Re: Re: making a town and theme park

[Guest guest]

I like ragtime myself--since it can be rather loud and raucous, like jazz, I'd

guess I'd have to leave my Eubie Blake sheet music behind...

Regarding Chinese--I think what one comedian said about Chinese people always

sounding angry is pretty accurate...

> 4) No jazz.

I *like* jazz. You don't have to listen to it if you don't like it.

It's not as if it's playing on every street corner

(unless you live in New Orleans). What is it about jazz that bothers

you?

>

[Guest guest]

Antryg Windrose wrote:

> Why should children not be allowed in a community?

I am not suggesting that children be disallowed in a fictitious autistic

community, but here goes: They are loud, annoying, and they do stupid things.

They run into streets without looking, they play ball games where their balls

can break windows, they throw rocks onto car ports or over fences without

knowing what is beyond them... there is no end to the stupid things they do, and

people are supposed to accept this because " they're just kids. " I have had my

property damaged by kids " just being kids, " and their parents do not feel

obligated to pay for the damage because " they're just being kids. " And even if

they had paid for the damage, it would not have happened if not for the idiotic

judgment of kids.

Kids cause me pain on a daily basis. They run around and scream just outside my

apartment every day. I cannot escape kids, because it is illegal to have an

apartment complex that does not allow kids-- that would be discrimination on the

basis of family status, which is illegal. I have no choice; even in my own

home, I have to spend hours a day hearing kids. I go to the grocery store, and

I hear screaming kids and babies. Anyplace I go, I expect to be assaulted with

kids running around like idiots, screaming their fool heads off.

This is one of those things in which people have choices. People have a choice

to have kids or not. I choose not to, and yet I am not free of them. I still

see them, and worse, hear them, every day. I still have to drive over the speed

bumps that are installed on the crummy street I live on, because kids are too

stupid to stay out of the road. I still get to have my already limited ability

to tolerate noise taxed by screaming kids-- even in my own home. I still have

kids pestering me with series of questions any time I try to do something

outside. Even though I have no kids, it still feels like my whole life revolves

around them. Other people choose to have kids; I cannot choose to be away from

them. Their choices impact my life in a negative way, and there is nothing I

can do about it.

A community where there are no kids would be a HUGE attraction to me... I would

move there in an instant if I could. Obviously, it would not be sustainable if

the whole world was this way, but isolated pockets without kids would provide

some much-desired relief for those of us those kids hurt daily.

> Children are what

> makes the future of a community.

Children may be the future for others, but not for me. I would not ask that

everyone stop reproducing, but it would be nice to have a place where my choice

NOT to have kids can have as much weight as the choices made by those people

that DO choose to have kids. Kids are the future in that they will grow into

adults... once they do, I will presumably find them tolerable to be around, at

least as much as I find any adult so. What they will become is not terribly

relevant; they are painful and annoying now, and now is when I have to be

subjected to their noise.

> They should be treated with respect not

> scorned.

When they cause me the amount of suffering they do, I do sometimes scorn them,

no doubt about that. In the abstract, kids are fine; I spend considerable time

thinking about ways to help autistic kids (which, unlike NT kids, do not bother

me at all)... but I would like to be able to retreat from them and their hazards

and noise. I am not allowed to do that currently.

Autistic kids, I find, are much more tolerable than NT kids. Even when they are

noisy and do dumb things, I am just not as annoyed by them as I am by normal

kids. When they scream, I still cover my ears, but I look at them and generally

can understand why they are screaming, and I do not react in anger. With NT

kids, the pain they caused me results in an anger response.

Judging by their almost universal desire to delete any traces of autism in their

kids, and how autism seems to repulse them, it appears that NTs see the young of

our kind just as I see the young of their kind. I do not, however, seek to

smash the NT in those kids and change them into people that are more acceptable

to me. I do not consider it abusive when an NT refuses to give the child

" therapy " indended only to make the child more like me.

> I personally think a community of only autistic spectrum people would be

> more unbearable than normal society. Even if everybody did have autism

> in common the diversity among autistic folk would make the place futile.

I was thinking about this since the thread was started. The things that would

be different in my vision of an autistic-only place would be a little different

than that which has been mentioned so far.

In my autistic place, people would not be treated differently by the police and

people of authority because their body language means " I'm guilty " to NTs.

