary of the Categories of Evidence Used in This Report

Sufficient Evidence of a Causal Relationship

Evidence is sufficient to conclude that a causal relationship exists between the agent and the outcome. That is, the evidence fulfills the criteria for “sufficient evidence of an association” and, in addition, satisfies the following criteria: strength of association, biologic gradient, consistency of association, biologic plausibility and coherence, and temporally correct association.

Sufficient Evidence of an Association

Evidence is sufficient to conclude that there is an association. That is, an association between the agent and the outcome has been observed in studies in which chance, bias, and confounding can be ruled out with reasonable confidence.

Limited or Suggestive Evidence of an Association

Evidence is suggestive of an association between the agent and the outcome but is limited because chance, bias, and confounding cannot be ruled out with confidence.

Inadequate or Insufficient Evidence to Determine Whether an Association Exists

The available studies are of insufficient quality, consistency, or statistical power to permit a conclusion regarding the presence of an association. Alternatively, no studies exist that examine the relationship.

Regarding Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis from IOM Report

HP is a relatively rare immune-mediated condition, and only susceptible people exposed to a sensitizing antigen develop clinically significant disease. It has thus been studied with relation to specific agents rather than dampness in general. Studies reviewed by the committee indicate that there is sufficient evidence of an association between the presence of mold and bacteria in damp indoor environments and hypersensitivity pneumonitis in such people. Others are not at risk for this disease.

(Footnote: Nowhere in the IOM Report do they define "susceptible people". One would have to assume if they developed HP, then they must have been susceptible!)

Inhalation Fevers

Inhalation fever is the general name given to any one of a number of influenza-like, self-limited syndromes caused by a heterogeneous group of stimuli (Blanc, 1997). Two that have been potentially associated with damp indoor environments are briefly addressed here.

Humidifier fever is an illness that consists of a febrile reaction accompanied by respiratory tract symptoms and fatigue. It does not manifest the radiographic or laboratory abnormalities consistent with HP and it is thought to be a nonimmunologic reaction (Baur et al., 1988).

Organic dust toxic syndrome (ODTS) is a self-limiting noninfectious febrile illness that occurs after heavy organic-dust exposure by inhalation (Emanuel et al., 1975; Marx et al., 1981; Von Essen et al., 1990). Common symptoms include malaise, myalgia, headache, nonproductive cough, fever and nausea—symptoms that resemble those of acute HP. However, unlike HP, prior sensitization is not required in ODTS, serum precipitin antibodies against fungi are negative, the chest x-ray picture usually does not show infiltrates, there is no hypoxemia, there is no restriction or low CO diffusing capacity on lung-function testing. ODTS shares with HP the laboratory finding of leukocytosis with a predominance of neutrophils and a left shift during the acute phase.

I am attaching the whole WebMD article for reference:

Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold' Illness Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness By Salynn BoylesWebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MDon Friday, September 30, 2005 Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent years by people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little evidence to support the claims.Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could be identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the condition that has come to be known as "toxic mold syndrome."They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold syndrometoxic mold syndrome."We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat," Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesseslittle evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been attributed to it."Hurricane HousesAs the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposureHurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposure have taken on a new urgency.Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board, ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures will pose obvious dangers to health, Bardana says."There is no comparison between a home that has literally been underwater for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitely going to be a huge issue with these houses."10,000 LawsuitsBardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news reports of a cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp, indoor surfaces.A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million to a family who's newly constructed mansion was contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance Information Institute estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the number was growing.In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or workers' compensation claims. The researchers also identified unrecognized conditions that could explain the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome.The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches, memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint of cough were either smokers or former smokers."These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse health effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects from the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote.They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites considered by the patients to be the source of their problems was often incomplete and did not include other potential irritants that could have caused allergies and other illnesses.More Toxic Mold Study NeededThere is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen asthmaindoor molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who are susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee that examined the issue concluded last year that there is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of symptoms.The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of the CDC."The committee found very few studies that have examined whether mold or other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue, neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some people have attributed to fungal infestations of buildings," the report stated."The little evidence that is available does not support an association, but because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable data, the committee could not rule out the possibility."University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin, PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology Committee.She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research."They are not based on solid science," she says. "There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health conditions through inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly have a negative effect on health, but we can't attribute this to toxins."

One more question: What is being put out to public regarding illnesses induced by excessive mold exposure within an indoor environment, is that more beneficial to:

a. the safety of the American public; or,

b. the defense argument within a courtroom?

a._________ b.__________

Sharon

[Guest guest]

,

I do not see anywhere in the article where the very serious illness of HP is acknowledged. Can you point it out to me? What I see is the statement going out to people who do not know the difference between HP, COPD, Toxic Mold Syndrome, ABPA, CFS, etc, that says: "We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat," Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been attributed to it." What I see is the projection to people who will be cleaning up mold that they need not worry about breathing it in. It is only dangerous when eaten.

As far as hysteria, you raise an interesting point. There WILL BE hysteria after Katrina if it is not publicly acknowledged and if the physicians are not trained of the serious illnesses caused by inhaling mold. What will happen, and it happens everyday all across America, is that some people will become seriously ill after inhaling mold spores or mold toxins. They won't be able to find any medical help because as we all know, the doctors are not trained on this stuff. Most do not even acknowledge that inhaling mold within an indoor environment can cause serious illness. They are being told it is hype, hysteria, media, junk science and trial lawyers. I can't even tell you the number of very ill mold victims I know who have been treated with great distain by their physicians who think it is hype, hysteria..... Talk about insult to injury.

Some from Katrina will get very sick and their friends and families will witness it. What their friends and families will also witness is the sick person getting no help and the doctors telling them mold does not cause this. People tend to believe what they witness with their own eyes. They will understand that mold does indeed cause this. But without understanding where, when, how much, how long one must realistically be exposed to mold to become ill, they will start to freak out if they see a little mold in their shower and have a runny nose.

Ironically, the stifling of medical knowledge regarding the serious illnesses caused by mold exposure for the purposes of keeping lawsuits down, is exactly what is fueling the confusion that drives the hysteria and causes the lawsuits to continue.

Basically, much is known of illnesses that are induced by fungal exposure, whether it be eaten, physically contacted or inhaled. We need to take this information and apply it to symptoms indicative of possible mycotic disease, no matter where or how the exposure occurred. Then either rule it out or treat it. One of the biggest problems with this issue is that the environment that is causing the problem is owned by someone. This causes the opportunity for negligent maintenance to be the root of the problem and therefore, the negligent ones'financial responsibility for the illness of others. This, of course, causes litigation over just how ill someone really is and just how negligent someone really was. This causes attorneys and expert witnesses to present their clients' interest in the best light possible. I know you all are going to find this hard to believe, but sometimes attorneys and expert witnesses put a spin on things. And some will spin quite a bit more than others. This causes two sides to the story and perpetuates the confusion over an already complicated and young field of science. The sad thing for everyone involved in this issue is that the contention in the courtrooms stifles and conveludes the medical understanding of what is becoming increasingly prevalent and diverse fungal illnesses. If the medical understanding was permitted to flourish and all elements of what is known of mycotic disease was allowed to be added into the equation (not just what is known about indoor mold/mycotoxins, but all mold/mycotoxins) more would be rapidly understood. If more was understood, people would not become as sick as they currently are being allowed to become. They would get early treatment and know to get away from what is making them sick. If people got early treatment and did not become as severely ill, then the damage from one's neglegance would be greatly reduced, and so would the resultant financial liability. I am of the opinion that the stakeholder industries should be doing everything they possibly can to move the science forward, asap. It would help us get this issue out of the courtrooms, save lives and save us all a ton of money. We need to Move the Science Forward, Train the Physicians and Inform the People.

Sharon Kramer

Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold' Illness Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness By Salynn BoylesWebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MDon Friday, September 30, 2005 Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent years by people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little evidence to support the claims.Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could be identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the condition that has come to be known as "toxic mold syndrome."They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold syndrometoxic mold syndrome.Hurricane HousesAs the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposureHurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposure have taken on a new urgency.Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board, ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures will pose obvious dangers to health, Bardana says."There is no comparison between a home that has literally been underwater for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitely going to be a huge issue with these houses."10,000 LawsuitsBardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news reports of a cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp, indoor surfaces.A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million to a family who's newly constructed mansion was contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance Information Institute estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the number was growing.In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or workers' compensation claims. The researchers also identified unrecognized conditions that could explain the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome.The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches, memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint of cough were either smokers or former smokers."These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse health effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects from the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote.They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites considered by the patients to be the source of their problems was often incomplete and did not include other potential irritants that could have caused allergies and other illnesses.More Toxic Mold Study NeededThere is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen asthmaindoor molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who are susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee that examined the issue concluded last year that there is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of symptoms.The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of the CDC."The committee found very few studies that have examined whether mold or other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue, neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some people have attributed to fungal infestations of buildings," the report stated."The little evidence that is available does not support an association, but because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable data, the committee could not rule out the possibility."University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin, PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology Committee.She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research."They are not based on solid science," she says. "There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health conditions through inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly have a negative effect on health, but we can't attribute this to toxins."

[Guest guest]

Wow! You guys have some serious time on your

hands!!! Anybody care to figure out how I can

clone myself so I can get caught up on all of my work

before heading off to Orlando?

heehee

Msssss. Champion

From: iequality

[mailto:iequality ] On Behalf

Of Dotson

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005

6:42 PM

To: iequality

Subject: RE: Mold only

dangerous when digested.

Sharon - I will be pleased to discuss and

reply to your current questions. As a matter of fact, I did respond to

your previous ones. First, I acknowledged that I agreed with what he DID SAY;

namely that " We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the

foods they eat, " . I just wanted to let you know that I agreed with that.

One can not take anything for granted, when so many people seem to not believe

or agree with what is clearly demonstrated in current science. I know an MD in Texas that seems to

think mold is good for you; I am not out there in far right field with him. If

you read the rest of the first paragraph, you saw my answer regarding the

inhaled data. Now on to your current questions regarding my read on what

the current science actually says:

I have two Yes or No

questions:

1. Do you agree with the

statement that " there is little evidence that

inhaled environmental

mold exposure

can cause the serious illness that have been attributed to it " ?

