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Posted
Posted

Jeanne,

Are you the mother who posted to this forum about the pesticides

in your child's school also? Do you know what the cause of Molly's

MCS was? I also suggest you get the Handbook of Pediatric Environmental

Health, which is put out by the American Academy of Pediatrics, to answer

some of your questions.

Best Regards,

Stacey Champion

Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11, 2004

because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

Molly wants to learn.

Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

school cafeteria tables and floors.

Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

per gallon of water.

Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

must meet the following criteria:

1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

City Food Code.

3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

issue for several reasons.

First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs. I

must quickly return to my role as their mother.

Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

nothing else matters! "

Sincerely,

Jeanne R. Hunt

mo_Access@...

FAIR USE NOTICE:

This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been

specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material

available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice

issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law.

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is

distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in

receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your

own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright

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Posted
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The code specifies that sanitizing is required for food-contact surfaces.

It also defines food-contact surfaces as follows:

" (35) " Food-contact surface " means:

(a) A surface of equipment or a utensil with which food normally comes into

contact; or

(B) A surface of equipment or a utensil from which food may drain, drip, or

splash:

(I) Into a food, or

(ii) Onto a surface normally in contact with food. "

My interpretation is that tables and floors are not food-contact surfaces,

because they do not fit the above definition. If indeed these are not

food-contact surfaces, then the use of chlorine bleach is not required. I

think you can make a case for discontinuing this practice.

Of course, everyone knows that floors become unsanitized as soon as someone

walks on them and tables become unsanitized as soon as someone touches them

with unwashed hands.

Norm Gauss

Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11, 2004

because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

Molly wants to learn.

Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

school cafeteria tables and floors.

Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

per gallon of water.

Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

must meet the following criteria:

1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

City Food Code.

3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

issue for several reasons.

First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs. I

must quickly return to my role as their mother.

Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

nothing else matters! "

Sincerely,

Jeanne R. Hunt

mo_Access@...

FAIR USE NOTICE:

This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been

specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material

available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice

issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law.

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is

distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in

receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your

own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright

owner.

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Posted
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Dear Jeanne,

Please contact me regarding Molly's situation. I have a solution to your sanitizing problem that will meet the criteria you state in your post. I would be happy to help you.

I am an expert in the applications of Ultraviolet Germicidal Sanitation. Our process uses no chemicals and sanitizes not only the surfaces in a given room but the air as well thru the use of our Sanitaire Germicidal UV Room Sanitizer. Using this method in the cafeteria and other rooms where Molly spends time will protect her and will not expose her to any chemical sanitizers. This technique is currently used in healthcare settings and many other areas where chemical sanitizing is not practical or possible and it is more effective than any chemical at disinfecting surfaces, objects and room air. You can reach me at the numbers below or on my cell at 732 904-1840. I look forward to sharing this info with you and others from the IAQ group.

Sincerely,

ph K. SchulmanFounder/CEOGold Bond Building Services, Inc. andMobility Solutions, Llc.Corporate Offices:805 Cross St. Suite 4Lakewood, NJ 08701-4099Gold Bond Main Phone: Mobility Solutions Main Phone: Toll Free: 1-877-811-REST (7378)Fax: E-Mail: JSchul6938@... info@...http://www.restassured.com/

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Posted
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Check with the Center for Disease Control and APIC (infection control

practitioners ) for guidelines and with your State Dept of Education for

regulations on whether disinfectants are required. I would guess they are not,

especially not on the floor.Many people, including infection control

practitioners mistakenly assume that disinfection is recommended in many

situations, when it is not.

In my own childrens schools, the teachers do not have the children wash their

hands before they eat (even after recess where they are all over ever surface

and other kids), so disinfecting the table is the least of the problems for

controlling infections!

I had to look into this question as environmental safety director at a large

metropolitan hospital. I found out that in hospitals disinfection of the floors

is NOT necessary, although it is recommended on certain furniture.

Another big problem is that often disinfectants are sprayed (rather than wiped)

which may get more in the air than necessary. Also workers sometimes dont dilute

concentrated solutions properly because of poor training or overzealousness.

I use soap and warm water.I remember from my microbiology days how easily it

washed away the bacteria on my lab slides...

--

Alice Freund

Industrial Hygienist

Mount Sinai School of Medicine

Department of Community and Preventive Medicine

1 Gustave Levy Place

Box 1057

NY, NY 10029

Phone:

Fax:

alice.freund@...

