Guest guest Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 Hi, Recently I read about Omega-3 fatty acid and its benefits. It seems Omega-3 is useful in improvement of nerve signalling. Can it prove beneficial in treatment of CMT? Has anyone tried or done research on it? Thanks in advance. Regards, - Leena Devasthali --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:40:44 -0000, you wrote: >Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? > >Reasons for taking it? > >Thanks in advance! > >Flaco Salmon oil two gel tabs a day. Also eat walnuts, 1/4 cup most days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I take 2400mg Spring Valley Omega 3 two times a day. I needed something to bring down my high Triglycerides they where 220 and after taking four months of Omega 3 they are now 140 (100-150). So it has made a significant difference. My doctor wanted me to take Omicor, this is a prescription omega 3 but it was much more expensive than the OTC equivalent and my insurance didn't cover it. I have read about allot of other brands of Omega 3 causing upset stomach and make you burp up a fishy taste, I have had none of these affects and Sping Valley is available at Wall Mart. You need to be concerned with the manufacturer of this product due to contamination issues e.g. mercury, dioxin and so on I'm enclosing a website with a review on these products I hope it helps. http://oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=fishoil & sort=Company On 10/14/07, rndchemist <rndchemist@...> wrote: > > Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? > > Reasons for taking it? > > Thanks in advance! > > Flaco > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I take 3 soft gels of this a day Fish Oil for my Thyroid, Cortisol, dry skin, heart, sore joints and muscles and to have less feelings of depression. http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11071265 & whse=BC & topnav= & browse\ = & s=1 rndchemist <rndchemist@...> wrote: Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? Reasons for taking it? Thanks in advance! Flaco Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:08:58 -0400, you wrote: >Have the walnuts helped your cholesterol any, I was just watching Fox news >yesterday morning and they had a doctor on that was advocating walnuts for >good health, I was thinking of placing them in my diet. > >On 10/14/07, retrogrouch@... <retrogrouch@...> wrote: >> >> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:40:44 -0000, you wrote: >> >> >Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? >> > >> >Reasons for taking it? >> > >> >Thanks in advance! >> > >> >Flaco >> >> Salmon oil two gel tabs a day. Also eat walnuts, 1/4 cup most days. >> I had a stent put in a coronary artery in June and with that a million changes. I'm on statins for cholesterol, BP medicines, and taking fish oil and eating walnuts, and I dropped 30 pounds. There's no way to know where the good changes in cholesterol are coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. dmedic72 <dmedic72@...> wrote: > > >Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? > > > >Reasons for taking it? > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > >Flaco > > > Salmon oil two gel tabs a day. Also eat walnuts, 1/4 cup most days. > I take Omega 3-6-9, NOW brand. No Fish Liver Oil. Contains Flax seed oil, Evening Primrose Oil, Canola, Black Currant oil, and pumpkin seed oil. Works great and absolutely no fishy after taste. Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I must admit that i have real doubts about this claim. Does anyone have any real research backing this up? > > > > >Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? > > > > > >Reasons for taking it? > > > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > > > >Flaco > > > > > > Salmon oil two gel tabs a day. Also eat walnuts, 1/4 cup most days. > > > > I take Omega 3-6-9, NOW brand. No Fish Liver Oil. Contains Flax seed > oil, Evening Primrose Oil, Canola, Black Currant oil, and pumpkin > seed oil. > > Works great and absolutely no fishy after taste. > > > > > > > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " > Phil > > --------------------------------- > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 : Thanks for your reply and for the link! I also take Spring Valley's Omega-3 formula. I am taking 1,000 mg/day. I was planning on increasing it to twice a day since I read is good to prevent clots (I have the clotting factors on the high side). Also, I have dry skin issues and I read it is good for that too. Flaco > > > > Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? > > > > Reasons for taking it? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Flaco > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:57:22 -0000, you wrote: > >Subject: Re: Omega-3 fatty acids >From: " flip970039 " <flip970039@...> >Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:57:22 -0000 > >I must admit that i have real doubts about this claim. Does anyone >have any real research backing this up? http://www.cyst101.com/phyto.htm " When referring to phytoestrogens, it is generally thought that a " weak " estrogen may actually be protective against cancer causing xenoestrogens. The best example is Lilian PhD's work that showed that oral ground flax seed reduced breast cancer size between the time of diagnosis and surgery. The phytoestrogen contained in the flax seed binds to the estrogen receptor, but does not stimulate it. The flax seed phytoestrogen competes with other estrogens that would otherwise stimulate the estrogen receptor. The flax seed phytoestrogen acts as a blocker. In contrast, a strong phytoestrogen may actually make the disease worse. " http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/flaxseed/NS_patient-flaxseed The lignan constituents of flaxseed (not flaxseed