Re: Viruses binding metals/Yasko

[Guest guest]

I think the children are different from the men because they are

developing -- their brains are being built and forming. Some of

their organ systems may be more vulnerable.

My guess (I have no experience here!) is that if you were to give

crack (or whatever) to an adult, there is a decent chance the

adult's body would weather it and the adult would not have long-

term, apparent damage (such damage is possible, but not necessarily

more likely than not). But if you gave it to a newborn, you would

be more likely to do permanent damage.

Also, as for Dr. Yasko, I had a little light bulb moment reading

some of her stuff. Here's my very rough take --

Viruses have a normal life cycle. Metals can interfere with that

cycle, putting the virus' cycle on " hold, " resulting in

chronic/latent/dormant viruses in the body. It's in the virus' best

interest to keep the metals around, so the virus binds to the metal,

keeping it in the cell. Antiviral therapy snaps the " hold " button

and the virus continues it's normal cycle (getting the kid sick or

not, depending on which part of the cycle was placed on hold). The

antiviral then " kills " (keeps from replicating) the virus. Once the

virus is licked, the body can work on removing the now less-bound

metals, resulting in developmental surges.

It's an elementary take, but I'm pretty sure that is the basic gist.

Dawn

> >

>

> > My sense is that the metals can't clear out of brain because of

> metabolic and physiological

> > challenges that the viruses cause....

> >

> > - Stan

> >

> Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,

>

> From what I understand, you believe that by clearing up the viral

> issues, some of our children are able to excrete the mercury from

> their bodies, including their brains, all on their own. When I

hear

> this, I think about the autopsies done on men who had because of

their

> jobs been exposed to all sorts of mercury. These men didn't show

any

> signs of mercury poisoning (had they done so, they wouldn't have

> continued at their jobs) but their brains were full of mercury at

> autopsy. I remember after I read that, I concluded that because

of

> mercury's affinity for the brain, once it crossed the BBB the only

way

> to get it out again would be chelating it out. I was also reading

> about " recoveries " with just behavioural treatments at that point

and

> this caused me to really question the extent of those recoveries,

> particularly in the long-term. I'm wondering what would make some

of

> our children different from these men? Is there some sort of

> explanation that I'm missing? Or maybe I didn't understand the

> implications correctly in the first place?

>

> Thanks if you have any thoughts on this,

>

> Anita

>

[Guest guest]

> Also, as for Dr. Yasko, I had a little light bulb moment reading

> some of her stuff. Here's my very rough take --

Where did you read her theory on viruses and metals? I could not find

it on her web site.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I found the link. Pam

http://www.autismanswer.com/presentations/GRI_Conference_APR05/Virus,-

Metals,-and-RNA.html

> > Also, as for Dr. Yasko, I had a little light bulb moment reading

> > some of her stuff. Here's my very rough take --

>

> Where did you read her theory on viruses and metals? I could not

find

> it on her web site.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the vulnerability of our kids

when exposed to anything toxic; however, I don't think I expressed my

question very clearly. My underlying thought is this: if adults who

are known to be good excretors (people who work with mercury) don't

excrete mercury from their brains, then why would we believe that our

kids could do so by removing viruses (i.e. without chelation)?

Thanks for your nutshell take on Yasko. I've not read enough of her

work to understand it well, but your synopsis certainly gave me a good

framework for attaching details!

Anita

>

> I think the children are different from the men because they are

> developing -- their brains are being built and forming. Some of

> their organ systems may be more vulnerable.

>

> My guess (I have no experience here!) is that if you were to give

> crack (or whatever) to an adult, there is a decent chance the

> adult's body would weather it and the adult would not have long-

> term, apparent damage (such damage is possible, but not necessarily

> more likely than not). But if you gave it to a newborn, you would

> be more likely to do permanent damage.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita,

not sure if your original question was to Dawn or to all, if to all:

from what I gathered there is no question of no-need-to-chelate, believe

it is a question of being able to start/improve on detoxing/chelating

once viruses are out of the way. Or something along those lines.

Natasa

> >

> > I think the children are different from the men because they are

> > developing -- their brains are being built and forming. Some of

> > their organ systems may be more vulnerable.

> >

> > My guess (I have no experience here!) is that if you were to give

> > crack (or whatever) to an adult, there is a decent chance the

> > adult's body would weather it and the adult would not have long-

> > term, apparent damage (such damage is possible, but not necessarily

> > more likely than not). But if you gave it to a newborn, you would

> > be more likely to do permanent damage.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Anita,

>

> not sure if your original question was to Dawn or to all, if to

all:

> from what I gathered there is no question of no-need-to-chelate,

believe

> it is a question of being able to start/improve on

detoxing/chelating

> once viruses are out of the way. Or something along those lines.

>

> Natasa

>

Hi Natasa,

I think things are getting a bit muddled here now. Or maybe it's

just me ;-).

Are you speaking of Yasko's ideas here? It seems to me you might be.

My original question, which was to Stan and everyone, was not about

Dr. Yasko's idea, but more about what I think Stan has been

theorizing in some of his posts:

I've copied it below (and left what I hoped might clarify my

original post):

Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,

From what I understand, you believe that by clearing up the viral

issues, some of our children are able to excrete the mercury from

their bodies, including their brains, all on their own. When I hear

this, I think about the autopsies done on men who had because of

their jobs been exposed to all sorts of mercury. These men didn't

show any signs of mercury poisoning (had they done so, they wouldn't

have continued at their jobs) but their brains were full of mercury

at autopsy. I remember after I read that, I concluded that because

of mercury's affinity for the brain, once it crossed the BBB the

only way to get it out again would be chelating it out. I was also

reading about " recoveries " with just behavioural treatments at that

point and this caused me to really question the extent of those

recoveries, particularly in the long-term. I'm wondering what would

make some of our children different from these men? Is there some

sort of explanation that I'm missing? Or maybe I didn't understand

the implications correctly in the first place?