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Jeanne,

There are very few options for food surface sanitizers in the US

Model Food Code. It is generally specified that the products have a

registration from the EPA as a " food surfaces sanizer " . While this

list is may not be all the sanitizers, it is most:

1) Quaternary ammonium - The most common and does not crytalize and

leave spots on the dishes that go through a 190 degree F or more

dish machine.

2) Bleach or sodium hypochorite - the most economical and widely

available.

3) Iodine based sanitizer - very cheap and will cause discoloration

if not used correctly. It will turn proteinaceous material purple

to yellow if the surface was not properly cleaned beforehand. It

also has to be mixed fresh every day and water temperature will

affect the efficacy - hot water is not a good idea. There is little

or no toxicity concerns since a stronger version is a wound cleanser

or first aid product. This is my personal favorite because only the

slackers mess-up the product use. Ecolab makes a very economical

concentrate.

4) Tri-sodium phosphate - I was surprised to see this on the list

of acceptable food surface sanitizers. The product in the hardware

store is not the same since it does not have an EPA mandated label

with directions.

Your local health department should have a list of acceptable active

ingredients. The EPA can tell you who has the registrations. I can

save you a lot of fuss by telling you to go for the iodine based

concentrate from Ecolab.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

gw@...

*****************************************

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the

past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11,

2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's

health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has

with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school

staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs.

I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@y...

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Norm,

You may be correct but very incorrect depending on the opinions of

the local health department. They tend to be more conservative with

children and schools - especially food service operations.

I don't think the floors are subject to sanitization mandated as a

third step under the Food Code but, some will argue table tops are

definately a food contact surface.

A good rule of thumb is:

The health inspector is correct if he treatens to shut down the food

service operation.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobiological Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

gw@...

*********************************************

>

> The code specifies that sanitizing is required for food-contact

surfaces.

> It also defines food-contact surfaces as follows:

>

> " (35) " Food-contact surface " means:

>

> (a) A surface of equipment or a utensil with which food normally

comes into

> contact; or

>

> (B) A surface of equipment or a utensil from which food may drain,

drip, or

> splash:

>

> (I) Into a food, or

>

> (ii) Onto a surface normally in contact with food. "

>

> My interpretation is that tables and floors are not food-contact

surfaces,

> because they do not fit the above definition. If indeed these

are not

> food-contact surfaces, then the use of chlorine bleach is not

required. I

> think you can make a case for discontinuing this practice.

>

> Of course, everyone knows that floors become unsanitized as soon

as someone

> walks on them and tables become unsanitized as soon as someone

touches them

> with unwashed hands.

>

> Norm Gauss

>

> Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

>

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11,

2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs.

I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@y...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not

always been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

> political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and

social justice

> issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

> copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

Copyright Law.

> In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on

this site is

> distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior

interest in

> receiving the included information for research and educational

purposes.

> For more information go to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for

purposes of your

> own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the

copyright

> owner.

>

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Hi,

If the problem excessive use of bactericide compounds is real, it seems nevertheless safe to advise that children (and adults too) doo wash their hands at least before to have a dinner, especially in collective environment such as schools. Same for cleaning tables in cafeterias. Natural soap, without Triclosan or other biocidal chemical is probably the best for everybody (and more economical too !).

But it's true that strong biocides used in soaps, toothpastes and cleaning products may have unexpected negative effects on public health (i) in the selection of super-restistant strends of germs and (ii) in lowering individual immunity (sound evidence exist for e.g. Triclosan to favor cell apoptosis and to alter immunity).

And it would be a non-sense to expect to kill all germs on a floor where people come in with their shoes (it's only usefull in sterile white rooms where special equiments and precautions are necessary). But since dust is vector of several potentially unfriendly compounds able to contaminate indoor air (and not only germs), it seems a good thing to clean floors on a regular basis.

Best regards,

B. Bordenave

-----Message d'origine-----De : afreund222@... Envoyé : vendredi 21 janvier 2005 14:53À : iequality Objet : Re: Elementary School Cafeteria SanitizerCheck with the Center for Disease Control and APIC (infection control practitioners ) for guidelines and with your State Dept of Education for regulations on whether disinfectants are required. I would guess they are not, especially not on the floor.Many people, including infection control practitioners mistakenly assume that disinfection is recommended in many situations, when it is not.In my own childrens schools, the teachers do not have the children wash their hands before they eat (even after recess where they are all over ever surface and other kids), so disinfecting the table is the least of the problems for controlling infections!I had to look into this question as environmental safety director at a large metropolitan hospital. I found out that in hospitals disinfection of the floors is NOT necessary, although it is recommended on certain furniture.Another big problem is that often disinfectants are sprayed (rather than wiped) which may get more in the air than necessary. Also workers sometimes dont dilute concentrated solutions properly because of poor training or overzealousness.I use soap and warm water.I remember from my microbiology days how easily it washed away the bacteria on my lab slides...--Alice FreundIndustrial HygienistMount Sinai School of MedicineDepartment of Community and Preventive Medicine1 Gustave Levy PlaceBox 1057NY, NY 10029Phone: Fax:alice.freund@...

