RE: Dangers of experimentation with KT-- why the concerns

July 21, 2006

Nirinjan, what an excellent write-up! Thanks for taking

the time and trouble. Much appreciated!

I bottom-post it again, just in case someone missed it.

kombuchaly,

Margret:-)

In message you wrote:

> Greetings All KT Brewers,

>

> Just wished to respond to the remarks on commercial

> brewers...

>

> I do not think most commercial brewers are posting

> 'just to sell their products', but, are truly

> concerned because they have seen some of the dangers

> of what is out there, more so than most people have.

>

> When I had posted about getting a 'pure' culture, I

> was not implying that it be from a commercial source

> only.

>

> There are a lot of good sources out there for

> kombucha from friends, family, or a commercial source.

> In fact, we encourage people to buy local and support

> local food sources.

>

> However, there are others who do not have a complete

> understanding of the chemistry behind culturing of

> fermented foods and this is where the dangers lie.

> An example, is brewing KT in metal or lead ceramic

> vessels and becoming poisoned by the lead or other

> items leaching into the KT. Someone that has an

> understanding of fermented or cultured foods would

> never consider using such containers or utensils, even

> if it looks pretty.

>

> I simply wished for the person to question how the

> KT they are receiving was cared for and if the

> traditional instructions/recipe are followed (keeping

> the pH correct, providing the right food source for

> the bacteria, correct sugars for the yeast, etc.) Such

> as, if it was brewed with sugar and tea or something

> total out of the normal food source for kombucha, such

> as raw fruits with no tea at all.

>

> As with any cultured food product, whether it be

> kombucha, kimchi, miso, soy sauce, etc., there are

> steps and ingredients that are to be followed to

> insure safety and quality of the finished product. As

> when making soy sauce ( I have a nice batch that has

> been sitting for 6 months now, only 6 more to go!),

> the process is to be followed get obtain the desired

> results in the end.

>

> If I was feeling crazy or experimental one day and

> felt like adding fruits to make a 'flavored' soy sauce

> the end result could be far from the intended results.

> In fact, the results could be deadly. Surely, the

> end result could no longer be called soy sauce in its

> traditional form.

>

> Now with Kombucha, when following the traditional

> recipe, the likely hood of contamination is very

> small. It is unlikely to become contaminated with

> unfriendly bacteria if the tea broth has a

> sufficiently high sucrose content (approximately 10+

> percent sugar), making it a naturally inhospitable

> environment. Furthermore, the tea — with its high

> acidity, alcohol content and antibiotics makes

> bacterial contamination even less probable.

>

> However, this is for following a traditional recipe

> of sugar & tea! Any changes from this can increase

> the chances of contamination or adulteration of the

> kombucha cultures. " Experiments " should be limited to

> the type of tea used (white, green, black, and a few

> herbal plants) and a limited number of sugars (cane,

> white, etc.)

> Items such as commercial flavored teas (high oil

> content) or unpasteurized fruit juices should not be

> used when making kombucha.

> Of course these may be added just before bottling and

> will work fine.

>

> Furthermore, with the complex associations between

> these multiple organisms, it is possible that other

> bacteria and yeast species may join in the symbiosis

> with unpredictable effects. The further one strays

> from the traditional forms/recipe the higher the

> chance of unpredictable results.

>

> Again, this is my main concern with people

> experimenting, to far, with the kombucha cultures.

> Remember, once the kombucha is finished it brewing

> cycle and ready to be bottled you can add about

> anything you wish. By doing it in this manner, one

> keeps their kombucha culture strain pure and still are

> able to add extra flavor to the finished product.

>

> One should know the source of the strain they

> receive and if it was cared for in the traditional

> manner. If not, can the end result still be considered

> kombucha?

>

> Have enough of the standard bacteria and yeast

> survived to keep the KT culture healthy and safe?

>

> This are questions one should ask of the person they

> are receiving their culture from, whatever, that

> source may be.

>

> Blessings,

--

+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Minstrel@...

<)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

http://www.lamblion.com/

+---------------------------------------------------------------+

The name of Yahweh is a strong tower; the righteous run to him

and are safe. (Proverbs 18:1)

July 21, 2006

Ok, I am confused. It happens easily. How much sugar should go into a

gallon of tea? I started with 1.5 cups. Some people said no, 1 cup, so I

have been using a heaping cup. Is this not acceptable?

Patty

Dangers of experimentation with KT-- why the concerns

Greetings All KT Brewers,

Just wished to respond to the remarks on commercial

brewers...

I do not think most commercial brewers are posting

'just to sell their products', but, are truly

concerned because they have seen some of the dangers

of what is out there, more so than most people have.

When I had posted about getting a 'pure' culture, I

was not implying that it be from a commercial source

only.

There are a lot of good sources out there for

kombucha from friends, family, or a commercial source.

In fact, we encourage people to buy local and support

local food sources.

However, there are others who do not have a complete

understanding of the chemistry behind culturing of

fermented foods and this is where the dangers lie.

