Re: Knowlege

[Guest guest]

I know there are people in this Group that have kept well through the years. ANY suggestions on Diets or Lifestyles THAT WORK would be excellent.

(Personally my physical Balance is OFF...any recomendations?) -Tom-

Well, I've told my story plenty of times already - I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about it.

You'd have to know how your balance is off to know what to do about it. What makes you think it is?

Carol

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I thought everyone had seen my link and heard all my arguments for my diet, but maybe not. Here's a link to my site:

MS Diet Recipes Supplements Philosophy by Carol Carol

[Guest guest]

I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about it. You'd have to know how your balance is off to know what to do about it.

What

I am not sick of it! You can tell it as many times as you want, you may help someone else.

Send him your links! They have helped me.

Gwen

[Guest guest]

I am not sick of it! You can tell it as many times as you want, you may help someone else.

Send him your links! They have helped me. Gwen

Thanks Gwen, I didn send the link.

Carol

[Guest guest]

I also take selenium & hemp oil supplements, and a good

multivitamin.

Are those the only supplements you take? I've been thinking maybe I'm just taking too many!

Glad to hear you're doing so well! Sounds like you're doing about what I am.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Tom wrote:

" I know there are people in this Group that have kept well through the

years. ANY suggestions on Diets or Lifestyles THAT WORK would be

excellent. (Personally my physical Balance is OFF...any recomendations?) "

I've tried quite a few diets and finally settled on the one which worked

best for me - no processed/junk foods or refined sugars, low-carb,

organic/homegrown as much as possible & everything cooked from scratch. Add

to that 12 or more glasses of water/day + *lots* of exercise, and I don't

keep or use chemicals in my home (eg. for cleansers, I use vinegar, baking

soda etc.). I also take selenium & hemp oil supplements, and a good

multivitamin.

I was dx'ed in '91 and I'm a full time livestock farmer who has no trouble

working from 5am-7pm, seven days/week. I've had two minor exacerbations -

both immediately following vaccinations - so I won't be vaccinated again.

Only one major exacerbation, a few weeks after a total hysterectomy (caused

by hormonal changes maybe?). The major attack left me with fatigue, loss of

balance/coordination & numbness. I just ignored the symptoms as much as

possible & kept exercising hard/eating well - and regained full function in

about eight weeks.

F

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and

looks like work.

Edison

[Guest guest]

Lifestyle and diet are exactly as Embry Ashton says. They are "the best bet" to explain MS. And they are within our ability to control. Since each of us is a wee bit different, not everything works for all. So we compare notes. Here's what works for me.

I'm primary progressive. I'm 57. Diagnosed 9 years ago. Holding at 3.0 EDSS. A fan of diet and attitude. It took me a year to get on the train and by that time I'd arrived at 2.0 EDSS.

There have been 4 large changes I have made that have noticeably helped and together have held things in check.

First was Dr. Swank and his "MS Diet Book". Principle idea is eat less than 20 grams fat/day - fat defined as what goes solid in fridge. (so olive oil is not fat, but oil). Most excellent and longstanding work. Mainline medical and amply published though ignored by his profession.

Second was Dr. Linus ing and megavitamins. And from there general vitamin, mineral and herb supplements. Most especially Vitamin C. I take 20 grams/day. When I started it was necessary to take 60 grams a day! I like what ing said - that vitamins are not medicine, they are food. It's just that modern food doesn't have them anymore. So we suceptibles suffer. (Some wags have noticed that MSers are just folks that evolution is weeding out since our systems have not evolved from ancient food and environment to modern ones!)

Third was getting rid of my teeth. I had not just 10 fillings, but half my mouth was amalgam and after 30 years, half of the mercury was no longer there! I read Dr. Hal Huggins book "It's all in your head" and was persuaded. Also some level headed research in Scandanavia. But I dallied for 2 years trying to get dentists to cooperate and getting overhaul estimates $6000 to $18000 because they all insisted I needed my own teeth - even remnants! Finally I started talking to denturists and found the dentists had a slanted view and were telling little lies about how bad it was not to have your own teeth. The persuasive argument was realizing I could not afford dentists in retirement in 10 years. So I had them out and had false teeth made. Only $2500 and insurance paid it. Wow. It made a remarkable difference to my energy. When the teeth came out a low level infection in my mouth and gums also went away. In consequence my vitamin C requirement dropped within days to 40 grams/day. Annoyed I waited so long. It was rather funny for a year getting used to them, but I can eat apples now, and still sing in the choir. Getting rid of the mercury in my teeth was a big deal for me.