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Joe K,

The food code states a three step process:

1) wash with soap and water

2) rinse with potable water

3) use very hot water (190 degrees F or so) or an EPA registered

sanitizer

This is not practicle for tables. I have never heard of UV lights

or similar in food service operations. You will probably meet some

pretty good resistance on that idea from the local health department

offcials. You would have to light the cafeteria like a Christmas

tree to accomplich the feat. The children would have to wear

sunglasses and sunblock (SPF 30 or better).

I think your products have some good uses but, I can not imagine

where it would work in this scenario. However, if you want to

invest 5 years to get a few sales, go ahead and run into the brick

wall. You won't be the first or last.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington Va 22202

gw@...

***********************************************

> Dear Jeanne,

>

> Please contact me regarding Molly's situation. I have a

solution to your

> sanitizing problem that will meet the criteria you state in your

post. I

> would be happy to help you.

> I am an expert in the applications of Ultraviolet Germicidal

Sanitation. Our

> process uses no chemicals and sanitizes not only the surfaces in a

given room

> but the air as well thru the use of our Sanitaire Germicidal

UV Room

> Sanitizer. Using this method in the cafeteria and other rooms

where Molly spends

> time will protect her and will not expose her to any chemical

sanitizers.

> This technique is currently used in healthcare settings and many

other areas

> where chemical sanitizing is not practical or possible and it is

more effective

> than any chemical at disinfecting surfaces, objects and room air.

You can

> reach me at the numbers below or on my cell at 732 904-1840. I

look forward to

> sharing this info with you and others from the IAQ group.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> ph K. Schulman

> Founder/CEO

> Gold Bond Building Services, Inc. and

> Mobility Solutions, Llc.

> Corporate Offices:

> 805 Cross St. Suite 4

> Lakewood, NJ 08701-4099

> Gold Bond Main Phone:

> Mobility Solutions Main Phone:

> Toll Free: 1-877-811-REST (7378)

> Fax:

> E-Mail: JSchul6938@a...

> info@r...

> http://www.restassured.com/

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Posted
Posted

Wow, what

a mess. I’m sorry you have to go

through this.

The only

thing I could offer up is straight white vinegar. It’s a very mild disinfectant (occasionally used as a

preservative in bakery items, definitely not on par with bleach), has decent

cleansing power, an doesn’t leave a residual that might cause a reaction in

your daughter. It should be

perfectly safe for contact with all types of food surfaces. I would definitely test it first,

however, using sterile swab samples on a test surface before and after washing

it with vinegar and having them analyzed.

Then check the post-wash results against whatever local cleanliness

standards are in place in your area.

Others may

have other ideas.

A. Walsh MS, CIE

-----Original

Message-----

From: mo_access

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005

10:50 AM

To: iequality

Subject: Elementary

School Cafeteria Sanitizer

Would a soap and

water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

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Posted
Posted

ph K. Schulman,

So how does your Sanitaire Germicidal UV Room Sanitizer get the ketchup off the table top?

Sincerely,

Curtis Redington, RS

Environmental Quality Specialist

City of Wichita Dept. of Environmental Health

Wichita, Kansas USA

-----Original Message-----From: JSchul6938@... Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 7:01 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

Dear Jeanne,

Please contact me regarding Molly's situation. I have a solution to your sanitizing problem that will meet the criteria you state in your post. I would be happy to help you.

I am an expert in the applications of Ultraviolet Germicidal Sanitation. Our process uses no chemicals and sanitizes not only the surfaces in a given room but the air as well thru the use of our Sanitaire Germicidal UV Room Sanitizer. Using this method in the cafeteria and other rooms where Molly spends time will protect her and will not expose her to any chemical sanitizers. This technique is currently used in healthcare settings and many other areas where chemical sanitizing is not practical or possible and it is more effective than any chemical at disinfecting surfaces, objects and room air. You can reach me at the numbers below or on my cell at 732 904-1840. I look forward to sharing this info with you and others from the IAQ group.