Yes____ x _____ No_________

Because, they are talking about, and

Bardana is responding to, questions about " toxic mold syndrome "

presumed to be caused by inhaled mycotoxins. So while the toxic effects of mold

following ingestion are well-understood, the toxic effects of inhaled mold

particles are not well documented, and there is LITTLE EVIDENCE, and I am being

liberal in checking Yes above because there is essentially NO evidence that

mycotoxins are capable of causing the kinds of serious illnesses (non-allergy,

non-asthma, non-HP) that are being attributed in all of these " toxic mold

syndrome lawsuits. If someone has allergy, asthma, or HP, fine. But if someone

has brain damage or even forgetfulness, well, forget it. In fact, the findings so

far are that NO credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to

the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold

syndrome. " especially at the levels that people are exposed to in

buildings, even really really stinky ones.

2. In light of Katrina and all the

families (including their children) that will be cleaning up mold

within their

homes and are not as educated to matter as someone such as yourself, is in

the

best interest of public safety to put out the message " there is little evidence

that

inhaled

environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have

been

attributed to

it " ?

Yes_________ Somewhere in between

_____x____ No_________

Sorry, you may feel that #2 is

yes, some others may say no. Even though I agree that there is

little evidence of serious illnesses that were discussed in the article (and

therefore could logically check No), I still am concerned about allergy, asthma

and HP (so in the spirit of protection could logically check Yes). I agreed

that it would be better for them to print a " safety manual " story

that would tell people what the real risks are and how to protect themselves.

But the REAL risks of mold were NOT the topic of discussion of the story. The

bottom line is that I don't think it is wise for WebMD or anyone else to focus

on the fallacy of " toxic mold syndome " when there are such

real risks as allergy, asthma and HP that are very very real, if not as

sexy. Better to warn against the real rather than to talk about the lack

of proof for all of the hysteria. But if people weren't hysterical, they

probably wouldn't be printing a story at all. So its a bit of a catch 22, isn't

it? For more information regarding my opinion why the answer is somewhere

between yes and no, see my answer #3 in my last post.

Respiratory

Morbidity in Office Workers in a Water-Damaged Building

http://oehc.uchc.edu/clinser/MOLD%20GUIDE.pdf

(Guidance for Clinicians on Recognition

and Management of Health Effects Related to Mold Exposure and Moisture Indoors)

Human Health Effects Associated with Damp Indoor

Environments

The committee used a uniform set of

categories to summarize its conclusions regarding the association between

health outcomes and exposure to indoor dampness or the presence of mold or

other agents in damp indoor environments, as listed in Box

ES-1. The distinctions among categories reflect the committee’s

judgment of the overall strength, quality, and persuasiveness of the scientific

literature evaluated. Chapter

1 details the methodologic considerations underlying the evaluation of

epidemiologic evidence and details the definitions of the categories.

BOX ES-1

Summary of the Categories of Evidence Used in This Report

Sufficient Evidence of a Causal Relationship

Evidence is sufficient to conclude that a causal relationship exists

between the agent and the outcome. That is, the evidence fulfills the

criteria for “sufficient evidence of an association” and, in

addition, satisfies the following criteria: strength of association, biologic

gradient, consistency of association, biologic plausibility and coherence,

and temporally correct association.

Sufficient Evidence of an Association

Evidence is sufficient to conclude that there is an association. That

is, an association between the agent and the outcome has been observed in

studies in which chance, bias, and confounding can be ruled out with

reasonable confidence.

Limited or Suggestive Evidence of an Association

Evidence is suggestive of an association between the agent and the

outcome but is limited because chance, bias, and confounding cannot be ruled

out with confidence.

Inadequate or Insufficient Evidence to Determine

Whether an Association Exists

The available studies are of insufficient quality, consistency, or

statistical power to permit a conclusion regarding the presence of an

association. Alternatively, no studies exist that examine the relationship.

Regarding

Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis from IOM Report

HP

is a relatively rare immune-mediated condition, and only susceptible people

exposed to a sensitizing antigen develop clinically significant disease. It

has thus been studied with relation to specific agents rather than dampness

in general. Studies reviewed by the committee indicate that there is

sufficient evidence of an association between the presence of mold and

bacteria in damp indoor environments and hypersensitivity pneumonitis in

such people. Others are not at risk for this disease.

(Footnote:

Nowhere in the IOM Report do they define " susceptible

people " . One would have to assume if they developed HP, then they

must have been susceptible!)

Inhalation

Fevers

Inhalation fever is the general name given to any

one of a number of influenza-like, self-limited syndromes caused by a

heterogeneous group of stimuli (Blanc, 1997). Two that have been potentially

associated with damp indoor environments are briefly addressed here.

Humidifier fever is an illness that consists of a febrile reaction

accompanied by respiratory tract symptoms and fatigue. It does not manifest

the radiographic or laboratory abnormalities consistent with HP and it is

thought to be a nonimmunologic reaction (Baur et al., 1988).

Organic dust toxic syndrome (ODTS) is a self-limiting

noninfectious febrile illness that occurs after heavy organic-dust exposure

by inhalation (Emanuel et al., 1975; Marx et al., 1981; Von Essen et al.,

1990). Common symptoms include malaise, myalgia, headache, nonproductive

cough, fever and nausea—symptoms that resemble those of acute HP.

However, unlike HP, prior sensitization is not required in ODTS, serum

precipitin antibodies against fungi are negative, the chest x-ray picture

usually does not show infiltrates, there is no hypoxemia, there is no

restriction or low CO diffusing capacity on lung-function testing. ODTS

shares with HP the laboratory finding of leukocytosis with a predominance of

neutrophils and a left shift during the acute phase.

I am attaching the whole WebMD article for

reference:

Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold' Illness

Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness

By Salynn Boyles

WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda

Nazario, MD

on Friday, September 30, 2005

Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent years by

people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made them ill.

Now a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little evidence

to support the claims.

Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could be

identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the condition

that has come to be known as " toxic mold syndrome. "

They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold

exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with

toxic mold syndrometoxic mold syndrome.

" We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they

eat, " Oregon

Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil

J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. " But there is little evidence that

inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesseslittle

evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious

illnesses that have been attributed to it. "

Hurricane Houses

As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold

exposureHurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposure

have taken on a new urgency.

Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in floodwaters

for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall

board, ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.

Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures will pose

obvious dangers to health, Bardana says.

" There is no comparison between a home that has literally been

underwater for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed, " he

says. " Mold is definitely going to be a huge issue with these

houses. "

10,000 Lawsuits

Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news reports of

a cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were initially

blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as stachybotrys, which

grows on damp, indoor surfaces.

A few years later, a Texas

jury awarded $32 million to a family who's newly constructed mansion was

contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance Information Institute

estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the

number was growing.

In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin Khalili, MD,

described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-related

lawsuits or workers' compensation claims. The researchers also identified

unrecognized conditions that could explain the symptoms being attributed to

toxic mold syndrome.

The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems such as nasal

congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and

neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches, memory loss, mood

disorders, and insomnia.

Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet owners with

allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint

of cough were either smokers or former smokers.

" These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse

health effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects from

the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked, "

Bardana and Khalili wrote.

They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites considered by

the patients to be the source of their problems was often incomplete and did

not include other potential irritants that could have caused allergies and

other illnesses.

More Toxic Mold Study Needed

There is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen

asthmaindoor molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who are

susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee that examined the issue

concluded last year that there is no clear proof that mold causes these

complexes of symptoms.

The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a private,

nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of the CDC.

" The committee found very few studies that have examined whether mold or

other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue,

neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some people have

attributed to fungal infestations of buildings, " the report stated.

" The little evidence that is available does not support an association,

but because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable data, the

committee could not rule out the possibility. "

University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle

Levetin, PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify the issue.

Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American

Academy of Allergy,

Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology Committee.

She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research.

" They are not based on solid science, " she says. " There is no

hard evidence that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health

conditions through inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly

have a negative effect on health, but we can't attribute this to

toxins. "

One more question: What is being put out to

public regarding illnesses induced by excessive mold exposure within an

indoor environment, is that more beneficial to:

a. the safety of the American public; or,

b. the defense argument within a courtroom?

a._________ b.__________

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Sharon –

You are a consumer advocate. does defense

litigation. Even though his website states:

" Toxic " Mold - Certified

Industrial Hygienist - Expert Witness Services -

B. Dotson, CIH, CSP, DEE provides litigation support regarding water

damage and mold growth in buildings and the health effects

associated with human exposure related to such growth, including

the nosocomial infection issues in healthcare environments such

as hospital operating rooms.

(Which I find somewhat amusing…) You guys could go

in circles for years. Please trust me when I

say – from experience - that it is very wise to

choose your battles or you will burn yourself out.

Teach the people who want

to be taught and it will have a larger impact. I know that you

are incredibly pro-active,

so keep putting your energy into those things or you’re

going to feel like you’re banging your head against a

brick wall!

No offense to you , but you seem to be extremely set

in your opinions; so I think it becomes redundant to

keep arguing the same points (that’s what the

attorneys are for!)

I’m done now.

Best Regards,

Stacey Champion

From:

iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of snk1955@...

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:48

AM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Mold only

dangerous when digested.

,

I do not see anywhere in the article

where the very serious illness of HP is acknowledged. Can you point it

out to me? What I see is the statement going out to people who do not

know the difference between HP, COPD, Toxic Mold Syndrome, ABPA, CFS, etc, that

says: " We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods

they eat, " Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine

Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. " But there is little evidence that

inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have

been attributed to it. " What I see is the projection to people who

will be cleaning up mold that they need not worry about breathing it in.

It is only dangerous when eaten.

As far as hysteria, you raise an

interesting point. There WILL BE hysteria after Katrina if it

is not publicly acknowledged and if the physicians are not trained of the

serious illnesses caused by inhaling mold. What will happen, and it

happens everyday all across America,

is that some people will become seriously ill after inhaling mold spores or

mold toxins. They won't be able to find any medical help because as we

all know, the doctors are not trained on this stuff. Most do not even

acknowledge that inhaling mold within an indoor environment can cause

serious illness. They are being told it is hype, hysteria, media, junk

science and trial lawyers. I can't even tell you the number of very ill

mold victims I know who have been treated with great distain by their

physicians who think it is hype, hysteria..... Talk about insult to injury.

Some from Katrina will get very sick

and their friends and families will witness it. What their friends and

families will also witness is the sick person getting no help and the doctors

telling them mold does not cause this. People tend to believe what they

witness with their own eyes. They will understand that mold does

indeed cause this. But without understanding where, when, how much, how long

one must realistically be exposed to mold to become ill, they will start to

freak out if they see a little mold in their shower and have a runny

nose.

Ironically, the stifling of medical

knowledge regarding the serious illnesses caused by mold exposure for the

purposes of keeping lawsuits down, is exactly what is fueling the

confusion that drives the hysteria and causes the lawsuits to continue.

Basically, much is known of illnesses that are

induced by fungal exposure, whether it be eaten, physically contacted or inhaled.