People would be accused, and, if necessary, convicted of crimes because of their

actual guilt, not because someone " just knows " that a person " did it " because he

is not normal. The police, the courts, the prosecutors would all presume a

suspect is innocent until proven guilty-- something that is supposed to happen

in the American justice system, but not for people that are abnormal in any way.

That would not happen in my autistic village. People would not assume that a

lack of eye contact means we're doing something wrong. They would have to

actually have facts to make accusations of wrongdoing, rather than just having a

" hunch " based on nonverbal cues that are unreliable even among NTs.

In my fantasy, people would not be treated as less than human because they are

autistic. It would be just as reprehensible to abuse an autistic person, child

or adult, as it is to abuse a normal one in real society. " Treatments " that

would be considered abusive for normal kids would be considered abusive for

autistic ones too. Currently, autistic kids (and I am not even speaking about

the ones that are misdiagnosed) are subjected to treatment that would be at the

very least frowned upon, and at worst would be criminal, if done to an NT. No

one would wonder whether autistic people can have valid opinions in my autistic

village, and no one would ponder whether any opinions that we did express were

just symptoms of our condition.

In my autistic place, the problem of bullying would be taken seriously. People

would not say " boys will be boys " and turn a blind eye when they hear of one

hapless kid being picked on by everyone else. No one would blame the person

that is being bullied for bringing it on himself because he was not normal.

Parents would not punish a kid for being a victim of bullying. Bullies would be

scorned, not revered.

As I see it, autistic people would not be expected to change themselves

completely, to wholly hide their true selves, at great discomfort to themselves,

just to increase the comfort of people that are more comfortable than we are in

just about any given situation anyway. People would be unabashedly real; they

would say what they mean and mean what they say. Documentaries and shows with

some substance would have higher ratings on TV than Entertainment Tonight and

other such celebrity gossip shows. What people think would be more important

than what they wore or who they know.

In the workplace, people's job ratings would be based on their ability to do the

job and to think in innovative ways, not on their ability to socialize with

other workers. People would take credit for what they did, and not for what

others did. There would not be office politics; there would only be doing a job

to the best of your ability. Competence and skill would be more important than

bonding with other workers. Job interviews would not rely on social skill and

impressive body language.

In my autistic village, there would not be any rules like " natural fibers only, "

nor any special privileges for owners of certain species of pets. It would not

be about banning Chinese from being spoken, or prohibiting any kind of music.

It would not be about banning loud noises (they are necessary sometimes; the

other day, I changed a U-joint on my car, and that made a lot of noise... but it

had to be done). My autistic place would be about not being unwanted, unwelcome

aliens on our home planet. It would be about treating us like people who are

different, not diseases with people that matter hidden underneath, somewhere.

In my autistic village, the condition we all have would be celebrated as a gift

that gives us something valuable to society-- a different perspective. Our

penchant for thinking in unconventional ways would be a delight, not a concern,

certainly not a symptom of a horrible disease. DAN would be a name short for

, and CAN would be a cylindrical metal vessel that holds something.

Bernie Rimland would be considered to be a comedian. Autism would be defined in

terms of strengths, not impairments. The goal of autism research would be to

help all autistics lead self-directed, independent lives, free of sensory

distortions and other such things that have a negative impact on quality of

life, not to wipe out autism entirely.

That's what I would like to see in an autistic village. I do not think it would

be more intolerable than being among NTs. I have been in groups of NTs, and I

have been in groups of my own kind, and I am more comfortable for sure among my

own kind. I still do not feel like I fit in, but the comfort level is higher

for me. NTs have often judged me based on their own incompatible standards and

found me unacceptable; that means that I am always a little wary among them.

That is not so among my own kind.

I would prefer to live in a place that had a much higher proportion of

autistics. It would not have to be all autistics; it may not even have to be

mostly autistics. There would just have to be enough of us that the NTs know

we're there, and would be forced to meet us on our terms, at least part way.

Even a significant minority of our kind would result in a local culture shift

closer to the ideas above, I think.

[Guest guest]

Klein wrote:

> Antryg Windrose wrote:

>

>

>

>>Why should children not be allowed in a community?

>

>

>

> I am not suggesting that children be disallowed in a fictitious autistic

> community, but here goes: They are loud, annoying, and they do stupid things.

