Re: Aspergers In Love -- new book by Maxine Aston

[Guest guest]

I wrote this same response to 's review on another list, so for some

of you it might be a repeat.

wrote:

> Here are some direct quotes from chapter summaries that my research and

> partners. " <snip>

> " A majority of AS women are at some time physically abusive towards their

> partners. "

Exactly what is this supposed to mean? Does it mean a one time slap, or

serious hitting? I have slapped Dick one or two times (not hard) in

frustration when he was really pushing my buttons. Would she consider those

two incidents " physically abusive " ?

> " AS women say that their physical health suffers because of their

> relationship. "

Uh, no. Only if I were married to an ass like I was in my first marriage.

Who is now on marriage #6. I was his second wife.

> " The majority of AS adults feel there are no benefits to having AS. "

Not most of the ones I have talked to online!

> There

> doesn't appear to be a chapter on the NT abuse of an AS partner, which is

> *much* more often the case from the autistics I have spoken to.

Yeah, thinking of my first marriage again.

If this is what the book is like, I won't bother reading it. Too bad. I was

hoping for better things from it.

Take care,

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

> I wrote this same response to 's review on another list, so

for some

> of you it might be a repeat.

>

> Exactly what is this supposed to mean? Does it mean a one time

slap, or

> serious hitting? I have slapped Dick one or two times (not hard) in

> frustration when he was really pushing my buttons. Would she

consider those

> two incidents " physically abusive " ?

Yeah, me? - I would plummet my hubby with pillows when he pushed me

too far. Real violent, I am. oooOOOoooOOOhhhh He's sweet, but has his

selfish moments and expects too much of me sometimes.

> > " AS women say that their physical health suffers because of their

> > relationship. "

>

> Uh, no. Only if I were married to an ass like I was in my first

marriage.

> Who is now on marriage #6. I was his second wife.

I also have an ex who was a total jerk. Only time I was ever

violent, he pushed me to knock me down and I kicked him in the

stomach. I think that's a normal reaction. I was his first wife, he

is now recently divorced to number 4. That one lasted half a year. He

was still married to number 3 when he was engaged to a new woman,

that wedding never happened. When he finally did marry again, it

lasted a half a year.

>

>

> > " The majority of AS adults feel there are no benefits to having

AS. "

>

> Not most of the ones I have talked to online!

I love being who I am & wouldn't want to be NT if I had a choice. It

seems to me a majority of AS adults like who they are!

Lori

[Guest guest]

> , I'd never heard of this book. It sounds awful.

> Do you know the putlisher?

Kingsley, as always.

--

" I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out. "

-Judge Harold T. Stone

[Guest guest]

, I'd never heard of this book. It sounds awful.

Do you know the putlisher?

Jane

[Guest guest]

Gail Pennington danced around singing:

> > " A majority of AS women are at some time physically abusive towards their

> > partners. "

>

>Exactly what is this supposed to mean? Does it mean a one time slap, or

>serious hitting? I have slapped Dick one or two times (not hard) in

>frustration when he was really pushing my buttons. Would she consider those

>two incidents " physically abusive " ?

I looked it up...another quote from within the chapter:

" In all of the cases, the violence involved hitting, punching, or

kicking. In one case the violence committed was quite extreme and

long-term. " (p. 141)

Personally, I have to wonder what degree of harassment the women cited

might have been receiving to be that nasty. I've been that horrible

before, but ONLY towards someone that was threatening me or deliberately

pushing me into a meltdown.

> > " AS women say that their physical health suffers because of their

> > relationship. "

>

>Uh, no. Only if I were married to an ass like I was in my first marriage.

>Who is now on marriage #6. I was his second wife.

Same here. I became extremely ill and was a physical wreck the whole time

I was in my first long-term relationship with an abusive jerk. I reached

several points where I was on the verge of killing myself just to escape

the physical implications of his verbal abuse. Ironically he behaved

basically the way other parts of the book go on, by disrupting my routines,

accusing me of being abusive, telling me I was deliberately cold, etc. My

second one, otoh, has overall been very *good* for my health.

> > " The majority of AS adults feel there are no benefits to having AS. "

>

>Not most of the ones I have talked to online!

Exactly! Almost all of the ones I've known online found tons of benefits,

and most of the autobiographies I've read by ACs mentioned enjoying

benefits. I know I certainly have.

> > There

> > doesn't appear to be a chapter on the NT abuse of an AS partner, which is

> > *much* more often the case from the autistics I have spoken to.

>

>Yeah, thinking of my first marriage again.

Exactly... I was thinking of my first LTR and that of many other AS people

I've known. Also, according to statistics, people with disabilities are

three times *more* likely to be abused than their " normal "

counterparts. Having a book go on as if we were typically the abusers is

just horrifying; if nothing else it reinforces the concept that we need to

be treated harshly.

>If this is what the book is like, I won't bother reading it. Too bad. I was

>hoping for better things from it.