Thanks if you have any thoughts on this,

My underlying thought is this: if adults who

> > are known to be good excretors (people who work with mercury)

don't

> > excrete mercury from their brains, then why would we believe

that our

> > kids could do so by removing viruses (i.e. without chelation)?

> >

It's hard to get things straight with just a keyboard sometimes.

I hope I've not mixed things up even more.

Anita

[Guest guest]

Hi,

There is a 1981 paper by Dr. son, who collaborated with

Dr. Burbacher in 2005, about chelating Iraqi's who ate mercury

contaminated grain. In it, a study is referenced where (in rats)

removing mercury from the body led to lower mercury in brain.

Mercury moved out of brain into the body in a " whole compartment

model " .

I'll send it to Stan to see if he wants to add it to the files

section. If you email me privately and I'll send it to you.

Barry

Generation Rescue

> >

> > Hi Anita,

> >

> > not sure if your original question was to Dawn or to all, if to

> all:

> > from what I gathered there is no question of no-need-to-chelate,

> believe

> > it is a question of being able to start/improve on

> detoxing/chelating

> > once viruses are out of the way. Or something along those lines.

> >

> > Natasa

> >

> Hi Natasa,

>

> I think things are getting a bit muddled here now. Or maybe it's

> just me ;-).

>

> Are you speaking of Yasko's ideas here? It seems to me you might

be.

>

> My original question, which was to Stan and everyone, was not

about

> Dr. Yasko's idea, but more about what I think Stan has been

> theorizing in some of his posts:

>

> I've copied it below (and left what I hoped might clarify my

> original post):

>

> Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,

>

> From what I understand, you believe that by clearing up the viral

> issues, some of our children are able to excrete the mercury from

> their bodies, including their brains, all on their own. When I

hear

> this, I think about the autopsies done on men who had because of

> their jobs been exposed to all sorts of mercury. These men didn't

> show any signs of mercury poisoning (had they done so, they

wouldn't

> have continued at their jobs) but their brains were full of

mercury

> at autopsy. I remember after I read that, I concluded that

because

> of mercury's affinity for the brain, once it crossed the BBB the

> only way to get it out again would be chelating it out. I was

also

> reading about " recoveries " with just behavioural treatments at

that

> point and this caused me to really question the extent of those

> recoveries, particularly in the long-term. I'm wondering what

would

> make some of our children different from these men? Is there some

> sort of explanation that I'm missing? Or maybe I didn't

understand

> the implications correctly in the first place?

>

> Thanks if you have any thoughts on this,

>

> My underlying thought is this: if adults who

> > > are known to be good excretors (people who work with mercury)

> don't

> > > excrete mercury from their brains, then why would we believe

> that our

> > > kids could do so by removing viruses (i.e. without chelation)?

> > >

>

>

> It's hard to get things straight with just a keyboard sometimes.

>

> I hope I've not mixed things up even more.

>

> Anita

>

[Guest guest]

Specifically, I've been reading her articles, found under " Dr. Amy " -

- here's the virus/thimerosal one. (This is a different link from

the one posted earlier)

http://www.autismanswer.com/articles/yasko/autism_virus_thimerosal.ht

ml

She writes --

" However, what happens if the viral particles are not released? The

virus remains intracellular and the result is chronic viral

infection. In the case of the MMR vaccine and thimerosal, we have a

potential situation where some of the nucleic acid bases that are

used by the virus to make more viral RNA would contain thimerosal

acting as a mimic for a nucleic acid base. In addition any

thimerosal from other vaccines that has remained intact and has not

been eliminated from the body could be used in a similar fashion.

These growing viral RNAs could then get stuck at various points of

their replication. Rather than completing the normal viral life

cycle, the result would be a chronic viral infection with thimerosal

stably bound within viral RNA that is inside host cells.

....

Vaccination with live virus is designed to trigger viral

replication. However, the simultaneous presence of an inhibitor of

viral replication is a dangerous proposition. In a circumstance

where you are concurrently triggering and inhibiting viral

replication, it will be up to the immune status of the individual

host, as to which will actually occur.38 This can create a unique

problem for children who are compromised in their ability to rapidly

eliminate heavy metals, such as the preservative thimerosal. If the

thimerosal is not quickly excreted, it will remain in the system

long enough to serve as a nucleotide mimic, making the child

susceptible to chronic viral infection. "

Back to me --

What is weird, though, is that she mentions the MMR and thimerosal

together. At times I'm not sure whether she is referencing

thimerosal that was IN the MMR (which can't be, since as a live

virus vaccine it never contained thimerosal), referencing thimerosal

in a second vaccine given at the same time as the thimerosal-free

MMR, or referencing cumulative thimerosal exposure prior to the MMR.

> > > Also, as for Dr. Yasko, I had a little light bulb moment

reading

> > > some of her stuff. Here's my very rough take --

> >

> > Where did you read her theory on viruses and metals? I could not

> find

> > it on her web site.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I wasn’t going to post as I am not a

doctor and I don’t really even quite understand the whole picture yet, I

am just merely a mother seeking her son’s cure. I apologize in

advanced for the long reply. But I wanted to share what I have learned in

case it might help other parents.

You posted a very good question. One

that I asked myself too. How is it that some kids can recover from simply

getting 50 hours of ABA therapy a week? IMO the answer is in the brain. I

don’t think that those kids are free from the toxins. But the human

brain is extremely powerful and if given the appropriate brain cell connections

at the appropriate time, it evolves. Also, from what I recall, most kids

recovered started ABA as young as 18 months. Age / early intervention / plays a

big role and severity does as well.

I cannot quote people as I don’t

really have time to write down the author of every article I read.

However, in a child’s development book that I read (I want to say it was

Greenspan’s but cannot be for sure), I read that the human brain starts

to evolve as early as the fetus is 4 months. The brain starts to make brain

cell connections. If these connections are not interrupted, the brain

keeps connecting, growing, developing. From what I remember from that

article, the brain reshapes every 6 months until about the age of 7.

