Re: Society, economy, and government meets regulation of milk...

[Guest guest]

, nice to hear from a fellow libertarian.

The presumption that some take of assuming the mantle of chains and then "working within the system" to have them removed rather than not allowing them to be placed on in the first place is frightening.

2 decades ago, when I lived in the city, i purchased raw milk NOT KNOWING it was illegal from a backyard operation on he outskirts of the city. It was the difference between being able to drink milk and not. I was breatsfeeding a child who developed horrid colic whenever I drank homo d milk, and did not when i had raw.

This lady had a cow for her own use, and the extra helped provide for others. According to Charlene, I should NOT have purchased, but let her figure out where to dispose of her milk and moved and gotten my own cow. How silly. The laws that prohibit small, personal producer to consumer transactions are just plain wrong.I am willing to concede that the uninformed and easily led general public are best served by a tiered approach, where there are rules which affect sales once the product leaves the producers hands and before it gets into the consumers, but to be so vehemently angry and fearful of small producers is a sad state. It is so reminiscent of the clash between American Obstetrics and the midwifery community. People are NOT going to abandon Home Birth because the doctors scream how unsafe it is and how unfair that is to them. Stats prove otherwise, but despite decades of work there are still midwifes being persecuted because the powers that be have the same attitude that a few people here have exhibited. Is homebirth dead in the water? I think not. The same attitude is exhibited in the reaction to home schooling. The powers that be including the NEA all despise the concept. Yet its is growing, and thankfully progress has been made in creating a more positive legal climate. HOWEVER, if evryone had sat around waiting for "the laws" to be changed several generations of children would have grown up without the benefits of home schooling. And within the movement for civil rights. Should Parks have gone to the back of the bus? Should the Guvment continued to be permitted to treat coloreds as second class without a challenge?

www.MajestyFarm.comNorth Garden, Virginia

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[Guest guest]

Well said . Bravo! I just had that very same discussion about midwifery

and the raw

milk movement with a very nice woman! It was at a conference I was speaking at.

The

parallels she drew were absolutely amazing and I agree wholeheartedly. And the

homeschooling and the Parks thing, etc., all very relevant and all about

peaceful civil

disobedience to unjust laws. Brilliant. You don't say much, but when you

do...boy it is

meaningful. You make it count--I recognize that.

> , nice to hear from a fellow libertarian.

> The presumption that some take of assuming the mantle of chains and then

" working

within the system " to have them removed rather than not allowing them to be

placed on in

the first place is frightening.

[Guest guest]

Bravo .

I would say the same holds for ND & Alternative Practitioners. There are many who should not be allowed to put out a shingle, their background is so minimal. But then, when you find a good one, it's like finding a gold mine. I might add it is the same for those with MD & DO medical licenses, regulated (out of business) or not.

You cannot legislate or regulate Good Practice in any endeavor. We don't have the $$ to police the world, let alone ourselves. Someone always finds the Loophole, or sends substandard materials. In construction, you have to be on top of all this stuff constantly.

I'd like to say all the Regulation we've endured, esp since WW2, has been for our Safety, but mostly it has been to safeguard somebody's Market. How is it that Enron was allowed to practically Bankrupt the state of California with no Blame? And what happened to the Usury laws that we allow 30% credit cards!

D. Rockefeller set some pretty ugly business standards, and we live with his unbridled Influence in Ohio, as well as in much of the country. That boy Really knew how to eliminate the Competition....

---Terry

PS-- Remember we have some wonderful "govn't flunkies" on our List.... so try to be sensitive. I'm sure they're used to this, but... We Love You, so forgive us when we forget about you and "those who Lurk"....lol.

The presumption that some take of assuming the mantle of chains and then "working within the system" to have them removed rather than not allowing them to be placed on in the first place is frightening.

.....It was the difference between being able to drink milk and not. I was breatsfeeding a child who developed horrid colic whenever I drank homo d milk, and did not when i had raw.....This lady had a cow for her own use, and the extra helped provide for others.....

The laws that prohibit small, personal producer to consumer transactions are just plain wrong. I am willing to concede that the uninformed and easily led general public are best served by a tiered approach, where there are rules which affect sales once the product leaves the producers hands and before it gets into the consumers....

reminiscent of the clash between American Obstetrics and the midwifery community. People are NOT going to abandon Home Birth because the doctors scream how unsafe it is and how unfair that is to them. Stats prove otherwise, but despite decades of work there are still midwifes being persecuted because the powers that be have the same attitude that a few people here have exhibited. ......

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

Here are a few questions I hope someone will be able to help me with!

Instead of

> accepting government seals of approval, I prefer to talk to the

> owner, talk to other customers, visit the farm, etc. These

> assurances mean far more to me than what some flunky government

> agent has to say.

May I ask for suggestions as to what to ask about and what to look

for when one visits the farm in order to be able to get a good idea

if their milk is clean? For instance, is there some way for a farmer

to have samples of their milk tested by an independent lab? What

should I look for in methods and/or equipment and equipment

maintenance? How does a city girl tell the difference between a

well-kept farm and a not so well-kept one. (I visited a farm last

week that left me with the general impression of being " dirty " and

disorderly and unorganized, but I was afraid that maybe I'm just not

used to how a real farm should look, or at least one that supplies

raw milk.) I know I may have to rely on my " gut " alot, and this

farmer just didn't leave me with the impression that he would be

real fastidious about the cleanliness of the milking operation, but

what objective things can I try to find out? After reading the

conversation about mastitis and pus in the milk and such, I was

pretty uneasy about my ability to discern if I would be getting

clean milk.

> The fact is, our health and safety is NEVER guaranteed, and least

of

> all by government regulations. No matter how carefully crafted,

> researched, or genuinely in our best interest was the intent (and

> most regulations are none of these things),

Although I haven't entrusted the education of my children to the

government because in part, I don't think they have the best

interests of my children in view like I do, I still have a hard

time figuring out why the gov. would need to be less than truthful

about the safety of milk, raw or pasteurized. What's in it for them

to lie to us about this? Perhaps many of you think this is a no-

brainer, but please just be gentle with me and enlighten me. When

I go to websites that preach the dangerous risks of raw milk, I find

it hard to not believe them. (I'm not sure they are all govt.

organizations either.) I don't know how to sift through all this;

any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Melody

[Guest guest]

I personally believe that the entire regulatory bureaucracy is just a

joke. All of the farmers that I have talked with tell me that

inspection is just a game. First if they get too many infractions

the inspector says that he'll come back later after they had a chance

to " clean things up. " But, they always leave some minor infraction

for the inspector to find because if things look " too good " the

inspector feels compelled to look until he finds something for the

farmer to improve- even if they have to start measuring the exact

distance of the bathroom to see if it is a foot too close or too far

away. This kind of inspection in no way affects the quality or

cleanliness of the milk.

Our state constitution clearly states that farmers have the right to

peddle or directly sell their products to consumers. The state in

it's infinite wisdom has decided to make an example of one farmer who

had the audacity to deliver some of his milk instead of making the

consumers pick it up from the farm. This guy has a full size, grade

A operation. But some of the " big guys " didn't like what he was

doing and have worked against him. Sometimes the law just won't let

you work within it.

Lynn