Yeah, I rather wish I hadn't driven a couple cities away to the bookstore

and paid $25 for a book that just made me upset. I could return it, but I

hate having to return books... I'll just add it to the list of titles I'm

willing to lend to other ACs.

DeGraf | Moderator - AS-and-Proud-of-it, AspergersCircle

HFAutistic, born 1977 | AS Partner Parrish, born 1968

http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>>Personally, I have to wonder what degree of harassment the women cited

might have been receiving to be that nasty. I've been that horrible

before, but ONLY towards someone that was threatening me or deliberately

pushing me into a meltdown.<<

Exactly! I just had a woman on the other list tell me that my slapping Dick

was physical abuse and that she and her hubby would never do it. I saw red

when I read that. I am a non-violent person by nature and hate hurting

anything or anyone. When I go into a meltdown I will scream, cry and hit

objects, but hit someone only if extememly pushed.

I only slapped Dick after screaming at him to stop and he kept provoking me.

He admitted later that he deserved what he got. I don't call what I did

physical abuse. I call it self defense. Dick was more insulted by the slaps

than hurt physically. He admitted that he hardly felt them. It got his

attention though that he was crossing way over the line!

Responses like that woman gave me reminds me why I do not like to post

personal things on mixed (NT/AS) lists. I hate getting ignorant comments

like that. I admire the way you handle such comments and people. I admit

that I cannot. I would get too angry. Online I don't like to let people see

me get angry (unless it is on someone elses behalf). I ignore them instead.

>>My

second one, otoh, has overall been very *good* for my health.

Same here! Dick takes a lot of stress off me and I am very relaxed around

him most of the time.

>>Exactly! Almost all of the ones I've known online found tons of benefits,

and most of the autobiographies I've read by ACs mentioned enjoying

benefits. I know I certainly have.<<

I would not want to be NT. Enough said. :-)

>>Exactly... I was thinking of my first LTR and that of many other AS people

I've known. Also, according to statistics, people with disabilities are

three times *more* likely to be abused than their " normal "

counterparts. Having a book go on as if we were typically the abusers is

just horrifying; if nothing else it reinforces the concept that we need to

be treated harshly.<<

Yes! Most of the abuse I have gone through was in verbal and mental form,

but very bad for many years. These days I am good at defending and

protecting myself. There was a time that I felt I didn't have the right and

just took it. I had such low self esteem back then. That is the reason that

woman on the other list made me so angry!!! I couldn't comprehend the rest

of her post I was so mad.

Take care,

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

> Here are some direct quotes from chapter summaries that my research and

> firsthand experience show are quite inaccurate:

> " Women with Asperger Syndrome have greater emotional needs than men with AS. "

That explains why I've never been able to tell what gender an autistic

person is by what their stated emotional needs are. (Oh yeah, forgot,

we're not supposed to be able to use sarcasm either.)

> " AS adults do not have the benefit of natural intuition and insightful

> thought. "

I recently got into a long argument with someone on another forum, who

said in the same general breath:

1) Autistic people who take tech jobs *only do so because they fulfill

a stereotype*.

2) Autistic people should be stopped from merely fulfilling

stereotypes, and thus should not be encouraged to take tech jobs.

3) Autistic people are not capable of insight, and therefore are not

capable of deciding what to call themselves *or* what jobs to have.

4) This person supposedly knew this because of their involvement in

*disability rights*, and the rest of us were just too uneducated on the

subject to understand the huge importance of this or the big picture in

things.

(They'd apparently never heard of " self-determination " or " social model

theory " , but still claimed I was *under*educated. But they did prove my

point that a lot of people say " self-determination " and mean

" self-determination until non-disabled people become uncomfortable with

the results " .)

We (mostly autistic people on the forum) had a lot to say on the

presence and absence of insight in both autistic people and

neurotypicals. (There are wide ranges of insight in both.) This person

cited extremely flawed studies to show that autistic people had no

insight (the studies did not measure insight -- they measured things

like body awareness).

> " AS men say they feel threatened when asked direct questions by their

> partners. "

My dad gets very frustrated when my mom *won't* ask him a direct

question or give him a direct answer.

> " Most AS women ... do not feel threatened when making personal disclosures

> to their partners. "

Oh?

> " Premature ejaculation and retarded ejaculation are about control. " (in AS

men)

I wouldn't know.

> " A majority of AS women are at some time physically abusive towards their

> partners. "

I've never been, but I've had people be physically abusive to *me*. And

that's the story I generally hear.

> " AS women say that their physical health suffers because of their

> relationship. "

My physical health would suffer if I were around *anyone* too much, but

it's doubtful that this has anything to do with autism. (Or if

anything, it's a combination of *unrelated* health problems -- that

exist whether I'm around people or not -- with the fact that

socialization takes up a lot of mental resources, thus not letting me

rest enough.)

> " The majority of AS adults feel there are no benefits to having AS. "

Strange, that one.