Sincerely,

ph K. SchulmanFounder/CEOGold Bond Building Services, Inc. andMobility Solutions, Llc.Corporate Offices:805 Cross St. Suite 4Lakewood, NJ 08701-4099Gold Bond Main Phone: Mobility Solutions Main Phone: Toll Free: 1-877-811-REST (7378)Fax: E-Mail: JSchul6938@... info@...http://www.restassured.com/FAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

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Posted
Posted

Jeanne

Although it is not as easy to use as a single solution, many sensitive

persons have been successful using an alternating pair of cleaning

solutions; namely baking soda in water and next time, vinegar in water. For

many of my clients it is important that the vinegar be the cheaper,

commercial kind that is synthesized, rather than fermented. Some react to

the remaining protein when the vinegar is from biological origins.

This seems to work quite well because the solutions are, alternately, basic

then acidic. Few germs can survive both environments. Even when wiped off

carefully, the baking soda tends to stay in small surface cracks. When the

next wipe introduces vinegar, a chemical reaction occurs and the foaming

helps bring deep dirt to the surface.

Since these ingredients are food there should not be a problem with the

authorities.

Jim H. White SSAL

Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11, 2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs. I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

> been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

> material available in our efforts to advance understanding of

> environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific,

> and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use'

> of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

> Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the

> material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have

> expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for

> research and educational purposes. For more information go to:

> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

> copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go

> beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

>

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Posted
Posted

What does eveyone else think of this interpertation? Who would I

contact to see if this is indeed true.

If so, then soap and water would suffice.

Thanks for all of the help.

Jeanne

>

> The code specifies that sanitizing is required for food-contact

surfaces.

> It also defines food-contact surfaces as follows:

>

> " (35) " Food-contact surface " means:

>

> (a) A surface of equipment or a utensil with which food normally

comes into

> contact; or

>

> (B) A surface of equipment or a utensil from which food may drain,

drip, or

> splash:

>

> (I) Into a food, or

>

> (ii) Onto a surface normally in contact with food. "

>

> My interpretation is that tables and floors are not food-contact

surfaces,

> because they do not fit the above definition. If indeed these

are not

> food-contact surfaces, then the use of chlorine bleach is not

required. I

> think you can make a case for discontinuing this practice.

>

> Of course, everyone knows that floors become unsanitized as soon

as someone

> walks on them and tables become unsanitized as soon as someone

touches them

> with unwashed hands.

>

> Norm Gauss

>

> Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

>

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11,

2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs.

I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@y...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not

always been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

> political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and

social justice

> issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

> copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

Copyright Law.

> In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on

this site is

> distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior

interest in

> receiving the included information for research and educational

purposes.

> For more information go to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for

purposes of your

> own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the

copyright

> owner.

>

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Posted
Posted

Yes, I am the same mother. The school is not going to use Roundup

at the schools that Molly attends. They do pretty good on handling

the fragrance free. Now we are working on cleaning products.

I have to wait until an issue arises, and then bring it to the

schools attention.

Jeanne

>

> Jeanne,

>

> Are you the mother who posted to this forum about the pesticides

> in your child's school also? Do you know what the cause of

Molly's

> MCS was? I also suggest you get the Handbook of Pediatric

Environmental

> Health, which is put out by the American Academy of Pediatrics, to

answer

> some of your questions.

>

>

> Best Regards,

> Stacey Champion

>

>

>

>

> Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the

past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11,

2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's

health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has

with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school

staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs.

I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@y...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not

always been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

> political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and

social justice

> issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

> copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

Copyright Law.

> In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on

this site is

> distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior

interest in

> receiving the included information for research and educational

purposes.

> For more information go to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for

purposes of your

> own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the

copyright

> owner.

>

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Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

This is not practicle for tables. I have never heard of UV lights or similar in food service operations. You will probably meet some pretty good resistance on that idea from the local health department offcials. You would have to light the cafeteria like a Christmas tree to accomplich the feat. The children would have to wear sunglasses and sunblock (SPF 30 or better).I think your products have some good uses but, I can not imagine where it would work in this scenario. However, if you want to invest 5 years to get a few sales, go ahead and run into the brick wall. You won't be the first or last.Regards,Greg Weatherman

Greg....I advocate the use of the UV room sanitizers ONLY in unoccupied rooms and for disinfecting pre-cleaned surfaces. Germicidal UV My point is this: one can use mild soap and water to clean gross soils and periodically irradiate a given room with the UV room sanitizer. This will accomplish in many cases a better job of sanitizing surfaces in the room, including tables, walls, floors and ceilings, and including the air in the room at the time, as well, than toxic cleaning agents and will not cause anyone to be sensitized. In a cafeteria setting it would be impractical to try to use it during school hours, but it could be used during the final cleaning of the day after the children are gone. I believe it has a role in other areas of the school, as well...perhaps more practically than in a cafeteria, such as the nurses office, the kitchens and food prep room(s) and the restrooms...to name a few.

