Re: Clabbered milk/clabber/whey...?

July 16, 2004

Mining this vein of thought...

Clabbering naturally turns even better with time. I do this rather than Freeze over the Winter. I stock up, put in a sheltered place in my cold garage, and just shake up when I want to drink that gallon. Possibly adding some *gasp* White Sugar if I don't like the taste. Some of the best Natural Buttermilk I ever "made" came towards Spring, and needed no sugar.

There is honestly never Any Reason to throw RawMilk down the drain unless forced to by the physical presence of "Revenuers". One Hero in Canada (Toronto region)... go Maple Leafs... when raided asked them to throw the milk to the Pigs, at least, and they kindly did so.

All these Whey Drink Recipes I desperately need because I was having explosive episodes with my methods, or just plain Flops. So this is a Warning for all rank Amateurs to Brewing, like myself.

You can use Whey for Plant Food, and even for an Enzymated Stain Remover, when it turns to your disliking it. (These discovered Hints may give you an idea how badly I need your advice on this topic...lol.)

Soured Liquid Whey can also be used to pickle/ferment Vegetables, which I manage to do quite well.... and No One Gets Hurt.

--Terry

Re: "Clabbered milk"/"clabber"...?

Hi Tom, I not one of those you beseech, but I am a list-mate. Your quotes are fun.

Clabbered milk is any raw milk left out at room temp to culture itself with its own innate microbes. I do it all the time with left over skim milk, since I prefer cream to milk in my diet, and give it to my dog who loves it. It works with whole milk and skim milk. Just leave it out until it sets like yogurt. Time depends on temperature. Usually takes about 2-3 days. If you leave it out longer the milk proteins seperate from the whey. So there's even more fun to be had. The wonders of raw dairy never cease.

Your goat story was great.

Thanks for all your contributions,

Tonio

July 16, 2004

Many thanks, Tonio and Terry, for the info! :-)

Okay, now here I really reveal my " newbie " status... are we sure of

getting *positive* microbes, just kind of leaving it out to ferment

naturally? I understand about yogurt cultures and kefir grains, but

what (if any) is the chance of getting something nasty in there

through " wild " fermentation? A silly fear, perhaps, but as I say, I'm

still pretty new at this whole raw dairy thing.

And how would one actually do it? Capped tightly? Capped loosely?

Covered with a towel? Refrigerated? On the counter? Or what?

Inquiring minds want to know......! ;-)

Thanks again,

Tom

--

Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the

object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women.

Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?

-- Luther

-------------------------------------------------------------------

H. Harbold P.O. Box 1537

tharbold@... Westminster, MD 21158

Outdoorguy_32@... http://www.geocities.com/Tom_in_MD

-------------------------------------------------------------------

July 16, 2004

Hi Tom,

To answer your first question, it all goes back to the quality of your raw milk.

If it is grass

fed and strong in it's pathogenic inhibitors, such as nicin, lactoperoxidase,

lactoferrin, and

TiO2, then the clabbering process will be a beneficial one. Harmful pathogens

usually

cannot compete with all the good microbes in grass fed raw milk. There's so

many good

ones that it just overwhelms the bad strays that may have found their way into

the milk.

The good bacteria are the ones making the milk clabber in the first place, and

on the

bacterial level, to make a gel, it must be in the trillions or

more...uncountable probably. I

would not worry about bad microbes at all, as long as the milk is from clean,

healthy grass

fed cows. Confinement dairy milk is another thing altogether. That I have less

sure about.

Secondly, the way to make clabbered milk is VERY simple. What you are making is

basically " curds and whey " or farmer's cheese or cottage cheese. Basically, i

let my raw

milk sit out in a fairly warm (not cold) place for 3 to 4 days, lightly covered

with something

plastic or metal. Don't use a paper towel or cloth because invariably it will

sag down into

the bowl and soak up your cream. Then after 4 days or so, when I see enough

whey

through the glass bowl, I will take it out, slice a knife through it several

times both ways,

plop that into a cheesecloth and let it drain for a couple of hours. The

resulting clear

liquid is whey, and the curds are still in the bag. Salted or unsalted, you are

good to go.

> Many thanks, Tonio and Terry, for the info! :-)

>

> Okay, now here I really reveal my " newbie " status... are we sure of

> getting *positive* microbes, just kind of leaving it out to ferment

> naturally? I understand about yogurt cultures and kefir grains, but

> what (if any) is the chance of getting something nasty in there

> through " wild " fermentation? A silly fear, perhaps, but as I say, I'm

> still pretty new at this whole raw dairy thing.