oil) possesses in vitro anti-oxidant and possible estrogen receptor agonist/antagonist properties, prompting theories of efficacy for the treatment of breast cancer. .. . . Flaxseed oil contains only the alpha-linolenic acid component of flaxseed, and not the fiber or lignan components. Therefore, flaxseed oil may share the purported lipid-lowering properties of flaxseed, but not the proposed laxative or anti-cancer abilities. > > > > >> >> I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:08:21 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Most of what I am hearing is from Dr. here are some cut and pastes. > ======================================================= > Men should not consume soy as it acts as an estrogen mimic. The same is true of the phytoestrogens found in flax supplements. > >The doctors who wrote this need to learn the endocrine differences between males and females. > >You can drink flax seed oil all day, and it will not elevate DHEA and EPA enough to make a difference. It will, however, raise your risk of prostate cancer, and increase the inflammatory response. > >alpha-linolenic acid is known as " ALA " . It looks like this is true of the seed and grain supplements BUT NOT oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:08:21 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Most of what I am hearing is from Dr. here are some cut and pastes. > ======================================================= > Men should not consume soy as it acts as an estrogen mimic. The same is true of the phytoestrogens found in flax supplements. > >The doctors who wrote this need to learn the endocrine differences between males and females. > >You can drink flax seed oil all day, and it will not elevate DHEA and EPA enough to make a difference. It will, however, raise your risk of prostate cancer, and increase the inflammatory response. > >alpha-linolenic acid is known as " ALA " . Claims, purported benefits: Prevents heart disease and cancer. Bottom line: These claims are overstated. Flaxseed oil is heart-healthy because it contains alpha-linolenic acid. Flaxseed itself (ground or whole) also contains lignans, which may have antioxidant actions and may help protect against certain cancers, though this is far from certain. Add flaxseed and flaxseed oil to your diet if you wish. But don’t take flaxseed supplements. Plant estrogens, like human hormones, are not always benign. At high doses—and no one knows how much is too much—lignans might turn into cancer promoters. http://www.wellnessletter.com/html/ds/dsFlaxseed.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 It states that the reason it is recommended for women with breast cancer is that " the phytoestrogen contained in the flax seed binds to the estrogen receptor, but does not stimulate it " , so I would expect that it would work the same in men; not stimulating the receptor. Am I missing something here? > >> > >> I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 I'm taking 4x that amount but I'm also a big person and this is the dose the doctor recommended for me, I'm trying everything to stay off the cholesterol medicines my numbers are only slightly elevated except my tri... they are now normal. On 10/15/07, rndchemist <rndchemist@...> wrote: > > : > > Thanks for your reply and for the link! > > I also take Spring Valley's Omega-3 formula. I am taking 1,000 > mg/day. I was planning on increasing it to twice a day since I read > is good to prevent clots (I have the clotting factors on the high > side). Also, I have dry skin issues and I read it is good for that > too. > > Flaco > > > > > > > > Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? > > > > > > Reasons for taking it? > > > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > > > Flaco > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:37:06 -0000, you wrote: > It states that the reason it is recommended for women with breast >cancer is that " the phytoestrogen contained in the flax seed binds to >the estrogen receptor, but does not stimulate it " , so I would expect >that it would work the same in men; not stimulating the receptor. Am I >missing something here? First off it's only in the seed plant material - NOT in the oil. But I would worry that in men the phytoestrogen would fill testosterone receptor sites, as E2 does- and rob us of the T benefit. > > > > >> >> >> >> I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. >> >> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Here is a link posted by one of the guys at Dr. 's site. http://www.brianpeskin.com/efa-analysis.pdf This is what he says about this he did a lot of Flax seed in his day over did it made him dam sick. Here is what he says. ====================================================== THis is why I suggest people to have reason for taking specific supplements AKA fish oils and flaxseed. I admit a teaspoon will not hurt you but if you eat fish there is no need for it. These idiots on other boards taking 3 TBSP of fish oil a day are just asking for trouble.. In another month or so I am going to have my RBC fatty acid check for EPA,dha, AA , LNA, LA because that is where i need to see the imbalance are and if they have been corrected. Since I know now what I do not hav to get all the EFAS done and just get ones i need. As I have been preaching many times before correct 6:3 ratio is essentual for proper cell membrane functioning and in the human body is between 2-4: 1 6:3. I was a flaxseed oil freak for many years and my estrogens where never out of wack, but the balance of 6:3 was severly skewed and was I beleive the primary cause of my illness from 4 years ago. So for now I am using hempseed oil 2 TBSP daily and cutting back on fiber a bit since it does bind with fat if too much is present in a meal which my cholesterol has been reflecting for several years...my