Lastly, I self-catheterize. I found out I had a 50% constant bladder retention and in conseequence, a more or less constant low level bladder infection. (stats say most MS patients have bladder problems of some degree. If you have mobility issues, you likely will have bladder issues since both sets of nerves come out the spine bottom. Without that last infection, my Vit C dropped to the present 20 gr/day. And again I feel lot's better.

Next Step. So many people are getting positive results on the Paleo Diet (after a 2 year plus wait for results) that I am planning on going that last mile. McDougall was the first here. He cured himself, not content with stasis.

These things have made such a difference, and have given me such a confidence in managing my circumstances rather than becoming a medical victim, that I have little interest in drugs with their cost both in money and body assault. The best I might have hoped for with drugs wouldn't be worth the price in money and side effects. With doing what I can do, I have stalled the progress of the beast quite effectively for 8 years. 6 years ago we bought a duplex that would be wheel chair friendly, expecting that that was just ahead. Now I'm thinking I might not need a chair at all. I wonder if roller blades might ease my sore feet from walking though!

Living healthy is a very good thing anyway. Lots of benefits. Not only does health add to quality of life, but a healthy body is best able to withstand whatever disease we may have. There is no cure for this MS, but there is healing.

If any ask, I'll post links.

That's my bit.

Jock

[Guest guest]

so glad you are feeling so well. thanks for the info

Gwen

[Guest guest]

If any ask, I'll post links.

That's my bit.

love to see your links Gwen

[Guest guest]

wrote:

"I also take selenium & hemp oil supplements, and a good

multivitamin."

Thanks, Chris. I seem to be in the process of feeling like I need to cut back on that handful of vitamins also. One more question, what is the reasoning behind the hemp oil? I looked into it a little and found it was high in omega 6, so discarded the idea of using it. Someone had suggested it as an alternative to flax oil, but it's not the same thing at all, from what I've read. (It doesn't appear to contain any omega 3.) I'm wondering if there is some other reason for using it.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Jock,

I have a question......How did you feel after you had your teeth removed? I have had 1 quadrant done and had terrible problems afterwards. The dentist said this was because my tissues were expelling stored mercury. Yes, I went to a dentist who uses dams, etc. I never hear of anyone having problems afterwards like I did.

3 quadrants to go and I am not looking forward to them.

thanks,

kcGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

wrote:

" I also take selenium & hemp oil supplements, and a good

multivitamin. "

Carol wrote:

" Are those the only supplements you take? I've been thinking maybe I'm just

taking too many! "

Those are the supplements I take daily. I also take calcium+magnesium twice

a week because I'm post-menopausal and glucosamine about twice a week

because of osteoarthritis resulting from an auto accident. I used to take a

handful of supplements every day, but over the years I experimented with

removing one at a time for 2-3 months and also with reducing the dosage of

each supplement to find out exactly what my body seemed to need. I'll also

take other supplements depending on my diet at any given time, eg. if I get

really busy & don't eat enough fruit & veggies, I'll pop a Vitamin C too.

Like Jock, I'm also a big fan of attitude. Negative emotions depress the

immune system, so pity-parties and anger are no-no's in my life, as are the

words " but I can't... " When my husband and I bought our farm in '94, both

my GP and neuro told me that it was a bad idea as it would be too much work

for me. Just goes to show that docs don't know everything...

Another thing I should have mentioned. I don't avoid germs or viruses,

don't use products such as antibacterial soaps, don't use antibiotics and

don't filter my water, which comes from an old, shallow well. I figure that

if I keep my immune system busy dealing with the things it's supposed to

attack, it'll be too busy to munch on my myelin.

F :-)

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and

looks like work.

Edison

[Guest guest]

Lifestyle and diet are exactly as Embry Ashton says. They are "the best bet" to explain MS. And they are within our ability to control. Since each of us is a wee bit different, not everything works for all. So we compare notes. Here's what works for me.

Jock,

That sounds like a great program!!

You started in the same place I did - Dr. Swank. I agree about the lack of recognition for him!

I've also tried the mega C therapy, but could never get beyond 7-10 grams, because of bowel tolerance. I take about 5 grams now.

I got rid of all my exposed amalgams, but still have 4 crowns, which will take awhile. No dental insurance makes it difficult to even think about $2500 for dentures. I also just had my one and only root canal tooth pulled.

I am already on a paleo diet and have been for quite awhile. I also seem to be in a holding pattern, as far as progression is concerned. Although, my symptoms improved last spring pretty dramatically, after 4 years on the diet, so they are now holding at a better point than they were a couple of years ago.

I would like to see your links, you may have some I haven't seen.

Carol

[Guest guest]

kc

I felt wonderful afterwards.

