Re: Going fine one week, nothing the next?

[Guest guest]

Is the Vitamin K group another Yahoo Group? This whole oxalates thing

is really perplexing to me. Can something *cause* this problem in an

otherwise normal kid? And do oxalates then cause bowel problems? Or

is it more like the bowel problems causing oxalate problems?

:dizzy:

> >

> > Since I'm still new to the group, I'll give some background again

> > first, before my questions.

> >

> > My daughter started withholding her bowel movements just over a

> year

> > ago, at age 2.5 (so age 3.5 now). Lately we've had some relative

> > success with a daily regimen of 2 spoons of Milk of Magnesia, 1

> spoon

> > of Mineral Oil, and 2 spoons of an herbal formula. This treatment

> > often ends up with some leakage problems (very mud-like messes in

> the

> > underwear before she gets to the potty), but it does seem to

> relieve

> > the holding problem. But it doesn't seem consistent.

> >

> > Two weeks ago, she was doing GREAT. She'd suddenly feel the urge

> to

> > go, get frantic, and run to the potty. Sometimes her underwear

> would

> > be a bit messy, but sometimes not. She was going about 3 times a

> > week, all on her own. During this time, we also started Fruit-eze

> and

> > the PlumSmart drink. Fruit-eze was on a daily basis at breakfast,

> and

> > PlumSmart was not daily, but has been nearly daily for the past

> week.

> > But last Thursday, the 5th, was the last time she went. And for

> > those 2 weeks that she was doing so well, the stool was really too

> > soft, like soft-serve ice cream, almost (forgive the graphics!!).

> A

> > while after we started the Fruit-eze, we also slightly backed off

> of

> > her other meds, with the hope of obtaining slightly firmer poops.

> We

> > were basically doing 1 spoon instead of 2 for milk of magnesia, 1

> > spoon instead of 2 of her herbal formula, and every other day for

> the

> > mineral oil. But she ended up holding it for a whole week. Today

> I

> > gave her an enema to get things going again, because she was

> showing

> > obvious signs of holding it back (running to a corner of the room,

> > crouching on her bum with her knees held tightly together, and

> looking

> > very concerned/frantic).

> >

> > After the enema, she did get out a little log, which, while very

> heavy

> > and firm, was at least not segmented like we've seen in the past.

> But

> > in the liquid that came out, and on her bum, there was also a lot

> of

> > black " sand " type of material. I've seen this before, and I've

> always

> > thought that perhaps it was coming from the herbal formula, which

> is

> > also very dark in color. But after reading on this board, I'm

> > wondering if it might be oxalate crystals. She also tends to

> > frequently have painful vulva/labia, so that she nearly cries if I

> > wipe her. It will look shiny (almost wet-looking) and red when it

> is

> > painful like this.

> >

> > She has never been on Miralax or glycolax. Is it possible that she

> > might have oxalate issues anyway? I know practically nothing about

> > oxalates. How can I learn more?

> >

> > She also has a lot of behavioral/mood problems when she's starting

> to

> > get backed up again. Easily upset. Over/hyperactive. Physically

> > rough (but playful) with her brother and myself and DH. One of the

> > things she does frequently during the day is run over to me or DH,

> say

> > " Hug!! " and not go back to what she was doing until she gets that

> hug,

> > no matter how small (a pat on the back will often suffice).

> >

> > I'm just feeling a little bit at a loss about what I can do to have

> > her bowel movements be more consistent. Is the fruit-eze too much

> for

> > her and could it have backed her up? I was (and maybe still am!)

> > feeling so confident that it would help immensely, especially

> combined

> > with other meds and plum juice. Or did backing off the other meds

> > even a little bit possibly cause it? Could it be something totally

> > unrelated?

> >

> > Thinking out loud...Her last bowel movement was Thursday. We did

> have

> > a very full weekend after that - playgroup followed by long

> outings on

> > Friday. A busy day followed by a birthday party on Saturday.

> Easter

> > Sunday, which wasn't busy, but did include candy and church.

> Another

> > birthday party and at a friend's house all day on Monday. Could

> the

> > constant activity have caused her to put off bowel movement that

> she

> > might otherwise would have had, and then that cause too much

> firmness

> > for her to pass easily next time she felt the urge, and so she just

> > started holding it again?

> >

> > I spent so much of the past year at home because I was afraid to

> take

> > her out of the house with the way she was, constantly crouching and

> > going into fits. What if too much activity is a problem for her?

> > Sigh...I don't want to be house-bound forever!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Read the oxalate information on Great Plains site (search for the

link with my ID). There are two schools of thought with oxalates --

one is diet, the other is supplements. The low oxalate diet removes

so many healthy greeen leafy vegetables, I prefer to remove the

highest oxalate items and use VSL#3 and Vitamin K2 -- with A, E and

D.

