Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 I have been reading the past posts on CST and would like to know ifanyone knows of a good CST in the San Diego County area that couldhelp with an infant? I know of and refer to several. I have a client that I just saw today who could REALLY use this! Herbaby is 16 days old. A very traumatic birth c-section with use ofvacuum in multiple spots left 2 huge cephalohematomas on this baby'shead. This child's head looks like a Klingon from Star Trek still at16 DOL. I think the baby may also have some neurologic issues, but Idon't know if that is just from the birth trauma. Birth trauma and lockage of plates of the skull and the spine can cause breastfeeding issues and short term neurologic issues. If not treated, they become long term issues. Anyway, this baby has also become "addicted" to the Haberman feederthat another LC recommended. She doesn't have a cleft palate, so Idon't know why it was recommended. A baby that won't feed from the breast can't feed from the breast. So then the question becomes what alternative method of feeding will help to preserve breastfeeding while we fix the breastfeeding? The Haberman is a pretty good substitute for the breast, whether there are cleft palate issues or not, b/c it works on compression and suction, not just suction as most other bottles do. And it might have been the only breastfeeding alternative this LC was allowed to use, depending on what hospital she works in. I think this baby needs to havesome kind of massage or chiropracty performed to help her along. Massage and chiropractic are separate modalities that do not address the issues you have raised with this infant. Massage is only a surface treatment and could exacerbate the situation b/c many of these babies are in chronic pain. Chiropractic cannot go as deep nor the adjustments hold as long as CST does. I refer my clients to several articles on line so that they have more of an understanding of what is involved and also what the red flags or indicators are for the need for CST. For many of them, they are unfamiliar with CST and are very apprehensive about any kind of manipulation done to their infant. Have you broached the subject of CST to this client? Is she knowledgeable, interested, or willing to pursue these treatments? For many of the parents to whom I recommend CST, they are very reluctant to pursue this. Fortunately, I have a good number of clients who have had CST recommended to them (by me) and who have pursued it and are happily breastfeeding today. They have been willing to have me refer current clients to them so they can share their experiences. Warmly, Ann , IBCLC, RLC North County Lactation Services Poway, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 "I refer my clients to several articles on line so that they have more of an understanding of what is involved and also what the red flags or indicators are for the need for CST." Ann--what articles? Thankyou Bracha Haskel IBCLC Israel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Ann, Yous describe online resources that you recommend your client parents read prior to pursuing CST, to make sure they're up to the task. Please share them with us... Also, I'd appreciate the names of the local providers you're recommending as well - wouldn't want to refer to the wrong folks... Thanks in advance, lee Hulburt, IBCLC Lactation Consultants of San Diego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 "I refer my clients to several articles on line so that they have more of an understanding of what is involved and also what the red flags or indicators are for the need for CST." Ann--what articles? Thankyou Bracha Haskel IBCLC Israel In addition to the website locations, I also have a handout that a colleague of mine and I created, but it is undergoing revision. The original one also provided information about chiropractic as a method of resolving some suck issues. However, in discussions with a DC who is also a CST therapist, we have learned that her professional opinion is that CST can get into the issues more deeply and that the adjustments hold longer for these babies than just chiropractic. Because many, if not most, of my clients come to me after at least 3-5 weeks, many mothers are calling me to wave a magic wand and make it all better in one consult. So for them to see that it will take at least another 3-5 weeks to get things back on track is very daunting. Referring them to CST rather than chiropractic seems to offer a more effective way of resolving some of these issues. Here are the websites that I regularly refer parents to for info on CST: http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVAugSep01p82.html http://www.cstdoula.com/ocranioinf.html http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/cst.html The following site is an article by Dee Kassing, BS, MLS, IBCLC (bless her for this and for the paced bottle feeding information!) that I do not routinely refer to parents, because it is a bit more technical, but an excellent resource for IBCLCs: http://www.bfar.org/craniosacral.shtml If you are interested in really finding a lot of information on CST, google "craniosacral therapy breastfeeding"; there