We need to take this information and apply it to symptoms indicative of

possible mycotic disease, no matter where or how the exposure occurred. Then

either rule it out or treat it.

One of the biggest problems with this issue is

that the environment that is causing the problem is owned by someone. This

causes the opportunity for negligent maintenance to be the root of the problem

and therefore, the negligent ones'financial responsibility for the illness of

others. This, of course, causes litigation over just how ill someone really is

and just how negligent someone really was.

This causes attorneys and expert witnesses to

present their clients' interest in the best light

possible. I know you all are going to find this hard to believe, but sometimes

attorneys and expert witnesses put a spin on things. And some will spin quite a

bit more than others. This causes two sides to the story and perpetuates the

confusion over an already complicated and young field of science.

The sad thing for everyone involved in this

issue is that the contention in the courtrooms stifles and conveludes the

medical understanding of what is becoming increasingly prevalent and diverse

fungal illnesses. If the medical understanding was permitted to flourish and

all elements of what is known of mycotic disease was allowed to be added into

the equation (not just what is known about indoor mold/mycotoxins, but all

mold/mycotoxins) more would be rapidly understood. If more was understood,

people would not become as sick as they currently are being allowed to become.

They would get early treatment and know to get away from what is making them

sick. If people got early treatment and did not become as severely ill, then

the damage from one's neglegance would be greatly reduced, and so would the

resultant financial liability.

I am of the opinion that the stakeholder

industries should be doing everything they possibly can to move the science

forward, asap. It would help us get this issue out of the courtrooms, save

lives and save us all a ton of money. We need to Move the Science Forward,

Train the Physicians and Inform the People.

Sharon

Kramer

Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold'

Illness

Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness

By Salynn Boyles

WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda

Nazario, MD

on Friday, September 30, 2005

Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent years by

people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now

a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little evidence to

support the claims.

Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could be

identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the condition that

has come to be known as " toxic mold syndrome. "

They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold

exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic

mold syndrometoxic mold syndrome.

Hurricane Houses

As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes

Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposureHurricanes Katrina and

Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposure have taken on a new urgency.

Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in floodwaters

for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board,

ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.

Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures will pose

obvious dangers to health, Bardana says.

" There is no comparison between a home that has literally been underwater

for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed, " he says. " Mold

is definitely going to be a huge issue with these houses. "

10,000 Lawsuits

Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news reports of a

cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were initially

blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as stachybotrys, which

grows on damp, indoor surfaces.

A few years later, a Texas

jury awarded $32 million to a family who's newly constructed mansion was

contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance Information Institute

estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the

number was growing.

In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin Khalili, MD,

described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits

or workers' compensation claims. The researchers also identified unrecognized

conditions that could explain the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold

syndrome.

The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems such as nasal

congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and

neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches, memory loss, mood disorders,

and insomnia.

Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet owners with

allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those with a

complaint of cough were either smokers or former smokers.

" These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse health

effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects from the

thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked, " Bardana

and Khalili wrote.

They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites considered by

the patients to be the source of their problems was often incomplete and did

not include other potential irritants that could have caused allergies and

other illnesses.

More Toxic Mold Study Needed

There is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen asthmaindoor

molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who are susceptible. But

a government-sponsored committee that examined the issue concluded last year

that there is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of symptoms.

The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a private,

nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of the CDC.

" The committee found very few studies that have examined whether mold or

other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue,

neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some people have

attributed to fungal infestations of buildings, " the report stated.

" The little evidence that is available does not support an association,

but because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable data, the

committee could not rule out the possibility. "

University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin,

PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify the issue. Levetin is vice

chairwoman of the American

Academy of Allergy,

Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology Committee.

She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research.

" They are not based on solid science, " she says. " There is no

hard evidence that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health

conditions through inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly have

a negative effect on health, but we can't attribute this to toxins. "

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the thoughtful post. I agree with much of what you said. Regarding your first sentence, its not there; I think people may not focus much on HP because it is a relatively rare dysfunction relative to all of the allergy and asthma, although certainly bad for the few that actually have it.

Regarding your comment "I am of the opinion that the stakeholder industries should be doing everything they possibly can to move the science forward, asap. It would help us get this issue out of the courtrooms, save lives and save us all a ton of money. We need to Move the Science Forward, Train the Physicians and Inform the People." --- I agree. However, I don't see any push to speed up the science other than by the ones paying and others trying to be increase their exposure in the business. Many of the current stakeholders make money off the fact that there is not clarity. If there was clarity, a lot of people would be out of business. Kind of like the CPAs in America not exactly being the lead group (and understandably) campaigning for a simple tax code....

B. Dotson, CIH, CSP San , CA

email: kyle@...

-----Original Message-----From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of snk1955@...Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:48 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Mold only dangerous when digested.

,

I do not see anywhere in the article where the very serious illness of HP is acknowledged. Can you point it out to me? What I see is the statement going out to people who do not know the difference between HP, COPD, Toxic Mold Syndrome, ABPA, CFS, etc, that says: "We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat," Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been attributed to it." What I see is the projection to people who will be cleaning up mold that they need not worry about breathing it in. It is only dangerous when eaten.

As far as hysteria, you raise an interesting point. There WILL BE hysteria after Katrina if it is not publicly acknowledged and if the physicians are not trained of the serious illnesses caused by inhaling mold. What will happen, and it happens everyday all across America, is that some people will become seriously ill after inhaling mold spores or mold toxins. They won't be able to find any medical help because as we all know, the doctors are not trained on this stuff. Most do not even acknowledge that inhaling mold within an indoor environment can cause serious illness. They are being told it is hype, hysteria, media, junk science and trial lawyers. I can't even tell you the number of very ill mold victims I know who have been treated with great distain by their physicians who think it is hype, hysteria..... Talk about insult to injury.

Some from Katrina will get very sick and their friends and families will witness it. What their friends and families will also witness is the sick person getting no help and the doctors telling them mold does not cause this. People tend to believe what they witness with their own eyes. They will understand that mold does indeed cause this. But without understanding where, when, how much, how long one must realistically be exposed to mold to become ill, they will start to freak out if they see a little mold in their shower and have a runny nose.

Ironically, the stifling of medical knowledge regarding the serious illnesses caused by mold exposure for the purposes of keeping lawsuits down, is exactly what is fueling the confusion that drives the hysteria and causes the lawsuits to continue.

Basically, much is known of illnesses that are induced by fungal exposure, whether it be eaten, physically contacted or inhaled. We need to take this information and apply it to symptoms indicative of possible mycotic disease, no matter where or how the exposure occurred. Then either rule it out or treat it. One of the biggest problems with this issue is that the environment that is causing the problem is owned by someone. This causes the opportunity for negligent maintenance to be the root of the problem and therefore, the negligent ones'financial responsibility for the illness of others. This, of course, causes litigation over just how ill someone really is and just how negligent someone really was. This causes attorneys and expert witnesses to present their clients' interest in the best light possible. I know you all are going to find this hard to believe, but sometimes attorneys and expert witnesses put a spin on things. And some will spin quite a bit more than others. This causes two sides to the story and perpetuates the confusion over an already complicated and young field of science. The sad thing for everyone involved in this issue is that the contention in the courtrooms stifles and conveludes the medical understanding of what is becoming increasingly prevalent and diverse fungal illnesses. If the medical understanding was permitted to flourish and all elements of what is known of mycotic disease was allowed to be added into the equation (not just what is known about indoor mold/mycotoxins, but all mold/mycotoxins) more would be rapidly understood. If more was understood, people would not become as sick as they currently are being allowed to become. They would get early treatment and know to get away from what is making them sick. If people got early treatment and did not become as severely ill, then the damage from one's neglegance would be greatly reduced, and so would the resultant financial liability. I am of the opinion that the stakeholder industries should be doing everything they possibly can to move the science forward, asap. It would help us get this issue out of the courtrooms, save lives and save us all a ton of money. We need to Move the Science Forward, Train the Physicians and Inform the People.

Sharon Kramer

Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold' Illness Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness By Salynn BoylesWebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MDon Friday, September 30, 2005 Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent years by people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little evidence to support the claims.Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could be identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the condition that has come to be known as "toxic mold syndrome."They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold syndrometoxic mold syndrome.Hurricane HousesAs the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposureHurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposure have taken on a new urgency.Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board, ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures will pose obvious dangers to health, Bardana says."There is no comparison between a home that has literally been underwater for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitely going to be a huge issue with these houses."10,000 LawsuitsBardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news reports of a cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp, indoor surfaces.A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million to a family who's newly constructed mansion was contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance Information Institute estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the number was growing.In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or workers' compensation claims. The researchers also identified unrecognized conditions that could explain the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome.The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches, memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint of cough were either smokers or former smokers."These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse health effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects from the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote.They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites considered by the patients to be the source of their problems was often incomplete and did not include other potential irritants that could have caused allergies and other illnesses.More Toxic Mold Study NeededThere is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen asthmaindoor molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who are susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee that examined the issue concluded last year that there is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of symptoms.The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of the CDC."The committee found very few studies that have examined whether mold or other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue, neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some people have attributed to fungal infestations of buildings," the report stated."The little evidence that is available does not support an association, but because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable data, the committee could not rule out the possibility."University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin, PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology Committee.She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research."They are not based on solid science," she says. "There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health conditions through inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly have a negative effect on health, but we can't attribute this to toxins."

[Guest guest]



Sharon,

Perhaps you are missing the actual elements of the controversy.

I'm feeling your two questions are meaningless unless you add the modifier "scientific" to read "there is little scientific evidence. . . ." in both questions.

This past Sunday I attended a fair where there was a USDA booth with microscopes and exhibits showing plant rust and discussing the dangers to our agriculture with such plant diseases. I suggested to the senior mycologist in charge of the booth that with today's interest in black molds and residential molds that such a subject would be of greater interest than plant rusts. He laughed and said the black mold problem is a political problem as there is no scientific evidence that airborne spores can be harmful. He did add that a healthy person should have no problem resisting the effects of mold.

As far as I am concerned the children dying several years ago in Cleveland, Ohio is good evidence mold is harmful to many people. However without an understanding of the anatomical effects of mold there will be continued controversy and opportunity for lawyers to make millions attempting to sway juries for sickened clients.

The comment by Emil that "It is not good to eat mold" unfortunately is oversimplified as the cheese and beer industries have been dependent on mold cultures since civilization began. Such comments sound silly and distract from the true problem that there are molds that are in effect poisonous as there are mushrooms that are poisonous to eat as there are mushrooms that are healthy.

Respectfully,

Ken

============================

Re: Mold only dangerous when digested.