An example, is brewing KT in metal or lead ceramic

vessels and becoming poisoned by the lead or other

items leaching into the KT. Someone that has an

understanding of fermented or cultured foods would

never consider using such containers or utensils, even

if it looks pretty.

I simply wished for the person to question how the

KT they are receiving was cared for and if the

traditional instructions/recipe are followed (keeping

the pH correct, providing the right food source for

the bacteria, correct sugars for the yeast, etc.) Such

as, if it was brewed with sugar and tea or something

total out of the normal food source for kombucha, such

as raw fruits with no tea at all.

As with any cultured food product, whether it be

kombucha, kimchi, miso, soy sauce, etc., there are

steps and ingredients that are to be followed to

insure safety and quality of the finished product. As

when making soy sauce ( I have a nice batch that has

been sitting for 6 months now, only 6 more to go!),

the process is to be followed get obtain the desired

results in the end.

If I was feeling crazy or experimental one day and

felt like adding fruits to make a 'flavored' soy sauce

the end result could be far from the intended results.

In fact, the results could be deadly. Surely, the

end result could no longer be called soy sauce in its

traditional form.

Now with Kombucha, when following the traditional

recipe, the likely hood of contamination is very

small. It is unlikely to become contaminated with

unfriendly bacteria if the tea broth has a

sufficiently high sucrose content (approximately 10+

percent sugar), making it a naturally inhospitable

environment. Furthermore, the tea - with its high

acidity, alcohol content and antibiotics makes

bacterial contamination even less probable.

However, this is for following a traditional recipe

of sugar & tea! Any changes from this can increase

the chances of contamination or adulteration of the

kombucha cultures. " Experiments " should be limited to

the type of tea used (white, green, black, and a few

herbal plants) and a limited number of sugars (cane,

white, etc.)

Items such as commercial flavored teas (high oil

content) or unpasteurized fruit juices should not be

used when making kombucha.

Of course these may be added just before bottling and

will work fine.

Furthermore, with the complex associations between

these multiple organisms, it is possible that other

bacteria and yeast species may join in the symbiosis

with unpredictable effects. The further one strays

from the traditional forms/recipe the higher the

chance of unpredictable results.

Again, this is my main concern with people

experimenting, to far, with the kombucha cultures.

Remember, once the kombucha is finished it brewing

cycle and ready to be bottled you can add about

anything you wish. By doing it in this manner, one

keeps their kombucha culture strain pure and still are

able to add extra flavor to the finished product.

One should know the source of the strain they

receive and if it was cared for in the traditional

manner. If not, can the end result still be considered

kombucha?

Have enough of the standard bacteria and yeast

survived to keep the KT culture healthy and safe?

This are questions one should ask of the person they

are receiving their culture from, whatever, that

source may be.

Blessings,

Nirinjan

July 22, 2006

I think the article was going for minimum 10% sugar. As long as you don't

mind a stronger vinegar taste as well as a longer fermentation time, go

ahead and put more sugar.

-Lana

>

> Ok, I am confused. It happens easily. How much sugar should go into a

> gallon of tea? I started with 1.5 cups. Some people said no, 1 cup, so I

> have been using a heaping cup. Is this not acceptable?

> Patty

>

July 22, 2006

You misunderstand me. I like it better with less sugar but I am reading some

of these statements like maybe I am supposed to use more.

Now I am also confused. Are there many people getting major complications

due to use of KT?

Patty

Re: Dangers of experimentation with KT-- why the concerns

I think the article was going for minimum 10% sugar. As long as you don't

mind a stronger vinegar taste as well as a longer fermentation time, go

ahead and put more sugar.

-Lana

>

> Ok, I am confused. It happens easily. How much sugar should go into a

> gallon of tea? I started with 1.5 cups. Some people said no, 1 cup, so I

> have been using a heaping cup. Is this not acceptable?

> Patty

>

July 23, 2006

>You misunderstand me. I like it better with less sugar but I am reading some

>of these statements like maybe I am supposed to use more.

No. 1 cup per 1-gal jar of brew (which is about 3 quarts of actual KT) is

fine. Some people use more, but 1 cup is valid. More sugar probably makes

a KT with more " body " but people need to make and drink the KT they are

comfortable with and that tastes good to them. Our individual tastes for

KT often change over time.

>Now I am also confused. Are there many people getting major complications

>due to use of KT?

>Patty

No, there are not people with major or even minor complications due to the

use of KT. Anyone telling you so has some kind of agenda that is not in

your best interest. Please allow yourself to not be confused on this issue.

The only thing that I have ever heard is when people have detoxification

symptoms. This may be a skin rash or a headache, or other things. These

are because the body is taking in good nutrients and being therefore

stimulated to get rid of the garbage it was trying to work with. Detox

symptoms are temporary and usually can be avoided altogether by starting

with very small amounts (even a tablespoon) and slowly ramping up the

amount. Also, drinking a lot of water is extremely important as clear

water is needed to wash the baddies out of the body (which thus alleviates

the detox symptom).