are tons of sites for your edification. As shared in her response to my queries, in Chapter 7, a chapter she authored in the book she co-authored, "Impact of Birthing Practices on Breastfeeding" by Kroeger with , she offers a wonderful troubleshooting list (pp. 119): *** Babies who can latch but cannot sustain sucking *** Babies who appear to suck, but cannot transfer or obtain milk from a full breast *** Babies who cannot smoothly coordinate sucking, swallowing, and breathing *** Babies who can feed in only one position or posture *** Babies who are dissatisfied at breast and fussy or distressed many hours per day *** Babies who chew, crease, and damage the mother's nipple(s) *** Babies who may not feed much better from devices I would add: *** Babies who can latch deeply initially but slide, move or come down the breast to the nipple *** Babies who cannot open their mouths wide enough for a comfortable latch *** Babies who cannot latch period Warmly, Ann , IBCLC, RLC North County Lactation Services Poway, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Dear All: I have a page about CST on my website, http://www.alwaysbest.info/output.php?id=aboutme_therapist & nav=x_nav_aboutme & bg=36 I also am getting to speak at ILCA about it in July 2006!! It will be a LC's view of CST, with case studies. warmly, Nikki Lee RN, MS, Mother of 2, IBCLC, CCEMaternal-Child Adjunct Faculty Union Institute and UniversityFilm Reviews Editor, Journal of Human Lactationwww.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Also, I'd appreciate the names of the local providers you're recommending as well - wouldn't want to refer to the wrong folks...Thanks in advance, Dear lee, I have four names, three of which were given to me by clients: Dr. Centers, DO Osteopathic Center for Children 4135 54th Place San Diego 92105 www.osteopathiccenter.org Shiva Merritt, Craniosacral Specialist World of Wellness Chiropractic Center 13727 Camino Canada Suite A-4 El Cajon 92021 www.wowchiro.com Dr. Hee, DC 16776 Bernardo Center Dr. San Diego, CA 92128 (Rancho Bernardo) and saving the best for last: Dr. Bridget Chelf, DC Ocean Wellness 509 South Cedros Ste. D Solana Beach 92075 OK, here are my experiences. Dr. Centers-two clients the first one had a quick turnaround and good response. The second client's baby had much more serious involvement. He is helping this client also, although in very tiny steps. Shiva Merritt - I have only had one client who used her CST services. Good outcome, liked her touch and how she related to the babies and children. Dr. Hee - only one client, not mine. Colleague reported some response to CST, but baby was older - 4 or 5 months - before CST had even been recommended, if I remember correctly. Colleague (an RN) is more skeptical of CST's impact on suck issues and has bee slow/reluctant to refer. Dr. Bridget Chelf (my CST mentor, who has taken time to give me a list of what are red flags and how to ID them after incredible success with the first client I referred to her; made a believer out of me and the Mom!) and the one to whom I have referred the most clients usually b/c she was most convenient to them geographically. Twins with crappy sucks, babies with no latch, babies with shallow latch, babies with bubble palates, babies I couldn't figure out what they were doing wrong, but couldn't transfer milk and caused blanched Ns on their Moms, babies I thought had frenulum issues b/c tongue was not extending over lips and gums. She is the one who works most professionally with me and my other colleague who does refer for CST more often: reports back to us with what she has found and what she is recommending after every CST tx. Very thorough. I hope this information gives you a beginning for referring. I usually ask if the parents are familiar with or have ever had chiropractic treatments. This is usually an entry way experience for many people to alternative or complementary medical modalities. It will give you an idea of how familiar or comfortable they are with the idea of CST, of which most have not heard anything about it. Several of my clients were familiar with it and, as I said, one even gave me a new name. Ya just never know. Warmly, Ann IBCLC, RLC North County Lactation Services Poway, CA 92064 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Thanks for the great info Ann! Your posts, et. al., have given me a better understanding of this specialty...appreciate the resources..lee Happy to help you, lee. CST is such an important tool in our LC toolbox. And when you consider that it is helping babies feel better, happier in their bodies, it has such merit! Warmly, Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Betsy, You may want to post your question on Lactnet as you will then have access to a vast group of very knowledgeable professionals. One name especially comes to mind: Nikki Lee. She was to present at the ILCA conference on cranio-sacral therapy. Nikki Lee often posts on Lactnet. Also, have you explored under the baby's tongue for ankyloglossia. Bubble palates, from my experience, are often found in babies with tongue-tie. Good luck with your first customer. Ghislaine Reid, IBCLC Montreal (Quebec), Canada CST > Dear Colleagues: > > I