Well put that in perspective. Having all teeth out in 4 shots is fairly severe. So jaw hurt. gums hurt. of course. And then on the last go having the teeth sitting on the gums as they healed wasn't exactly wonderful. But really, not more than any other dental procedure I've been through where a codiene pill or 2 were needed for a few days afterwards.

Mark Twain told a story about a dentist who extracting a wisdom tooth with roots so entangled he had to plant his feet on the patients shoulders to pull it out. When it came loose the patient's whole skeleton popped out! Gave him back to his wife in a pillow case. I kind of felt like that for a few hours!

But with each quadrant removal I rebounded. And over the year following, each day felt better. I really wish I hadn't waited.

Reading the literature I also was afraid of the extra mercury release. But I was taking 60 grams of Vitamin C a day at the time, and some sources say that vit c helps the chelation process for metal removals from the body. It could well be. You might research herbal chelation of heavy metals and consult an ND on this for helping control the temporary extra mercury.

The dentist removing my teeth didn't use dams. He was just careful to suck up the pieces. He also cut out some gum tissue that had "mercury tatoos". That's where an earlier dentist mixed the amalgam poorly and on pushing the mixture into a prepared cavity, some mercury that didn't join the chemical amalgam was squished out and into the gum tissue around the tooth - little streaky silver lines. Embedded poison!

The dentist also removed a lot of infected tissue. So bad he sent samples to the cancer biopsy lab to test! I don't know whether the mercury induced or promoted that infection as some say, or whether just the poor jaw circulation could not rid the infection of my dying teeth. In any event the removal of that infection was my biggest blessing. Looking back I consider the infection from my teeth might well have been a significant cause for my immune system deciding to eat up my nerves since it was always active.

When I asked why none of the dentists that planned out bridges and plates and tooth reconstruction plans for me saw this infection in their xrays, I was told you can't see infection in an xray. If I had had either the plates anchored on the remaining teeth (plan 1) or the mercury removal and ceramic replacement (plan 2) I would still have had that infection. Glad I went with plan 3.

Are you familiar with the Dr. Huggins book? Would you like data to get it?

Stay the course kc.

Jock

Re: Knowlege

Jock,

I have a question......How did you feel after you had your teeth removed? I have had 1 quadrant done and had terrible problems afterwards. The dentist said this was because my tissues were expelling stored mercury. Yes, I went to a dentist who uses dams, etc. I never hear of anyone having problems afterwards like I did.

3 quadrants to go and I am not looking forward to them.

thanks,

kc

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

..

[Guest guest]

Love your bit on keeping your immune system busy Chris.

My wife was a teacher and says that the sick children were always the ones

overprotected from the weather.

Jock

> Another thing I should have mentioned. I don't avoid germs or viruses,

> don't use products such as antibacterial soaps, don't use antibiotics and

> don't filter my water, which comes from an old, shallow well. I figure

that

> if I keep my immune system busy dealing with the things it's supposed to

> attack, it'll be too busy to munch on my myelin.

>

> F :-)

>

[Guest guest]

Carol

But that is the correct level for vit C. Whatever takes you to the edge of bowel tolerance. If you hit that at 5 grams then that's right for you according to ing.

And I really can confirm that is my experience. Every flu season for example, I find my amounts fluctuating as the people at work especially are sick and I am exposed to more infection.

Here is how my body speaks to me.

I have at breakfast my C this way. 3 teaspoons of powder plus 1 1/2 teaspoons of baking soda into half a glass of cold water. That fizzes and mixes and turns into Sodium Ascorbate which is not acidic. Tastes like old water.

An hour later I have a bowel movement - very soft - nearly fluid.

Now if there's flu in the air and my system picks it up and I need more C, then nothing happens that morning. And maybe not even that night. So next morning I increase it a half teaspoon.

In this way I increase or decrease as required to keep bowel behaviour routine. Often during these episodes of adjustment, my glands swell or my throat hurts - other evidence of the flu.

But I haven't had the flu or a cold for years.

And I sure won't take another flu shot. 2 years ago I did and got the flue and afterwards got a limp and sore feet.

I buy my C wholesale for $116 for 10 kilos. Pretty cheap.

And I would think Carol, that the crown would inhibit any progression of the mercury from the amalgam underneath, and not to worry.

Your experience is one of the reasons I want to commit to the paleo program.

I'll work up gathering my links into some order then.

