re: Bad Thoughts

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I know how un-nerving this behavior can be. As I read your post, I

thought 'this could be me about a year ago'! We have been through a

very similar small animal situation with our daughter, 13. Although

each child is uniquely different, I thought I'd share our experience

if only to let you know that you are not alone.

Anne had a couple of gerbils which she, too adored. She had earned

them through consistent hard work with ERP. She admitted to shaking

one of them after he bit her once, and she took risks with their

well being by giving them baths in the sink...despite being warned

of the risks, one of them did drown. About this same time, we were

having much difficulty getting her to really 'buy into' OCD therapy,

and were in the process of having comprehensive personality and

psychological testing done to assist us in understanding how better

to engage her in therapy. The psychologist administering the tests

felt that an underlying suppressed anger was a root in the acting

out of some harmful thoughts. Through this time, I was a wreck,

thinking that she was some sort of sociopath. Like your son, she is

truly a neat kid with a heart of gold. We supported her

(acknowledged that she didn't *want* to harm her pets, but because

of choices she made, one was injured) during this time. Also, she

was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD by this same psychologist. With

continued work in therapy against OCD; with some work in therpay to

help her express anger in open communication; with the initiation of

ADHD medication (Concerta); with some additional maturity; and with

the grace of God, the harmful behavior has subsided. We even (after

much discussion and a pet-owner responsibility contract) purchased a

puppy for her at the beginning of summer because of how much

responsibility she had demonstrated in dealing with newly diagnosed

Type I diabetes. Occasionally, she does verbalize some OCD thoughts

about her dog, but she is very able to recognize them as such and

shrugs them off as irritating distractions.

It is my understanding that harmful thoughts are common with OCD,

but that the thoughts are rarely acted upon. I wonder if, in some

children with impulse-control issues for whatever reason, the urge

to act is too great. I'm just speculating, now.

I hope something here is helpful - again, if only to know you are

not alone. Certainly, see what your therapist has to say...I'd be

interested, also. Let us know.

Blessings-

(Ohio) Anne (13...OCD, inattentive ADHD, diabetes, field

hockey goalie extraordinaire!)

[Guest guest]

I think a lot of kids do things to animals that they realize can hurt

them and realize they shouldn't do. But it seems with ocd the kids

tend to dwell on every little thing. Say a kid slaps a dog and

realizes they shouldn't have done that. Most kids shrug it off, but

the ocd kid tends to think about it constantly, especially those with

bad thought ocd.

My daughter had bad thought ocd at age 5, and it appears to have

subsided. She thought of poking her eyes out, jumping out of trees,

and lots of other stuff. She and we were a nervous wreck.

I'm not sure how ADDHD affects impulse control, but it may be nothing

more than kids doing what kids do. It seems most kids have poor

impulse control anyway. I'm not saying it's okay to be mean to

animals, but kids do things and then realize after the fact they

shouldn't have.

Keep an eye on him and see what the therapist says.

Mark

> Hi,

> We have hit a bump in the road! My son has a pet rat that he

adores, a day or

> two ago he told me he was having bad thoughts about his rat dying

and that

> made him sad. He also told me two to three weeks ago that he is

afraid he

> will hurt his pet rat. That he gets impulses to hurt him. He said

he has had

> these impulses for a long time and also gets them about our dog (

who is

> large and in no danger). The rats are a new pet we have had about

six weeks,

> right around the time he was diagnosed with OCD. We have said only

> supervised visits with the rats, but today he got the rats out

without

> permission. I must admit I have been a little more lax because he

is doing so

> well. Well he came upstairs quite upset and said that he had shook

the rat. I

> checked the rat over and he appears fine, but of course it was

very upsetting

> to me. Now that I look back over his relationship with the dog who

is very

> good natured, he probably poked, pinched or otherwise hurt the dog

in the

> past, but the dog would just handle it himself and bark, yelp or

growl to stop

> Luke and then Luke would stop. He is just now letting us in on

some of his

> OCD thoughts. Anyway, I was hoping that someone else has dealt with

this

> and can give me additional advice or their experiences. He is ADDHD

too,

> and has poor impulse control, although he is a good kid. He does

not want to

> hurt his rat or his dog! Of course I wil be telling the therapist

about this, but I

> value your experiences.

> Help!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , we have also been through this, from OCD onset at age four up

through age seven or so (she's 10 now.) My daughter is also a good kid, a

tenderhearted animal lover who was horrified at the ideas, compulsions,

urges that kept pushing her to hurt or kill her beloved pets.

When she acted on these (squeezed her puppy too hard and made it cry for

example) she was hysterical and devastated, and I barged into her pdoc's

office demanding " I thought people with OCD didn't **do** the things they

obsessed about!!! " He explained that young children especially do not have

the impulse control of adults...and so do sometimes act on their OCD

thoughts. I don't know how the comorbid ADHD may fit in there, my child has

some aspects of this too but not the full picture.