have a client whose baby, I think (from oral exam), has a bubble > palate. Nipples now very sore - only a week old and near term (now 37 > weeks and 6 lbs 4 oz). Milk exchange seems to be ok. My friend who is > her pediatrician referred her to me as one of my first clients. From > a comment she made to me when I announced I was going into practice, I > know she does not give credence to cranio sacral therapy. And now > with this baby, I'm wondering, depending how things go, if this might > really be an option. Does CST really help the palate? Part of the > problem is that I have no experience with it and need to understand it > better. Are there any " legitimate " references which you would give to > a physician to back up your suggestion about using CST for this problem? > > Thanks for your input. This business can be nervewracking! > > Betsy > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I don't know about references, but I treat CST as an experimental therapy. As far as I know, there has never been a RCT demonstrating its efficacy, but enough mothers and IBCLCs have found it to be helpful that I think it is worth trying, especially if the baby is very angry and fussy and the birth was traumatic.Have you gotten a very close look at the frenulum? I am seeing posterior tongue ties everywhere lately!  Also, sometimes I can't figure out the problem, but if the mom is willing to hang in there with maintaining milk production, doing paced bottle-feeding or whatever alternate feeding method you both agree on, and plenty of skin-to-skin, then tincture of time often solves the problem.Good luck, I am sure you are doing a great job with this mom! Dear Colleagues: I have a client whose baby, I think (from oral exam), has a bubble palate. Nipples now very sore - only a week old and near term (now 37 weeks and 6 lbs 4 oz). Milk exchange seems to be ok. My friend who is her pediatrician referred her to me as one of my first clients. From a comment she made to me when I announced I was going into practice, I know she does not give credence to cranio sacral therapy. And now with this baby, I'm wondering, depending how things go, if this might really be an option. Does CST really help the palate? Part of the problem is that I have no experience with it and need to understand it better. Are there any "legitimate" references which you would give to a physician to back up your suggestion about using CST for this problem? Thanks for your input. This business can be nervewracking! Betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Dear Friends: I am glad that more people are asking about CST. There are many tools that help mothers and babies get to easy and comfortable breastfeeding. s2s, remedial co-bathing and mother expressing or pumping a full supply of her milk are a few. Others are CST, chiropractic, osteopathy, and homeopathy. There are no studies that support or deny the value of body work, except for Field's vast research that shows that infant massage is helpful in reducing depression in mothers, and promotes faster weight gain and quicker discharge from NICU in premature infants. Clinically, I have seen CST work miracles...........as in the 2-month old baby whose torticollis resolved on the table! At a minimum, the mother becomes profoundly relaxed and can reaffirm her commitment to bf. The mothering relationship is improved, even if breastfeeding isn't. These hands-on therapies are all valuable and worth a try. They are also not magic fairy dust; there are some situations where the healing has to truly come from within the mother and baby, facilitated by the LC and whatever tools the LC chooses to use. warmly, Nikki Lee RN, MS, Mother of 2, IBCLC, RLC, CCEcraniosacral therapy practitionerFaculty, Lactation Division Maternal-Infant Program, Union InstituteFilm Reviews Editor, JHLwww.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 about the posterior tongue tie - i see those all the time too, but i was under the impression that the remedy for that is z-plasty - a much more involved surgical procedure - am i correcty about that? there is nothing to clip, right? i find mothers are *very* reticent to consider a simple frenotomy, let alone surgery! what is your approach? how has the response been? as for the 37 weeker - i agree that a few weeks can make a huge difference! once baby gets to 42 weeks, everything often turns around. tincture of time is indeed magical! thanks, Lyla -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lynnette Hafken, IBCLCSent: Friday, May 19, 2006 4:26 AMTo: Subject: Re: CSTI don't know about references, but I treat CST as an experimental therapy. As far as I know, there has never been a RCT demonstrating its efficacy, but enough mothers and IBCLCs have found it to be helpful that I think it is worth trying, especially if the baby is very angry and fussy and the birth was traumatic. Have you gotten a very close look at the frenulum? I am seeing posterior tongue ties everywhere lately! Also, sometimes I can't figure out the problem, but if the mom is willing to hang in there with maintaining milk production, doing paced bottle-feeding or whatever alternate feeding method you both agree on, and plenty of skin-to-skin, then