After that, it can still make new brain cells but not at the same rate as a

developing brain. The interesting thing is that if a particular

connection was not made when the child was supposed to achieve a milestone,

those cells die (they tested this theory with rats – I won’t go

into details). But if that connection is later introduced and the brain

accepts it, although the original connection was lost, the new connection makes

up for missed one and it gets embedded into the brain’s net. I

assume that is why ABA and Floortime are very effective techniques to introduce a child

the things that he/she did not learned naturally. Sounds great, but in

reality very few children have fully recovered using solely ABA. Some type of diet

or supplementation is needed.

The brain is the most powerful organ of

the body. Never underestimate the power of the brain. Humans only

use about 25% of their brain. So there is a lot of room to work with.

Moving on, don’t forget the power of

natural chelation: glutathione!!! Depending on how impared a

child’s methylation cycle is, if you supplement and eliminate food items

that can cause an IgG reaction, the body’s methylation cycle will

improve. If the body is able to make more glutathione due a more improved

methylation pathway, kids will start to show improvement as they will start to

naturally chelate the heavy metals (which we have seen in many kids that

improve on just diet and supplementation including reduced gluthathione).

If the body’s immune system is impaired, the viruses are more likely to

stay in the body since the body will not be able to make enough T cells to rid

them, they trap metals and they make natural chelation very difficult. In

one of Yasko’s DVDs, she explains in great detail the relationship

between viruses and metals. She does believe that virus trap

metals. So, once you eradicate the virus, your natural chelation process should

start eliminating the heavy metals released by the virus. For some

children, that is the answer. For others (like my son), genetic

susceptibilities (or mutations) might play a big role in preventing proper detox.

And in addition, there is inflammation in the brain which affects methylation.

So, the interesting thing is what you

mentioned about the mercury in the brain. If you study Buttar’s

theory (and what he based his DMPS on), the Hg molecules bind to cells

throughout the body. If a chelating agent is brought in the picture, that

Hg molecule binds to a chelating agent (either glutathione or DMPS or DMSA),

the body excretes the metal and 48 hours later, the molecules rearrange in the

body to grab another Hg molecule. The Hg in the brain eventually starts

to come down (that is why in theory DMPS takes longer since it does not cross

the BBB) and the child starts to excrete Hg from the brain and improve brain

activity. http://www.autismmedia.org/media4.html

(browse down until you see Dr. Buttar). My son has been on TD-DMPS Buttars

protocol for 7 months. This week has been wows after wows. Buttar

even says that you must chelate for 1 to 2 years on DMPS. What scares me

is that a developing brain does not have 2 years to waste.

For a developing child, metal toxicity

means that the necessary brain cell connections to develop are impaired and

therefore the child’s natural progress to grow and develop slows down or

stops. For an adult, it means other diseases, many neurological in

nature. I believe though that heavy metals in the brain (especially Hg)

never treated will lead to Alzheimer’s. http://commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/.

I just had my amalgams removed a month ago and in 6 months I will start

chelating myself.

Again, I might be really wrong, but this

is what I do understand and what makes sense for me. I have to admit that

Yasko is the only Dr. that can put the entire picture together. All other

DAN! doctors are specialists but because she works off of genetic mutations,

she gets closer. I am going to the DAN! conf. in DC next month and I hope

to learn more things there, especially in the area of methylation and antivirals

and chelation. But what has brought me to researching more about Yasko’s

approach is the fact that she is very detailed and confident. My son has

had problems with Methyl B12 for the longest time. I posted a question

and the answer is that given my son’s clinical and test history and

reactions (positives and negatives) to supplements, he most likely has a

mutation in the BH4 pathway which is making methyl groups accumulate in his

body. For those she recommends Hydroxy B12 which I am about to order from

Costal Pharmacy. In addition, his methylation pathway is messed up.

His Reduced Glut test came back as 9 where the minimum is 32. I

supplement with transdermal and it has been extremely positive. He

started talking a week after I started him on TD-Glut 9 months ago. He went

from severe to high functioning in a couple of months. I would be that he

would now be considered ADHD and expressive language delay and OCD. He is

empathetic, he relates very well, he is starting finally to play with toys,

etc. But he is not recovered. He has a long ride still. But

her genetic test will answer my question and will also allow me to better

supplement his body during chelation and antiviral therapies.

Thanks for listening. I really enjoy

being part of this group. I have learned a great deal in the past week.

.

Re: Viruses

binding metals/Yasko

>

> Hi Anita,

>

> not sure if your original question was to

Dawn or to all, if to

all:

> from what I gathered there is no question of

no-need-to-chelate,

believe

> it is a question of being able to

start/improve on

detoxing/chelating

> once viruses are out of the way. Or something

along those lines.

>

> Natasa

>

Hi Natasa,

I think things are getting a bit muddled here

now. Or maybe it's

just me ;-).

Are you speaking of Yasko's ideas here? It

seems to me you might be.

My original question, which was to Stan and

everyone, was not about

Dr. Yasko's idea, but more about what I think Stan

has been

theorizing in some of his posts:

I've copied it below (and left what I hoped might

clarify my

original post):

Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,

From what I understand, you believe that by

clearing up the viral

issues, some of our children are able to excrete

the mercury from

their bodies, including their brains, all on their

own. When I hear

this, I think about the autopsies done on men who

had because of

their jobs been exposed to all sorts of

mercury. These men didn't

show any signs of mercury poisoning (had they done

so, they wouldn't

have continued at their jobs) but their brains

were full of mercury

at autopsy. I remember after I read that, I

concluded that because

of mercury's affinity for the brain, once it

crossed the BBB the

only way to get it out again would be chelating it

out. I was also

reading about " recoveries " with just

behavioural treatments at that

point and this caused me to really question the

extent of those

recoveries, particularly in the long-term.

I'm wondering what would

make some of our children different from these

men? Is there some

sort of explanation that I'm missing? Or

maybe I didn't understand

the implications correctly in the first place?