What worked here was treating this as the straight OCD obsession and

compulsion it was, not a flaw in her character or etc, unwanted by everyone

especially my daughter. Getting her meds right helped, adding Risperdal for

impulsiveness and " urge " behaviors helped a lot, as did CBT/ERP to target

the obsession that really, she did want to hurt her pets and the compulsions

to poke, prod, pinch to relieve the anxiety the obsession brought her.

Good luck, I know this is distressing to all but is truly, just another mean

trick OCD plays on our kids, no different at its core than a constant

thought that hands are dirty. Some practical considerations, such as the

" supervised visits " your son has with his rats, is probably wise for the

animals' sakes for now.

Take care,

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

> Hi,

> We have hit a bump in the road! My son has a pet rat that he adores, a

day or

> two ago he told me he was having bad thoughts about his rat dying and that

> made him sad. He also told me two to three weeks ago that he is afraid he

> will hurt his pet rat. That he gets impulses to hurt him. He said he has

had

> these impulses for a long time and also gets them about our dog ( who is

> large and in no danger). The rats are a new pet we have had about six

weeks,

> right around the time he was diagnosed with OCD. We have said only

> supervised visits with the rats, but today he got the rats out without

> permission. I must admit I have been a little more lax because he is doing

so

> well. Well he came upstairs quite upset and said that he had shook the

rat. I

> checked the rat over and he appears fine, but of course it was very

upsetting

> to me. Now that I look back over his relationship with the dog who is very

> good natured, he probably poked, pinched or otherwise hurt the dog in the

> past, but the dog would just handle it himself and bark, yelp or growl to

stop

> Luke and then Luke would stop. He is just now letting us in on some of

his

> OCD thoughts. Anyway, I was hoping that someone else has dealt with this

> and can give me additional advice or their experiences. He is ADDHD too,

> and has poor impulse control, although he is a good kid. He does not want

to

> hurt his rat or his dog! Of course I wil be telling the therapist about

this, but I

> value your experiences.

> Help!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

We went through this with our daughter a couple of years ago, although it

still pops up in a weakened form from time to time. Annie has OCD and ADHD

also - poor impulse control is her middle name. Anyway, she used to have bad

thoughts about hurting our cat or dog - although what she meant by hurting them

was not letting them in when they wanted to and watching their sad faces at the

door. Or telling them that she hated them. But for her, that was just as

extreme as hitting them. She used to also have horrible thoughts about throwing

her favorite stuffed animal out the car window on the freeway, etc. She had a

couple of really bad nights where she attempted ERP on her own, and, for

example, told her hamster that she hated her " to her face " (as she said it) and

then

cried uncontrollably for hours and hours because she was SURE that Scarlet had

understood and had looked at her with hurt, sad eyes (and of course she had

to do this at midnight on a school night). I know she has thought about hitting

the dogs too, although that has been more recent and she has dealt with it

much better. I think this is a really common form of OCD torture. These kids are

usually extremely sensitive and are the least likely of anyone to hurt their

pets, which is exactly why OCD picks on them in this way. It helped Annie to

have that explained to her over and over - you would never hurt the pets

because you adore them. The reason OCD is tormenting you this way is BECAUSE it

seems like such an awful thing. The people who DO hurt their pets don't see it

as

a particularly big deal. That and gradual, supervised ERP (doing the behavior

in a mild form, and seeing that nothing horrible happens) worked for us. We

had Anne do things like delay letting the dogs in, and looking at them. Then

noticing that they didn't care at all when she finally opened the door. We had

her tell me that she really hated me and wished I were dead. I didn't crumble

away from hurt feelings (never mind that now she is 12 and says those things

pretty routinely!!!!!). In the end, it all comes down to exposure!

Good luck!

in NV

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Thank you so much for your experiences, it really helps me to put everything

in perspective. The therapist was asking if I thought he was psychotic today,

so all your words helped me to explain what I thought was going on. He said

he was not mad at the rats, and that no voices told him to hurt the rats. The

impulsiveness of the act did strike me as accurate, because he can't explain

why he did it, he just felt great remorse afterward. I can't tell you what a

great

support you all are to me. How many places can you go and tell people that

your son thinks about and has hurt his pet rats and have support and

understanding? Thank you, thank you, thank you! I feel like we can work

through this OCD issue, too. He did go in and talk to the therapist today and

did talk about the rat issue, so that is a big step. He was very resisitant to

therapy at the beginning and we are seeing improvements. He did earn 4

packs of Star Wars Cards for talking to the therapist about this issue. He

definately needs motivation!

Thanks Again,