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Asperger's/Chris

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Hello....Since you mentioned Aspergers, I wanted to ask a

question...is it possible to have a " mild " case of Aspergers? My

son has a lot of socialization issues according to the experts, and

he gets so hurt (feelings) all the time. Part of the problem I am

told, is he is exceptionally bright, so he is very aware he is

different from other kids, and detects changes in attitudes easily.

(He has a high average IQ, and his speech and vocabulary are at an 8

year old level, although he has just turned 5. I'm sure part of that

is his older brother (10) talking all the time, and the fact I've

never talked baby talk to either of them). He suffers from a low

self esteem as well, which makes things more difficult. As far as

the Asperger's, the neuro seems to think he has signs, but isn't

sure. He doesn't look at people, seems very detached, and when he's

done something bad, doesn't have any remorse. His feelings are hurt

when I'm angry or upset with him though, and eventually, when he is

comfortable with others, he will show eye contact and connect. I am

just so confused!

Antoniette

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Hi Antoniette,

Only have a moment now (at work) but will respond more fully later

(if my computer at home will accommodate me! still freezing up a

lot).

But, yes, you can have a " mild " case. And with Aspergers or High-

Functioning Autism a person can be very gifted or at the other end

(gifted, above average, average, below). I included the HFA since,

depending on who is doing the evaluating, some professionals see it

as the same, others see it as separate....controversy there at times.

Kids can even make such progress that they can outgrow the diagnosis

also, it will no longer " fit. "

PDD, NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified)

is a common diagnosis when a child doesn't seem to quite fit on an

exact spot of the autism spectrum but shows traits.

Hope something above made sense (and is mostly correct!) as I've got

to finish up here at work and go home to second shift. :) I hope I

can respond better later tonight/tomorrow!

> Hello....Since you mentioned Aspergers, I wanted to ask a

> question...is it possible to have a " mild " case of Aspergers? My

> son has a lot of socialization issues according to the experts, and

> he gets so hurt (feelings) all the time. Part of the problem I am

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I hope this doesn't just add to the confusion, but there's a disability

called nonverbal learning disorder in which kids have much higher verbal

skills than performance skills. My ds sort of fits the profile but doesn't

have the diagnosis. It has features similar to Aspergers. There's a book I

found just generally excellent about raising kids with differences which is

supposed to be to specifically address NVLD called _Bridging the Gap_ by

Rondalyn Varney Whitney which is such a great book. (dare I post a really

long link? If you spell her name correctly you can find her at Amazon.com,

but remember no " h " in Rondalyn.)

> (He has a high average IQ, and his speech and vocabulary are at an 8

> year old level, although he has just turned 5. I'm sure part of that

> is his older brother (10) talking all the time, and the fact I've

> never talked baby talk to either of them).

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Hi,

Yeah, Nonverbal Learning Disorder (NLD or NVLD, I've seen both), was

something I looked at for also since it is similar to

Aspergers. I need to go back and read about it again.

When trying to find out what diagnosis fits your child, it would be

so nice if all professional were knowledgeable about all things!

I took to a center that specializes in autism. I asked about

NLD while I was there and they said that if it were NLD then they

couldn't diagnose it (meaning I guess that they weren't familiar

enough with it?) and I'd have to take him somewhere else for an NLD

eval. But he fit the criteria and they diagnosed as

HFA/Aspergers. In another yahoo group I'm in for HFA/Aspergers, some

of the kids are diagnosed with both - AS and NLD. Confusing to me!

Plus in yet another group I belong to in which there are a lot of

parents of AS kids, the OCD subject came up - OCD as opposed to the

same type behaviors in AS/autistic kids since they display obsessive

type behaviors, etc. It's been an " interesting " discussion so far!

Christie, do you know what might distinguish AS vs NLD - is it the

verbal vs performance?

> I hope this doesn't just add to the confusion, but there's a

disability

> called nonverbal learning disorder in which kids have much higher

verbal

> skills than performance skills. My ds sort of fits the profile but

doesn't

> have the diagnosis. It has features similar to Aspergers. There's

a book I

> found just generally excellent about raising kids with differences

which is

> supposed to be to specifically address NVLD called _Bridging the

Gap_ by

> Rondalyn Varney Whitney which is such a great book. (dare I post a

really

> long link? If you spell her name correctly you can find her at

Amazon.com,

> but remember no " h " in Rondalyn.)

>

> > (He has a high average IQ, and his speech and vocabulary are at

an 8

> > year old level, although he has just turned 5. I'm sure part of

that

> > is his older brother (10) talking all the time, and the fact I've

> > never talked baby talk to either of them).

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A few weeks ago I snagged a copy of the DSM-IV on ebay for a great price. You

could try the same or use the library for a copy and look up the various

diagnosis you can think of and see if your child fits the criteria.

Then also make copies of these so you can re check in six months or so. I know

there are websites of organizations that post the actual criteria on their

websites, so maybe a google search would work for finding them.

I did that last year when I thought my son had Tourettes. I had no idea that

PICA is listed there as well, so I brought it with me to court when I was

fighting the ex over visitation with kids.

Bonnie

=============

wrote:

Hi,

Yeah, Nonverbal Learning Disorder (NLD or NVLD, I've seen both), was

something I looked at for also since it is similar to

Aspergers. I need to go back and read about it again.

When trying to find out what diagnosis fits your child, it would be

so nice if all professional were knowledgeable about all things!

I took to a center that specializes in autism. I asked about

NLD while I was there and they said that if it were NLD then they

couldn't diagnose it (meaning I guess that they weren't familiar

enough with it?) and I'd have to take him somewhere else for an NLD

eval. But he fit the criteria and they diagnosed as

HFA/Aspergers. In another yahoo group I'm in for HFA/Aspergers, some

of the kids are diagnosed with both - AS and NLD. Confusing to me!