Thanks if you have any thoughts on this,

My underlying thought is this: if adults

who

> > are known to be good excretors (people

who work with mercury)

don't

> > excrete mercury from their brains, then

why would we believe

that our

> > kids could do so by removing viruses

(i.e. without chelation)?

> >

It's hard to get things straight with just a

keyboard sometimes.

I hope I've not mixed things up even more.

Anita

[Guest guest]

Thanks , I liked the way you summarised it, believe we are now

closer to getting out of the muddle (or not?). Glad to hear your son is

making progress!

Last night I came across an excellent thread on Dr Amy's site -

she talks in detail about differences in DNA and RNA type viruses, on

different methylation pathways versus viruses and metals, and a lot

about Valtrex in particular. I won't copy it here as it is quite long

but for anyone interested you can to her forum

http://www.autismanswer.com/forum/ (you have to join) type in ' viral

AND expression ' in the search section and this thread should come up -

the subject name is "Virus 101 please'

Natasa

> >> > Hi Anita,> > > > not sure if your original question was to Dawn or to all, if to > all:> > from what I gathered there is no question of no-need-to-chelate, > believe> > it is a question of being able to start/improve on > detoxing/chelating> > once viruses are out of the way. Or something along those lines.> > > > Natasa> > > Hi Natasa,> > I think things are getting a bit muddled here now. Or maybe it's > just me ;-).> > Are you speaking of Yasko's ideas here? It seems to me you might be.> > My original question, which was to Stan and everyone, was not about > Dr. Yasko's idea, but more about what I think Stan has been > theorizing in some of his posts:> > I've copied it below (and left what I hoped might clarify my > original post):> > Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,> > From what I understand, you believe that by clearing up the viral> issues, some of our children are able to excrete the mercury from> their bodies, including their brains, all on their own. When I hear> this, I think about the autopsies done on men who had because of > their jobs been exposed to all sorts of mercury. These men didn't > show any signs of mercury poisoning (had they done so, they wouldn't > have continued at their jobs) but their brains were full of mercury > at autopsy. I remember after I read that, I concluded that because > of mercury's affinity for the brain, once it crossed the BBB the > only way to get it out again would be chelating it out. I was also > reading about "recoveries" with just behavioural treatments at that > point and this caused me to really question the extent of those > recoveries, particularly in the long-term. I'm wondering what would > make some of our children different from these men? Is there some > sort of explanation that I'm missing? Or maybe I didn't understand > the implications correctly in the first place?> > Thanks if you have any thoughts on this,> > My underlying thought is this: if adults who> > > are known to be good excretors (people who work with mercury) > don't> > > excrete mercury from their brains, then why would we believe > that our> > > kids could do so by removing viruses (i.e. without chelation)?> > >> > > It's hard to get things straight with just a keyboard sometimes.> > I hope I've not mixed things up even more.> > Anita> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

,

Can I ask how old you child is and what issues your son had directly

related to the MB-12?? Congratulations for making it this far! I think this is

where we all would like to end up. Was the most positive outcome from

Chelation? Anti virals like Valtrex? Or TD-glut? And did your son have apraxia?

Sorry for all of the questions? Our time clock is ticking loudly. Thank you,

>

>Date: Thu Mar 02 01:29:01 CST 2006

>To: mb12 valtrex

>Subject: RE: Re: Viruses binding metals/Yasko

>

>I wasn’t going to post as I am not adoctor and I don’t really even quite

understand the whole picture yet, Iam just merely a mother seeking her son’s

cure.  I apologize inadvanced for the long reply.  But I wanted to share what I

have learned incase it might help other parents.

> 

>You posted a very good question.  Onethat I asked myself too.  How is it that

some kids can recover from simplygetting 50 hours of ABA therapy a week?  IMO

the answer is in the brain.  Idon’t think that those kids are free from the

toxins.  But the humanbrain is extremely powerful and if given the appropriate

brain cell connectionsat the appropriate time, it evolves.  Also, from what I

recall, most kidsrecovered started ABA as young as 18 months.  Age / early

intervention / plays abig role and severity does as well.

> 

>I cannot quote people as I don’treally have time to write down the author of

every article I read. However, in a child’s development book that I read (I want

to say it wasGreenspan’s but cannot be for sure), I read that the human brain

startsto evolve as early as the fetus is 4 months.  The brain starts to make

braincell connections.  If these connections are not interrupted, the brainkeeps

connecting, growing, developing.  From what I remember from thatarticle, the

brain reshapes every 6 months until about the age of 7. After that, it can still

make new brain cells but not at the same rate as adeveloping brain.  The

interesting thing is that if a particularconnection was not made when the child

was supposed to achieve a milestone,those cells die (they tested this theory

with rats – I won’t gointo details).  But if that connection is later introduced

and the brainaccepts it, although the original connection was lost, the new

connection makesup for missed one and it gets embedded into the brain’s net. 

Iassume that is why ABA and Floortime are very effective techniques to introduce

a childthe things that he/she did not learned naturally.  Sounds great, but

inreality very few children have fully recovered using solely ABA.  Some type of

dietor supplementation is needed. 

> 

>The brain is the most powerful organ ofthe body.  Never underestimate the power

of the brain.  Humans onlyuse about 25% of their brain.  So there is a lot of

room to work with.

> 

>Moving on, don’t forget the power ofnatural chelation: glutathione!!! 

Depending on how impared achild’s methylation cycle is, if you supplement and

eliminate food itemsthat can cause an IgG reaction, the body’s methylation cycle

willimprove.  If the body is able to make more glutathione due a more

improvedmethylation pathway, kids will start to show improvement as they will

start tonaturally chelate the heavy metals (which we have seen in many kids

thatimprove on just diet and supplementation including reduced gluthathione). If

the body’s immune system is impaired, the viruses are more likely tostay in the

body since the body will not be able to make enough T cells to ridthem, they

trap metals and they make natural chelation very difficult.  Inone of Yasko’s

DVDs, she explains in great detail the relationshipbetween viruses and metals. 