>

> And how would one actually do it? Capped tightly? Capped loosely?

> Covered with a towel? Refrigerated? On the counter? Or what?

> Inquiring minds want to know......! ;-)

>

> Thanks again,

>

> Tom

July 16, 2004

Terry,

I must say you are far out. Pun intented. I'll have to try that, purely in the name of science at the very least.

Do you set it at room temp until it clabbers and then cold store it? Or???

Tonio

Mining this vein of thought...

Clabbering naturally turns even better with time. I do this rather than Freeze over the Winter. I stock up, put in a sheltered place in my cold garage, and just shake up when I want to drink that gallon. Possibly adding some *gasp* White Sugar if I don't like the taste. Some of the best Natural Buttermilk I ever "made" came towards Spring, and needed no sugar.

July 16, 2004

all utensils that comes in contact with the milk at any stage.. should be

made of glass or stainless steel or enamel lined. During cheese making, milk

becomes acidid, and if aluminum or cast iron pots re used metallic salts

will be taken up intothe curds. This would give the curds an unpleasant

flavor and could be potentiall dangerous to eat.... Everything must be

spotless clean. Unclean and unsterile conditions can spark a war between the

good guys and the bad guys.

Whey cheeses.. there are a variety of cheeses that can be made from whey.

) is the chance of getting something nasty in there through " wild "

fermentation

yeast and coliform bacteria

charlene

>

>Reply-To: RawDairy

>To: RawDairy

>Subject: Re: " Clabbered milk " / " clabber/whey " ...?

>Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:11:20 -0400

>

>Many thanks, Tonio and Terry, for the info! :-)

>

>Okay, now here I really reveal my " newbie " status... are we sure of

>getting *positive* microbes, just kind of leaving it out to ferment

>naturally? I understand about yogurt cultures and kefir grains, but

>what (if any) is the chance of getting something nasty in there

>through " wild " fermentation? A silly fear, perhaps, but as I say, I'm

>still pretty new at this whole raw dairy thing.

>

>And how would one actually do it? Capped tightly? Capped loosely?

>Covered with a towel? Refrigerated? On the counter? Or what?

>Inquiring minds want to know......! ;-)

>

>Thanks again,

>

>Tom

>

>--

>

> Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the

> object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women.

> Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?

> -- Luther

>-------------------------------------------------------------------

> H. Harbold P.O. Box 1537

> tharbold@... Westminster, MD 21158

> Outdoorguy_32@... http://www.geocities.com/Tom_in_MD

>-------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

>Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

July 17, 2004

Nah. You can , but there's no reason to unless you want it to Clabber sooner rather than later, for some reason.

All Raw Milk is Alive and the Cool Temps just slow things down. After my experiment this past Winter, I believe it tastes better this way, sort of like a slow-rise bread.

Re: "Clabbered milk"/"clabber/whey"...?

Terry,

I must say you are far out. Pun intented. I'll have to try that, purely in the name of science at the very least.

Do you set it at room temp until it clabbers and then cold store it? Or???

Tonio

Mining this vein of thought...

Clabbering naturally turns even better with time. I do this rather than Freeze over the Winter. I stock up, put in a sheltered place in my cold garage, and just shake up when I want to drink that gallon. Possibly adding some *gasp* White Sugar if I don't like the taste. Some of the best Natural Buttermilk I ever "made" came towards Spring, and needed no sugar.PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

July 17, 2004

Having Joann (brilliant lifetime dairy cow owner & author of " Keeping

a Family Cow " ) who is 75 yrs old, had 8 healthy successful children,

assure me,

IT WON'T HURT YOU

(if and only if it is raw milk clabber from your own healthy cow or

good clean raw milk source)

.... GOT ME through the first taste. Then, it was good. I am now

very healthy, better than before, breathing better, running better

etc.

I make raw milk clabber, cottage cheese, yogurt, ice cream all the

time now.

Taste DELIGHTS.

Do not let the stupid Ninny thinking of a superficial generation get

to you.

July 18, 2004

Starlene,

I don't heat my goat milk at all, just leave it until it floats on the whey

(usually about 1-1/2 days) and then strain through a cloth covered colander.

It is not curdy, but more like a cross between sour cream and cream cheese

with a similar rich flavor.

Meg

>

> I made cottage cheese with this morning's yield of goat's milk. I think I

> didn't raise the temperature slowly enough... while the curds were in the

> whey they looked exactly like cottage cheese, until I attempted to strain

> and rinse them when they turned into one huge clump of curd. The temp was

> only raised to 110°F. At what temp does raw milk become less nutritious?