Hi Mr. Dodson,

This is what you wrote:

"I agree with Emil Bardana. He has made a correct statement that is wellestablished in the current science. It is not good to eat mold."

Duh! Of course it is not good to eat mold. But that is not what Emil Bardana said. You are paraphrasing his comments in your response. Here is the DIRECT quote:

"We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat," Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been attributed to it."

I have two Yes or No questions:

1. Do you agree with the statement that "there is little evidence that inhaled environmental

mold exposure can cause the serious illness that have been attributed to it"?

Yes_________ No_________

2. In light of Katrina and all the families (including their children) that will be cleaning up mold

within their homes and are not as educated to matter as someone such as yourself, is in

the best interest of public safety to put out the message "there is little evidence that

inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been

attributed to it"?

Yes_________ No_________

Respiratory Morbidity in Office Workers in a Water-Damaged Building

http://oehc.uchc.edu/clinser/MOLD%20GUIDE.pdf

(Guidance for Clinicians on Recognition and Management of Health Effects Related to Mold Exposure and Moisture Indoors)

Human Health Effects Associated with Damp Indoor Environments

The committee used a uniform set of categories to summarize its conclusions regarding the association between health outcomes and exposure to indoor dampness or the presence of mold or other agents in damp indoor environments, as listed in Box ES-1. The distinctions among categories reflect the committee’s judgment of the overall strength, quality, and persuasiveness of the scientific literature evaluated. Chapter 1 details the methodologic considerations underlying the evaluation of epidemiologic evidence and details the definitions of the categories.

BOX ES-1Summary of the Categories of Evidence Used in This Report

Sufficient Evidence of a Causal Relationship

Evidence is sufficient to conclude that a causal relationship exists between the agent and the outcome. That is, the evidence fulfills the criteria for “sufficient evidence of an association†and, in addition, satisfies the following criteria: strength of association, biologic gradient, consistency of association, biologic plausibility and coherence, and temporally correct association.

Sufficient Evidence of an Association

Evidence is sufficient to conclude that there is an association. That is, an association between the agent and the outcome has been observed in studies in which chance, bias, and confounding can be ruled out with reasonable confidence.

Limited or Suggestive Evidence of an Association

Evidence is suggestive of an association between the agent and the outcome but is limited because chance, bias, and confounding cannot be ruled out with confidence.

Inadequate or Insufficient Evidence to Determine Whether an Association Exists

The available studies are of insufficient quality, consistency, or statistical power to permit a conclusion regarding the presence of an association. Alternatively, no studies exist that examine the relationship.

Regarding Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis from IOM Report

HP is a relatively rare immune-mediated condition, and only susceptible people exposed to a sensitizing antigen develop clinically significant disease. It has thus been studied with relation to specific agents rather than dampness in general. Studies reviewed by the committee indicate that there is sufficient evidence of an association between the presence of mold and bacteria in damp indoor environments and hypersensitivity pneumonitis in such people. Others are not at risk for this disease.

(Footnote: Nowhere in the IOM Report do they define "susceptible people". One would have to assume if they developed HP, then they must have been susceptible!)

Inhalation Fevers

Inhalation fever is the general name given to any one of a number of influenza-like, self-limited syndromes caused by a heterogeneous group of stimuli (Blanc, 1997). Two that have been potentially associated with damp indoor environments are briefly addressed here.

Humidifier fever is an illness that consists of a febrile reaction accompanied by respiratory tract symptoms and fatigue. It does not manifest the radiographic or laboratory abnormalities consistent with HP and it is thought to be a nonimmunologic reaction (Baur et al., 1988).

Organic dust toxic syndrome (ODTS) is a self-limiting noninfectious febrile illness that occurs after heavy organic-dust exposure by inhalation (Emanuel et al., 1975; Marx et al., 1981; Von Essen et al., 1990). Common symptoms include malaise, myalgia, headache, nonproductive cough, fever and nausea—symptoms that resemble those of acute HP. However, unlike HP, prior sensitization is not required in ODTS, serum precipitin antibodies against fungi are negative, the chest x-ray picture usually does not show infiltrates, there is no hypoxemia, there is no restriction or low CO diffusing capacity on lung-function testing. ODTS shares with HP the laboratory finding of leukocytosis with a predominance of neutrophils and a left shift during the acute phase.

I am attaching the whole WebMD article for reference:

Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold' Illness Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness By Salynn BoylesWebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MDon Friday, September 30, 2005 Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent years by people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little evidence to support the claims.Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could be identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the condition that has come to be known as "toxic mold syndrome."They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold syndrometoxic mold syndrome."We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat," Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesseslittle evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been attributed to it."Hurricane HousesAs the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposureHurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposure have taken on a new urgency.Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board, ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures will pose obvious dangers to health, Bardana says."There is no comparison between a home that has literally been underwater for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitely going to be a huge issue with these houses."10,000 LawsuitsBardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news reports of a cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp, indoor surfaces.A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million to a family who's newly constructed mansion was contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance Information Institute estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the number was growing.In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or workers' compensation claims. The researchers also identified unrecognized conditions that could explain the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome.The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches, memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint of cough were either smokers or former smokers."These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse health effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects from the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote.They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites considered by the patients to be the source of their problems was often incomplete and did not include other potential irritants that could have caused allergies and other illnesses.More Toxic Mold Study NeededThere is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen asthmaindoor molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who are susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee that examined the issue concluded last year that there is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of symptoms.The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of the CDC."The committee found very few studies that have examined whether mold or other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue, neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some people have attributed to fungal infestations of buildings," the report stated."The little evidence that is available does not support an association, but because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable data, the committee could not rule out the possibility."University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin, PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology Committee.She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research."They are not based on solid science," she says. "There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health conditions through inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly have a negative effect on health, but we can't attribute this to toxins."

One more question: What is being put out to public regarding illnesses induced by excessive mold exposure within an indoor environment, is that more beneficial to:

a. the safety of the American public; or,

b. the defense argument within a courtroom?

a._________ b.__________

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Teach the people who want to be taught and it will have a larger impact. I know that you are incredibly pro-active,so keep putting your energy into those things or you’re going to feel like you’re banging your head against a brick wall!

No offense to you , but you seem to be extremely set in your opinions; so I think it becomes redundant to keep arguing the same points (that’s what the attorneys are for!)

I’m done now.

Best Regards,

Stacey Champion

Stacey,

Are we buggin' you? Are you having cocktails with right now? Tell her and I said "Hi." I know who is. I am not arguing. I'm learning. I like to discuss with him and others who think differently. If you only talk to people who think like you do, then you don't learn anything. And neither do those who think differently. One cannot overcome an objection without first understanding the objection. Besides, I feel like I held my own in making my point. Do you think that, ? So can I be an "expert" witness, too? lol

Sharon

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you for the thoughtful post. I agree with much of what you said. Regarding your first sentence, its not there; I think people may not focus much on HP because it is a relatively rare dysfunction relative to all of the allergy and asthma, although certainly bad for the few that actually have it.

Thank you for the acknowledgment of agreement. I don't think HP is as rare as you may be inclined to believe. I know of several mold victims who got run through the allergy and asthma mill to no avail. It took them awhile, but found a doctor who finally knew how to treat it. Unfortunately for many, by that time it has progressed to the more serious symptoms indicative of Type III hypersensitivity. That's what concerns me about the upcoming ACAAI Conference of Allergists. Five days and NOT ONE speaker regarding HP. Which means many more are going to be lumped into the asthma and allergy crowd, only to be misdiagnosed and allowed to become sicker. HP is a scary one for the defense. More so than toxicity because it's been around as a legitimately understood illness from inhaling mold for quite some time.

Regarding your comment "I am of the opinion that the stakeholder industries should be doing everything they possibly can to move the science forward, asap. It would help us get this issue out of the courtrooms, save lives and save us all a ton of money. We need to Move the Science Forward, Train the Physicians and Inform the People." --- I agree. However, I don't see any push to speed up the science other than by the ones paying and others trying to be increase their exposure in the business.

I don't understand your last sentence. But, I don't see any great push to speed up the medical science at all. Clorox is a good example. They keep funding these studies by the University Allergists to only study allergy. Then these guys come out and say mold illness is allergy and Tilex can help clean up the mold that causes your allergies. From there, it gets parlayed and twisted in the courtrooms to say according to a study by Dr. Blah Blah Blah. mold only causes allergies. And doctors go to seminars of allegists that say.....ya know. By the way, go to the Tilex website and look at what Clorox really knows about what mold causes. States memory problems.

Many of the current stakeholders make money off the fact that there is not clarity. If there was clarity, a lot of people would be out of business. Kind of like the CPAs in America not exactly being the lead group (and understandably) campaigning for a simple tax code....

I agree whole heartedly with this statement. That's why I push, push, push to move the medical science forward. To many lives are awastin'. ....I think we are boring Stacey!

Sharon

[Guest guest]

He laughed and said the black mold problem is a political problem as there is no scientific evidence that airborne spores can be harmful. He did add that a healthy person should have no problem resisting the effects of mold.

This is what bugs me about these guys. This guy is plant pathologist. I seriously doubt that he keeps up on all the lastest literature regarding human fungal induced illnesses from an indoor environment. Now how is he qualified to say there is no scientific evidence that airborne spores can be harmful? Some people will believe this guy knows what he is talking about because he has some letters behind his name. How is Bardana, an allergist quailified to be commenting on toxic mold syndrome? How is Hardin, a Phd who is not even qualified to treat people and with background in communication qualified to write the ACOEM mold statement and present on mycotoxins to the allergists? Have you seen the allergists out of Berkley who wrote a psychological paper about how all this mold concern is just the fault of the internet? If one has some letters behind their names, does that mean they get to an expert in every field of mold game?

Sharon

[Guest guest]



I wonder who funded this research? The CMHC (Canadian federal housing agency) research projects at Wallaceburg Ontario (across from Detroit) showed a very large mold signal, much larger than we expected in what was really planned as a proof of concept study, if the correlation coefficients were not quite significant. They were! Moldy houses had sicker people in them.

Always follow the money. A lot of studies are funded by those who know what they want the results to be, and get them.

Yes, I have an attitude problem!

Jim H. White SSAL

Mold only dangerous when digested.

Hi All,

Read these two articles. The new theme is mold can only hurt you if you eat it. So do you all wear HasMat suits during remediation to curtail your desire to eat mold while you are working with it?

