Re: Digest Number 284

October 5, 2000

Hi Carol,

Please send me that artical. If you have anything on the interferons

suppressng our own I love to read that.Where did you find it ?

Kaye

October 5, 2000

In a message dated 10/5/00 6:03:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayeelder@... writes:

<<

<tt>

Hi Carol,

Please send me that artical. If you have anything on the interferons

suppressng our own I love to read that.Where did you find it ?

Kaye

</tt> >>

Kaye,

Here's the article with the info I was talking about about interferon.

I'll send the other article in another email.

Carol

Beta-interferon Drugs

Currently three different, but very closely related, drugs which consist of

beta-interferon, a protein (cytokine) secreted by immune cells, are available

for MS therapy (Betaseron, Avonex, Rebif). Clinical trials have demonstrated

that these drugs reduce the number of exacerbations and lesion forming

activity and thus are beneficial for treating MS. A number of immediate side

effects (flu-like symptoms, site reactions) are often associated with these

drugs but in most cases are not intolerable or dangerous. Depression can be a

troublesome side effect and notably 3% of the study group on Betaseron

attempted or committed suicide whereas no one in the placebo group attempted

or committed suicide. One major concern in the use of Betaseron is that up to

40% of those taking it for up to 3 years develop neutralizing antibodies to

the injected beta-interferon ( and Noseworthy, 1996). The immediate

result of this is that the drug no longer will have any beneficial effect. Of

more concern is the possibility that the produced antibodies will cross-react

with and neutralize the individual's natural beta-interferon. If this happens

the individual's immune system will be severely compromised with likely

catastrophic results. There have been no confirmed reports of such disastrous

cross reactions having occurred. Thus the decision to take these drugs is a

bit of a gamble and I suggest that the pros and cons be thoroughly considered

before deciding to accept such drug therapy.

October 5, 2000

Kaye,

Here's the one on Copaxone.

Carol

> Longest Study of Multiple Sclerosis Drug Shows That Benefits Continue For

Six

> Years

>

> BALTIMORE, Aug. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Results of a six-year study show that

> sustained use of the drug Copaxone significantly reduces the relapse rate

and

> also delays disability in people with the relapsing-remitting form of

> multiple sclerosis (MS). The study, which is published in the August issue

> of Multiple Sclerosis, is the longest evaluation so far of a licensed MS

> therapy. The study is scheduled to continue until mid-2002, when

> participants will

> have been evaluated for 10 years.

>

> Of the 101 patients receiving daily injections of Copaxone throughout the

> past six years, 77 have had three or fewer relapses, and 26 have not had any

> relapses. Study participants also experienced a steady decline in the

> relapse rate, so that on average, they were experiencing one relapse every

> four to five years, compared to two medically documented relapses in the two

> years prior to taking the medication and being part of the study. That

> represents a 72 percent reduction in the annual relapse rate.

>

> " The findings suggest that not only is Copaxone well-tolerated, but that the

> longer a patient takes the drug, the better it works, " said ,

> M.D., professor and chairman of neurology at the University of land

> School of Medicine in Baltimore and principal investigator of the

> multi-center trial.

>

> MS affects approximately 350,000 people in the U.S. About 60 percent of all

> MS patients have the relapsing-remitting form of the disease, which is

> characterized by relapses, also known as attacks. During those attacks, a

> person has symptoms that include numbness, blurred vision, difficulty

> walking, fatigue, and pain. Those symptoms are usually temporary and are

> followed by periods of remission, in which the person feels no symptoms.

>

> " Over time, people with relapsing-remitting MS experience fewer relapses,

> even if they are not taking medication. But they go on to have increasing

> permanent disability, " said Dr. . " This study showed that there was a

> beneficial effect of treatment with Copaxone on neurological disability,

> which continued over six years when patients were regularly evaluated by

> their examining neurologist, " added Dr. .

>

> Results of the study are important to people like 44-year-old Sue Rebstock

> of Baltimore, who has been living with MS since 1990 and is a study

> participant.

>

> " In 1993, when I came home from work, I was too exhausted to cook or take my

> daughters to outside activities, such as cheerleading practice, " said

> Rebstock. She also remembers experiencing another common effect of MS --

> blurred vision.