Thanks for your thoughts. Your sarcasim does no one much good, though but it does reveal the limits of your imagination.

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Posted
Posted

ph K. Schulman,

So how does your Sanitaire Germicidal UV Room Sanitizer get the ketchup off the table top?

Sincerely,

Curtis Redington, RS

Environmental Quality Specialist

City of Wichita Dept. of Environmental Health

Wichita, Kansas USA

It does not. It is for sanitizing pre-cleaned surfaces and it is most commonly found in healthcare settings and laboratories, etc. HOwever, since the principals of its ability to kill germs on surfaces are sound and have been thoroughly proven in the lab as well as the real world, why not imagine applications where using it could benefit someone like the little girl who cannot stand chemical exposure from cleaning agents. The point is that one can clean with mild soap and water to remove gross soils, and, aided by an appropriate, calculated dose of Germicidal UV, be confident that the germs have been killied as well as, in in many cases better, than with using chemicals. N toxic chemicals needed.

I hope you and my fellow IAQ posters can appreciate what I am trying to get accross. I am not looking to sell anything...I AM looking to oppen some people's eyes to what is possible using today's UV technology.

Joe Schulman

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Posted
Posted

What about a higher grade of peroxide?

As the 3% would not really be that effective, I know poeple who literally

use the 10 and 20 volume that women use on their hair to coean with.

Breaks down into water and 02.

Angel

> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:26:12 -0500

>

> Reply-To: iequality

> To: iequality

> Subject: Re: Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

> Jeanne

> Although it is not as easy to use as a single solution, many sensitive

> persons have been successful using an alternating pair of cleaning

> solutions; namely baking soda in water and next time, vinegar in water.

> For

> many of my clients it is important that the vinegar be the cheaper,

> commercial kind that is synthesized, rather than fermented. Some react to

> the remaining protein when the vinegar is from biological origins.

>

> This seems to work quite well because the solutions are, alternately,

> basic

> then acidic. Few germs can survive both environments. Even when wiped off

> carefully, the baking soda tends to stay in small surface cracks. When

> the

> next wipe introduces vinegar, a chemical reaction occurs and the foaming

> helps bring deep dirt to the surface.

>

> Since these ingredients are food there should not be a problem with the

> authorities.

> Jim H. White SSAL

>

> Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> > unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

> > Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

> >

> > Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11, 2004

> > because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> > deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> > Molly wants to learn.

> >

> > Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> > working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

> >

> > The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> > school cafeteria tables and floors.

> >

> > Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> > per gallon of water.

> >

> > Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

> >

> > Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> > alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> > must meet the following criteria:

> >

> > 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> > 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> > Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> > and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> > City Food Code.

> > 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> > majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> > respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

> >

> > Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

> > issue for several reasons.

> >

> > First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> > condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

> > the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

> > and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> > Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> > removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> > Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> > molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs. I

> > must quickly return to my role as their mother.

> >

> > Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> > Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> > safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> > endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> > discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

> >

> > I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> > nothing else matters! "

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Jeanne R. Hunt

> > mo_Access@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> > This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

> > been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

> > material available in our efforts to advance understanding of

> > environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy,

> scientific,

> > and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair

> use'

> > of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the

> US

> > Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the

> > material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have

> > expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for

> > research and educational purposes. For more information go to:

> > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

> > copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go

> > beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

> >

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Posted
Posted

Jeanne,

Hi. I remembered Molly, so assumed you were the same mom.

First, I applaud your efforts for bringing pesticide exposure

to the attention of your school! Our country is so far behind

when it comes to environmental risks and our children!

I have a son who's almost 6, so I can relate to your concerns.

I've done a ton of educational stuff at his Montessori school,

and the Director is looking for land to build a " green " school

in the future!

I just had a great idea for you! I use Mountain Green all-purpose

cleaner at my house. I buy it from the health food store and use

it for everything. It's biodegradable, contains no EDTA, NTA,

Cocamide DEA or phosphates. It's cruelty free and hypo-allergenic.