diet will br 40% fat 30% carbs and protein with 1/3 coming from saturated, mono, poly saturates. I know that fat decrease shbg and this is a proven fat. If iwas taking 50 grams of fiber a day and barely getting 40 grams of fat. it was basically being absorbed and pushed out by the fiber since it is common knowledge that fiber absorbs fat which could be explaining all of my lipid levels being incredible low as well as cholesterol.. retrogrouch@... wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:37:06 -0000, you wrote: > It states that the reason it is recommended for women with breast >cancer is that " the phytoestrogen contained in the flax seed binds to >the estrogen receptor, but does not stimulate it " , so I would expect >that it would work the same in men; not stimulating the receptor. Am I >missing something here? First off it's only in the seed plant material - NOT in the oil. But I would worry that in men the phytoestrogen would fill testosterone receptor sites, as E2 does- and rob us of the T benefit. > > > > >> >> >> >> I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. >> >> >> > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 My Dr. has me do 3 of these a day and my Wife's new Dr. put her on 3 a day but he gave her a script. I like this brand it does not come up on you. http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11071265 & whse=BC & topnav= & browse\ = & s=1 Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> wrote: What's the recommendation on Omega 3's? philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. dmedic72 <dmedic72@...> wrote: > > >Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? > > > >Reasons for taking it? > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > >Flaco > > > Salmon oil two gel tabs a day. Also eat walnuts, 1/4 cup most days. > I take Omega 3-6-9, NOW brand. No Fish Liver Oil. Contains Flax seed oil, Evening Primrose Oil, Canola, Black Currant oil, and pumpkin seed oil. Works great and absolutely no fishy after taste. Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 My wife and I used to do flax seed oil. It quite literally passed straight through her and ran down her leg. I know it sounds bad but it's the truth. Don't take it before you go to work. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: My Dr. has me do 3 of these a day and my Wife's new Dr. put her on 3 a day but he gave her a script. I like this brand it does not come up on you. http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11071265 & whse=BC & topnav= & browse\ = & s=1 Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> wrote: What's the recommendation on Omega 3's? philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. dmedic72 <dmedic72@...> wrote: > > >Is anybody taking this? If yes, how much? What type? > > > >Reasons for taking it? > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > >Flaco > > > Salmon oil two gel tabs a day. Also eat walnuts, 1/4 cup most days. > I take Omega 3-6-9, NOW brand. No Fish Liver Oil. Contains Flax seed oil, Evening Primrose Oil, Canola, Black Currant oil, and pumpkin seed oil. Works great and absolutely no fishy after taste. Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:52:35 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >ate: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:52:35 -0700 (PDT) > >What's the recommendation on Omega 3's? 2 g. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3006624 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Philip: Thank you for that interesting link! Are there any Omega 6/3 fatty acids supplements that are 100% from fish oil? Flaco > >> >> > >> >> I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " > Phil > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I am not sure but the best one's come from Fish Oil's. rndchemist <rndchemist@...> wrote: Philip: Thank you for that interesting link! Are there any Omega 6/3 fatty acids supplements that are 100% from fish oil? Flaco > >> >> > >> >> I am hearing bad things about Flax Seed and high E2 levels. > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " > Phil > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:06:57 -0000, you wrote: >Philip: > >Thank you for that interesting link! > >Are there any Omega 6/3 fatty acids supplements that are 100% from >fish oil? I've got to take issue with the article. It makes a big deal about " negative " impacts of omega 3 oils suppressing immune function - but that is exactly why cardiologists and others recommend it. It reduces inflammation that is the start of coronary artery disease. It quiets allergic like reactions that are harmful to the body. SO what is really a sales brochure for is touting the very benefit of the oil as a negative . I'm sorry looking over the site makes me very skeptical of this guy. His site brags about him being a professor, but if you dig you find out he's an electrical engineer who was once an adjunct professor. http://www.brianpeskin.com/theprofessorsstory.html A further look shows he's been indicted for fraud: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/Peskin/complaint.html http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/Peskin/peskin.