>

> I thought for sure my older son would turn up his nose at it, but to my

> surprise he ate at least 1.5 cups of it. We also had sourdough toast and

> tomato slices.

>

> Mmmmm.

> Starlene

>

July 18, 2004

Starlene,

I don't heat my goat milk at all, just leave it until it floats on the whey

(usually about 1-1/2 days) and then strain through a cloth covered colander.

It is not curdy, but more like a cross between sour cream and cream cheese

with a similar rich flavor.

Meg

>

> I made cottage cheese with this morning's yield of goat's milk. I think I

> didn't raise the temperature slowly enough... while the curds were in the

> whey they looked exactly like cottage cheese, until I attempted to strain

> and rinse them when they turned into one huge clump of curd. The temp was

> only raised to 110°F. At what temp does raw milk become less nutritious?

>

> I thought for sure my older son would turn up his nose at it, but to my

> surprise he ate at least 1.5 cups of it. We also had sourdough toast and

> tomato slices.

>

> Mmmmm.

> Starlene

>

July 18, 2004

Hi Starlene,

The way you get up your nerve to try (not drink) clabbered milk is to

be ready to spit it out if you don't like it. That's what I do with

" iffy " foods. Also when I refer to totally grassfed raw milk I am

referring to cows. Goats are browsers, not grazers and they are

different. Your goats sound like they eat beautifully well for goats.

They also would most definitely have safe, clean, healthy milk.

Clabbered milk is more of a solid, like cheese, than a liquid, so you

don't drink it. The yeasty smell is just a by-prouct of the

fermentation, and it is harmless. The clabbered cow's milk aka curds

and whey, cottage cheese, farmer's cheese, to me tastes slightly sour,

like plain yogurt, but not rotten and putrid like pasteurized milk. It

is a lovely taste. Not sure about goat's milk. I know there are many

goat farmers on this list who have probably clabbered their own milk

and can attest to it. And with regards to the sour cream disaster

(that was you right? can't remember) any cheese making is an art,

that's why they are called " artisan cheese makers. " There are

variables and it takes skill to get it right. Although I will say that

old-fashioned, raw (not heated) cottage cheese is the easiest to

make--as you just leave it out then drain it through a cheesecloth bag.

Not a lot of skill involved there. HA!

As far as food poisoning and throwing up--sure, people would be afraid

of getting sick from it--the first time they have it. I was. But I

was scared of fp the first time I drank raw milk too. We are very

freaked out about germs in our culture. But here's the irony of our

immune system with regards to fp. The more pathogens you expose

yourself to in your life, the more likely you are to build up

resistance to them. And the less likely you are to get sick from al

those cooked foods at your Sunday pot luck. That is why clabber,

yogurt, and kefir are so good, as they help expose you to a wide

spectrum of microbes, and build up strength in your gut. Slightly

dirty children do not get sick as often as pristinely clean,

antibacterially cleaned children, yes that seems to be the case. See,

baby horses, baby cows, and baby humans are " mouthy " and put things in

their mouths like toys, fingers, and dirt for a reason. Yes, it is fun

to play and it helps them experiment and experience and feel the world

around them, but our Creator put it there for another purpose also. To

help them become exposed to pathogens early in life, so they can build

up their immunities. It's a good thing.

Anyway, hope this helps.

On Jul 18, 2004, at 1:59 AM, RawDairy wrote:

> First of all, how do people get up the nerve to drink " clabbered

> milk " ? I

> have never cared much for buttermilk, which I assume clabbered milk

> must

> taste similar to. ??

>

> Secondly, our goats are fed alfalfa hay (they won't touch bermuda

> grass hay,

> and prefer to eat trees and bushes when we browse them), and grain

> for the

> milkers. How would one know if the milk will clabber properly?

>

> I have been running a test on one doe's milk -- basically what one

> does to

> make clabbered milk. Put some milk in a jar and place it in one of

> the

> cupboards for a few days. It does " clabber " up, but I don't know if

> I could

> bring myself to try it. I do notice that it has a yeasty smell to

> it (we do

> a lot of baking so there are probably millions of yeast spores

> living in the

> air) which is different than the way store bought milk smells when

> the same

> thing is done with it. Store bought milk smells rotten.

>

> But back to my first question. Aren't people afraid of getting food

> poisoning? I hate throwing up more than almost any illness and am

> rather

> careful about what I eat, in order to prevent stomach upsets (I mean

> I try

> to cool food within a certain period of time, won't eat food that is

> more

> than 4-5 days old in the fridge, etc.).

>

> Thanks,

> Starlene

>

July 18, 2004