>

> During her first month of taking Copaxone, however, Rebstock had more

> energy. Over the course of treatment, her overall condition has improved.

> She is not bothered by blurred vision and she even has the energy to take

> aerobic classes again.

>

> Rebstock was diagnosed with MS after her optometrist referred her to a

> neurologist for complaints of blurred vision. She was discouraged to learn

> the expected course of the disease, which is that on average, she could

> expect to have some sort of permanent disability within 10 years of

> diagnosis. Within 15 years, half of the people living with MS require some

> sort of walking aid. " My biggest fear was that MS would make me

> incapacitated and a burden

> to my family, " she says.

>

> An important finding in the study was that Copaxone could be taken daily for

> years and be well tolerated, according to Dr. . " This is good news

> because managing relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis requires long-term

> drug therapy. Patients' willingness to make injections of Copaxone a part of

> their daily routines is an important measure of the tolerability, safety,

and

> personal benefit of this treatment. "

>

> Dr. also directs the land Center for Multiple Sclerosis at the

> University of land Medical Center, which is taking part in an

> international, multi-center study to evaluate the oral use of Copaxone. The

> trial has just gotten underway and will last for 13 months. The goal is to

> assess the effectiveness of an oral form of the drug compared to a placebo.

>

> Multiple Sclerosis is a peer-reviewed, bi-monthly scientific journal for

> clinicians who treat MS patients, and researchers in all aspects of the

> biology and pathology of the disease.

>

> The land Center for Multiple Sclerosis is committed to providing the

> highest level of diagnosis and long-term care for individuals with MS. The

> Center works closely with patients, families, and primary care physicians to

> develop treatment plans that help patients manage their conditions

> effectively and lead active, productive lives. The Center is recognized as a

> world leader in innovative research programs with the goal of finding

> effective

> therapies and eventually curing or preventing MS.

>

> SOURCE University of land

<< Hi Carol,

Please send me that artical. If you have anything on the interferons

suppressng our own I love to read that.Where did you find it ?

Kaye >>

October 5, 2000

In a message dated 10/5/00 6:03:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayeelder@... writes:

<<

<tt>

Hi Carol,

Please send me that artical. If you have anything on the interferons

suppressng our own I love to read that.Where did you find it ?

>>

Kaye,

I think I forgot to tell you where the article about the interferons came

from. It's at Ashton Embry's site. Don't know if you've heard of him, but

he was one of the first ones I read on natural healing for MS. He has a

great site. Here's a link:

<A HREF= " http://www.direct-ms.org/ " >The Cause of Multiple Sclerosis - Home

of the Registered Charity: DIRECT-MS</A>

Carol

October 5, 2000

Subi,

Thanks I think there is a better way too.I have done just about everything.

As I chelate and strengthen the adrenals I am getting better! I haven't been

able to say that ever before.

I'd like to hear about the auvedic. i do accupuncture but don't have any

experience with what you are doing.

What symptoms do you have? Or are you in remission with no symptoms. O -to

be there!

Kaye

October 5, 2000

Dear Lillian:

Thank you so much for the article. I am so glad to find this group. I'm

beginning to feel that maybe I am not alone in my thinking about this

disease. and that is so nice.

So, there is a library and you are the librarian. How do I get there?

Thank you,

Kaye

October 5, 2000

In a message dated 10/5/00 5:10:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cah819@...

writes:

> I avoid interferons, because of a reference I read that said there was some

> fear of the body shutting down production of its own interferon permanently.

GEES Carol,

THats what scares the ---out of me. If you find a reference to that again I

like to have it. I have not read anything like that but that is my gut fear.

Just like the steroids.I ahve not found any doctor who will give an opinion

on the intrerferons. Except for the neuros who just say take it . Even

alternative ones really don't know what it does to us really. Just shrug

their shoulders. I am the warrior. IF I have the facts i give it to them. At

least some respected persons writing on it would support my uneducated

medical opinion.