> They run into streets without looking, they play ball games where their balls

> can break windows, they throw rocks onto car ports or over fences without

> knowing what is beyond them... there is no end to the stupid things they do,

and

> people are supposed to accept this because " they're just kids. " I have had my

> property damaged by kids " just being kids, " and their parents do not feel

> obligated to pay for the damage because " they're just being kids. " And even

if

> they had paid for the damage, it would not have happened if not for the

idiotic

> judgment of kids.

I would see that type of behaviour as the fault of the people bringing

the kids up not that all kids are like that. Bianca's kids would never

do something like that whereas their cousins whose parents have not

brought them up to behave properly do.

>

> Kids cause me pain on a daily basis. They run around and scream just outside

my

> apartment every day. I cannot escape kids, because it is illegal to have an

> apartment complex that does not allow kids-- that would be discrimination on

the

> basis of family status, which is illegal. I have no choice; even in my own

> home, I have to spend hours a day hearing kids. I go to the grocery store,

and

> I hear screaming kids and babies. Anyplace I go, I expect to be assaulted

with

> kids running around like idiots, screaming their fool heads off.

I dislike badly brought up children and I avoid children as a whole

because I am very susceptible to respiratory infections and just about

every time I am with kids I pick something up.

> This is one of those things in which people have choices. People have a

choice

> to have kids or not. I choose not to, and yet I am not free of them. I still

> see them, and worse, hear them, every day. I still have to drive over the

speed

> bumps that are installed on the crummy street I live on, because kids are too

> stupid to stay out of the road. I still get to have my already limited

ability

> to tolerate noise taxed by screaming kids-- even in my own home. I still have

> kids pestering me with series of questions any time I try to do something

> outside. Even though I have no kids, it still feels like my whole life

revolves

> around them. Other people choose to have kids; I cannot choose to be away

from

> them. Their choices impact my life in a negative way, and there is nothing I

> can do about it.

I guess living in a house solves that problem. No kids allowed on my

premises without my permission.

> A community where there are no kids would be a HUGE attraction to me... I

would

> move there in an instant if I could. Obviously, it would not be sustainable

if

> the whole world was this way, but isolated pockets without kids would provide

> some much-desired relief for those of us those kids hurt daily.

Again I would have to say that it depends on how the children were

brought up. If you knew me when I lived with my father and my brother at

the same time you would have found me pleasant and intelligent company

able to carry on an adult conversation about a variety of interesting

topics but you would not have been able to cope with my brother's

behaviour. The difference was that I was disciplined for bad behaviour

and I knew right from wrong whereas my brother was not and did just what

he pleased and was very spoiled. That is about the only thing which I am

glad my father did the way he did.

>>Children are what

>>makes the future of a community.

>

>

>

> Children may be the future for others, but not for me. I would not ask that

> everyone stop reproducing, but it would be nice to have a place where my

choice

> NOT to have kids can have as much weight as the choices made by those people

> that DO choose to have kids. Kids are the future in that they will grow into

> adults... once they do, I will presumably find them tolerable to be around, at

> least as much as I find any adult so. What they will become is not terribly

> relevant; they are painful and annoying now, and now is when I have to be

> subjected to their noise.

I can understand wanting a community where kids aren't allowed but it

seems very limiting for an autistic spectrum community when there are

vast numbers of autistics who have children and vast numbers of autistic

children. It seems to me akin to apartheid.

>>They should be treated with respect not

>>scorned.

>

>

>

> When they cause me the amount of suffering they do, I do sometimes scorn them,

> no doubt about that. In the abstract, kids are fine; I spend considerable

time

> thinking about ways to help autistic kids (which, unlike NT kids, do not

bother

> me at all)... but I would like to be able to retreat from them and their

hazards

> and noise. I am not allowed to do that currently.

>

> Autistic kids, I find, are much more tolerable than NT kids. Even when they

are

> noisy and do dumb things, I am just not as annoyed by them as I am by normal

> kids. When they scream, I still cover my ears, but I look at them and

generally

> can understand why they are screaming, and I do not react in anger. With NT

> kids, the pain they caused me results in an anger response.