Jock

I've also tried the mega C therapy, but could never get beyond 7-10 grams, because of bowel tolerance. I take about 5 grams now. I got rid of all my exposed amalgams, but still have 4 crowns, which will take awhile. No dental insurance makes it difficult to even think about $2500 for dentures. I also just had my one and only root canal tooth pulled. I am already on a paleo diet and have been for quite awhile. I also seem to be in a holding pattern, as far as progression is concerned. Although, my symptoms improved last spring pretty dramatically, after 4 years on the diet, so they are now holding at a better point than they were a couple of years ago. I would like to see your links, you may have some I haven't seen. Carol

..

[Guest guest]

I don't know if this is the proper way to add a message - please advise. I don't remember how to get to the original page!

I'm currently a 6.0 on the disability scale, but I don't want copaxone. I'm very interested in Dr. McDougall's plan (rightfoods.com), and what he says about MS, its cause and prevention of deterioration. Any ideas/comments?

Re: Knowlege

Lifestyle and diet are exactly as Embry Ashton says. They are "the best bet" to explain MS. And they are within our ability to control. Since each of us is a wee bit different, not everything works for all. So we compare notes. Here's what works for me.

I'm primary progressive. I'm 57. Diagnosed 9 years ago. Holding at 3.0 EDSS. A fan of diet and attitude. It took me a year to get on the train and by that time I'd arrived at 2.0 EDSS.

There have been 4 large changes I have made that have noticeably helped and together have held things in check.

First was Dr. Swank and his "MS Diet Book". Principle idea is eat less than 20 grams fat/day - fat defined as what goes solid in fridge. (so olive oil is not fat, but oil). Most excellent and longstanding work. Mainline medical and amply published though ignored by his profession.

Second was Dr. Linus ing and megavitamins. And from there general vitamin, mineral and herb supplements. Most especially Vitamin C. I take 20 grams/day. When I started it was necessary to take 60 grams a day! I like what ing said - that vitamins are not medicine, they are food. It's just that modern food doesn't have them anymore. So we suceptibles suffer. (Some wags have noticed that MSers are just folks that evolution is weeding out since our systems have not evolved from ancient food and environment to modern ones!)

Third was getting rid of my teeth. I had not just 10 fillings, but half my mouth was amalgam and after 30 years, half of the mercury was no longer there! I read Dr. Hal Huggins book "It's all in your head" and was persuaded. Also some level headed research in Scandanavia. But I dallied for 2 years trying to get dentists to cooperate and getting overhaul estimates $6000 to $18000 because they all insisted I needed my own teeth - even remnants! Finally I started talking to denturists and found the dentists had a slanted view and were telling little lies about how bad it was not to have your own teeth. The persuasive argument was realizing I could not afford dentists in retirement in 10 years. So I had them out and had false teeth made. Only $2500 and insurance paid it. Wow. It made a remarkable difference to my energy. When the teeth came out a low level infection in my mouth and gums also went away. In consequence my vitamin C requirement dropped within days to 40 grams/day. Annoyed I waited so long. It was rather funny for a year getting used to them, but I can eat apples now, and still sing in the choir. Getting rid of the mercury in my teeth was a big deal for me.

Lastly, I self-catheterize. I found out I had a 50% constant bladder retention and in conseequence, a more or less constant low level bladder infection. (stats say most MS patients have bladder problems of some degree. If you have mobility issues, you likely will have bladder issues since both sets of nerves come out the spine bottom. Without that last infection, my Vit C dropped to the present 20 gr/day. And again I feel lot's better.

Next Step. So many people are getting positive results on the Paleo Diet (after a 2 year plus wait for results) that I am planning on going that last mile. McDougall was the first here. He cured himself, not content with stasis.

These things have made such a difference, and have given me such a confidence in managing my circumstances rather than becoming a medical victim, that I have little interest in drugs with their cost both in money and body assault. The best I might have hoped for with drugs wouldn't be worth the price in money and side effects. With doing what I can do, I have stalled the progress of the beast quite effectively for 8 years. 6 years ago we bought a duplex that would be wheel chair friendly, expecting that that was just ahead. Now I'm thinking I might not need a chair at all. I wonder if roller blades might ease my sore feet from walking though!

Living healthy is a very good thing anyway. Lots of benefits. Not only does health add to quality of life, but a healthy body is best able to withstand whatever disease we may have. There is no cure for this MS, but there is healing.

If any ask, I'll post links.

That's my bit.

Jock

.

[Guest guest]

Another question: I'm going through the double-vision mess (sick of it). Is there any alternative to the black eyepatch? Does it weaken the eye that's covered? (I try to alternate, but have one eye that's stronger already, so I tend to favor it.)

Re: Knowlege

Lifestyle and diet are exactly as Embry Ashton says. They are "the best bet" to explain MS. And they are within our ability to control. Since each of us is a wee bit different, not everything works for all. So we compare notes. Here's what works for me.