Kaye

October 5, 2000

Thanks Carol,

Kaye

October 5, 2000

In a message dated 10/5/00 9:58:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayeelder@... writes:

<< Cah819@...

writes:

> I avoid interferons, because of a reference I read that said there was

some

> fear of the body shutting down production of its own interferon

permanently.

GEES Carol,

THats what scares the ---out of me. If you find a reference to that again I

like to have it. I have not read anything like that but that is my gut fear.

Just like the steroids.I ahve not found any doctor who will give an opinion

on the intrerferons. Except for the neuros who just say take it . Even

alternative ones really don't know what it does to us really. Just shrug

their shoulders. I am the warrior. IF I have the facts i give it to them. At

least some respected persons writing on it would support my uneducated

medical opinion.

Kaye

</tt> >>

Kaye,

I just sent the two articles a while ago. If you didn't get them, I'll

re-send tomorrow.

Carol

October 6, 2000

kaye,

>Or are you in remission with no symptoms. O -to

>be there!

yes i'm here unless i fall and break a bone.

then i get relapse.

look at my web site about ayurveda.

http://198.64.33.30/ayurvedic_ms/default.html

pretty good explanation i think and a lot more info.

then what i can give you through email.

take a look, tell me what you think.

subi

>From: kayeelder@...

>Reply-To: mscuredegroups

>To: mscuredegroups

>Subject: Re: Digest Number 284

>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:35:58 EDT

>

>Subi,

>Thanks I think there is a better way too.I have done just about everything.

>As I chelate and strengthen the adrenals I am getting better! I haven't

>been

>able to say that ever before.

>

>I'd like to hear about the auvedic. i do accupuncture but don't have any

>experience with what you are doing.

>

>What symptoms do you have? Or are you in remission with no symptoms. O -to

>be there!

>

>Kaye

>

>.

>

October 6, 2000

Kaye,

You know, I think a lot of these things are little more than common sense and sometimes doctors don't seem to have any. Don't mean to sound bitter, but it gets OLD after a while.

Carol

> I avoid interferons, because of a reference I read that said there was some > fear of the body shutting down production of its own interferon permanently.GEES Carol,THats what scares the ---out of me. If you find a reference to that again I like to have it. I have not read anything like that but that is my gut fear. Just like the steroids.I ahve not found any doctor who will give an opinion on the intrerferons. Except for the neuros who just say take it . Even alternative ones really don't know what it does to us really. Just shrug their shoulders. I am the warrior. IF I have the facts i give it to them. At least some respected persons writing on it would support my uneducated medical opinion.Kaye.

October 6, 2000

Dear Kaye and friends,

I sign "Librarian" because I am not a person with MS and I am participating

because I am interested and have appropriate information to share.

The Brewer Science Library has the archives of the late Dr. Hans Nieper,

MD of Germany because our founder, Brewer, Ph.D. and Dr. Nieper had

common interests. Dr. Brewer then invited Dr. Nieper to have an archive

of his papers here, especially since many of Dr. Nieper's papers had been

published in English in addition to his native language, German, and also

French. Dr. Nieper had developed a special interest in "mineral carriers",

first the aspartates, then the orotates, then the EAP's (known also as

AEP's), then the arginines, etc. He treated many illnesses with regimens

containing these mineral carriers and other nutritional substances.

We have a web site listing the English papers and books by Dr. Nieper that

we have on medical topics. It is: http://www.mwt.net/~drbrewer

My email address is given above and our phone number is .

Our fax number is .

Even though Dr. Nieper passed away, two doctors and his nurse

have taken over the clinic where he worked in Germany and are continuing

his therapies. In addition there are doctors in the US who will help

patients who want to start the Calcium EAP therapy for MS.

Lillian Hanke

kayeelder@... wrote:

Dear Lillian:

Thank you so much for the article. I am so glad to find this group.

I'm

beginning to feel that maybe I am not alone in my thinking about

this

disease. and that is so nice.

So, there is a library and you are the librarian. How do I get there?

Thank you,

Kaye

..

October 6, 2000

Dear Carol,

I have sent a reply to Kaye and all of you today that will answer your

question. You will find the Hans Nieper Archive papers listed

at our website: http://www.mwt.net/~drbrewer

You may email me any questions you have about what you see there.