>

> Judging by their almost universal desire to delete any traces of autism in

their

> kids, and how autism seems to repulse them, it appears that NTs see the young

of

> our kind just as I see the young of their kind. I do not, however, seek to

> smash the NT in those kids and change them into people that are more

acceptable

> to me. I do not consider it abusive when an NT refuses to give the child

> " therapy " indended only to make the child more like me.

This again comes down to a good versus bad parenting issue. I know

several NT children who are a pleasure to be around because their

mothers and/or fathers have brought them up to behave responsibly and

not be brats. The real shame is that there are way too few good parents

in this world.

> > I personally think a community of only autistic spectrum people would be

>

>

>>more unbearable than normal society. Even if everybody did have autism

>>in common the diversity among autistic folk would make the place futile.

>

>

> I was thinking about this since the thread was started. The things that would

> be different in my vision of an autistic-only place would be a little

different

> than that which has been mentioned so far.

>

> In my autistic place, people would not be treated differently by the police

and

> people of authority because their body language means " I'm guilty " to NTs.

> People would be accused, and, if necessary, convicted of crimes because of

their

> actual guilt, not because someone " just knows " that a person " did it " because

he

> is not normal. The police, the courts, the prosecutors would all presume a

> suspect is innocent until proven guilty-- something that is supposed to happen

> in the American justice system, but not for people that are abnormal in any

way.

> That would not happen in my autistic village. People would not assume that

a

> lack of eye contact means we're doing something wrong. They would have to

> actually have facts to make accusations of wrongdoing, rather than just having

a

> " hunch " based on nonverbal cues that are unreliable even among NTs.

Juries act on hunches? That is not the way I always thought the legal

system worked. My father was convicted of several offences related to

pedophilia because of what was said on my written statement and evidence

from medical examinations of me and accounts of my behaviour at the time

of these incidents, not because of my body language or his.

> In my fantasy, people would not be treated as less than human because they are

> autistic. It would be just as reprehensible to abuse an autistic person,

child

> or adult, as it is to abuse a normal one in real society. " Treatments " that

> would be considered abusive for normal kids would be considered abusive for

> autistic ones too. Currently, autistic kids (and I am not even speaking about

> the ones that are misdiagnosed) are subjected to treatment that would be at

the

> very least frowned upon, and at worst would be criminal, if done to an NT. No

> one would wonder whether autistic people can have valid opinions in my

autistic

> village, and no one would ponder whether any opinions that we did express were

> just symptoms of our condition.

Autistics and other minority groups. A world without prejudice and

discrimination would be lovely but sadly that is not likely to ever

happen. Discrimination is rife among autistics too.

> In my autistic place, the problem of bullying would be taken seriously.

People

> would not say " boys will be boys " and turn a blind eye when they hear of one

> hapless kid being picked on by everyone else. No one would blame the person

> that is being bullied for bringing it on himself because he was not normal.

> Parents would not punish a kid for being a victim of bullying. Bullies would

be

> scorned, not revered.

That is how it is these days here. I can't comment on american schools

but in Western Australia bullying is taken pretty seriously and all

schools have antibullying policies and strategies. Bad violence is

rarely seen in schools here. It makes the news headlines when a child

seriously assaults another. When I was at school I was not treated

nicely but it was not the life-threatening physical type of assault that

several american people have described to me from their own childhoods.

> As I see it, autistic people would not be expected to change themselves

> completely, to wholly hide their true selves, at great discomfort to

themselves,

> just to increase the comfort of people that are more comfortable than we are

in

> just about any given situation anyway. People would be unabashedly real; they

> would say what they mean and mean what they say. Documentaries and shows with

> some substance would have higher ratings on TV than Entertainment Tonight and

> other such celebrity gossip shows. What people think would be more important

> than what they wore or who they know.

The more I get to know " NT " people the more I realise that none of them

are neurologically typical and none of them are actually that shallow or

that interested in celebrities. Well, hardly any. Maybe it is just where

I live but almost everyone I have bothered to get to know has mental

illness in the family, " skeletons in the closet " and doesn't attach much

value to infomercials and entertainment junk television shows. I have

yet to meet anyone " NT " or otherwise who really does take those things

seriously or set aside time to watch them.