Here's a link to the Vitamin K group -- please read the files

section for the protocol and reasoning behind it.

VitaminK-subscribe

> > >

> > > Since I'm still new to the group, I'll give some background

again

> > > first, before my questions.

> > >

> > > My daughter started withholding her bowel movements just over

a

> > year

> > > ago, at age 2.5 (so age 3.5 now). Lately we've had some

relative

> > > success with a daily regimen of 2 spoons of Milk of Magnesia,

1

> > spoon

> > > of Mineral Oil, and 2 spoons of an herbal formula. This

treatment

> > > often ends up with some leakage problems (very mud-like messes

in

> > the

> > > underwear before she gets to the potty), but it does seem to

> > relieve

> > > the holding problem. But it doesn't seem consistent.

> > >

> > > Two weeks ago, she was doing GREAT. She'd suddenly feel the

urge

> > to

> > > go, get frantic, and run to the potty. Sometimes her

underwear

> > would

> > > be a bit messy, but sometimes not. She was going about 3

times a

> > > week, all on her own. During this time, we also started Fruit-

eze

> > and

> > > the PlumSmart drink. Fruit-eze was on a daily basis at

breakfast,

> > and

> > > PlumSmart was not daily, but has been nearly daily for the

past

> > week.

> > > But last Thursday, the 5th, was the last time she went. And

for

> > > those 2 weeks that she was doing so well, the stool was really

too

> > > soft, like soft-serve ice cream, almost (forgive the

graphics!!).

> > A

> > > while after we started the Fruit-eze, we also slightly backed

off

> > of

> > > her other meds, with the hope of obtaining slightly firmer

poops.

> > We

> > > were basically doing 1 spoon instead of 2 for milk of

magnesia, 1

> > > spoon instead of 2 of her herbal formula, and every other day

for

> > the

> > > mineral oil. But she ended up holding it for a whole week.

Today

> > I

> > > gave her an enema to get things going again, because she was

> > showing

> > > obvious signs of holding it back (running to a corner of the

room,

> > > crouching on her bum with her knees held tightly together, and

> > looking

> > > very concerned/frantic).

> > >

> > > After the enema, she did get out a little log, which, while

very

> > heavy

> > > and firm, was at least not segmented like we've seen in the

past.

> > But

> > > in the liquid that came out, and on her bum, there was also a

lot

> > of

> > > black " sand " type of material. I've seen this before, and

I've

> > always

> > > thought that perhaps it was coming from the herbal formula,

which

> > is

> > > also very dark in color. But after reading on this board, I'm

> > > wondering if it might be oxalate crystals. She also tends to

> > > frequently have painful vulva/labia, so that she nearly cries

if I

> > > wipe her. It will look shiny (almost wet-looking) and red

when it

> > is

> > > painful like this.

> > >

> > > She has never been on Miralax or glycolax. Is it possible

that she

> > > might have oxalate issues anyway? I know practically nothing

about

> > > oxalates. How can I learn more?

> > >

> > > She also has a lot of behavioral/mood problems when she's

starting

> > to

> > > get backed up again. Easily upset. Over/hyperactive.

Physically

> > > rough (but playful) with her brother and myself and DH. One

of the

> > > things she does frequently during the day is run over to me or

DH,

> > say

> > > " Hug!! " and not go back to what she was doing until she gets

that

> > hug,

> > > no matter how small (a pat on the back will often suffice).

> > >

> > > I'm just feeling a little bit at a loss about what I can do to

have

> > > her bowel movements be more consistent. Is the fruit-eze too

much

> > for

> > > her and could it have backed her up? I was (and maybe still

am!)

> > > feeling so confident that it would help immensely, especially

> > combined

> > > with other meds and plum juice. Or did backing off the other

meds

> > > even a little bit possibly cause it? Could it be something

totally

> > > unrelated?

> > >

> > > Thinking out loud...Her last bowel movement was Thursday. We

did

> > have

> > > a very full weekend after that - playgroup followed by long

> > outings on

> > > Friday. A busy day followed by a birthday party on Saturday.

> > Easter

> > > Sunday, which wasn't busy, but did include candy and church.

> > Another

> > > birthday party and at a friend's house all day on Monday.

Could

> > the

> > > constant activity have caused her to put off bowel movement

that

> > she

> > > might otherwise would have had, and then that cause too much

> > firmness

> > > for her to pass easily next time she felt the urge, and so she

just

> > > started holding it again?

> > >

> > > I spent so much of the past year at home because I was afraid

to

> > take

> > > her out of the house with the way she was, constantly

crouching and

> > > going into fits. What if too much activity is a problem for

her?