tincture of time often solves the problem. Good luck, I am sure you are doing a great job with this mom! Dear Colleagues:I have a client whose baby, I think (from oral exam), has a bubblepalate. Nipples now very sore - only a week old and near term (now 37weeks and 6 lbs 4 oz). Milk exchange seems to be ok. My friend who isher pediatrician referred her to me as one of my first clients. Froma comment she made to me when I announced I was going into practice, Iknow she does not give credence to cranio sacral therapy. And nowwith this baby, I'm wondering, depending how things go, if this mightreally be an option. Does CST really help the palate? Part of theproblem is that I have no experience with it and need to understand itbetter. Are there any "legitimate" references which you would give toa physician to back up your suggestion about using CST for this problem?Thanks for your input. This business can be nervewracking!Betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nikki lee is on this list too!! Lyla Re: CST Betsy, You may want to post your question on Lactnet as you will then have access to a vast group of very knowledgeable professionals. One name especially comes to mind: Nikki Lee. She was to present at the ILCA conference on cranio-sacral therapy. Nikki Lee often posts on Lactnet. Also, have you explored under the baby's tongue for ankyloglossia. Bubble palates, from my experience, are often found in babies with tongue-tie. Good luck with your first customer. Ghislaine Reid, IBCLC Montreal (Quebec), Canada CST > Dear Colleagues: > > I have a client whose baby, I think (from oral exam), has a bubble > palate. Nipples now very sore - only a week old and near term (now 37 > weeks and 6 lbs 4 oz). Milk exchange seems to be ok. My friend who is > her pediatrician referred her to me as one of my first clients. From > a comment she made to me when I announced I was going into practice, I > know she does not give credence to cranio sacral therapy. And now > with this baby, I'm wondering, depending how things go, if this might > really be an option. Does CST really help the palate? Part of the > problem is that I have no experience with it and need to understand it > better. Are there any " legitimate " references which you would give to > a physician to back up your suggestion about using CST for this > problem? > > Thanks for your input. This business can be nervewracking! > > Betsy > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 The two moms that I have seen recently whose babies have had posterior tongue ties have been VERY committed to breastfeeding, and have actually been willing to go to NY to see Dr. Coryllos for treatment. It just requires snipping the membrane very close to the base of the tongue, no Z-plasty. Maybe if the patient is not an infant it's a more invasive process, but at least Dr. Coryllos just does a couple snips and completely fixes it.Lynnette about the posterior tongue tie - i see those all the time too, but i was under the impression that the remedy for that is z-plasty - a much more involved surgical procedure - am i correcty about that? there is nothing to clip, right? i find mothers are *very* reticent to consider a simple frenotomy, let alone surgery! what is your approach? how has the response been?   as for the 37 weeker - i agree that a few weeks can make a huge difference! once baby gets to 42 weeks, everything often turns around. tincture of time is indeed magical!  thanks, Lyla -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lynnette Hafken, IBCLCSent: Friday, May 19, 2006 4:26 AMTo: Subject: Re: CSTI don't know about references, but I treat CST as an experimental therapy. As far as I know, there has never been a RCT demonstrating its efficacy, but enough mothers and IBCLCs have found it to be helpful that I think it is worth trying, especially if the baby is very angry and fussy and the birth was traumatic. Have you gotten a very close look at the frenulum? I am seeing posterior tongue ties everywhere lately!  Also, sometimes I can't figure out the problem, but if the mom is willing to hang in there with maintaining milk production, doing paced bottle-feeding or whatever alternate feeding method you both agree on, and plenty of skin-to-skin, then tincture of time often solves the problem. Good luck, I am sure you are doing a great job with this mom! Dear Colleagues:I have a client whose baby, I think (from oral exam), has a bubblepalate. Nipples now very sore - only a week old and near term (now 37weeks and 6 lbs 4 oz). Milk exchange seems to be ok. My friend who isher pediatrician referred her to me as one of my first clients. Froma comment she made to me when I announced I was going into practice, Iknow she does not give credence to cranio sacral therapy. And nowwith this baby, I'm wondering, depending how things go, if this mightreally be an option. Does CST really help the palate? Part of theproblem is that I have no experience with it and need to understand itbetter. Are there any "legitimate" references which you would give toa physician to back up your suggestion about using CST for this problem?Thanks for your input. This business can be nervewracking!Betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 