Plus in yet another group I belong to in which there are a lot of

parents of AS kids, the OCD subject came up - OCD as opposed to the

same type behaviors in AS/autistic kids since they display obsessive

type behaviors, etc. It's been an " interesting " discussion so far!

Christie, do you know what might distinguish AS vs NLD - is it the

verbal vs performance?

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I forgot I had a window open at some new site I found and turns out they have

the criteria for several disorders on their site!

http://www.firstsigns.org/pages/physician_resources/tools_criteria_asperger.html

http://www.firstsigns.org/pages/physician_resources/tools_dsmIV.html#autism

http://www.firstsigns.org/pages/physician_resources/tools_dsmIV.html

Bonnie

==================

wrote:

Hi,

Yeah, Nonverbal Learning Disorder (NLD or NVLD, I've seen both), was

something I looked at for also since it is similar to

Aspergers. I need to go back and read about it again.

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Hi again, Antoniette!

Where you wrote: He doesn't look at people, seems very detached, and

when he's done something bad, doesn't have any remorse. His feelings

are hurt when I'm angry or upset with him though, and eventually,

when he is comfortable with others, he will show eye contact and

connect.

That certainly does seem to be some Aspergers traits. Socialization

is a problem with . The pragmatic give-and-take of

conversation. He's fine (well almost) with family but awkward

socially. And it's not just not knowing what to say, it's what is

actually " said. " Just doesn't fit. also is bad about eye

contact but there are AS kids who aren't. I have worked with

some on looking " at " a person or at least towards their face.

is a remorseful type (so doesn't fit there!) but, yes, not

showing remorse has been written as a trait. However, your son does

detect the changes in attitudes so that is a plus!

So it does get confusing - fits here, doesn't fit there.... But as

one parent wrote me and I repeat it now: when you've met one person

with AS, you've met ONE person with AS. They're not all the same.

I feel like saying that about OCD at times since has had a

lot of very weird compulsions with OCD that certainly weren't in any

book I could find or heard of here! Not on the typical list.

A diagnosis is usually needed to get the proper interventions,

therapy, etc. But so long as you know/learn what will work best for

him (as in if he needs a routine, needs to be warned in advance about

schedule changes or time to leave for example) then you can go ahead

and implement them at home, see what you can do about the

school/classroom (advise the teacher what works best and hopefully

have a helpful teacher), then you'll see improvement.

I know of a child who did great at school (autistic child). At home

it was terrible. But at school he was fine because he had his

structure and routine to each day. School knew what was needed for

him. He listened and behaved better to the teachers & aides than to

mom. It was sad because there was a plan for mom to follow at home

too, she just wouldn't implement it; or if she did try, she probably

didn't try long enough to make it work since change doesn't happen

overnight!

Anyway, as I said in an earlier note, yes you can be " mild. " And you

can just show traits but not " have it. " And some kids can make such

progress that they no longer fit the diagnosis in later years. Not

that they've necessarily overcome " all " but that they don't fit all

the criteria. I think with a true AS person, there will always be a

difference from the " norm " but with language skills and social

skills, etc., there can be a lot of progress made too.

Did I confuse you even more?? :) I know I rambled back & forth a

bit! Feel free to email me privately if you like!

> Hello....Since you mentioned Aspergers, I wanted to ask a

> question...is it possible to have a " mild " case of Aspergers? My

> son has a lot of socialization issues according to the experts, and

> he gets so hurt (feelings) all the time. Part of the problem I am

> told, is he is exceptionally bright, so he is very aware he is

> different from other kids, and detects changes in attitudes

easily.

> (He has a high average IQ, and his speech and vocabulary are at an

8

> year old level, although he has just turned 5. I'm sure part of

that

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Thanks Bonnie,

I put them in my favorites folder! Nice site.

> I forgot I had a window open at some new site I found and turns out

they have the criteria for several disorders on their site!

>

>

http://www.firstsigns.org/pages/physician_resources/tools_criteria_asp

erger.html

>

>

http://www.firstsigns.org/pages/physician_resources/tools_dsmIV.html#a

utism

>

> http://www.firstsigns.org/pages/physician_resources/tools_dsmIV.html

>

> Bonnie

>

> ==================

>

>

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>

> When trying to find out what diagnosis fits your child, it would be

> so nice if all professional were knowledgeable about all things!

I'm not absolutely sure, but I don't think NLD is in the DSM-IV. I think

it's more of an educational diagnosis.

> I took to a center that specializes in autism. I asked about

> NLD while I was there and they said that if it were NLD then they

> couldn't diagnose it (meaning I guess that they weren't familiar

> enough with it?) and I'd have to take him somewhere else for an NLD

> eval. But he fit the criteria and they diagnosed as

> HFA/Aspergers. In another yahoo group I'm in for HFA/Aspergers, some

> of the kids are diagnosed with both - AS and NLD. Confusing to me!

>

> Plus in yet another group I belong to in which there are a lot of

> parents of AS kids, the OCD subject came up - OCD as opposed to the

> same type behaviors in AS/autistic kids since they display obsessive

> type behaviors, etc. It's been an " interesting " discussion so far!

Well, and Tourette's is closely related to OCD, but a lot of the parents of

kids I " talk " to online with TS have the big verbal/nonverbal split and some

Aspie behaviors ...

>

> Christie, do you know what might distinguish AS vs NLD - is it the

> verbal vs performance?

>

>

I think you're right -- Here's a link about NLD from Packer's site.

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/foss.htm I seem to remember Rondalyn Varney

saying nonverbal skills are a relative strength for AS kids. Reading this

description of NLD it sounds like my ds, but I've read others that sound

nothing like him. Christie

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