She does believe that virus trapmetals.  So, once you eradicate the virus, your

natural chelation process shouldstart eliminating the heavy metals released by

the virus.  For somechildren, that is the answer.  For others (like my son),

geneticsusceptibilities (or mutations) might play a big role in preventing

proper detox. And in addition, there is inflammation in the brain which affects

methylation.

> 

>So, the interesting thing is what youmentioned about the mercury in the brain. 

If you study Buttar’stheory (and what he based his DMPS on), the Hg molecules

bind to cellsthroughout the body.  If a chelating agent is brought in the

picture, thatHg molecule binds to a chelating agent (either glutathione or DMPS

or DMSA),the body excretes the metal and 48 hours later, the molecules rearrange

in thebody to grab another Hg molecule.  The Hg in the brain eventually startsto

come down (that is why in theory DMPS takes longer since it does not crossthe

BBB) and the child starts to excrete Hg from the brain and improve

brainactivity.  http://www.autismmedia.org/media4.html(browse down until you see

Dr. Buttar).  My son has been on TD-DMPS Buttarsprotocol for 7 months.  This

week has been wows after wows.  Buttareven says that you must chelate for 1 to 2

years on DMPS.  What scares meis that a developing brain does not have 2 years

to waste.

> 

>For a developing child, metal toxicitymeans that the necessary brain cell

connections to develop are impaired andtherefore the child’s natural progress to

grow and develop slows down orstops.  For an adult, it means other diseases,

many neurological innature.  I believe though that heavy metals in the brain

(especially Hg)never treated will lead to Alzheimer’s. 

http://commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/. I just had my amalgams removed a month ago

and in 6 months I will startchelating myself.

> 

>Again, I might be really wrong, but thisis what I do understand and what makes

sense for me.  I have to admit thatYasko is the only Dr. that can put the entire

picture together.  All otherDAN! doctors are specialists but because she works

off of genetic mutations,she gets closer.  I am going to the DAN! conf. in DC

next month and I hopeto learn more things there, especially in the area of

methylation and antiviralsand chelation.  But what has brought me to researching

more about Yasko’sapproach is the fact that she is very detailed and confident. 

My son hashad problems with Methyl B12 for the longest time.  I posted a

questionand the answer is that given my son’s clinical and test history

andreactions (positives and negatives) to supplements, he most likely has

amutation in the BH4 pathway which is making methyl groups accumulate in

hisbody.  For those she recommends Hydroxy B12 which I am about to order

fromCostal Pharmacy.  In addition, his methylation pathway is messed up. His

Reduced Glut test came back as 9 where the minimum is 32.  Isupplement with

transdermal and it has been extremely positive.  Hestarted talking a week after

I started him on TD-Glut 9 months ago.  He wentfrom severe to high functioning

in a couple of months.  I would be that hewould now be considered ADHD and

expressive language delay and OCD.  He isempathetic, he relates very well, he is

starting finally to play with toys,etc.  But he is not recovered.  He has a long

ride still.  Buther genetic test will answer my question and will also allow me

to bettersupplement his body during chelation and antiviral therapies.

> 

>Thanks for listening.  I really enjoybeing part of this group.  I have learned

a great deal in the past week.

> 

>.

> 

> Re: Virusesbinding metals/Yasko

> 

>--- Inmb12 valtrex , " natasa778 " wrote:

>>

>> Hi Anita,

>>

>> not sure if your original question was toDawn or to all, if to

>all:

>> from what I gathered there is no question ofno-need-to-chelate,

>believe

>> it is a question of being able tostart/improve on

>detoxing/chelating

>> once viruses are out of the way. Or somethingalong those lines.

>>

>> Natasa

>>

>Hi Natasa,

>

>I think things are getting a bit muddled herenow.  Or maybe it's

>just me ;-).

>

>Are you speaking of Yasko's ideas here?  Itseems to me you might be.

>

>My original question, which was to Stan andeveryone, was not about

>Dr. Yasko's idea, but more about what I think Stanhas been

>theorizing in some of his posts:

>

>I've copied it below (and left what I hoped mightclarify my

>original post):

>

>Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,

>

>From what I understand, you believe that byclearing up the viral

>issues, some of our children are able to excretethe mercury from

>their bodies, including their brains, all on theirown.  When I hear

>this, I think about the autopsies done on men whohad because of

>their jobs been exposed to all sorts ofmercury.  These men didn't

>show any signs of mercury poisoning (had they doneso, they wouldn't

>have continued at their jobs) but their brainswere full of mercury

>at autopsy.  I remember after I read that, Iconcluded that because

>of mercury's affinity for the brain, once itcrossed the BBB the

>only way to get it out again would be chelating itout.  I was also

>reading about " recoveries " with justbehavioural treatments at that

>point and this caused me to really question theextent of those

>recoveries, particularly in the long-term. I'm wondering what would

>make some of our children different from thesemen?  Is there some

>sort of explanation that I'm missing?  Ormaybe I didn't understand

>the implications correctly in the first place?

>

>Thanks if you have any thoughts on this,

>

>  My underlying thought is this:  if adultswho

>> > are known to be good excretors (peoplewho work with mercury)

>don't

>> > excrete mercury from their brains, thenwhy would we believe

>that our

>> > kids could do so by removing viruses(i.e. without chelation)?

>> >

>

>

>It's hard to get things straight with just akeyboard sometimes.

>

>I hope I've not mixed things up even more.

>

>Anita

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I agree with what you are saying, but I see it as the chronic viral infection

wears down

methylation and fuels to the immune system simply because the immune system goes

after viruses before it does metals. Viruses are a higher priority and the body

expects to

kill them off rather than what seems to happen to some of our kids, which is the

immune

system seems to form the antibody incorrectly or does not have enough resources

to kill

off the virus and it just continues to chug away while the metals are left

untouched.