I'm primary progressive. I'm 57. Diagnosed 9 years ago. Holding at 3.0 EDSS. A fan of diet and attitude. It took me a year to get on the train and by that time I'd arrived at 2.0 EDSS.

There have been 4 large changes I have made that have noticeably helped and together have held things in check.

First was Dr. Swank and his "MS Diet Book". Principle idea is eat less than 20 grams fat/day - fat defined as what goes solid in fridge. (so olive oil is not fat, but oil). Most excellent and longstanding work. Mainline medical and amply published though ignored by his profession.

Second was Dr. Linus ing and megavitamins. And from there general vitamin, mineral and herb supplements. Most especially Vitamin C. I take 20 grams/day. When I started it was necessary to take 60 grams a day! I like what ing said - that vitamins are not medicine, they are food. It's just that modern food doesn't have them anymore. So we suceptibles suffer. (Some wags have noticed that MSers are just folks that evolution is weeding out since our systems have not evolved from ancient food and environment to modern ones!)

Third was getting rid of my teeth. I had not just 10 fillings, but half my mouth was amalgam and after 30 years, half of the mercury was no longer there! I read Dr. Hal Huggins book "It's all in your head" and was persuaded. Also some level headed research in Scandanavia. But I dallied for 2 years trying to get dentists to cooperate and getting overhaul estimates $6000 to $18000 because they all insisted I needed my own teeth - even remnants! Finally I started talking to denturists and found the dentists had a slanted view and were telling little lies about how bad it was not to have your own teeth. The persuasive argument was realizing I could not afford dentists in retirement in 10 years. So I had them out and had false teeth made. Only $2500 and insurance paid it. Wow. It made a remarkable difference to my energy. When the teeth came out a low level infection in my mouth and gums also went away. In consequence my vitamin C requirement dropped within days to 40 grams/day. Annoyed I waited so long. It was rather funny for a year getting used to them, but I can eat apples now, and still sing in the choir. Getting rid of the mercury in my teeth was a big deal for me.

Lastly, I self-catheterize. I found out I had a 50% constant bladder retention and in conseequence, a more or less constant low level bladder infection. (stats say most MS patients have bladder problems of some degree. If you have mobility issues, you likely will have bladder issues since both sets of nerves come out the spine bottom. Without that last infection, my Vit C dropped to the present 20 gr/day. And again I feel lot's better.

Next Step. So many people are getting positive results on the Paleo Diet (after a 2 year plus wait for results) that I am planning on going that last mile. McDougall was the first here. He cured himself, not content with stasis.

These things have made such a difference, and have given me such a confidence in managing my circumstances rather than becoming a medical victim, that I have little interest in drugs with their cost both in money and body assault. The best I might have hoped for with drugs wouldn't be worth the price in money and side effects. With doing what I can do, I have stalled the progress of the beast quite effectively for 8 years. 6 years ago we bought a duplex that would be wheel chair friendly, expecting that that was just ahead. Now I'm thinking I might not need a chair at all. I wonder if roller blades might ease my sore feet from walking though!

Living healthy is a very good thing anyway. Lots of benefits. Not only does health add to quality of life, but a healthy body is best able to withstand whatever disease we may have. There is no cure for this MS, but there is healing.

If any ask, I'll post links.

That's my bit.

Jock

.

[Guest guest]

Jock McTavish wrote:

Carol But

that is the correct level for vit C. Whatever takes you to the edge of

bowel tolerance. If you hit that at 5 grams then that's right for you according

to ing. And

I really can confirm that is my experience. Every flu season for example,

I find my amounts fluctuating as the people at work especially are sick

and I am exposed to more infection. Here

is how my body speaks to me. I

have at breakfast my C this way. 3 teaspoons of powder plus 1 1/2 teaspoons

of baking soda into half a glass of cold water. That fizzes and mixes and

turns into Sodium Ascorbate which is not acidic. Tastes like old water.An

hour later I have a bowel movement - very soft - nearly fluid. Now

if there's flu in the air and my system picks it up and I need more C,

then nothing happens that morning. And maybe not even that night. So next

morning I increase it a half teaspoon. In

this way I increase or decrease as required to keep bowel behaviour routine.

Often during these episodes of adjustment, my glands swell or my throat

hurts - other evidence of the flu. But

I haven't had the flu or a cold for years. And

I sure won't take another flu shot. 2 years ago I did and got the flue

and afterwards got a limp and sore feet. I

buy my C wholesale for $116 for 10 kilos. Pretty cheap. And

I would think Carol, that the crown would inhibit any progression of the

mercury from the amalgam underneath, and not to worry. Your

experience is one of the reasons I want to commit to the paleo program. I'll

work up gathering my links into some order then. Jock

Jock,

Did the idea of adding

baking soda to Vitamin C come from Linus ing?