> > > Sigh...I don't want to be house-bound forever!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Don't foget the VSL#3. It's a probiotic that increases the lactic

acid which break down oxalic acid that is bound to calcium in a the

calcium oxalate crystals. This is also the reason why supplementing

with calcium is not necessary during this time. The calcium that was

bound up is now released, and hopefully with the assistance of the

Vitamin K can be placed into the bones where it should be!

> > >

> > > Since I'm still new to the group, I'll give some background

again

> > > first, before my questions.

> > >

> > > My daughter started withholding her bowel movements just over a

> > year

> > > ago, at age 2.5 (so age 3.5 now). Lately we've had some relative

> > > success with a daily regimen of 2 spoons of Milk of Magnesia, 1

> > spoon

> > > of Mineral Oil, and 2 spoons of an herbal formula. This

treatment

> > > often ends up with some leakage problems (very mud-like messes

in

> > the

> > > underwear before she gets to the potty), but it does seem to

> > relieve

> > > the holding problem. But it doesn't seem consistent.

> > >

> > > Two weeks ago, she was doing GREAT. She'd suddenly feel the

urge

> > to

> > > go, get frantic, and run to the potty. Sometimes her underwear

> > would

> > > be a bit messy, but sometimes not. She was going about 3 times a

> > > week, all on her own. During this time, we also started Fruit-

eze

> > and

> > > the PlumSmart drink. Fruit-eze was on a daily basis at

breakfast,

> > and

> > > PlumSmart was not daily, but has been nearly daily for the past

> > week.

> > > But last Thursday, the 5th, was the last time she went. And for

> > > those 2 weeks that she was doing so well, the stool was really

too

> > > soft, like soft-serve ice cream, almost (forgive the

graphics!!).

> > A

> > > while after we started the Fruit-eze, we also slightly backed

off

> > of

> > > her other meds, with the hope of obtaining slightly firmer

poops.

> > We

> > > were basically doing 1 spoon instead of 2 for milk of magnesia,

1

> > > spoon instead of 2 of her herbal formula, and every other day

for

> > the

> > > mineral oil. But she ended up holding it for a whole week.

Today

> > I

> > > gave her an enema to get things going again, because she was

> > showing

> > > obvious signs of holding it back (running to a corner of the

room,

> > > crouching on her bum with her knees held tightly together, and

> > looking

> > > very concerned/frantic).

> > >

> > > After the enema, she did get out a little log, which, while

very

> > heavy

> > > and firm, was at least not segmented like we've seen in the

past.

> > But

> > > in the liquid that came out, and on her bum, there was also a

lot

> > of

> > > black " sand " type of material. I've seen this before, and I've

> > always

> > > thought that perhaps it was coming from the herbal formula,

which

> > is

> > > also very dark in color. But after reading on this board, I'm

> > > wondering if it might be oxalate crystals. She also tends to

> > > frequently have painful vulva/labia, so that she nearly cries

if I

> > > wipe her. It will look shiny (almost wet-looking) and red when

it

> > is

> > > painful like this.

> > >

> > > She has never been on Miralax or glycolax. Is it possible that

she

> > > might have oxalate issues anyway? I know practically nothing

about

> > > oxalates. How can I learn more?

> > >

> > > She also has a lot of behavioral/mood problems when she's

starting

> > to

> > > get backed up again. Easily upset. Over/hyperactive. Physically

> > > rough (but playful) with her brother and myself and DH. One of

the

> > > things she does frequently during the day is run over to me or

DH,

> > say

> > > " Hug!! " and not go back to what she was doing until she gets

that

> > hug,

> > > no matter how small (a pat on the back will often suffice).

> > >

> > > I'm just feeling a little bit at a loss about what I can do to

have

> > > her bowel movements be more consistent. Is the fruit-eze too

much

> > for

> > > her and could it have backed her up? I was (and maybe still am!)

> > > feeling so confident that it would help immensely, especially

> > combined

> > > with other meds and plum juice. Or did backing off the other

meds

> > > even a little bit possibly cause it? Could it be something

totally

> > > unrelated?

> > >

> > > Thinking out loud...Her last bowel movement was Thursday. We

did

> > have

> > > a very full weekend after that - playgroup followed by long

> > outings on

> > > Friday. A busy day followed by a birthday party on Saturday.

> > Easter

> > > Sunday, which wasn't busy, but did include candy and church.

> > Another

> > > birthday party and at a friend's house all day on Monday. Could

> > the

> > > constant activity have caused her to put off bowel movement

that

> > she

> > > might otherwise would have had, and then that cause too much

> > firmness

> > > for her to pass easily next time she felt the urge, and so she

just

> > > started holding it again?

> > >

> > > I spent so much of the past year at home because I was afraid

to

> > take

> > > her out of the house with the way she was, constantly crouching

and

> > > going into fits. What if too much activity is a problem for

her?

> > > Sigh...I don't want to be house-bound forever!

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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