> In the workplace, people's job ratings would be based on their ability to do

the

> job and to think in innovative ways, not on their ability to socialize with

> other workers. People would take credit for what they did, and not for what

> others did. There would not be office politics; there would only be doing a

job

> to the best of your ability. Competence and skill would be more important

than

> bonding with other workers. Job interviews would not rely on social skill and

> impressive body language.

My only experience of offices is my father's workplace. In that place,

single childless people were preferred over single mothers, people with

differences were judged on their work not their social skills, etc.

People socialising or not doing a good job would quickly been sacked.

Nobody cared that the storeman had factitious illnesses and obviously

wasn't getting the attention he needed from his wife at home as long as

he did the job properly. Nobody cared that the IT manager was a rude

prick with zero social skills because he was very good at his job. Maybe

I have just been exposed only to a reasonable workplace minus prejudice.

Nobody in that office got more than the minimum leave and when the

secretary wanted leave because of a child they found another secretary

who could do the necessary job. The group of companies did not have

money to spare on expensive temps and sickie days.

> In my autistic village, there would not be any rules like " natural fibers

only, "

> nor any special privileges for owners of certain species of pets. It would

not

> be about banning Chinese from being spoken, or prohibiting any kind of music.

> It would not be about banning loud noises (they are necessary sometimes; the

> other day, I changed a U-joint on my car, and that made a lot of noise... but

it

> had to be done). My autistic place would be about not being unwanted,

unwelcome

> aliens on our home planet. It would be about treating us like people who are

> different, not diseases with people that matter hidden underneath, somewhere.

That sounds reasonable to me. Stuff about dogs being allowed everywhere

and restrictive availability of foods and clothing just seems silly in a

community where a lot of people would have different medical conditions,

allergies, phobias, likes and dislikes.

> In my autistic village, the condition we all have would be celebrated as a

gift

> that gives us something valuable to society-- a different perspective. Our

> penchant for thinking in unconventional ways would be a delight, not a

concern,

> certainly not a symptom of a horrible disease. DAN would be a name short for

> , and CAN would be a cylindrical metal vessel that holds something.

I don't get DAN and CAN. I am guessing this means something else?

> Bernie Rimland would be considered to be a comedian. Autism would be defined

in

> terms of strengths, not impairments. The goal of autism research would be to

> help all autistics lead self-directed, independent lives, free of sensory

> distortions and other such things that have a negative impact on quality of

> life, not to wipe out autism entirely.

I think wiping out autism entirely in the context of Kanner's autistics

may of whom can't wipe their own butts sounds reasonable. If it was

found to be something that could be eradicated so that children were not

born with it then I am not sure I would think that evil. I mean, if

there was a way to eradicate cystic fibrosis I would say go for it even

though some cystic fibrosis patients don't even know they have the

disease until old age and life perfectly normal lives. I believe in

celebrating the good points of any person once they are alive but I

doubt I would want to have a diseased or disordered child and hope that

they just happen to be a mild case.

> That's what I would like to see in an autistic village. I do not think it

would

> be more intolerable than being among NTs. I have been in groups of NTs, and I

> have been in groups of my own kind, and I am more comfortable for sure among

my

> own kind. I still do not feel like I fit in, but the comfort level is higher

> for me. NTs have often judged me based on their own incompatible standards

and

> found me unacceptable; that means that I am always a little wary among them.

> That is not so among my own kind.

I find that the antics of the few autistic children I have met are just

as objectionable as the antics of NT children even if I can understand

where they are coming from. People swinging legs or rocking in my field

of vision gives me migraines, kids running up and touching me with their

hands like the autistic (LFA) boy up the road does at the shops gives me

the shits at best and causes me to have a panic attack at worst, noises

made as stims would irritate me or hurt me no less than noises made as

petulance or brattiness by an NT child, etc. Just knowing why a kid does

something does not change how it impacts upon my senses.

> I would prefer to live in a place that had a much higher proportion of

> autistics. It would not have to be all autistics; it may not even have to be

> mostly autistics. There would just have to be enough of us that the NTs know

> we're there, and would be forced to meet us on our terms, at least part way.

> Even a significant minority of our kind would result in a local culture shift

> closer to the ideas above, I think.