I do not believe the viruses have any awareness to the metals.

Either way, there is an obvious connection in my opinion.

- Stan

> > >

> >

> > > My sense is that the metals can't clear out of brain because of

> > metabolic and physiological

> > > challenges that the viruses cause....

> > >

> > > - Stan

> > >

> > Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,

> >

> > From what I understand, you believe that by clearing up the viral

> > issues, some of our children are able to excrete the mercury from

> > their bodies, including their brains, all on their own. When I

> hear

> > this, I think about the autopsies done on men who had because of

> their

> > jobs been exposed to all sorts of mercury. These men didn't show

> any

> > signs of mercury poisoning (had they done so, they wouldn't have

> > continued at their jobs) but their brains were full of mercury at

> > autopsy. I remember after I read that, I concluded that because

> of

> > mercury's affinity for the brain, once it crossed the BBB the only

> way

> > to get it out again would be chelating it out. I was also reading

> > about " recoveries " with just behavioural treatments at that point

> and

> > this caused me to really question the extent of those recoveries,

> > particularly in the long-term. I'm wondering what would make some

> of

> > our children different from these men? Is there some sort of

> > explanation that I'm missing? Or maybe I didn't understand the

> > implications correctly in the first place?

> >

> > Thanks if you have any thoughts on this,

> >

> > Anita

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita,

I'm not sure why you think these males are good excreters if they have mercury

in their

brain. I would be interested in seeing a hair analysis on these folks or

looking at a

metabolic profile to determine that.

Mercury does not stay in the blood very long. It binds to sulfur/hydrogen

groups (like

gluathione) and after glutathione is depleted it goes after sulfur/hydrogen

groups in the

body (like in the brain and other tissue).

Just because you don't find mercury in the blood, doesn't mean it was excreted

out. From

what I've read it only takes hours for mercury to leave the blood, even when it

doesn't

leave the body.

The only real way to test excretion and methylation of mercury is to check

urine, stool,

hair and skin before, during and/or after an exposure. You might be able to get

some

answers with some metabolic testing and hair analysis after the fact (like we

try to do with

our kids) and we can see if there is mercury in the body by doing a chelate

challenge test,

but in the case of a dead body you can measure mercury levels in the body or in

organs,

but it is quite difficult to know if that person was a good excreter/methylator

of mercury

prior to their death.

I don't believe one can assume they were a good excreter if they had mercury in

their

brain. I think you believe that once mercury gets to the brain, the body can

never remove

it and for the reasons I mentioned in earlier posts today, I do not believe that

to be the

case.

- Stan

> >

> > I think the children are different from the men because they are

> > developing -- their brains are being built and forming. Some of

> > their organ systems may be more vulnerable.

> >

> > My guess (I have no experience here!) is that if you were to give

> > crack (or whatever) to an adult, there is a decent chance the

> > adult's body would weather it and the adult would not have long-

> > term, apparent damage (such damage is possible, but not necessarily

> > more likely than not). But if you gave it to a newborn, you would

> > be more likely to do permanent damage.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Actually Natasa, I'll even be more bold to say that some children with metals

problems

may not need to be chelated... as in my son's case.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm anti-chelation. I'm not. I just believe in doing

the safest and

most productive things first and Valtrex is more benign than chelation IMO.

Plus, I would

rather approach the removal of metals from a more natural " full body "

perspective than to

just rip metals and essential elements (including glutathione) out of body at

the same time

if I didn't have to.

Worst case, if you can raise methylation levels prior to chelating, I suspect

you'll do a more

efficient and safer job of it.

- Stan

> > >

> > > I think the children are different from the men because they are

> > > developing -- their brains are being built and forming. Some of

> > > their organ systems may be more vulnerable.

> > >

> > > My guess (I have no experience here!) is that if you were to give

> > > crack (or whatever) to an adult, there is a decent chance the

> > > adult's body would weather it and the adult would not have long-

> > > term, apparent damage (such damage is possible, but not necessarily

> > > more likely than not). But if you gave it to a newborn, you would

> > > be more likely to do permanent damage.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This theroy may help to explain autoimmunity and chronic viral infection in the

presence

of mercury based and how the viruses might utilize mercury in the RNA

replication

process, which DOES mean she's saying viruses are holding onto mercury in the

RNA...

which is interesting and a theroy that might be worth exploring. But then, why

doesn't

metals detox kill the virus by binding to the mercury induced mirrored nucleic

acid base?

I'm starting to get the motivation to send her some questions.

Again, either way, it's possible evidence to go after viruses as part of the

metals removal

protocol.

- Stan

> > > > Also, as for Dr. Yasko, I had a little light bulb moment

> reading

> > > > some of her stuff. Here's my very rough take --

> > >

> > > Where did you read her theory on viruses and metals? I could not

> > find

> > > it on her web site.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I haven't talked about it here much, but I am also the co-chairman of Hand in

Hand Child

Development Center, a Regional Center provider of speech, ot, pt, and behavioral

therapy.

We don't do ABA, but I wanted to reply about behavioral and other " external "

therapies.

There is no question that external therapy plays a part in recovery. When you

utilize

impaired parts of the brain you are going to develope it. The brain doubles in

size

between age 3 and 6, which is why early intervention is so important... but that

doesn't

mean we haven't seen great results, even recoveries in older children. There

are several

teenage recoveries through antiviral therapy listed in the NIH database.

I'm a fan of ABA for children who are lower functioning, but for higher

functioning children

you may want to consider RDI or another therapy that focuses on the nuances of

relationships which is more frontal lobe focused, an area that is usually

impaired in our

kids.

I look at external therapies as the data your child needs to know, but your

child also has a

biomedical impaiment that makes it difficult to get the data in. So, IMO, it's

imporant to

have two approaches as part of your strategy. One is to clear your child's

brain using

biomedical techniques and use external therapies to retrain the child.