thank you!! -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lynnette Hafken, IBCLCSent: Friday, May 19, 2006 7:33 AMTo: Subject: Re: CST The two moms that I have seen recently whose babies have had posterior tongue ties have been VERY committed to breastfeeding, and have actually been willing to go to NY to see Dr. Coryllos for treatment. It just requires snipping the membrane very close to the base of the tongue, no Z-plasty. Maybe if the patient is not an infant it's a more invasive process, but at least Dr. Coryllos just does a couple snips and completely fixes it. Lynnette about the posterior tongue tie - i see those all the time too, but i was under the impression that the remedy for that is z-plasty - a much more involved surgical procedure - am i correcty about that? there is nothing to clip, right? i find mothers are *very* reticent to consider a simple frenotomy, let alone surgery! what is your approach? how has the response been? as for the 37 weeker - i agree that a few weeks can make a huge difference! once baby gets to 42 weeks, everything often turns around. tincture of time is indeed magical! thanks, Lyla -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lynnette Hafken, IBCLCSent: Friday, May 19, 2006 4:26 AMTo: Subject: Re: CSTI don't know about references, but I treat CST as an experimental therapy. As far as I know, there has never been a RCT demonstrating its efficacy, but enough mothers and IBCLCs have found it to be helpful that I think it is worth trying, especially if the baby is very angry and fussy and the birth was traumatic. Have you gotten a very close look at the frenulum? I am seeing posterior tongue ties everywhere lately! Also, sometimes I can't figure out the problem, but if the mom is willing to hang in there with maintaining milk production, doing paced bottle-feeding or whatever alternate feeding method you both agree on, and plenty of skin-to-skin, then tincture of time often solves the problem. Good luck, I am sure you are doing a great job with this mom! Dear Colleagues:I have a client whose baby, I think (from oral exam), has a bubblepalate. Nipples now very sore - only a week old and near term (now 37weeks and 6 lbs 4 oz). Milk exchange seems to be ok. My friend who isher pediatrician referred her to me as one of my first clients. Froma comment she made to me when I announced I was going into practice, Iknow she does not give credence to cranio sacral therapy. And nowwith this baby, I'm wondering, depending how things go, if this mightreally be an option. Does CST really help the palate? Part of theproblem is that I have no experience with it and need to understand itbetter. Are there any "legitimate" references which you would give toa physician to back up your suggestion about using CST for this problem?Thanks for your input. This business can be nervewracking!Betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Thank you, Nikki! I will definitely visit your site. Warmly, Marjorie > > Hello colleagues: > > I have learned to use CST in my lactation practice with fabulous > results, and have shared my experience at various conferences. Always > willing to go to more places! > > I find that CST does wonders for breastfeeding recovery and maternal- > infant rehabilitation. CST can help a mother regain and reaffirm her > commitment to her baby and to breastfeeding. I've seen a torticollis > resolve on my table, with a baby lying s2s on her mother's chest. I > just had the honor of being part of breastfeeding recovery of the most > shattered dyad I've ever worked with, who just a few days ago, at 10 > weeks postpartum, had 7 pain-free breastfeeds in my office over 1 1/2 > hours. > > Finally, I have been able to define CST in such a way that everyone > can easily understand: CST is a scientific approach to the laying on > of hands! > > There is a CST section on my website, www.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com, > if you like. > warmly, > Nikki Lee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Thank you, Nikki! I will definitely visit your site. Warmly, Marjorie > > Hello colleagues: > > I have learned to use CST in my lactation practice with fabulous > results, and have shared my experience at various conferences. Always > willing to go to more places! > > I find that CST does wonders for breastfeeding recovery and maternal- > infant rehabilitation. CST can help a mother regain and reaffirm her > commitment to her baby and to breastfeeding. I've seen a torticollis > resolve on my table, with a baby lying s2s on her mother's chest. I > just had the honor of being part of breastfeeding recovery of the most > shattered dyad I've ever worked with, who just a few days ago, at 10 > weeks postpartum, had 7 pain-free breastfeeds in my office over 1 1/2 > hours. > > Finally, I have been able to define CST in such a way that everyone > can easily understand: CST is a scientific approach to the laying on > of hands! > > There is a CST section on my website, www.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com, > if you like. > warmly, > Nikki Lee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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