Re: Digest Number 163

[Guest guest]

Here's one: Anyone ever deal with hydraulic fluid saturating concrete and offgassing for about 18 months? even after 'cleanup'?

The odor is unbelievably strong.

ArmourArmour Applied Science, LLCCleveland, OH

[Guest guest]

Hydraulic fluid and fuel oil both contain a number of Semi-Volatile Organic Compounds (SVOC), with an array of vapor pressures and emission rates. They also have the ability to move quite readily through some forms of concrete, so that the concrete appears to act as a sponge. Cleaning the surface just increases the driving force for deeply-absorbed SVOC to return to the surface. It is an 'almost no win' situation and the only thing that I know of, if the saturation has gone on for weeks or months, is to remove the concrete. Maybe others have better news.

Jim H. White SSAL

Re: Digest Number 163

Here's one: Anyone ever deal with hydraulic fluid saturating concrete and offgassing for about 18 months? even after 'cleanup'?

The odor is unbelievably strong.

ArmourArmour Applied Science, LLCCleveland, OHFAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

Here's

one: Anyone ever deal with hydraulic fluid saturating concrete and

offgassing for about 18 months? even after 'cleanup'?

The odor is unbelievably strong.

This situation would be about as bad as the one locally where fuel oil

leaked into soil around the house. Both are light oils and would

penetrate readily and deeply into the concrete. I know of no way to

get it out other than removal of the concrete. In the local case,

the soil had to be removed.

************************************************************

K. Klein, PE ME, MBA

Indoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc.

PO Box 7

Bethel, OH 45106-0007

VOICE:

FAX: (with notice)

E-mail: mkklein68@...

************************************************************

[Guest guest]

There are a number of companies selling bacteria-based bio-remediation products that I have heard are highly effective at remediating fuel oil in concrete and soil. I have not personally used them, nor do I know whether they would be equally effective on hydraulic fluid.

Tim Toburen

Re: Digest Number 163

Here's one: Anyone ever deal with hydraulic fluid saturating concrete and offgassing for about 18 months? even after 'cleanup'? The odor is unbelievably strong.This situation would be about as bad as the one locally where fuel oil leaked into soil around the house. Both are light oils and would penetrate readily and deeply into the concrete. I know of no way to get it out other than removal of the concrete. In the local case, the soil had to be removed.

************************************************************ K. Klein, PE ME, MBAIndoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc.PO Box 7Bethel, OH 45106-0007VOICE: FAX: (with notice)E-mail: mkklein68@...************************************************************ FAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

,

The hydraulic fluid you are having a problem with must be of a low

molecular weight. Any particular reason why it has an odor.? Most

closed hydraulic systems use oil that only presents a minor odor when

aerosolized. So there must be something special about your problem

that needs more research. What caused the release?

Relative to controlling the problem. (Assuming removal of the concrete

is too expensive or difficult)

What is the ventilation rate in the space. Can this be improved?

What is the floor covered with? It is possible to put down a tile

floor over the concrete ? Or epoxy coat the concrete? These will slow

down the evaporation rate to where the odor should not be perceptible.

Any idea how much oil was absorbed?

BOB

[Guest guest]

>Here's one: Anyone ever deal with hydraulic fluid saturating concrete

and

>offgassing for about 18 months? even after 'cleanup'?

> The odor is unbelievably strong.

There are many more options than tearing the slab out. They may not be

practical, but let's see:

- Sealants might work. Might not, since there's such a mix of

compounds, any sealant is likely to allow some of them to get through,

and potentially the sealant compounds could react to others and lead to

worse odors. Before application, I'd want to test it on a chunk of the

concrete removed from the space, possibly in a " mason jar: test: coat

each one, , .

Another option: increase ventilation. Ideally, do to positively

pressurize the space, pushing air downward. I know, it's been open all

summer, but you can't afford to heat that much air.

Also: consider sub-slab depressurization (i.e., radon) as part of the

solution. Remove everything below the slab, change the pressure

gradient in the slab. Probably not a complete solution, but could

certainly help, and if there's gravel under the slab, you can use one

small fan to pull as much as 50,000 square foot of slab, if memory

serves.

Removing the slab is the certain solution -- but indeed, if the soil is

saturated, reinstall the slab with a radon system to keep it from going

through.

Alternately, remove the people. Gotta do it anyway to replace the slab,

right?

Lots of luck, !

Henry Slack, P.E.

U.S. EPA Region 4

Indoor Air Program

For more assistance, try EPA's Web site, www.epa.gov/iaq

or call EPA's Indoor Air Quality Information Clearinghouse

. Experts are available 9-5 M-F

[Guest guest]

It is possible to put down a tile floor over the concrete ?

Don't think that will work. Tried it once a long time ago, The residues made the glue dissolve. and the vct tile slid around like it was on snot.

Lee

[Guest guest]

Easiest thing I ever did. Just make sure you use the

proper primer.

JHH

>

> It is possible to put down a tile

> floor over the concrete ?

>

>

> Don't think that will work. Tried it once a long

> time ago, The residues made

> the glue dissolve. and the vct tile slid around like

> it was on snot.