Lillian

I've

also tried the mega C therapy, but could never get beyond 7-10 grams,

because

of bowel tolerance. I take about 5 grams now.

I got

rid of all my exposed amalgams, but still have 4 crowns, which will

take

awhile. No dental insurance makes it difficult to even think about

$2500

for dentures. I also just had my one and only root canal tooth pulled.

I am

already on a paleo diet and have been for quite awhile. I also seem

to

be in

a holding pattern, as far as progression is concerned. Although,

my

symptoms

improved last spring pretty dramatically, after 4 years on the diet,

so they

are now holding at a better point than they were a couple of years

ago.

I would

like to see your links, you may have some I haven't seen.

Carol

..

[Guest guest]

Carol

But that is the correct level for vit C. Whatever takes you to the edge of bowel tolerance. If you hit that at 5 grams then that's right for you according to ing.

And I really can confirm that is my experience. Every flu season for example, I find my amounts fluctuating as the people at work especially are sick and I am exposed to more infection.

Here is how my body speaks to me.

I have at breakfast my C this way. 3 teaspoons of powder plus 1 1/2 teaspoons of baking soda into half a glass of cold water. That fizzes and mixes and turns into Sodium Ascorbate which is not acidic. Tastes like old water.

An hour later I have a bowel movement - very soft - nearly fluid.

Now if there's flu in the air and my system picks it up and I need more C, then nothing happens that morning. And maybe not even that night. So next morning I increase it a half teaspoon.

In this way I increase or decrease as required to keep bowel behaviour routine. Often during these episodes of adjustment, my glands swell or my throat hurts - other evidence of the flu.

But I haven't had the flu or a cold for years.

And I sure won't take another flu shot. 2 years ago I did and got the flue and afterwards got a limp and sore feet.

I buy my C wholesale for $116 for 10 kilos. Pretty cheap.

And I would think Carol, that the crown would inhibit any progression of the mercury from the amalgam underneath, and not to worry.

Your experience is one of the reasons I want to commit to the paleo program.

I'll work up gathering my links into some order then.

Jock

Jock,

The problem is that I had hives and was trying to get rid of them with the recommended 15-20 grams of C. I didn't get rid of the hives, so I don't think I could get enough C down. I didn't do it the way you do, though. I took about 2 grams every hour.

How many grams per teaspoon of powder is yours? Mine is 1740 milligrams per 1/2 tsp., and I know they are all a little different. 3 tespoons of mine would be a whole heck of a lot to take all at once - like about 10 grams!

They don't advise taking that much at once. I don't think my stomach could handle it. I take Magnesium ascorbate. What kind do you take? I've only seem calcium ascorbate, magnesium ascorbate, sodium ascorbate and powdered ester C.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Jock:

Could you please explain this more for me:

An hour later I have a bowel movement - very soft - nearly fluid.

Thanks

Re: Knowlege

Carol

But that is the correct level for vit C. Whatever takes you to the edge of bowel tolerance. If you hit that at 5 grams then that's right for you according to ing.

And I really can confirm that is my experience. Every flu season for example, I find my amounts fluctuating as the people at work especially are sick and I am exposed to more infection.

Here is how my body speaks to me.

I have at breakfast my C this way. 3 teaspoons of powder plus 1 1/2 teaspoons of baking soda into half a glass of cold water. That fizzes and mixes and turns into Sodium Ascorbate which is not acidic. Tastes like old water.

An hour later I have a bowel movement - very soft - nearly fluid.

Now if there's flu in the air and my system picks it up and I need more C, then nothing happens that morning. And maybe not even that night. So next morning I increase it a half teaspoon.

In this way I increase or decrease as required to keep bowel behaviour routine. Often during these episodes of adjustment, my glands swell or my throat hurts - other evidence of the flu.

But I haven't had the flu or a cold for years.

And I sure won't take another flu shot. 2 years ago I did and got the flue and afterwards got a limp and sore feet.

I buy my C wholesale for $116 for 10 kilos. Pretty cheap.

And I would think Carol, that the crown would inhibit any progression of the mercury from the amalgam underneath, and not to worry.

Your experience is one of the reasons I want to commit to the paleo program.

I'll work up gathering my links into some order then.