Sharon

Sick Of Mold? Maybe Not. Sept. 30, 2005(WebMD) Thousands of lawsuits have been filed inrecent years by people who say exposure to mold intheir homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medicalreview of 50 cases that ended up in court shows littleevidence to support the claims. Researchers reported that in every case, other medicalcauses could be identified to explain the illnessesbelieved to be caused by the condition that has cometo be known as "toxic mold syndrome." They concluded that no credible medical evidence hasemerged to link mold exposure to the wide range ofserious medical conditions associated with toxic moldsyndrome. "We know that mold can make people sick if they end upin the foods they eat," Oregon Health & ScienceUniversity professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr.,MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence thatinhaled environmental mold exposure can cause theserious illnesses that have been attributed to it." Hurricane Houses As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from HurricanesKatrina and Rita, health concerns regarding moldexposure have taken on a new urgency. Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structuressubmerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks arenow covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board,ceiling tiles, and other surfaces. Because of the severity of water damage, many of thesestructures will pose obvious dangers to health,Bardana says. "There is no comparison between a home that hasliterally been underwater for extended periods and thecases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitelygoing to be a huge issue with these houses." 10,000 Lawsuits Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade agofollowing news reports of a cluster of illnesses amongbabies living in Cleveland. The illnesses wereinitially blamed on inhalation exposure to a blackfungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp,indoor surfaces. A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million toa family who's newly constructed mansion wascontaminated with the mold. In 2003, the InsuranceInformation Institute estimated that 10,000mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and thenumber was growing. In their newly published study, Bardana and colleagueBarzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of peoplewho filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits orworkers' compensation claims. The researchers alsoidentified unrecognized conditions that could explainthe symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome. The most common complaints were upper and lower airwayproblems such as nasal congestion or shortness ofbreath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, andneurological problems, including dizziness, headaches,memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia. Through allergy type tests the researchers found that14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergicto their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaintof cough were either smokers or former smokers. "These people were more concerned about thepossibility of adverse health effects from moldexposure than the known adverse health effects fromthe thousands of chemicals inhaled every time acigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote. They further noted that the environmental testing onthe sites considered by the patients to be the sourceof their problems was often incomplete and did notinclude other potential irritants that could havecaused allergies and other illnesses. More Toxic Mold Study Needed There is little argument that exposure to indoor moldscan worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people whoare susceptible. But a government-sponsored committeethat examined the issue concluded last year that thereis no clear proof that mold causes these complexes ofsymptoms. The examination was conducted by The Institute ofMedicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisorygroup, under the sponsorship of the CDC. "The committee found very few studies that haveexamined whether mold or other factors associated withindoor dampness are linked to fatigue,neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problemsthat some people have attributed to fungalinfestations of buildings," the report stated. "The little evidence that is available does notsupport an association, but because of the dearth ofwell-constructed studies and reliable data, thecommittee could not rule out the possibility." University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin,PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarifythe issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the AmericanAcademy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology'sAerobiology Committee. She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of theresearch. "They are not based on solid science," she says."There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related)toxins can cause these health conditions throughinhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house cancertainly have a negative effect on health, but wecan't attribute this to toxins." SOURCES: Khalili, B. ls of Allergy, Asthma, & Immunology, September 2005; vol 95: pp 239-246. EmilJ. Bardana, Jr., MD, Oregon Health & ScienceUniversity, Portland. Abba I. Terr, MD, University ofCalifornia, San Francisco. Estelle Levetin, PhD,professor of biology, University of Tulsa; vicechairwoman, American College of Asthma, Allergy, & Immunology committee on aerobiology. Indoor MoldReport, Institute of Medicine, May 25, 2004.By Salynn BoylesReviewed by Brunilda Nazario, MD© 2005, WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.Feedback Terms of Service Privacy StatementSeptember 22, 2005 latimes.com GULF COAST BESIEGEDMold Likely to Complicate Rebuilding After KatrinaBy Rosie Mestel, Times Staff Writerhttp://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-mold22sep22,1,3901394.story?coll=la-headlines-nationThe Gulf Coast is facing a potential financial and legal morass over mold blooming inside storm-damaged buildings, according to scientists, contractors and insurance experts.Mold has grown thickly on wet walls, rugs and furniture of thousands of buildings — and the problem will worsen as flood waters recede. Restoration workers are pouring into the Gulf Coast."There's an Oklahoma land stampede down there," said Shane, a manager for Environmental Microbiology Laboratory Inc. in Chicago.Some molds cause structural problems such as dry rot, requiring the replacement of wood. The biggest problem, however, involves the widespread, but unsubstantiated, contentions that some molds can cause serious health problems."There's a real industry being created around the mold problem — lawyers who've written about it call it 'black gold.' They see it as the next great asbestos," said Dr. Dorsett , clinical professor of medicine at the University of Washington in Seattle. "It is the fear factor. You mention the word 'mold' and people are afraid."Mold is a general term for a group of thousands of different fungi, including Penicillium, original source of the antibiotic penicillin, and Stachybotrys chartarum, a black fungus with a fearsome reputation for its supposed effects on people's health. Mold spores are always in the air, but they only germinate when there is enough warmth and moisture, such as from burst water pipes, condensation, storm damage or flooding. Feeding on the cellulose in wall board, ceiling tiles and wood, they grow into long microscopic strands, spawning millions of new spores that people can inhale.Publicity about Stachybotrys has created an industry for removing "toxic black mold."In extreme cases, the presence of the mold has caused people to abandon their homes and remove the earth beneath them because of their fear of sickness. The presence of Stachybotrys has resulted in multimillion-dollar judgments against insurers and contractors.Scientists say that molds can cause some health problems. In 2004, a report from the National Academy of Sciences concluded that indoor mold can exacerbate symptoms such as upper respiratory irritation, coughing and wheezing in people with asthma.In rare cases, it can cause a flu-like immune disorder known as hypersensitivity pneumonitis.Damp environments often found with mold may also cause shortness of breath, lower respiratory illness in healthy children and the development of asthma in people who are prone to it. The report, however, found no connection between molds and a range of serious conditions, including chronic fatigue, cancer, bleeding of the lungs, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, memory loss and learning disabilities.Stachybotrys and some other molds do produce toxins, called mycotoxins, that are dangerous to animals and people if eaten.But "you can't get enough mycotoxin inside if you're breathing the spores," said Bruce Kelman, a board certified toxicologist with Veritox Inc., a toxicology consulting company. The problem facing homeowners, insurers and contractors is that there are virtually no health standards on mold decontamination and very little data on what is necessary to get spore numbers down to safe levels.Because getting rid of mold is expensive, many houses that are still structurally sound may be razed, experts predicted. The problem will be exacerbated by the fact that flood and mold damage is generally not covered by standard home insurance.

[Guest guest]

Good point, Stacey. Neither of us are teaching, learning or getting paid. So I'm done too. And for the record, a significant albeit smaller portion of my witness work has been for plaintiffs. And you're right, I am pretty set in my opinions, as are a few others in this profession! If anyone wants to know my opinion they can read the AIHA doc "Assessment, Remediation, and Post-Remediation Verification of Mold in Buildings".

I will be reading, and highly recommend to others, the new revised 2nd Edition of the "Field Guide for the Determination of Biological Contaminants in Environmental Samples". Dr. and Dr. Hung has done the late Dr. Dillon very proud with the completion of this excellent work. Goodbye for a while.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Stacey ChampionSent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:03 AMTo: iequality Subject: RE: Mold only dangerous when digested.

Sharon –

You are a consumer advocate. does defense litigation. Even though his website states:

"Toxic" Mold - Certified Industrial Hygienist - Expert Witness Services - B. Dotson, CIH, CSP, DEE provides litigation support regarding water damage and mold growth in buildings and the health effects associated with human exposure related to such growth, including the nosocomial infection issues in healthcare environments such as hospital operating rooms.

(Which I find somewhat amusing…) You guys could go in circles for years. Please trust me when I

say – from experience - that it is very wise to choose your battles or you will burn yourself out.

Teach the people who want to be taught and it will have a larger impact. I know that you are incredibly pro-active,

so keep putting your energy into those things or you’re going to feel like you’re banging your head against a

brick wall!

No offense to you , but you seem to be extremely set in your opinions; so I think it becomes redundant to

keep arguing the same points (that’s what the attorneys are for!)

I’m done now.

Best Regards,

Stacey Champion

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of snk1955@...Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:48 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Mold only dangerous when digested.

,

I do not see anywhere in the article where the very serious illness of HP is acknowledged. Can you point it out to me? What I see is the statement going out to people who do not know the difference between HP, COPD, Toxic Mold Syndrome, ABPA, CFS, etc, that says: "We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat," Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been attributed to it." What I see is the projection to people who will be cleaning up mold that they need not worry about breathing it in. It is only dangerous when eaten.

As far as hysteria, you raise an interesting point. There WILL BE hysteria after Katrina if it is not publicly acknowledged and if the physicians are not trained of the serious illnesses caused by inhaling mold. What will happen, and it happens everyday all across America, is that some people will become seriously ill after inhaling mold spores or mold toxins. They won't be able to find any medical help because as we all know, the doctors are not trained on this stuff. Most do not even acknowledge that inhaling mold within an indoor environment can cause serious illness. They are being told it is hype, hysteria, media, junk science and trial lawyers. I can't even tell you the number of very ill mold victims I know who have been treated with great distain by their physicians who think it is hype, hysteria..... Talk about insult to injury.

Some from Katrina will get very sick and their friends and families will witness it. What their friends and families will also witness is the sick person getting no help and the doctors telling them mold does not cause this. People tend to believe what they witness with their own eyes. They will understand that mold does indeed cause this. But without understanding where, when, how much, how long one must realistically be exposed to mold to become ill, they will start to freak out if they see a little mold in their shower and have a runny nose.

Ironically, the stifling of medical knowledge regarding the serious illnesses caused by mold exposure for the purposes of keeping lawsuits down, is exactly what is fueling the confusion that drives the hysteria and causes the lawsuits to continue.

Basically, much is known of illnesses that are induced by fungal exposure, whether it be eaten, physically contacted or inhaled. We need to take this information and apply it to symptoms indicative of possible mycotic disease, no matter where or how the exposure occurred. Then either rule it out or treat it.

One of the biggest problems with this issue is that the environment that is causing the problem is owned by someone. This causes the opportunity for negligent maintenance to be the root of the problem and therefore, the negligent ones'financial responsibility for the illness of others. This, of course, causes litigation over just how ill someone really is and just how negligent someone really was.

This causes attorneys and expert witnesses to present their clients' interest in the best light possible. I know you all are going to find this hard to believe, but sometimes attorneys and expert witnesses put a spin on things. And some will spin quite a bit more than others. This causes two sides to the story and perpetuates the confusion over an already complicated and young field of science.