> Lee

>

=====

Central Coast Environmental Consulting

PO Box 1858

Nipomo, CA 93444

fax

The office number is unavailable at this time.

Our primary staff is deployed with the US Army overseas.

Please feel free to fax or use e-mail to stay in contact.

[Guest guest]

The following have sometimes been successful for me.

Instal plastic cover sheet dimpled such as Injectadry use for drying

wood flooring. Create a negative pressure by installing a vacuum pump.

Use heated make up air from furthest point. This will assist in bake out

of VOCs. The drying of water flooded concrete can be expected to take 1

month per inch of thickness so it's a long term solution. The heating,

drying may only move the oil down hot t0o cold movement, but it may

allow the application of a impregnation, you could try a Silane or

hydrolised lithium quartz. Another coating could be a two pack epoxy. I

believe all systems may fail. I have tried using bacteria to eat the oil

out but this is a very long winded solution which is not always

successful. Good Luck

Jeff Charlton

In London

Re: Digest Number 163

>Here's one: Anyone ever deal with hydraulic fluid saturating concrete

and

>offgassing for about 18 months? even after 'cleanup'?

> The odor is unbelievably strong.

There are many more options than tearing the slab out. They may not be

practical, but let's see:

- Sealants might work. Might not, since there's such a mix of

compounds, any sealant is likely to allow some of them to get through,

and potentially the sealant compounds could react to others and lead to

worse odors. Before application, I'd want to test it on a chunk of the

concrete removed from the space, possibly in a " mason jar: test: coat

each one, , .

Another option: increase ventilation. Ideally, do to positively

pressurize the space, pushing air downward. I know, it's been open all

summer, but you can't afford to heat that much air.

Also: consider sub-slab depressurization (i.e., radon) as part of the

solution. Remove everything below the slab, change the pressure

gradient in the slab. Probably not a complete solution, but could

certainly help, and if there's gravel under the slab, you can use one

small fan to pull as much as 50,000 square foot of slab, if memory

serves.

Removing the slab is the certain solution -- but indeed, if the soil is

saturated, reinstall the slab with a radon system to keep it from going

through.

Alternately, remove the people. Gotta do it anyway to replace the slab,

right?

Lots of luck, !

Henry Slack, P.E.

U.S. EPA Region 4

Indoor Air Program

For more assistance, try EPA's Web site, www.epa.gov/iaq

or call EPA's Indoor Air Quality Information Clearinghouse

. Experts are available 9-5 M-F

FAIR USE NOTICE:

This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material available in our efforts to advance understanding of

environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific,

and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use'

of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the

US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the

material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have

expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for

research and educational purposes. For more information go to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go

beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

The following have sometimes been successful for me.

Instal plastic cover sheet dimpled such as Injectadry use for drying

wood flooring. Create a negative pressure by installing a vacuum pump.

Use heated make up air from furthest point. This will assist in bake out

of VOCs. The drying of water flooded concrete can be expected to take 1

month per inch of thickness so it's a long term solution. The heating,

drying may only move the oil down hot t0o cold movement, but it may

allow the application of a impregnation, you could try a Silane or

hydrolised lithium quartz. Another coating could be a two pack epoxy. I

believe all systems may fail. I have tried using bacteria to eat the oil

out but this is a very long winded solution which is not always

successful. Good Luck

Jeff Charlton

In London

Re: Digest Number 163

>Here's one: Anyone ever deal with hydraulic fluid saturating concrete

and

>offgassing for about 18 months? even after 'cleanup'?

> The odor is unbelievably strong.

There are many more options than tearing the slab out. They may not be

practical, but let's see:

- Sealants might work. Might not, since there's such a mix of

compounds, any sealant is likely to allow some of them to get through,

and potentially the sealant compounds could react to others and lead to

worse odors. Before application, I'd want to test it on a chunk of the

concrete removed from the space, possibly in a " mason jar: test: coat

each one, , .

Another option: increase ventilation. Ideally, do to positively

pressurize the space, pushing air downward. I know, it's been open all

summer, but you can't afford to heat that much air.

Also: consider sub-slab depressurization (i.e., radon) as part of the

solution. Remove everything below the slab, change the pressure

gradient in the slab. Probably not a complete solution, but could

certainly help, and if there's gravel under the slab, you can use one

small fan to pull as much as 50,000 square foot of slab, if memory

serves.

Removing the slab is the certain solution -- but indeed, if the soil is

saturated, reinstall the slab with a radon system to keep it from going

through.

Alternately, remove the people. Gotta do it anyway to replace the slab,

right?

Lots of luck, !

Henry Slack, P.E.

U.S. EPA Region 4

Indoor Air Program

For more assistance, try EPA's Web site, www.epa.gov/iaq

or call EPA's Indoor Air Quality Information Clearinghouse

. Experts are available 9-5 M-F

FAIR USE NOTICE:

This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material available in our efforts to advance understanding of

environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific,

and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use'

of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the

US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the

material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have

expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for

research and educational purposes. For more information go to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go

beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.