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_jobs_and_money/story/0,3605,1173433,00.html " Jukes and his wife Fay were formerly involved in a pyramid diet scheme called Best of Health which was run from near Glasgow. Fay appeared in a " before " and " after " testimonial after she lost 22lbs in five months. Best of Health used the Radiant Health Diet from US " nutrition guru " Peskin. In 2002, the Texas Attorney General charged Peskin with making misleading claims. Besides slamming the product, the law chief also alleged Peskin did not hold his claimed PhD; was not a research scientist or a professor. Best of Health sued Peskin. He's peddled every conceivable miracle - even cellulite remover: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18700086.html I think I'll look to the American Heart Association over this guys writings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Thanks for the research this is point on you do good dam good work. I will let my friend know what you found he will be shocked. retrogrouch@... wrote: On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:06:57 -0000, you wrote: >Philip: > >Thank you for that interesting link! > >Are there any Omega 6/3 fatty acids supplements that are 100% from >fish oil? I've got to take issue with the article. It makes a big deal about " negative " impacts of omega 3 oils suppressing immune function - but that is exactly why cardiologists and others recommend it. It reduces inflammation that is the start of coronary artery disease. It quiets allergic like reactions that are harmful to the body. SO what is really a sales brochure for is touting the very benefit of the oil as a negative . I'm sorry looking over the site makes me very skeptical of this guy. His site brags about him being a professor, but if you dig you find out he's an electrical engineer who was once an adjunct professor. http://www.brianpeskin.com/theprofessorsstory.html A further look shows he's been indicted for fraud: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/Peskin/complaint.html http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/Peskin/peskin.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_jobs_and_money/story/0,3605,1173433,00.html " Jukes and his wife Fay were formerly involved in a pyramid diet scheme called Best of Health which was run from near Glasgow. Fay appeared in a " before " and " after " testimonial after she lost 22lbs in five months. Best of Health used the Radiant Health Diet from US " nutrition guru " Peskin. In 2002, the Texas Attorney General charged Peskin with making misleading claims. Besides slamming the product, the law chief also alleged Peskin did not hold his claimed PhD; was not a research scientist or a professor. Best of Health sued Peskin. He's peddled every conceivable miracle - even cellulite remover: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18700086.html I think I'll look to the American Heart Association over this guys writings. Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:40:02 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Thanks for the research this is point on you do good dam good work. I will let my friend know what you found he will be shocked. > >retrogrouch@... wrote: On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:06:57 -0000, you wrote: > >>Philip: >> >>Thank you for that interesting link! >> >>Are there any Omega 6/3 fatty acids supplements that are 100% from >>fish oil? Thanks. That said the 6/3 ratio is recommended by others. It's just this guy uses it to peddle his books and supplements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 All the guys that were reading and post at Dr. 's say thanks good job. retrogrouch@... wrote: On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:40:02 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Thanks for the research this is point on you do good dam good work. I will let my friend know what you found he will be shocked. > >retrogrouch@... wrote: On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:06:57 -0000, you wrote: > >>Philip: >> >>Thank you for that interesting link! >> >>Are there any Omega 6/3 fatty acids supplements that are 100% from >>fish oil? Thanks. That said the 6/3 ratio is recommended by others. It's just this guy uses it to peddle his books and supplements. Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Retro: Thanks for your research report on this article! Flaco > > >Philip: > > > >Thank you for that interesting link! > > > >Are there any Omega 6/3 fatty acids supplements that are 100% from > >fish oil? > > > I've got to take issue with the article. It makes a big deal about > " negative " impacts of omega 3 oils suppressing immune function - but > that is exactly why cardiologists and others recommend it. It reduces > inflammation that is the start of coronary artery disease. It quiets > allergic like reactions that are harmful to the body. > > SO what is really a sales brochure for is touting the very benefit of > the oil as a negative . I'm sorry looking over the site makes me very > skeptical of this guy. His site brags about him being a professor, > but if you dig you find out he's an electrical engineer who was once > an adjunct professor. > http://www.brianpeskin.com/theprofessorsstory.html > > A further look shows he's been indicted for fraud: > http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/Peskin/complaint.html > http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/Peskin/peskin.html > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_jobs_and_money/story/0,3605,1173433 ,00.html > " Jukes and his wife Fay were formerly involved in a pyramid diet > scheme called Best of Health which was run from near Glasgow. Fay > appeared in a " before " and " after " testimonial after she lost 22lbs in > five months. > > Best of Health used the Radiant Health Diet from US " nutrition guru " > Peskin. In 2002, the Texas Attorney General charged Peskin with > making misleading claims. Besides slamming the product, the law chief > also alleged Peskin did not hold his claimed PhD; was not a research > scientist or a professor. Best of Health sued Peskin. > > > He's peddled every conceivable miracle - even cellulite remover: > http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18700086.html > > > I think I'll look to the American Heart Association over this guys > writings. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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