I've done some fundraising for the local mission and one time we

needed soap for the homeless people. Many of them live by the river,

so I wanted to make sure it was something natural. I contacted Dr.

Bronner's Soap by email, and told them my spiel. The guy was very cool and

nice and shipped out a bunch of cartons of bottled soap by weeks end.

Sometimes all we have to do is ask!

So... I was thinking, if you were to contact Mountain Green and tell them

Molly' story, maybe they could work out something with her school.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to try! It would look good for them, and maybe

it could even start a trend if you were to get some media exposure and

put out press releases. Good for Molly & the other kids, good for the

environment, good for the company. Everyone would win!

The ingredients of the cleaner I use are: Purified and de-ionized water,

naturally derived surfactants (sourced from fruits and sugar fermentation),

natural vinegar, natural citrus fragrance (orange rind oil), and mild

food-grade preservatives.

It has hardly any odor, minus a slight vinegar/orange smell, but very mild.

Here is the company info:

www.mtngreen.com

1-866-MTNGREEN

I have no ties to this product, other than the fact that I've used it in my

own home for a long time and have been very happy with it!

Good luck & let us know what happens or if I can help in any way!

Best Regards,

Stacey

Stacey Champion

Owner/Consultant

Champion Indoor Environmental Services

PO Box 3332

Cottonwood, AZ 86326

Tel. Fax

sc@...

Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the

past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11,

2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's

health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has

with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school

staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs.

I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@y...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not

always been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

> political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and

social justice

> issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

> copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

Copyright Law.

> In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on

this site is

> distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior

interest in

> receiving the included information for research and educational

purposes.

> For more information go to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for

purposes of your

> own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the

copyright

> owner.

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Since the Food Code is enforced by the Environmental Services Division of

Jefferson City, it seems logical to ask them if this interpretation is

correct.

Norm Gauss

Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

>

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11,

2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs.

I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@y...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not

always been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

> political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and

social justice

> issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

> copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

Copyright Law.

> In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on

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> distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior

interest in

> receiving the included information for research and educational

purposes.

> For more information go to:

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> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for

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> own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the

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Posted
Posted

It seems to me that when striving for cleanliness, the first goal is to

remove foreign material (i.e. deposits of dirt and food debris). Daily

application of soap and water works admirably for this, since the material

is usually not caked on.

Getting rid of unsanitary germs is important, and by removing foreign

material with soap and water, a large percentage of the germs will be

removed. If any remain, then of course, resorting to germicides is called

for. But so far, I see nothing in the code that says germicides are

necessary for tables and floors.

Asking the City Environmental Services Division will either confirm or

refute this interpretation.

Norm Gauss

Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> > unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

> > Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

> >

> > Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11, 2004

> > because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> > deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> > Molly wants to learn.

> >

> > Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> > working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

> >

> > The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> > school cafeteria tables and floors.

> >

> > Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> > per gallon of water.

> >

> > Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

> >

> > Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> > alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> > must meet the following criteria:

> >

> > 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> > 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> > Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> > and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> > City Food Code.

> > 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> > majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> > respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

> >

> > Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

> > issue for several reasons.

> >

> > First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> > condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

> > the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

> > and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> > Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> > removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> > Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> > molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs. I

> > must quickly return to my role as their mother.

> >

> > Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> > Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> > safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> > endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> > discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

> >

> > I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> > nothing else matters! "

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Jeanne R. Hunt

> > mo_Access@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> > This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

> > been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

> > material available in our efforts to advance understanding of

> > environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific,

> > and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use'

> > of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the

US

> > Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the

> > material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have

> > expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for

> > research and educational purposes. For more information go to:

> > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

> > copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go

> > beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

> >

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Posted
Posted

I am crafting a letter to the Jefferson City health department

challenging thier interpertation that a school lunch table is a food

contact surface. Thanks so much for pointing me in this direction.

Can I use your name in the letter and can I use some of your words

below?

Thanks for helping me understand how to address this critical

childrens health issue.

Jeanne

>

> The code specifies that sanitizing is required for food-contact

surfaces.

> It also defines food-contact surfaces as follows:

>

> " (35) " Food-contact surface " means:

>

> (a) A surface of equipment or a utensil with which food normally

comes into

> contact; or

>

> (B) A surface of equipment or a utensil from which food may drain,

drip, or

> splash:

>

> (I) Into a food, or

>

> (ii) Onto a surface normally in contact with food. "

>

> My interpretation is that tables and floors are not food-contact

surfaces,

> because they do not fit the above definition. If indeed these are

not

> food-contact surfaces, then the use of chlorine bleach is not

required. I

> think you can make a case for discontinuing this practice.