Lillian Hanke

Librarian

Carol Hanson wrote:

Lillian,I've

been trying to get my hands on Dr. Nieper's recommendations for MS for

a year or so. Do you have all that info?Carol

Dear Kaye,

Our library has the archives of the late Dr. Hans Nieper, MD of Germany.

I would like to quote what he says about various medications:

"5 to 8 mgs. of prednisone (no other cortisone)

can be taken daily. Prednisone is an imitator of the aforementioned*

surveillance steroids, other cortisones are not. At this dose prednisone

has no side effects. In addition to this, the Calcium-carriers like

Calcium-EAP and Calcium orotate are officially declared in Germany to compensate

cortisone side effects.

ACTH - therapy should be avoided under all conditions.

It worsens the disease in the long run since it "squeezes" the adrenal

glands. The profit from ACTH is only short term and will not last.

In another paper he said more about ACTH and warned against the use

of Imuran (azathioprine) and Endoxan (cyclophosphamide). He says:

"We have found the habit quite widespread--maybe

we should say the "bad habit"--of prescribing ACTH (adrenocorticotropic

hormone) to MS patients. While there is a temporary improvement,

the long run picture is of steady deterioration. This is the only

way it can be, because the already exhausted adrenal cortex system is just

been squeezed harder. If one (has been) given ACTH for a short time,

it is absolutely necessary to supply the required foods for the adrenal

cortex systems--raw foods, vitamin D2, vitamin C (in large doses), beta

carotene (dry form), and especially selenium (about 50 to 200 mcg daily).

We would like to emphasize that we have never used ACTH at all for the

past ten years.

We occasionally run across patients who have been

treated with these substances. Before administering this, I think that

it is essential to fully warn the patient that azathioprine will cause

liver damage if used for any length of time. In addition, there is

an increased susceptibility to viral infection and possibly even cancer.

There have been repeated warnings in the newspapers, especially in the

US, of the carcinogenic activity of immune inhibiting drugs.

And then there is cyclophosphamide (Endoxan, Cytoxan).

Occasionally, American doctors will prescribe this in highly toxic doses.

We often get these patients with their hair falling out, and with severe

damage to the blood building bone marrow. For this reason it is not

advisable to use (them)."

*explained earlier in the paper

So, these are some comments made by a physician who used what he evaluated

as worthwhile from the "orthodox" medicine community and primarily used

a nutritional support therapy for MS patients who travelled to see him.

Lillian Hanke

Librarian

kayeelder@... wrote:

In a message dated 10/3/00 2:00:33 PM Eastern

Daylight Time, drbrewer@...

writes:

> Have any of

> you out there had bad experiences with drug treatments that you'd

like

> to describe to the members of this group? How about side

effects?

Hi Lillian,

I am on Betaseron. No side effects. Except when I decide to go

off I think I

am a little more UP. Maybe just think I am?

I have also had 3 rounds of solumedrol in the last two years. I

will NEVER do

that again--Lord willing. I also took medrol for 7 years daily

for?

arthritis?-pain aching.

I loved it. Felt great on it till I got the IV's. They wiped me

out!

Depressed, weak brain dead for months after. Now I have finally

found a

doctor who knows why. My adrenals are real weak.--Maybe from all

the

steroids. My neuro (soon to be X neuro) thinks if I am tired I

need more

solumedrol. SO--I am working to strengthen myself after all this

treatment.

Bottom line is "listen to you self and be careful"

Kaye

..

October 8, 2000

In a message dated 10/6/00 1:21:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Cah819@...

writes:

> Kaye,

> I just sent the two articles a while ago. If you didn't get them, I'll

> re-send tomorrow.

> Carol

Carol,

I had trouble with my e-mail a while ago.Or maybe i still do .Don't always

get it all. Any way ,yes ,I 'd love for you to resend those articles if you

don't mind

Thanks,

Kaye

October 9, 2000

In a message dated 10/6/00 1:58:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cah819@...

writes:

> You know, I think a lot of these things are little more than common sense

> and sometimes doctors don't seem to have any. Don't mean to sound bitter,

> but it gets OLD after a while.