Biomedical

therapies are like putting glasses on the brain before showing it the

blackboard.

To me, doing one without the other really limits your chances of recovery. If

you look at

the children who have recovered from ADHD, PDD, Aspergers, and Autism, most of

them

found the metabolic issue, pathogen, virus, and/or toxicity and worked on it.

At the same time, there is no biomedical treatment for knowledge and that's

where

external therapies come in.

My son couldn't understand my feelings prior to antiviral therapy and in 21 days

was

asking me if I like music and if I wanted to dance with him. You can't teach

that through

external therapies.

I totally agree about glutathione. That's one of the main goals of the

therapies discussed

here.

I believe metals are also stuck in the body, not just tied up by the virallly

infected cells, but

also through impaired excretion based on chronic viral activity. When I

injected a live virus

and mercury into an adult subject (me) my excretion levels dropped to virtually

zero for 6

hours before it restarted. It seemed as though the viral activity and the

immune system

response caused a lessened ability to excrete mercury. So, what if my body

wasn't able to

properly adapt to that virus? Isn't it possible that excretion might not

restart. I can tell

you that that virus didn't take on 25 ug of mercury through replication and hold

on to it.

My excretion was impaired because of the virus being onboard and the bodies

response to

it. We'll learn more about this in the next year, but keep an open mind about

what these

viruses, which many of our children have, are doing. Either way, as parents I

believe it's

very important to explore antiviral therapy.

If you talk about Buttar's theroy, methylation is there, he just doen't talk

about it. He talks

about DMPS and DMSA not crossing the blood brain barrier (BBB) and removing the

mercury in the body effect the brain... OK, but how? How does mecury come back

out

through the BBB? Methylation. He says that raised glutathione levels help the

urine and

stool levels and says that glutathione is an antioxident and is a " scavanger "

but it's also an

important fuel for methylation and if you do the research you'll see that you

can't get

metals out of the brain past the BBB without methylation.

I agree about being scared to detox your child for 1 to 2 years with DMPS. I

would rather

try a less aggressive method like antivirals FIRST. More benign therapy first

is my

approach.

A good discussion. I'll be back online later today. Sorry for the lack of

spell check or

proofing. I have to run.

- Stan

> >

> > Hi Anita,

> >

> > not sure if your original question was to Dawn or to all, if to

> all:

> > from what I gathered there is no question of no-need-to-chelate,

> believe

> > it is a question of being able to start/improve on

> detoxing/chelating

> > once viruses are out of the way. Or something along those lines.

> >

> > Natasa

> >

> Hi Natasa,

>

> I think things are getting a bit muddled here now. Or maybe it's

> just me ;-).

>

> Are you speaking of Yasko's ideas here? It seems to me you might be.

>

> My original question, which was to Stan and everyone, was not about

> Dr. Yasko's idea, but more about what I think Stan has been

> theorizing in some of his posts:

>

> I've copied it below (and left what I hoped might clarify my

> original post):

>

> Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,

>

> From what I understand, you believe that by clearing up the viral

> issues, some of our children are able to excrete the mercury from

> their bodies, including their brains, all on their own. When I hear

> this, I think about the autopsies done on men who had because of

> their jobs been exposed to all sorts of mercury. These men didn't

> show any signs of mercury poisoning (had they done so, they wouldn't

> have continued at their jobs) but their brains were full of mercury

> at autopsy. I remember after I read that, I concluded that because

> of mercury's affinity for the brain, once it crossed the BBB the

> only way to get it out again would be chelating it out. I was also

> reading about " recoveries " with just behavioural treatments at that

> point and this caused me to really question the extent of those

> recoveries, particularly in the long-term. I'm wondering what would

> make some of our children different from these men? Is there some

> sort of explanation that I'm missing? Or maybe I didn't understand

> the implications correctly in the first place?

>

> Thanks if you have any thoughts on this,

>

> My underlying thought is this: if adults who

> > > are known to be good excretors (people who work with mercury)

> don't

> > > excrete mercury from their brains, then why would we believe

> that our

> > > kids could do so by removing viruses (i.e. without chelation)?

> > >

>

>

> It's hard to get things straight with just a keyboard sometimes.

>

> I hope I've not mixed things up even more.

>

> Anita

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One more thing. 98% of us here are not doctors.

- Stan

[Guest guest]

alex, just read your post on viruses binding to metals/yasko. tx for being so detailed. i really learn a lot and this helps me to help my son who is an original "tough nut"!

after over 5 yrs of bio med interventions, just now concentrating on viruses and chelation. started 1st with td dmps about 5 mos ago and added (again) valtrex. still doing more testing and trying to fine tune my son's protocol (a little bit of this, a little bit of that).

anyway, tx again for you and everyone (esp stan) for your posts and expertise.

vicki RE: Re: Viruses binding metals/Yasko

I wasn?t going to post as I am not a doctor and I don?t really even quite understand the whole picture yet, I am just merely a mother seeking her son?s cure. I apologize in advanced for the long reply. But I wanted to share what I have learned in case it might help other parents.

You posted a very good question. One that I asked myself too. How is it that some kids can recover from simply getting 50 hours of ABA therapy a week? IMO the answer is in the brain. I don?t think that those kids are free from the toxins. But the human brain is extremely powerful and if given the appropriate brain cell connections at the appropriate time, it evolves. Also, from what I recall, most kids recovered started ABA as young as 18 months. Age / early intervention / plays a big role and severity does as well.

I cannot quote people as I don?t really have time to write down the author of every article I read. However, in a child?s development book that I read (I want to say it was Greenspan?s but cannot be for sure), I read that the human brain starts to evolve as early as the fetus is 4 months. The brain starts to make brain cell connections. If these connections are not interrupted, the brain keeps connecting, growing, developing. From what I remember from that article, the brain reshapes every 6 months until about the age of 7. After that, it can still make new brain cells but not at the same rate as a developing brain. The interesting thing is that if a particular connection was not made when the child was supposed to achieve a milestone, those cells die (they tested this theory with rats ? I won?t go into details). But if that connection is later introduced and the brain accepts it, although the original connection was lost, the new connection makes up for missed one and it gets embedded into the brain?s net. I assume that is why ABA and Floortime are very effective techniques to introduce a child the things that he/she did not learned naturally. Sounds great, but in reality very few children have fully recovered using solely ABA. Some type of diet or supplementation is needed.