I think I would like to live in a place where people accepted autism,

neurotypicality, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, cerebral palsy,

multiple sclerosis, cystic fibrosis, severe eczema and whatever other

reason that a lot of people might exclude others. I think the key thing

here is lack of discrimination not necessarily all autistics or all any

type of difference or disorder. Non-autistic people can be

non-descriminatory too if they are educated in the right way and taught

that compassion and acceptance are important values.

Children tend to be nastier and less accepting than adults, but since I

have gotten to know several children as an adult I have observed that a

lot of the reason they act this way is fear. Bianca's children again as

an example know that I have a lot of scars on my arms and don't think

any differently about me because of it, because Bianca has educated them

about mental illness and because a 9 year old boy in their school

attempted suicide so the children have learned that others can suffer

for many reasons and have learned to have an attitude of compassion

towards those who look different, act different, have rashes or scabs or

scars or are in wheelchairs or whatever. It mostly comes down to

parenting and who the kids associate with.

CZ

[Guest guest]

--- Klein wrote:

> Antryg Windrose wrote:

>

>

> > Why should children not be allowed in a community?

>

>

> I am not suggesting that children be disallowed in a

> fictitious autistic

> community, but here goes: They are loud, annoying,

> and they do stupid things.

> They run into streets without looking, they play

> ball games where their balls

> can break windows, they throw rocks onto car ports

> or over fences without

> knowing what is beyond them... there is no end to

> the stupid things they do, and

> people are supposed to accept this because " they're

> just kids. " I have had my

> property damaged by kids " just being kids, " and

> their parents do not feel

> obligated to pay for the damage because " they're

> just being kids. " And even if

> they had paid for the damage, it would not have

> happened if not for the idiotic

> judgment of kids.

-----------------Being an autistic village, though,

would mean the kids are autistic also...

>

> Kids cause me pain on a daily basis. They run

> around and scream just outside my

> apartment every day. I cannot escape kids, because

> it is illegal to have an

> apartment complex that does not allow kids-- that

> would be discrimination on the

> basis of family status, which is illegal. I have no

> choice; even in my own

> home, I have to spend hours a day hearing kids. I

> go to the grocery store, and

> I hear screaming kids and babies. Anyplace I go, I

> expect to be assaulted with

> kids running around like idiots, screaming their

> fool heads off.

>

> This is one of those things in which people have

> choices. People have a choice

> to have kids or not. I choose not to, and yet I am

> not free of them. I still

> see them, and worse, hear them, every day. I still

> have to drive over the speed

> bumps that are installed on the crummy street I live

> on, because kids are too

> stupid to stay out of the road. I still get to have

> my already limited ability

> to tolerate noise taxed by screaming kids-- even in

> my own home. I still have

> kids pestering me with series of questions any time

> I try to do something

> outside. Even though I have no kids, it still feels

> like my whole life revolves

> around them. Other people choose to have kids; I

> cannot choose to be away from

> them. Their choices impact my life in a negative

> way, and there is nothing I

> can do about it.

>

> A community where there are no kids would be a HUGE

> attraction to me... I would

> move there in an instant if I could. Obviously, it

> would not be sustainable if

> the whole world was this way, but isolated pockets

> without kids would provide

> some much-desired relief for those of us those kids

> hurt daily.

----------Seems you'd have to change to two

communities, a childfree one and an inclusive one.

>

> > They should be treated with respect not

> > scorned.

>

>

> When they cause me the amount of suffering they do,

> I do sometimes scorn them,

> no doubt about that. In the abstract, kids are

> fine; I spend considerable time

> thinking about ways to help autistic kids (which,

> unlike NT kids, do not bother

> me at all)... but I would like to be able to retreat

> from them and their hazards

> and noise. I am not allowed to do that currently.

--------------You could always move into adult

disabled housing, no?

>

> Autistic kids, I find, are much more tolerable than

> NT kids. Even when they are

> noisy and do dumb things, I am just not as annoyed

> by them as I am by normal

> kids. When they scream, I still cover my ears, but

> I look at them and generally

> can understand why they are screaming, and I do not

> react in anger. With NT

> kids, the pain they caused me results in an anger

> response.

------------So since an autistic village would mean

autistic kids, why bother going into all this brou ha

ha about kids in general?

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

> I've been trying to get a job for about a year seriously and more than

> that in a less intensive manner. I've been listed with the autism

> association's employment agency but they have consistently proven

> themselves to be useless lying fwads.