Jock

I've also tried the mega C therapy, but could never get beyond 7-10 grams, because of bowel tolerance. I take about 5 grams now. I got rid of all my exposed amalgams, but still have 4 crowns, which will take awhile. No dental insurance makes it difficult to even think about $2500 for dentures. I also just had my one and only root canal tooth pulled. I am already on a paleo diet and have been for quite awhile. I also seem to be in a holding pattern, as far as progression is concerned. Although, my symptoms improved last spring pretty dramatically, after 4 years on the diet, so they are now holding at a better point than they were a couple of years ago. I would like to see your links, you may have some I haven't seen. Carol

..

[Guest guest]

Jock,

Maybe I DO just have a low tolerance, because I need less. I never took megadoses of C until a few months ago. I was lucky to get 500 mg a day before that. However, I haven't had a cold in 8 years, and only 3 or 4 colds in my entire life before that. I haven't had the flu in 28 years. (I'm 56 by the way.)

I didn't realize that baking soda would buffer the C. Maybe I'll try it that way. I liked the idea of the magnesium ascorbate, because magnesium is the only vitamins I'm aware that I tend to be deficient in. However there are better ways to get magnesium.

Carol

Carol.

No experience with hives at all.

Ascorbic Acid powder with no fillers is 3 to 4 grams per teaspoon. I figured this out by dumping out some jars of it and counting. It depends how packed the powder is. Kind of like flour - it can bulk out a bit loosely or settle down some.

Initially I took Ascorbic Acid tablets, not the neutralized Ascorbic Radical as you do. As usual we all have different tolerances. The various compounds you list are all simply salts, and so you'll get the ascorbate radical without a low ph. I just do it cheaper. By mixing the acid with baking soda 2:1 it neutralizes into a sodium ascorbate solution. Another advantage, the chemical reaction is rather active and so it nicely dissolves completely and you don't have to stir, mix etc the other usual powders into your orange juice or whatever.

I found that if I took it through the day I ended up taking more, so I just take in at breakfast. However, during the winter cold season, I keep a few orange flavoured 500 mg tablets in my pocket. And if my co-workers have colds/flus I will take 1 every couple of hours during the day. I also do a Fisherman's Friend Zinc lozenge a few times a day. Zinc in the throat is anti-bacterial and very helpful. Last two winters, I think I'm the only person among 100 where a work that didn't get a cold or flu! Again this is ing's strategy. He used to get a bit annoyed at people who said there was no cure for the common cold. There is. But only with megadoses. Even if someone catches a cold - large C will shorten the length of time you're sick. It will also clear the nose and sinus and ease the throat within about an hour.

It's sure interesting that when we're young and healthy and don't pay attention to food, let alone think to eat vitamins, how things change later! And with older weaker bodies, how rejuvenating it is to learn about and experience proper nutrition and use of supplements. In some ways I'm better of in my illness, than when I was well. Strange.

Jock

[Guest guest]

Not quite. ing does talk of when large doses are given in hospital - like 100 or more grams a day it is given intravenously as Sodium Ascorbate. Later saw the baking soda idea in some vitamin book and connected back to ing then. Of course the chemistry is basic. And a LOT cheaper than buying other less acidic radicals of ascorbate sometimes called "esterized".

There are some annoying aspects of mega C if you take the Ascorbic Acid - mouth cankers and flatulence, and I suspect you might be challenging your body ph too much with that much acid. Neutralizing the acid still preserves the ascorbic radical for use.

Vitamin C powder is used commercially in baking bread and other food preparation since it prevents oxidation, so is available in bulk without any fillers.

----- Original Message -----

From: Lillian Hanke

Jock, Did the idea of adding baking soda to Vitamin C come from Linus ing? Lillian

[Guest guest]

Sure. Though its a bit on an indelicate subject hey?

The thing about vitamin C when you take large amounts is politely called bowel intolerance. It's what happens when cherry season arrives and you pig out on cherries. (or other fresh fruits).

Some folks say you get diarrhea. Not quite. That's rather a long standing problem lasting days perhaps. With vit C what happens is through the bowel generally the stool seems to soften and thin out. The more you take the thinner, and the faster it happens. Then its gone.

My good wife is presently on a weightwatchers diet. A few months ago just a while into the change she got very sick and went to the doctor where an Xray showed she had plugged up solid. She was told to take an enema. Well I said why not try vit C - for one thing its a lot easier, a lot less messy. She does not take megadoses so I only prepared 6 grams for her. And an hour later and for about an hour, she loosened right up and lost 10 pounds!

ing says everyones need for vitamins and supplements is unique and you have to find out by long trial what your body might need. The trick with C is staying on the safe side of bowel tolerance.