Here's the thing about people who are licensed health providers, whether

they be Western M.D.s or acupuncturists or herbal practitioners or

bodyworkers or whatever. First, they can lose their license, so they will

tend to be very careful to not offend the people who license them. We know

this is true of medical doctors who reject anything that they didn't learn

in medical school, but we know that much of what they learn in medical

school, such as, " KT is dangerous " , is completely false. What is harder to

understand is an alternative practitioner being affected by the same

syndrome, but it does happen.

Secondly, licensed practitioners make a living by treating people with

problems, even if they are the most alternative practitioner in the world

they still make a living, make money, from people's illnesses and from lack

of information about optimal nutrition, etc. As a result, the desire to

retain their own power and authority needs to be taken into account. I

have known alt practitioners who have no authority complex, but I've known

plenty who do. Knowing when to give someone authority and when not to is

the key to taking control and responsibility for one's own health. Without

taking control of one's health, it doesn't matter how good a treatment one

gets, one will not be in as good of health. It's just the way the universe

works.

Make no mistake. My primary health practitioner is a licensed

acupuncturist and naturopath who is highly trained and is legally able to

prescribe pharmaceuticals here in the state of CA. So, I do have people I

go to for healthcare. But, he personally admits he is weirded out by

kombucha. So, wonderful as he is, I still retain the right to make my own

health choices and I engage with KT freely. He himself told me, when I saw

him for the first time since starting KT, that my energy levels were

astounding him because of where they'd been when he'd last treated me (it

had been about 8 months). The big change in my life was KT. And, over the

winter when my supply was so poor, my energy levels deteriorated

noticeably. I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis (hypothyroid) and fibromyalgia.

Let me repeat. Kombucha is a food. Let your body be your guide.

What KT does is provide the body with a range of important nutrients that

it uses to build health. The nutrients are used by the body in its own

order of priority, the assumption is that it uses the nutrients the place

they are first most needed, and then over time for other things. The

difference between a drug and a food is that a drug dictates to the body

what to do, whereas a food simply provides the body with nutrients to heal

itself and build health. KT is a food.

Do not let anyone be an authority over you in the ingestion of this

food. Believe me, your body recognizes KT and will let you know what it

needs. KT has been being cultured for thousands of years, long before

there were medical authorities. If it had negative effects on human

reproduction or human health, it would have been stamped out by the human

tribes themselves. Human health and healing was extremely sophisticated

since cave times-- I have said it before that cave dwellers did brain

surgery: Google trephination and you'll see.

I drink a quart a day when I have the supply. I usually drink some of it

with meals and some between meals.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

July 23, 2006

--- In original_kombucha , Baker

wrote

> >

> Here's the thing about people who are licensed health providers,

whether

> they be Western M.D.s or acupuncturists or herbal practitioners or

> bodyworkers or whatever. First, they can lose their license, so

they will

> tend to be very careful to not offend the people who license them.

> What is harder to understand is an alternative practitioner being

affected by >the same syndrome, but it does happen.

>

> Secondly, licensed practitioners make a living by treating people with

>

> --V

77777777777777LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL7777777777777777777

Hi V,

I think you do know but you are so much on the " giving freely end " of

help-

ing that you are just not recalling the answers

First of all I think most of us have been introduced to un-orthodox,

alter-

native healing or health methods (even KOMBUCHA) first, second, or

third hand by the professional practioners in one way or another.

Through friends or relatives who were helped by one or read a book

written by or happened

to hear a talk by or about one etc.

So when these nurturing type health professionals go through the grocery

line and offer a safe cure for the clerk's or even the owner's

migraines, or whatever, they do not get the groceries free, they still

have to pay. They paid a good price to learn most of what they know

also and licenses, insurance, lawyers are costly too. Their time is

just as or more

valuable than the slash, burn, poison crowd, but almost never

compensated equally.

A hospital stay means Thousands of $ and treatment there from a Dr.

sometimes hundreds of thousands of $.

Then they are actually MORE in danger of losing their licenses, I would

imagine, since they are going against the accepted " scientific " community.

I am impressed that they ever speak out on lists such as this one where

we are free to respond critically, wether knowledgeable or ignorant our-

selves. (Let the reader feel free to read my past posts .

I don't know Ed Kasper, but I believe if he charged hundreds of

thousands

of $ for REALLY curing serious health conditions he would be in court

or worse jail and having to defend himself against the scientifc

experts who cannot REALLY cure much at all.

Here's just a short list of the Dr.s, or health practioners that I

personally

know have been harassed, harmed, ridiculed, defrocked arrested and/or

imprisoned for being professional and natural at the same time.

Airola, Budwig, , , Contrarez, Day, Gerson, Hoxsey,

Kelley, Preston, Reams, Schulze, Wigmore, Wiles.

Friends, don't get me wrong -- I love to get free help, and that's

what this

list is for, and I am grateful for that. But for those that are more

than salespersons of health related products there may be more for

them to

consider than we know.

And this worlds's core IS $$$.

Best wishes, neb

July 23, 2006

Thank you very much. I have been ramping up to a quart a day. I really

enjoy it.

Patty

RE: Dangers of experimentation with KT-- why the concerns

>You misunderstand me. I like it better with less sugar but I am reading

some