The sad thing for everyone involved in this issue is that the contention in the courtrooms stifles and conveludes the medical understanding of what is becoming increasingly prevalent and diverse fungal illnesses. If the medical understanding was permitted to flourish and all elements of what is known of mycotic disease was allowed to be added into the equation (not just what is known about indoor mold/mycotoxins, but all mold/mycotoxins) more would be rapidly understood. If more was understood, people would not become as sick as they currently are being allowed to become. They would get early treatment and know to get away from what is making them sick. If people got early treatment and did not become as severely ill, then the damage from one's neglegance would be greatly reduced, and so would the resultant financial liability.

I am of the opinion that the stakeholder industries should be doing everything they possibly can to move the science forward, asap. It would help us get this issue out of the courtrooms, save lives and save us all a ton of money. We need to Move the Science Forward, Train the Physicians and Inform the People.

Sharon Kramer

Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold' Illness Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness By Salynn BoylesWebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MDon Friday, September 30, 2005 Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent years by people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little evidence to support the claims.Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could be identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the condition that has come to be known as "toxic mold syndrome."They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold syndrometoxic mold syndrome.Hurricane HousesAs the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposureHurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposure have taken on a new urgency.Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board, ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures will pose obvious dangers to health, Bardana says."There is no comparison between a home that has literally been underwater for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitely going to be a huge issue with these houses."10,000 LawsuitsBardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news reports of a cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp, indoor surfaces.A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million to a family who's newly constructed mansion was contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance Information Institute estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the number was growing.In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or workers' compensation claims. The researchers also identified unrecognized conditions that could explain the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome.The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches, memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint of cough were either smokers or former smokers."These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse health effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects from the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote.They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites considered by the patients to be the source of their problems was often incomplete and did not include other potential irritants that could have caused allergies and other illnesses.More Toxic Mold Study NeededThere is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen asthmaindoor molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who are susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee that examined the issue concluded last year that there is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of symptoms.The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of the CDC."The committee found very few studies that have examined whether mold or other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue, neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some people have attributed to fungal infestations of buildings," the report stated."The little evidence that is available does not support an association, but because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable data, the committee could not rule out the possibility."University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin, PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology Committee.She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research."They are not based on solid science," she says. "There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health conditions through inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly have a negative effect on health, but we can't attribute this to toxins."

[Guest guest]

Ron - As a rule, I generally discount info on websites and greatly admire

peer-reviewed research, including the papers that Dr. Shoemaker has

contributed to the literature.

But per my most recent post, I am fresh out of opinions regarding such

specifics. I will leave it to Dr. Shoemakers professional peers to evaluate

the quality of his work in context with the existing body of scientific

evidence. Any takers out there?

B. Dotson, CIH, CSP

San , CA

email: kyle@...

Re: Mold only dangerous when digested.

,

What is your assessment of the work of Dr. Shoemaker showing a

relationship between exposure to mold and impaired brain functioning

as presented on the website www.chronicneurotoxins.com ?

Ron

--

- In iequality , " Dotson " <kyle@d...> wrote:

>

> Sharon - I will be pleased to discuss and reply to your current

questions.

> As a matter of fact, I did respond to your previous ones. First, I

> acknowledged that I agreed with what he DID SAY; namely that " We

know that

> mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat, " . I

just

> wanted to let you know that I agreed with that. One can not take

anything

> for granted, when so many people seem to not believe or agree with

what is

> clearly demonstrated in current science. I know an MD in Texas that

seems to

> think mold is good for you; I am not out there in far right field

with him.

> If you read the rest of the first paragraph, you saw my answer

regarding the

> inhaled data. Now on to your current questions regarding my read on

what the

> current science actually says:

>

> I have two Yes or No questions:

>

> 1. Do you agree with the statement that " there is little evidence

that

> inhaled environmental

> mold exposure can cause the serious illness that have been

attributed

> to it " ?

> Yes____ x _____ No_________

>

> Because, they are talking about, and Bardana is responding to,

questions

> about " toxic mold syndrome " presumed to be caused by inhaled

mycotoxins. So

> while the toxic effects of mold following ingestion are well-

understood, the

> toxic effects of inhaled mold particles are not well documented,

and there

> is LITTLE EVIDENCE, and I am being liberal in checking Yes above

because

> there is essentially NO evidence that mycotoxins are capable of

causing the

> kinds of serious illnesses (non-allergy, non-asthma, non-HP) that

are being

> attributed in all of these " toxic mold syndrome lawsuits. If

someone has

> allergy, asthma, or HP, fine. But if someone has brain damage or

even

> forgetfulness, well, forget it. In fact, the findings so far are

that NO

> credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to the

wide

> range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold

syndrome. "

> especially at the levels that people are exposed to in buildings,

even

> really really stinky ones.

>

> 2. In light of Katrina and all the families (including their

children) that

> will be cleaning up mold

> within their homes and are not as educated to matter as

someone such as

> yourself, is in

> the best interest of public safety to put out the

message " there is

> little evidence that

> inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious

illnesses

> that have been

> attributed to it " ?

> Yes_________ Somewhere in between _____x____

No_________

>

> Sorry, you may feel that #2 is yes, some others may say no. Even

though I

> agree that there is little evidence of serious illnesses that were

discussed

> in the article (and therefore could logically check No), I still am

> concerned about allergy, asthma and HP (so in the spirit of

protection could

> logically check Yes). I agreed that it would be better for them to

print a

> " safety manual " story that would tell people what the real risks

are and how

> to protect themselves. But the REAL risks of mold were NOT the

topic of

> discussion of the story. The bottom line is that I don't think it

is wise

> for WebMD or anyone else to focus on the fallacy of " toxic mold

syndome "

> when there are such real risks as allergy, asthma and HP that are

very very

> real, if not as sexy. Better to warn against the real rather than

to talk

> about the lack of proof for all of the hysteria. But if people

weren't

> hysterical, they probably wouldn't be printing a story at all. So

its a bit

> of a catch 22, isn't it? For more information regarding my opinion

why the

> answer is somewhere between yes and no, see my answer #3 in my last

post.

>

>

>

>

> Respiratory <http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2005/7559/7559.html>

> Morbidity in Office Workers in a Water-Damaged Building

>

> http://oehc.uchc.edu/clinser/MOLD%20GUIDE.pdf

> (Guidance for Clinicians on Recognition and Management of Health

Effects

> Related to Mold Exposure and Moisture Indoors)

>

>

> Human Health Effects Associated with Damp Indoor Environments

>

>

> The committee used a uniform set of categories to summarize its

conclusions

> regarding the association between health outcomes and exposure to

indoor

> dampness or the presence of mold or other agents in damp indoor

> environments, as listed in Box

>

<http://www.nap.edu/books/0309091934/html/8.html#p2000aee79960008001>

ES-1.

> The distinctions among categories reflect the committee's judgment

of the

> overall strength, quality, and persuasiveness of the scientific

literature

> evaluated. Chapter

>

<http://www.nap.edu/books/0309091934/html/17.html#p2000aee79970017001>

1

> details the methodologic considerations underlying the evaluation of

> epidemiologic evidence and details the definitions of the

categories.

>

>

>

>

> BOX ES-1

> Summary of the Categories of Evidence Used in This Report

>

> Sufficient Evidence of a Causal Relationship

>

> Evidence is sufficient to conclude that a causal relationship

exists between

> the agent and the outcome. That is, the evidence fulfills the

criteria for

> " sufficient evidence of an association " and, in addition, satisfies

the

> following criteria: strength of association, biologic gradient,

consistency

> of association, biologic plausibility and coherence, and temporally

correct

> association.

>

> Sufficient Evidence of an Association

>

> Evidence is sufficient to conclude that there is an association.

That is, an

> association between the agent and the outcome has been observed in

studies

> in which chance, bias, and confounding can be ruled out with

reasonable

> confidence.

>

> Limited or Suggestive Evidence of an Association

>

> Evidence is suggestive of an association between the agent and the

outcome

> but is limited because chance, bias, and confounding cannot be

ruled out

> with confidence.

>

> Inadequate or Insufficient Evidence to Determine Whether an

Association

> Exists

>

> The available studies are of insufficient quality, consistency, or

> statistical power to permit a conclusion regarding the presence of

an

> association. Alternatively, no studies exist that examine the

relationship.

>

>

> Regarding Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis from IOM Report

>

>

> HP is a relatively rare immune-mediated condition, and only

susceptible

> people exposed to a sensitizing antigen develop clinically

significant

> disease. It has thus been studied with relation to specific agents

rather

> than dampness in general. Studies reviewed by the committee

indicate that

> there is sufficient evidence of an association between the presence

of mold

> and bacteria in damp indoor environments and hypersensitivity

pneumonitis in

> such people. Others are not at risk for this disease.

>

>

> (Footnote: Nowhere in the IOM Report do they define " susceptible

people " .

> One would have to assume if they developed HP, then they must have

been

> susceptible!)

>

>

> Inhalation Fevers

>

>

> Inhalation fever is the general name given to any one of a number of

> influenza-like, self-limited syndromes caused by a heterogeneous

group of

> stimuli (Blanc, 1997). Two that have been potentially associated

with damp

> indoor environments are briefly addressed here.

>

> Humidifier fever is an illness that consists of a febrile reaction

> accompanied by respiratory tract symptoms and fatigue. It does not

manifest

> the radiographic or laboratory abnormalities consistent with HP and

it is

> thought to be a nonimmunologic reaction (Baur et al., 1988).

>

> Organic dust toxic syndrome (ODTS) is a self-limiting noninfectious

febrile

> illness that occurs after heavy organic-dust exposure by inhalation

(Emanuel

> et al., 1975; Marx et al., 1981; Von Essen et al., 1990). Common

symptoms

> include malaise, myalgia, headache, nonproductive cough, fever and

> nausea-symptoms that resemble those of acute HP. However, unlike

HP, prior

> sensitization is not required in ODTS, serum precipitin antibodies

against

> fungi are negative, the chest x-ray picture usually does not show

> infiltrates, there is no hypoxemia, there is no restriction or low

CO

> diffusing capacity on lung-function testing. ODTS shares with HP the

> laboratory finding of leukocytosis with a predominance of

neutrophils and a

> left shift during the acute phase.

>

> I am attaching the whole WebMD article for reference:

>

> Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold' Illness

> Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness

>

> By Salynn Boyles

> WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MD

> on Friday, September 30, 2005

>

> Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent

years by

> people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made

them ill.

> Now a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little

> evidence to support the claims.

>

> Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could

be

> identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the

condition

> that has come to be known as " toxic mold syndrome. "

>

> They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to

link mold

> exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated

with

> toxic mold syndrometoxic mold syndrome.