>

> Of course, everyone knows that floors become unsanitized as soon as

someone

> walks on them and tables become unsanitized as soon as someone

touches them

> with unwashed hands.

>

> Norm Gauss

>

> Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

>

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11, 2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs. I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@y...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not

always been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

> political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and

social justice

> issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

> copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

Copyright Law.

> In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on

this site is

> distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior

interest in

> receiving the included information for research and educational

purposes.

> For more information go to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes

of your

> own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the

copyright

> owner.

>

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Posted
Posted

Jeanne:

You may use my name in your letter, but I am unable to offer

professional credentials to add clout to your persuasive effort. I have

been active in the field of environmental illness for 25 years, and have

counselled many people with MCS from our former location in Los Angeles. My

standard way of helping people with MCS is to do penetrating analysis before

offering advice, the same methodology which lead me to examine the Food Code

in Jefferson City (thanks to the Internet).

Norman M. Gauss

Environmental Health Association

(former chapter of HEAL)

Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

>

>

>

>

>

> My daughter Molly is an 11 year old 5th grader. Molly has been

> unconscious in pediatric ICU from Status Asthmaticus, in the past.

> Molly has Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

>

> Molly was removed from school December 2003 through October 11, 2004

> because of her health condition. Molly felt isolated and mourned

> deeply for her return to school. Molly wants to be in school.

> Molly wants to learn.

>

> Molly's health is again declining. The school district and I are

> working together to address Molly's health concerns as they arise.

>

> The current issue that we are working on is the sanitization of

> school cafeteria tables and floors.

>

> Currently the school uses a solution of ½ to 1 teaspoon of bleach

> per gallon of water.

>

> Even at that dilution, Molly's health is challenged by the bleach.

>

> Molly's school district has asked that I lead the search for an

> alternative for sanitizing the tables and floors. The alternative

> must meet the following criteria:

>

> 1. It must be safe for food contact surfaces.

> 2. It must meet the food code standards as stated in the

> Jefferson City Missouri Food Code 4-703.11 Hot water and Chemicals

> and meet the guidelines as per 1-201.10(B) (85) of the Jefferson

> City Food Code.

> 3. It must be a product that is suitable for use around the

> majority of children with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, frail

> respiratory system, or frail immune systems.

>

> Time is of the essence in resolving this critical children's health

> issue for several reasons.

>

> First and foremost, Molly's potentially life threatening health

> condition is currently deteriorating with the exposure she has with

> the use of toxic agents such as chlorine. Second, the school staff

> and I are concerned that we quickly resolve this issue so that

> Molly's education is not disrupted again. Molly will have to be

> removed from school if this is not resolved quickly. Finally, as

> Molly's mother, I must be able to focus my time and energy on

> molding my children's lives and tending to their childhood needs. I

> must quickly return to my role as their mother.

>

> Would a soap and water solution meet the criteria? Would Hydrogen

> Peroxide meet the criteria? If so, what are the criteria for the

> safe use of the product? If not, can you please assist me in this

> endeavor? If not, can you help me identify who could assist me in

> discovering the best solution for the above listed criteria?

>

> I quote the American Lung Association: " When you can't breathe,

> nothing else matters! "

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jeanne R. Hunt

> mo_Access@y...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not

always been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

> political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and

social justice

> issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

> copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

Copyright Law.

> In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on

this site is

> distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior

interest in

> receiving the included information for research and educational

purposes.

> For more information go to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes

of your

> own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the

copyright

> owner.

>

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Posted
Posted

Joe Schulman,

Well said. Thanks for your clarification.

Curtis Redington

-----Original Message-----From: JSchul6938@... Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 6:04 PMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

ph K. Schulman,

So how does your Sanitaire Germicidal UV Room Sanitizer get the ketchup off the table top?

Sincerely,

Curtis Redington, RS

Environmental Quality Specialist

City of Wichita Dept. of Environmental Health

Wichita, Kansas USA

It does not. It is for sanitizing pre-cleaned surfaces and it is most commonly found in healthcare settings and laboratories, etc. HOwever, since the principals of its ability to kill germs on surfaces are sound and have been thoroughly proven in the lab as well as the real world, why not imagine applications where using it could benefit someone like the little girl who cannot stand chemical exposure from cleaning agents. The point is that one can clean with mild soap and water to remove gross soils, and, aided by an appropriate, calculated dose of Germicidal UV, be confident that the germs have been killied as well as, in in many cases better, than with using chemicals. N toxic chemicals needed.