I have a seasonal job but have been trying to find a year-round job. The

government has hired a job placement agency to try to find jobs for people

with disabilities. What worries about that is that if they offer me a job

that I know I can't do -- ie, one that involves a lot of interaction with

people such as in retail sales -- I will have my disability benefits cut

if I refuse the job. If I accept the job, but get fired, I will lose my

benefits completely for three months. It's a catch-22. I'm screwed either

way. But if I refuse to join the program, I can have my benefits cut as

well.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

The man gave a shrug which indicated that, although the world did

indeed have many problems, this was one of them that was not his.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

I was that way about pickles until very recently. It wasn't until this year that

I could find a variety I could stand.

I'm split on bell peppers and celery. I love bell peppers on my pizza, and one

of my favorite dishes is stuffed peppers. Personally, I think they're far better

raw than cooked. I'm with on celery, though. I can take that only in very

small amounts. Even so, it seems to overpower every dish it's a part of.

Re: re: making a town and theme park

wrote:

>I can't stand bell peppers and celery -- to the point where I don't even

>consider them food -- but I can't imagine banning them for all people

>just because I didn't like them

Bell peppers were non-food (made me gag) all my life --

until I was 45. At that point, I suddenly discovered

that I could eat them. " Delayed development, " I guess.

Jane-the-delayed (but still developing)

[Guest guest]

Jane Meyerding danced around singing:

>Bell peppers were non-food (made me gag) all my life --

>until I was 45. At that point, I suddenly discovered

>that I could eat them. " Delayed development, " I guess.

I had a very similar experience with them just this year! Before now, they

were way too bitter and just generally revolted me unless they were buried

in some other food so I wouldn't notice them. Then one day I just had an

urge to eat a raw one that came with a deli sandwich I had bought at

school, and was surprised to find I really liked it, the taste didn't seem

bitter any more...

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

[Guest guest]

> Jane Meyerding danced around singing:

> >Bell peppers were non-food (made me gag) all my life --

> >until I was 45. At that point, I suddenly discovered

> >that I could eat them. " Delayed development, " I guess.

>

> I had a very similar experience with them just this year! Before now, they

> were way too bitter and just generally revolted me unless they were buried

> in some other food so I wouldn't notice them. Then one day I just had an

> urge to eat a raw one that came with a deli sandwich I had bought at

> school, and was surprised to find I really liked it, the taste didn't seem

> bitter any more...

When I was a kid I loathed mushrooms. Then I loathed mushrooms unless they

were in chinese food. Then I loathed them unless they were in Chinese food

or on pizza. Then I liked them fried with steak and onions... Now I like

mushrooms regarless of how they're used. It seemed to be a gradual thing.

I also hated peanut butter, because of the strong smell. But when I went

to diabetes camp, peanut butter was one of the staples. After being

force-fed peanut butter at camp, I actually started to like it. These days

I don't like it as much.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

The man gave a shrug which indicated that, although the world did

indeed have many problems, this was one of them that was not his.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

I couldn't stand anchovies and olives as a child. Now I like anchovies on

pizza, but I still loathe olives! Liver is out too - ugh!

sandi

Re: re: making a town and theme park

> Iris wrote:

> >When I was a kid I loathed mushrooms. Then I loathed mushrooms unless

they

> >were in chinese food. Then I loathed them unless they were in Chinese

food

> >or on pizza. Then I liked them fried with steak and onions... Now I like

> >mushrooms regarless of how they're used. It seemed to be a gradual thing.

>

> Same with me. Couldn't eat mushrooms when I was young.

> Now I love them.

>

> Jane

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I couldn't stand anchovies and olives as a child. Now I like anchovies on

> pizza, but I still loathe olives! Liver is out too - ugh!

I agree with you -- no liver for me either!

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

The man gave a shrug which indicated that, although the world did

indeed have many problems, this was one of them that was not his.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

Iris wrote:

>When I was a kid I loathed mushrooms. Then I loathed mushrooms unless they

>were in chinese food. Then I loathed them unless they were in Chinese food

>or on pizza. Then I liked them fried with steak and onions... Now I like

>mushrooms regarless of how they're used. It seemed to be a gradual thing.

Same with me. Couldn't eat mushrooms when I was young.

Now I love them.

Jane