>

> " We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods

they

> eat, " Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil

J.

> Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. " But there is little evidence that

inhaled

> environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesseslittle

evidence

> that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious

illnesses

> that have been attributed to it. "

>

> Hurricane Houses

>

> As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes Katrina and

Rita, health

> concerns regarding mold exposureHurricanes Katrina and Rita, health

concerns

> regarding mold exposure have taken on a new urgency.

>

> Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in

floodwaters

> for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood,

wall

> board, ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.

>

> Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures

will pose

> obvious dangers to health, Bardana says.

>

> " There is no comparison between a home that has literally been

underwater

> for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed, " he

says. " Mold is

> definitely going to be a huge issue with these houses. "

>

> 10,000 Lawsuits

>

> Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news

reports of

> a cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The

illnesses were

> initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as

> stachybotrys, which grows on damp, indoor surfaces.

>

> A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million to a family

who's newly

> constructed mansion was contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the

Insurance

> Information Institute estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits

were

> pending nationwide, and the number was growing.

>

> In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin

Khalili, MD,

> described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-

related

> lawsuits or workers' compensation claims. The researchers also

identified

> unrecognized conditions that could explain the symptoms being

attributed to

> toxic mold syndrome.

>

> The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems

such as

> nasal congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body

> complaints, and neurological problems, including dizziness,

headaches,

> memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.

>

> Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet

owners with

> allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those

with a

> complaint of cough were either smokers or former smokers.

>

> " These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse

health

> effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects

from the

> thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked, "

Bardana

> and Khalili wrote.

>

> They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites

considered by

> the patients to be the source of their problems was often

incomplete and did

> not include other potential irritants that could have caused

allergies and

> other illnesses.

>

> More Toxic Mold Study Needed

>

> There is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen

> asthmaindoor molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people

who are

> susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee that examined the

issue

> concluded last year that there is no clear proof that mold causes

these

> complexes of symptoms.

>

> The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a

private,

> nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of

the CDC.

>

> " The committee found very few studies that have examined whether

mold or

> other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue,

> neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some

people have

> attributed to fungal infestations of buildings, " the report stated.

>

> " The little evidence that is available does not support an

association, but

> because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable

data, the

> committee could not rule out the possibility. "

>

> University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin, PhD, agrees

that more

> research is needed to clarify the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman

of the

> American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology

Committee.

>

> She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research.

>

> " They are not based on solid science, " she says. " There is no hard

evidence

> that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health conditions

through

> inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly have a

negative

> effect on health, but we can't attribute this to toxins. "

>

> One more question: What is being put out to public regarding

illnesses

> induced by excessive mold exposure within an indoor environment, is

that

> more beneficial to:

>

> a. the safety of the American public; or,

> b. the defense argument within a courtroom?

>

> a._________ b.__________

>

> Sharon

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

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[Guest guest]

Jim - Since someone else referred to my website in a previous post, I will just additionally point out that I think enough of the quality of your work that it was one of what I consider to be 23 essential reads that I provided links to at http://www.dotsongroup.com/pages/4/index.htm. Consider it to be a thank you from an admirer for your contribution to the real science.

-----Original Message-----From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Jim H. WhiteSent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:38 PMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Mold only dangerous when digested.

I wonder who funded this research? The CMHC (Canadian federal housing agency) research projects at Wallaceburg Ontario (across from Detroit) showed a very large mold signal, much larger than we expected in what was really planned as a proof of concept study, if the correlation coefficients were not quite significant. They were! Moldy houses had sicker people in them.

Always follow the money. A lot of studies are funded by those who know what they want the results to be, and get them.

Yes, I have an attitude problem!

Jim H. White SSAL

Mold only dangerous when digested.

Hi All,

Read these two articles. The new theme is mold can only hurt you if you eat it. So do you all wear HasMat suits during remediation to curtail your desire to eat mold while you are working with it?

Sharon

Sick Of Mold? Maybe Not. Sept. 30, 2005(WebMD) Thousands of lawsuits have been filed inrecent years by people who say exposure to mold intheir homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medicalreview of 50 cases that ended up in court shows littleevidence to support the claims. Researchers reported that in every case, other medicalcauses could be identified to explain the illnessesbelieved to be caused by the condition that has cometo be known as "toxic mold syndrome." They concluded that no credible medical evidence hasemerged to link mold exposure to the wide range ofserious medical conditions associated with toxic moldsyndrome. "We know that mold can make people sick if they end upin the foods they eat," Oregon Health & ScienceUniversity professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr.,MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence thatinhaled environmental mold exposure can cause theserious illnesses that have been attributed to it." Hurricane Houses As the Gulf Coast begins to recover from HurricanesKatrina and Rita, health concerns regarding moldexposure have taken on a new urgency. Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structuressubmerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks arenow covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board,ceiling tiles, and other surfaces. Because of the severity of water damage, many of thesestructures will pose obvious dangers to health,Bardana says. "There is no comparison between a home that hasliterally been underwater for extended periods and thecases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitelygoing to be a huge issue with these houses." 10,000 Lawsuits Bardana says the lawsuits began about a decade agofollowing news reports of a cluster of illnesses amongbabies living in Cleveland. The illnesses wereinitially blamed on inhalation exposure to a blackfungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp,indoor surfaces. A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million toa family who's newly constructed mansion wascontaminated with the mold. In 2003, the InsuranceInformation Institute estimated that 10,000mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and thenumber was growing. In their newly published study, Bardana and colleagueBarzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of peoplewho filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits orworkers' compensation claims. The researchers alsoidentified unrecognized conditions that could explainthe symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome. The most common complaints were upper and lower airwayproblems such as nasal congestion or shortness ofbreath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, andneurological problems, including dizziness, headaches,memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia. Through allergy type tests the researchers found that14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergicto their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaintof cough were either smokers or former smokers. "These people were more concerned about thepossibility of adverse health effects from moldexposure than the known adverse health effects fromthe thousands of chemicals inhaled every time acigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote. They further noted that the environmental testing onthe sites considered by the patients to be the sourceof their problems was often incomplete and did notinclude other potential irritants that could havecaused allergies and other illnesses. More Toxic Mold Study Needed There is little argument that exposure to indoor moldscan worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people whoare susceptible. But a government-sponsored committeethat examined the issue concluded last year that thereis no clear proof that mold causes these complexes ofsymptoms. The examination was conducted by The Institute ofMedicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisorygroup, under the sponsorship of the CDC. "The committee found very few studies that haveexamined whether mold or other factors associated withindoor dampness are linked to fatigue,neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problemsthat some people have attributed to fungalinfestations of buildings," the report stated. "The little evidence that is available does notsupport an association, but because of the dearth ofwell-constructed studies and reliable data, thecommittee could not rule out the possibility." University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin,PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarifythe issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the AmericanAcademy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology'sAerobiology Committee. She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of theresearch. "They are not based on solid science," she says."There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related)toxins can cause these health conditions throughinhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house cancertainly have a negative effect on health, but wecan't attribute this to toxins." SOURCES: Khalili, B. ls of Allergy, Asthma, & Immunology, September 2005; vol 95: pp 239-246. EmilJ. Bardana, Jr., MD, Oregon Health & ScienceUniversity, Portland. Abba I. Terr, MD, University ofCalifornia, San Francisco. Estelle Levetin, PhD,professor of biology, University of Tulsa; vicechairwoman, American College of Asthma, Allergy, & Immunology committee on aerobiology. Indoor MoldReport, Institute of Medicine, May 25, 2004.By Salynn BoylesReviewed by Brunilda Nazario, MD© 2005, WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.Feedback Terms of Service Privacy StatementSeptember 22, 2005 latimes.com GULF COAST BESIEGEDMold Likely to Complicate Rebuilding After KatrinaBy Rosie Mestel, Times Staff Writerhttp://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-mold22sep22,1,3901394.story?coll=la-headlines-nationThe Gulf Coast is facing a potential financial and legal morass over mold blooming inside storm-damaged buildings, according to scientists, contractors and insurance experts.Mold has grown thickly on wet walls, rugs and furniture of thousands of buildings — and the problem will worsen as flood waters recede. Restoration workers are pouring into the Gulf Coast."There's an Oklahoma land stampede down there," said Shane, a manager for Environmental Microbiology Laboratory Inc. in Chicago.Some molds cause structural problems such as dry rot, requiring the replacement of wood. The biggest problem, however, involves the widespread, but unsubstantiated, contentions that some molds can cause serious health problems."There's a real industry being created around the mold problem — lawyers who've written about it call it 'black gold.' They see it as the next great asbestos," said Dr. Dorsett , clinical professor of medicine at the University of Washington in Seattle. "It is the fear factor. You mention the word 'mold' and people are afraid."Mold is a general term for a group of thousands of different fungi, including Penicillium, original source of the antibiotic penicillin, and Stachybotrys chartarum, a black fungus with a fearsome reputation for its supposed effects on people's health. Mold spores are always in the air, but they only germinate when there is enough warmth and moisture, such as from burst water pipes, condensation, storm damage or flooding. Feeding on the cellulose in wall board, ceiling tiles and wood, they grow into long microscopic strands, spawning millions of new spores that people can inhale.Publicity about Stachybotrys has created an industry for removing "toxic black mold."In extreme cases, the presence of the mold has caused people to abandon their homes and remove the earth beneath them because of their fear of sickness. The presence of Stachybotrys has resulted in multimillion-dollar judgments against insurers and contractors.Scientists say that molds can cause some health problems. In 2004, a report from the National Academy of Sciences concluded that indoor mold can exacerbate symptoms such as upper respiratory irritation, coughing and wheezing in people with asthma.In rare cases, it can cause a flu-like immune disorder known as hypersensitivity pneumonitis.Damp environments often found with mold may also cause shortness of breath, lower respiratory illness in healthy children and the development of asthma in people who are prone to it. The report, however, found no connection between molds and a range of serious conditions, including chronic fatigue, cancer, bleeding of the lungs, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, memory loss and learning disabilities.Stachybotrys and some other molds do produce toxins, called mycotoxins, that are dangerous to animals and people if eaten.But "you can't get enough mycotoxin inside if you're breathing the spores," said Bruce Kelman, a board certified toxicologist with Veritox Inc., a toxicology consulting company. The problem facing homeowners, insurers and contractors is that there are virtually no health standards on mold decontamination and very little data on what is necessary to get spore numbers down to safe levels.Because getting rid of mold is expensive, many houses that are still structurally sound may be razed, experts predicted. The problem will be exacerbated by the fact that flood and mold damage is generally not covered by standard home insurance.