Corol,

I agree. Too bad it isn't a requirement to have a medical degree in order to

get sick. We need one.

kaye

October 9, 2000

In a message dated 10/9/00 10:18:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

marcyn@... writes:

> Kaye,

> When you get a chance I am interested in the Info on strengthening the

> adrenals. Thanks a bunch!

> cyn

>

Cyn and all,

i will list the things that Dr Rind gave me to strengthen the adrenals. He

does say that doing the temperature graph is very important as it show yo

uhow and when you are improving. You ucan get the directions at drrind.com or

functional-med.com

CORDYCEPS 3x/day

CYTOZYME-AD 2-3x/day

neonatal adrenal complex(bovine) 80mg

superoxide demutase 20mg

catalase 20mg

BASIC CELL MULTIPLE

this is Dr Rinds compounded perscription vitamin

trimethylgycine 500mg

p-5-p 25 mg

B5 500mg

biotin 10mg

co-enzyme q10 100 mg

pygnnnogenol 25 mg

Vit E 400mg

B-complex 50 mg

B12 3mg

choline 400 mg

flush free niacin 150 mg

lithium 100 mcg

folic acid 3 mg

inositol 400 mg

carnitor 50 mg

silicon 10 mg

multi II 2 tablets (?? typo?)

In addition to this he started me on a collgen which I can't handle yet

and Flor Essence tea for detox. Can't take that either. He also gave me img

testosterone/day -1/10 of a pill!

PLEASE read his web site first. I am very glad he is monitoring what is

hapening to me .

Kaye

October 9, 2000

Kaye,

When you get a chance I am interested in the Info on strengthening the

adrenals. Thanks a bunch!

cyn

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Re: Digest Number 284

> In a message dated 10/5/00 8:18:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> marcyn@... writes:

>

> >

> > Kaye, I have a feeling that my adrenals are messed up too. What can we

do

> > to

> > stimulate them and make them stronger?

> > cyn

> Cyn,

> Please write and askme again. I have to go see a client!

> ANd I'm not so good with this computer and organizing things in it andn

I'm

> having trouble writing -----BUT Ido have some answers on that subject.

>

> Kaye

>

> .

>

October 9, 2000

PS To DR RINDS adrenal support

DHEA 10 mg sr/ day (forgot that one)

Kaye

October 9, 2000

Kaye,

Here they are again.

The first one is from Ashton Embrys site:

The Cause of Multiple Sclerosis - Home of the Registered Charity: DIRECT-MS

Beta-interferon DrugsCurrently three different, but very closely related, drugs which consist of beta-interferon, a protein (cytokine) secreted by immune cells, are available for MS therapy (Betaseron, Avonex, Rebif). Clinical trials have demonstrated that these drugs reduce the number of exacerbations and lesion forming activity and thus are beneficial for treating MS. A number of immediate side effects (flu-like symptoms, site reactions) are often associated with these drugs but in most cases are not intolerable or dangerous. Depression can be a troublesome side effect and notably 3% of the study group on Betaseron attempted or committed suicide whereas no one in the placebo group attempted or committed suicide. One major concern in the use of Betaseron is that up to 40% of those taking it for up to 3 years develop neutralizing antibodies to the injected beta-interferon ( and Noseworthy, 1996). The immediate result of this is that the drug no longer will have any beneficial effect. Of more concern is the possibility that the produced antibodies will cross-react with and neutralize the individual's natural beta-interferon. If this happens the individual's immune system will be severely compromised with likely catastrophic results. There have been no confirmed reports of such disastrous cross reactions having occurred. Thus the decision to take these drugs is a bit of a gamble and I suggest that the pros and cons be thoroughly considered before deciding to accept such drug therapy.Longest Study of Multiple Sclerosis Drug Shows That Benefits Continue For Six> Years> > BALTIMORE, Aug. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Results of a six-year study show that> sustained use of the drug Copaxone significantly reduces the relapse rate and> also delays disability in people with the relapsing-remitting form of> multiple sclerosis (MS). The study, which is published in the August issue> of Multiple Sclerosis, is the longest evaluation so far of a licensed MS> therapy. The study is scheduled to continue until mid-2002, when> participants will> have been evaluated for 10 years.> > Of the 101 patients receiving daily injections of Copaxone throughout the> past six years, 77 have had three or fewer relapses, and 26 have not had any> relapses. Study participants also experienced a steady decline in the> relapse rate, so that on average, they were experiencing one relapse every> four to five years, compared to two medically documented relapses in the two> years prior to taking the medication and being part of the study. That> represents a 72 percent reduction in the annual relapse rate.> > "The findings suggest that not only is Copaxone well-tolerated, but that the> longer a patient takes the drug, the better it works," said ,> M.D., professor and chairman of neurology at the University of land> School of Medicine in Baltimore and principal investigator of the> multi-center trial.> > MS affects approximately 350,000 people in the U.S. About 60 percent of all> MS patients have the relapsing-remitting form of the disease, which is> characterized by relapses, also known as attacks. During those attacks, a> person has symptoms that include numbness, blurred vision, difficulty> walking, fatigue, and pain. Those symptoms are usually temporary and are> followed by periods of remission, in which the person feels no symptoms.> > "Over time, people with relapsing-remitting MS experience fewer relapses,> even if they are not taking medication. But they go on to have increasing> permanent disability," said Dr. . "This study showed that there was a> beneficial effect of treatment with Copaxone on neurological disability,> which continued over six years when patients were regularly evaluated by> their examining neurologist," added Dr. .> > Results of the study are important to people like 44-year-old Sue Rebstock> of Baltimore, who has been living with MS since 1990 and is a study> participant.> > "In 1993, when I came home from work, I was too exhausted to cook or take my> daughters to outside activities, such as cheerleading practice," said> Rebstock. She also remembers experiencing another common effect of MS --> blurred vision.> > During her first month of taking Copaxone, however, Rebstock had more> energy. Over the course of treatment, her overall condition has improved.> She is not bothered by blurred vision and she even has the energy to take> aerobic classes again.> > Rebstock was diagnosed with MS after her optometrist referred her to a> neurologist for complaints of blurred vision. She was discouraged to learn> the expected course of the disease, which is that on average, she could> expect to have some sort of permanent disability within 10 years of> diagnosis. Within 15 years, half of the people living with MS require some> sort of walking aid. "My biggest fear was that MS would make me> incapacitated and a burden> to my family," she says.> > An important finding in the study was that Copaxone could be taken daily for> years and be well tolerated, according to Dr. . "This is good news> because managing relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis requires long-term> drug therapy. Patients' willingness to make injections of Copaxone a part of> their daily routines is an important measure of the tolerability, safety, and> personal benefit of this treatment."> > Dr. also directs the land Center for Multiple Sclerosis at the> University of land Medical Center, which is taking part in an> international, multi-center study to evaluate the oral use of Copaxone. The> trial has just gotten underway and will last for 13 months. The goal is to> assess the effectiveness of an oral form of the drug compared to a placebo.> > Multiple Sclerosis is a peer-reviewed, bi-monthly scientific journal for> clinicians who treat MS patients, and researchers in all aspects of the> biology and pathology of the disease.> > The land Center for Multiple Sclerosis is committed to providing the> highest level of diagnosis and long-term care for individuals with MS. The> Center works closely with patients, families, and primary care physicians to> develop treatment plans that help patients manage their conditions> effectively and lead active, productive lives. The Center is recognized as a> world leader in innovative research programs with the goal of finding> effective> therapies and eventually curing or preventing MS.> > SOURCE University of land

> Kaye,> I just sent the two articles a while ago. If you didn't get them, I'll > re-send tomorrow.> CarolCarol,I had trouble with my e-mail a while ago.Or maybe i still do .Don't always get it all. Any way ,yes ,I 'd love for you to resend those articles if you don't mind Thanks,Kaye .

October 14, 2000

purchased many books years ago and as i was getting worse, taught myself

about toxic exposure and CNS. Its scary....

take care

kim

October 14, 2000

usually doctors do not know what it will do to you. you have to get the

little inserts that are given out at the pharmacy... the pharmacist can get

what ever info you want... i took a pharmacology class a few years ago....

kim

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