Another indelicate matter associated. I had (have) hemmoroids. They are zero bother since I have been on C partly I think because C is so good for many things other than just infection fighting and partly because I'm not passing rocks.

I can hardly believe what we're talking about!

Hope that cleared it up.

Re: Knowlege

Carol

But that is the correct level for vit C. Whatever takes you to the edge of bowel tolerance. If you hit that at 5 grams then that's right for you according to ing.

And I really can confirm that is my experience. Every flu season for example, I find my amounts fluctuating as the people at work especially are sick and I am exposed to more infection.

Here is how my body speaks to me.

I have at breakfast my C this way. 3 teaspoons of powder plus 1 1/2 teaspoons of baking soda into half a glass of cold water. That fizzes and mixes and turns into Sodium Ascorbate which is not acidic. Tastes like old water.

An hour later I have a bowel movement - very soft - nearly fluid.

Now if there's flu in the air and my system picks it up and I need more C, then nothing happens that morning. And maybe not even that night. So next morning I increase it a half teaspoon.

In this way I increase or decrease as required to keep bowel behaviour routine. Often during these episodes of adjustment, my glands swell or my throat hurts - other evidence of the flu.

But I haven't had the flu or a cold for years.

And I sure won't take another flu shot. 2 years ago I did and got the flue and afterwards got a limp and sore feet.

I buy my C wholesale for $116 for 10 kilos. Pretty cheap.

And I would think Carol, that the crown would inhibit any progression of the mercury from the amalgam underneath, and not to worry.

Your experience is one of the reasons I want to commit to the paleo program.

I'll work up gathering my links into some order then.

Jock

I've also tried the mega C therapy, but could never get beyond 7-10 grams, because of bowel tolerance. I take about 5 grams now. I got rid of all my exposed amalgams, but still have 4 crowns, which will take awhile. No dental insurance makes it difficult to even think about $2500 for dentures. I also just had my one and only root canal tooth pulled. I am already on a paleo diet and have been for quite awhile. I also seem to be in a holding pattern, as far as progression is concerned. Although, my symptoms improved last spring pretty dramatically, after 4 years on the diet, so they are now holding at a better point than they were a couple of years ago. I would like to see your links, you may have some I haven't seen. Carol

..

[Guest guest]

Carol.

No experience with hives at all.

Ascorbic Acid powder with no fillers is 3 to 4 grams per teaspoon. I figured this out by dumping out some jars of it and counting. It depends how packed the powder is. Kind of like flour - it can bulk out a bit loosely or settle down some.

Initially I took Ascorbic Acid tablets, not the neutralized Ascorbic Radical as you do. As usual we all have different tolerances. The various compounds you list are all simply salts, and so you'll get the ascorbate radical without a low ph. I just do it cheaper. By mixing the acid with baking soda 2:1 it neutralizes into a sodium ascorbate solution. Another advantage, the chemical reaction is rather active and so it nicely dissolves completely and you don't have to stir, mix etc the other usual powders into your orange juice or whatever.

I found that if I took it through the day I ended up taking more, so I just take in at breakfast. However, during the winter cold season, I keep a few orange flavoured 500 mg tablets in my pocket. And if my co-workers have colds/flus I will take 1 every couple of hours during the day. I also do a Fisherman's Friend Zinc lozenge a few times a day. Zinc in the throat is anti-bacterial and very helpful. Last two winters, I think I'm the only person among 100 where a work that didn't get a cold or flu! Again this is ing's strategy. He used to get a bit annoyed at people who said there was no cure for the common cold. There is. But only with megadoses. Even if someone catches a cold - large C will shorten the length of time you're sick. It will also clear the nose and sinus and ease the throat within about an hour.

It's sure interesting that when we're young and healthy and don't pay attention to food, let alone think to eat vitamins, how things change later! And with older weaker bodies, how rejuvenating it is to learn about and experience proper nutrition and use of supplements. In some ways I'm better of in my illness, than when I was well. Strange.

Jock

----- Original Message -----

From: Cah819@... Jock, The problem is that I had hives and was trying to get rid of them with the recommended 15-20 grams of C. I didn't get rid of the hives, so I don't think I could get enough C down. I didn't do it the way you do, though. I took about 2 grams every hour. How many grams per teaspoon of powder is yours? Mine is 1740 milligrams per 1/2 tsp., and I know they are all a little different. 3 tespoons of mine would be a whole heck of a lot to take all at once - like about 10 grams! They don't advise taking that much at once. I don't think my stomach could handle it. I take Magnesium ascorbate. What kind do you take? I've only seem calcium ascorbate, magnesium ascorbate, sodium ascorbate and powdered ester C. Carol