The brain is the most powerful organ of the body. Never underestimate the power of the brain. Humans only use about 25% of their brain. So there is a lot of room to work with.

Moving on, don?t forget the power of natural chelation: glutathione!!! Depending on how impared a child?s methylation cycle is, if you supplement and eliminate food items that can cause an IgG reaction, the body?s methylation cycle will improve. If the body is able to make more glutathione due a more improved methylation pathway, kids will start to show improvement as they will start to naturally chelate the heavy metals (which we have seen in many kids that improve on just diet and supplementation including reduced gluthathione). If the body?s immune system is impaired, the viruses are more likely to stay in the body since the body will not be able to make enough T cells to rid them, they trap metals and they make natural chelation very difficult. In one of Yasko?s DVDs, she explains in great detail the relationship between viruses and metals. She does believe that virus trap metals. So, once you eradicate the virus, your natural chelation process should start eliminating the heavy metals released by the virus. For some children, that is the answer. For others (like my son), genetic susceptibilities (or mutations) might play a big role in preventing proper detox. And in addition, there is inflammation in the brain which affects methylation.

So, the interesting thing is what you mentioned about the mercury in the brain. If you study Buttar?s theory (and what he based his DMPS on), the Hg molecules bind to cells throughout the body. If a chelating agent is brought in the picture, that Hg molecule binds to a chelating agent (either glutathione or DMPS or DMSA), the body excretes the metal and 48 hours later, the molecules rearrange in the body to grab another Hg molecule. The Hg in the brain eventually starts to come down (that is why in theory DMPS takes longer since it does not cross the BBB) and the child starts to excrete Hg from the brain and improve brain activity. http://www.autismmedia.org/media4.html (browse down until you see Dr. Buttar). My son has been on TD-DMPS Buttars protocol for 7 months. This week has been wows after wows. Buttar even says that you must chelate for 1 to 2 years on DMPS. What scares me is that a developing brain does not have 2 years to waste.

For a developing child, metal toxicity means that the necessary brain cell connections to develop are impaired and therefore the child?s natural progress to grow and develop slows down or stops. For an adult, it means other diseases, many neurological in nature. I believe though that heavy metals in the brain (especially Hg) never treated will lead to Alzheimer?s. http://commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/. I just had my amalgams removed a month ago and in 6 months I will start chelating myself.

Again, I might be really wrong, but this is what I do understand and what makes sense for me. I have to admit that Yasko is the only Dr. that can put the entire picture together. All other DAN! doctors are specialists but because she works off of genetic mutations, she gets closer. I am going to the DAN! conf. in DC next month and I hope to learn more things there, especially in the area of methylation and antivirals and chelation. But what has brought me to researching more about Yasko?s approach is the fact that she is very detailed and confident. My son has had problems with Methyl B12 for the longest time. I posted a question and the answer is that given my son?s clinical and test history and reactions (positives and negatives) to supplements, he most likely has a mutation in the BH4 pathway which is making methyl groups accumulate in his body. For those she recommends Hydroxy B12 which I am about to order from Costal Pharmacy. In addition, his methylation pathway is messed up. His Reduced Glut test came back as 9 where the minimum is 32. I supplement with transdermal and it has been extremely positive. He started talking a week after I started him on TD-Glut 9 months ago. He went from severe to high functioning in a couple of months. I would be that he would now be considered ADHD and expressive language delay and OCD. He is empathetic, he relates very well, he is starting finally to play with toys, etc. But he is not recovered. He has a long ride still. But her genetic test will answer my question and will also allow me to better supplement his body during chelation and antiviral therapies.

Thanks for listening. I really enjoy being part of this group. I have learned a great deal in the past week.

.

-----Original Message-----From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of Anita KugelstadtSent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:14 PMTo: mb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Viruses binding metals/Yasko

>> Hi Anita,> > not sure if your original question was to Dawn or to all, if to all:> from what I gathered there is no question of no-need-to-chelate, believe> it is a question of being able to start/improve on detoxing/chelating> once viruses are out of the way. Or something along those lines.> > Natasa> Hi Natasa,I think things are getting a bit muddled here now. Or maybe it's just me ;-).Are you speaking of Yasko's ideas here? It seems to me you might be.My original question, which was to Stan and everyone, was not about Dr. Yasko's idea, but more about what I think Stan has been theorizing in some of his posts:I've copied it below (and left what I hoped might clarify my original post):Stan and everyone else who might have thoughts,From what I understand, you believe that by clearing up the viralissues, some of our children are able to excrete the mercury fromtheir bodies, including their brains, all on their own. When I hearthis, I think about the autopsies done on men who had because of their jobs been exposed to all sorts of mercury. These men didn't show any signs of mercury poisoning (had they done so, they wouldn't have continued at their jobs) but their brains were full of mercury at autopsy. I remember after I read that, I concluded that because of mercury's affinity for the brain, once it crossed the BBB the only way to get it out again would be chelating it out. I was also reading about "recoveries" with just behavioural treatments at that point and this caused me to really question the extent of those recoveries, particularly in the long-term. I'm wondering what would make some of our children different from these men? Is there some sort of explanation that I'm missing? Or maybe I didn't understand the implications correctly in the first place?Thanks if you have any thoughts on this, My underlying thought is this: if adults who> > are known to be good excretors (people who work with mercury) don't> > excrete mercury from their brains, then why would we believe that our> > kids could do so by removing viruses (i.e. without chelation)?> >It's hard to get things straight with just a keyboard sometimes.I hope I've not mixed things up even more.Anita