I hope you and my fellow IAQ posters can appreciate what I am trying to get accross. I am not looking to sell anything...I AM looking to oppen some people's eyes to what is possible using today's UV technology.

Joe SchulmanFAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

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Posted
Posted

Very Well Stated Joe.

I have asked this group to comment on the technology of Germicidal UV -C and Photohydroionization (PHI) in the past. I strongly support the technology. And Yes I agree that the technology can provide some relief to many that suffer from chemical, bacterial and, virus exposure sensitivities. In some fashion, we all do.

I have a background in analytical chemistry. I have conducted numerous field tests on this technology and its affect on Indoor Air Quality. I have studied the reduction of Microbial Volatile Organics and Chlorinated solvents using Summa Canisters. Mold spores, dander,skin. Tested! I have tested for specific Bacteria and Virus in both treated and non treated environments utilizing swabs and particulate filters. I have monitored Ozone output, and numerous other chemicals for exposure levels. All of this before I installed it in my own home. All of my tests have provided positive results.

PHI technology is approved by both the FDA and USDA for food preparation, packaging and handling because of the affects on bacterial contamination within a controlled environment.

I urge this group to delve further into this technology and not just throw it into the "Ozone Generator" classification as in the past. The strides the Wastewater Treatment community have made in developing UV for Drinking Water applications are now considered "State of the Art". Air treatment applications are just as significant if not more so.

Seeing is believing, and I believe!

Jon T. Laliberte

Halcyontec.com

RE: Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

Joe Schulman,

Well said. Thanks for your clarification.

Curtis Redington

-----Original Message-----From: JSchul6938@... Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 6:04 PMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Elementary School Cafeteria Sanitizer

ph K. Schulman,

So how does your Sanitaire Germicidal UV Room Sanitizer get the ketchup off the table top?

Sincerely,

Curtis Redington, RS

Environmental Quality Specialist

City of Wichita Dept. of Environmental Health

Wichita, Kansas USA

It does not. It is for sanitizing pre-cleaned surfaces and it is most commonly found in healthcare settings and laboratories, etc. HOwever, since the principals of its ability to kill germs on surfaces are sound and have been thoroughly proven in the lab as well as the real world, why not imagine applications where using it could benefit someone like the little girl who cannot stand chemical exposure from cleaning agents. The point is that one can clean with mild soap and water to remove gross soils, and, aided by an appropriate, calculated dose of Germicidal UV, be confident that the germs have been killied as well as, in in many cases better, than with using chemicals. N toxic chemicals needed.

I hope you and my fellow IAQ posters can appreciate what I am trying to get accross. I am not looking to sell anything...I AM looking to oppen some people's eyes to what is possible using today's UV technology.

Joe SchulmanFAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. FAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

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Posted
Posted

WOW!!!! I want to thank everyone for thier comments.

I have contacted the City Environemtal Directer, who is in charge of

enforcing the food code. At fist the director told me that there is

no way the chlorine could be a problem. She said it was the same as

the dilution in drinking water. I told her to use that then. lol.

She became very quite and then argumentative.

She believes that hydrogen peroxide and water is not acceptable.

She also states that the cafeteria tables are a food contact

surface.

She has been very hostile when I challenge her off the top of her

head answer.

I called our state health department. They said they would work with

the city, but would not have discussions with me.

The FDA has refered me back to the state health department.

I am not sure how to break out of this. I have to have some good

arguments, as I get close to contacting the Mayor or City Council

members.

I am trying to educate myself so I can put up a good argument. The

City is not use to mothers questioning thier interpertation, so I

have to be prepared.

I am not sure about the hydrogen peroxide yet. It seems to me that

would work and is in the food code. I may be mis-interperting though.

I do not think that any citrus based product is a good solution, as

that would put the problem from my child to another child. I do not

want any kids to suffer. Especially when the process is suppose to

make it safe and sanitary for the children so they do not get sick.

Soap and water has worked for years. Soap and water is in Molly's

504 accommdation plan. Using bleach or any other product actually

is against her accommodation plan. But I am not sure which takes

precedence. Section 504 of the REhabilitation act or the Federal

Food Code

>

> Since the Food Code is enforced by the Environmental Services

Division of

> Jefferson City, it seems logical to ask them if this

interpretation is

> correct.

>

> Norm Gauss

>

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