[Guest guest]

The united states is the only industrialized country that does not supply health care to it's citizens. If you look at countries (ie. Canada, Finland, The UK etc...) that have a financial interest in keeping it's citizens healthy, because the government is providing health care, the governments position is that mold is unhealthy. Many of these countries have standards for exposure to mold (although they do differ greatly). Science is science, the laws of gravity do not change when you leave the united states and go to other industrialized countries, although it seems that this does not hold true for mold. If the USA provided healthcare to it's citizens, I am sure that the debate would not be "is mold exposure bad or not", the debate would be how do we best protect our citizens against mold exposure. Obviously, I am of the opinion that exposure to certain types of mold is unhealthy and that theses effects become worse with time and chronic

exposure.

Sherry

Environmental Scientist/Certified Microbial Consultant

Southern Sciences.

"kengib ." wrote:



Sharon,

Perhaps you are missing the actual elements of the controversy.

I'm feeling your two questions are meaningless unless you add the modifier "scientific" to read "there is little scientific evidence. . . ." in both questions.

This past Sunday I attended a fair where there was a USDA booth with microscopes and exhibits showing plant rust and discussing the dangers to our agriculture with such plant diseases. I suggested to the senior mycologist in charge of the booth that with today's interest in black molds and residential molds that such a subject would be of greater interest than plant rusts. He laughed and said the black mold problem is a political problem as there is no scientific evidence that airborne spores can be harmful. He did add that a healthy person should have no problem resisting the effects of mold.

As far as I am concerned the children dying several years ago in Cleveland, Ohio is good evidence mold is harmful to many people. However without an understanding of the anatomical effects of mold there will be continued controversy and opportunity for lawyers to make millions attempting to sway juries for sickened clients.

The comment by Emil that "It is not good to eat mold" unfortunately is oversimplified as the cheese and beer industries have been dependent on mold cultures since civilization began. Such comments sound silly and distract from the true problem that there are molds that are in effect poisonous as there are mushrooms that are poisonous to eat as there are mushrooms that are healthy.

Respectfully,

Ken

============================

Re: Mold only dangerous when digested.

Hi Mr. Dodson,

This is what you wrote:

"I agree with Emil Bardana. He has made a correct statement that is wellestablished in the current science. It is not good to eat mold."

Duh! Of course it is not good to eat mold. But that is not what Emil Bardana said. You are paraphrasing his comments in your response. Here is the DIRECT quote:

"We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat," Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been attributed to it."

I have two Yes or No questions:

1. Do you agree with the statement that "there is little evidence that inhaled environmental

mold exposure can cause the serious illness that have been attributed to it"?

Yes_________ No_________

2. In light of Katrina and all the families (including their children) that will be cleaning up mold

within their homes and are not as educated to matter as someone such as yourself, is in

the best interest of public safety to put out the message "there is little evidence that

inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been

attributed to it"?

Yes_________ No_________

Respiratory Morbidity in Office Workers in a Water-Damaged Building

http://oehc.uchc.edu/clinser/MOLD%20GUIDE.pdf

(Guidance for Clinicians on Recognition and Management of Health Effects Related to Mold Exposure and Moisture Indoors)

Human Health Effects Associated with Damp Indoor Environments

The committee used a uniform set of categories to summarize its conclusions regarding the association between health outcomes and exposure to indoor dampness or the presence of mold or other agents in damp indoor environments, as listed in Box ES-1. The distinctions among categories reflect the committee’s judgment of the overall strength, quality, and persuasiveness of the scientific literature evaluated. Chapter 1 details the methodologic considerations underlying the evaluation of epidemiologic evidence and details the definitions of the categories.

BOX ES-1Summary of the Categories of Evidence Used in This Report

Sufficient Evidence of a Causal Relationship

Evidence is sufficient to conclude that a causal relationship exists between the agent and the outcome. That is, the evidence fulfills the criteria for “sufficient evidence of an association†and, in addition, satisfies the following criteria: strength of association, biologic gradient, consistency of association, biologic plausibility and coherence, and temporally correct association.

Sufficient Evidence of an Association

Evidence is sufficient to conclude that there is an association. That is, an association between the agent and the outcome has been observed in studies in which chance, bias, and confounding can be ruled out with reasonable confidence.

Limited or Suggestive Evidence of an Association

Evidence is suggestive of an association between the agent and the outcome but is limited because chance, bias, and confounding cannot be ruled out with confidence.

Inadequate or Insufficient Evidence to Determine Whether an Association Exists

The available studies are of insufficient quality, consistency, or statistical power to permit a conclusion regarding the presence of an association. Alternatively, no studies exist that examine the relationship.

Regarding Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis from IOM Report

HP is a relatively rare immune-mediated condition, and only susceptible people exposed to a sensitizing antigen develop clinically significant disease. It has thus been studied with relation to specific agents rather than dampness in general. Studies reviewed by the committee indicate that there is sufficient evidence of an association between the presence of mold and bacteria in damp indoor environments and hypersensitivity pneumonitis in such people. Others are not at risk for this disease.

(Footnote: Nowhere in the IOM Report do they define "susceptible people". One would have to assume if they developed HP, then they must have been susceptible!)

Inhalation Fevers

Inhalation fever is the general name given to any one of a number of influenza-like, self-limited syndromes caused by a heterogeneous group of stimuli (Blanc, 1997). Two that have been potentially associated with damp indoor environments are briefly addressed here.

Humidifier fever is an illness that consists of a febrile reaction accompanied by respiratory tract symptoms and fatigue. It does not manifest the radiographic or laboratory abnormalities consistent with HP and it is thought to be a nonimmunologic reaction (Baur et al., 1988).

Organic dust toxic syndrome (ODTS) is a self-limiting noninfectious febrile illness that occurs after heavy organic-dust exposure by inhalation (Emanuel et al., 1975; Marx et al., 1981; Von Essen et al., 1990). Common symptoms include malaise, myalgia, headache, nonproductive cough, fever and nausea—symptoms that resemble those of acute HP. However, unlike HP, prior sensitization is not required in ODTS, serum precipitin antibodies against fungi are negative, the chest x-ray picture usually does not show infiltrates, there is no hypoxemia, there is no restriction or low CO diffusing capacity on lung-function testing. ODTS shares with HP the laboratory finding of leukocytosis with a predominance of neutrophils and a left shift during the acute phase.

I am attaching the whole WebMD article for reference:

Study Questions Reality of 'Toxic Mold' Illness Researchers Found Other Explanations for Sickness By Salynn BoylesWebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MDon Friday, September 30, 2005 Sept. 30, 2005 -- Thousands of lawsuits have been filed in recent years by people who say exposure to mold in their homes or workplaces made them ill. Now a medical review of 50 cases that ended up in court shows little evidence to support the claims.Researchers reported that in every case, other medical causes could be identified to explain the illnesses believed to be caused by the condition that has come to be known as "toxic mold syndrome."They concluded that no credible medical evidence has emerged to link mold exposure to the wide range of serious medical conditions associated with toxic mold

syndrometoxic mold syndrome."We know that mold can make people sick if they end up in the foods they eat," Oregon Health & Science University professor of medicine Emil J. Bardana Jr., MD, tells WebMD. "But there is little evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesseslittle evidence that inhaled environmental mold exposure can cause the serious illnesses that have been attributed to it."Hurricane HousesAs the Gulf Coast begins to recover from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposureHurricanes Katrina and Rita, health concerns regarding mold exposure have taken on a new urgency.Hundreds of thousands of homes and other structures submerged in floodwaters for days and even weeks are now covered in mold that feeds on wood, wall board, ceiling tiles, and other surfaces.Because of the severity of water damage, many of these structures will pose obvious dangers to health, Bardana

says."There is no comparison between a home that has literally been underwater for extended periods and the cases that we reviewed," he says. "Mold is definitely going to be a huge issue with these houses."10,000 LawsuitsBardana says the lawsuits began about a decade ago following news reports of a cluster of illnesses among babies living in Cleveland. The illnesses were initially blamed on inhalation exposure to a black fungus known as stachybotrys, which grows on damp, indoor surfaces.A few years later, a Texas jury awarded $32 million to a family who's newly constructed mansion was contaminated with the mold. In 2003, the Insurance Information Institute estimated that 10,000 mold-related lawsuits were pending nationwide, and the number was growing.In their newly published study, Bardana and colleague Barzin Khalili, MD, described the symptoms of people who filed toxic mold syndrome-related lawsuits or workers' compensation claims. The

researchers also identified unrecognized conditions that could explain the symptoms being attributed to toxic mold syndrome.The most common complaints were upper and lower airway problems such as nasal congestion or shortness of breath and cough, nonspecific body complaints, and neurological problems, including dizziness, headaches, memory loss, mood disorders, and insomnia.Through allergy type tests the researchers found that 14% of pet owners with allergic symptoms were allergic to their own pets. And 61% of those with a complaint of cough were either smokers or former smokers."These people were more concerned about the possibility of adverse health effects from mold exposure than the known adverse health effects from the thousands of chemicals inhaled every time a cigarette is smoked," Bardana and Khalili wrote.They further noted that the environmental testing on the sites considered by the patients to be the source of their problems was often

incomplete and did not include other potential irritants that could have caused allergies and other illnesses.More Toxic Mold Study NeededThere is little argument that exposure to indoor molds can worsen asthmaindoor molds can worsen asthma and allergy symptoms in people who are susceptible. But a government-sponsored committee that examined the issue concluded last year that there is no clear proof that mold causes these complexes of symptoms.The examination was conducted by The Institute of Medicine, a private, nonprofit health policy advisory group, under the sponsorship of the CDC."The committee found very few studies that have examined whether mold or other factors associated with indoor dampness are linked to fatigue, neuropsychiatric disorders, or other health problems that some people have attributed to fungal infestations of buildings," the report stated."The little evidence that is available does not support an association, but

because of the dearth of well-constructed studies and reliable data, the committee could not rule out the possibility."University of Tulsa biology professor Estelle Levetin, PhD, agrees that more research is needed to clarify the issue. Levetin is vice chairwoman of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology's Aerobiology Committee.She adds that the lawsuits have gotten ahead of the research."They are not based on solid science," she says. "There is no hard evidence that proves (mold-related) toxins can cause these health conditions through inhalation. Living in a damp, moldy house can certainly have a negative effect on health, but we can't attribute this to toxins."

One more question: What is being put out to public regarding illnesses induced by excessive mold exposure within an indoor environment, is that more beneficial to:

a. the safety of the American public; or,

b. the defense argument within a courtroom?

a._________ b.__________

Sharon

Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.