Although I just skimmed _American Normal_ in a bookstore. (Please don't

shell out money for that one -- if nobody's been notified already, it

contains misinformation bordering on libel about some of the autistic

people in it, but the reviews mentioning this were deleted from Amazon

(for awhile, though, a review *wasn't* deleted that referred to one of

the least pompous people I've ever met as " pompous " and disagreed with

the concept that there could be *any* factual errors in the book, even

though there were clear ones that even the publisher admits to).

There's a correction on the publisher's website for *one* of the

mistakes, but it's not sent out with the book and there were several

other mistakes made.)

The man who wrote _American Normal_ interviewed a whole lot of autistic

people, but took the ones displaying the most depression and self-hatred

as the most " genuinely representative of the true core of the Asperger

experience, unvarnished by professional optimism " (or something like

that). He made anyone who liked themselves sound self-serving, and made

a panel of autism speakers sound as if they were all competing to be the

" worst off " (it sounded more like they were saying ideas and sort of

bouncing off the ideas to create more ideas to talk about, which I see

in a lot of autistic communication).

Anyone who read *that* would think that self-hatred was the norm.

(I don't really think of " liking autism " in terms of a strict

cost-benefit ratio (not how my mind works), but even most people who

hate autism seem to realize there are good points to it.)

> There are also two *chapters* dedicated to how verbally and physically

> abusive AS people, particularly men, are towards their partners. I

> personally find this infuriating -- all of the AS men I have known are

> totally nonviolent, far more than the NT men I've been around!

Not true for me, but I don't know that autistic men are any *more*

violent than any other men.

> This is in comparison to 1.5 pages on the " benefits " of AS, most of which

> was spent saying there are no benefits aside from an increased attention

> span. Most of the people with AS I know are *far* from believing there's

> " no benefit " to autism, so again, this is likely a function of the sort of

> people she interviewed -- those in failing relationships.

Yes. Plus she may have interpreted even what she was told fairly

liberally.

> There is some benefit to the book in that it gives the " AS perspective " at

> a few points, but you could get that much more pleasantly from reading any

> of the wonderful biographies by people with Aspergers.

I don't find them all " wonderful " (I find some of them extremely

difficult to get through, repetitious of the ones that have come before,

and/or boring, among other things; then again I've got about 50 books by

and/or coauthored by and/or edited by autistic people at last count),

but I do like collecting them, and I would say they'd give a more

genuine perspective on things than a relationship counselor could

provide.

> I'm also posting a version of this to Amazon.com so in a few days, if this

> review has affected your decision on whether to buy the book or not, please

> mark it " helpful " next time you visit the site.

I will. I saw it in a store (I tend to comb autism-related sections for

Kingsley books, since they seem to publish the most stuff by

autistic people (although I really wish someone else would, because the

editing jobs on Kingsley books seem pretty terrible at times))

and wasn't sure whether to waste time on it or not. I remember skimming

through it and grumbling, but I don't remember much else.

--

" Contrary to rumor, no one has ever lost a tail in a disk drive door. "

-Your Cat's Guide to Your Computer

[Guest guest]

I was violent in a relationship once and damn it was good. i got knocked

around a lot so when i found NT hubby so drunk he could not walk into the house

and had collapsed on the grass I kicked the shit out of him. Next day he was

covered in bruises and had no idea how it had happened. that was one of my

finest hours, and nothing will make me regret it.

why didnt i leave? as paralysis and an inability to make personal disclosures

face to face to anybody.

Message: 1

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:24:45 -0700

Subject: " Aspergers In Love " -- new book by Maxine Aston

I am highly active in the online autism community, have high functioning

autism, am in a wonderful relationship with an Asperger's man, have an AS

father and also an AS best friend. I find this book not only inaccurate

based on what I have seen in the ACs online, but in many places outright

insulting of everyone I've known on the spectrum. She bases all of her

" research " on 41 people with Asperger's and paints the whole AS community

with the results. Take into consideration that AS people likely to be in

relationship counseling or other ways Aston might have contacted them are

probably ones in seriously troubled relationships -- imho they are *not*

representative of us as a community or our ability to be wonderful partners.

Here are some direct quotes from chapter summaries that my research and

firsthand experience show are quite inaccurate:

" Women with Asperger Syndrome have greater emotional needs than men with AS. "

" AS adults do not have the benefit of natural intuition and insightful

thought. "

" AS men say they feel threatened when asked direct questions by their

partners. "

" Most AS women ... do not feel threatened when making personal disclosures

to their partners. "

" Premature ejaculation and retarded ejaculation are about control. " (in AS men)

" A majority of AS women are at some time physically abusive towards their

partners. "

" AS women say that their physical health suffers because of their

relationship. "

" The majority of AS adults feel there are no benefits to having AS. "

There are also two *chapters* dedicated to how verbally and physically

abusive AS people, particularly men, are towards their partners. I

personally find this infuriating -- all of the AS men I have known are

totally nonviolent, far more than the NT men I've been around! There

doesn't appear to be a chapter on the NT abuse of an AS partner, which is

*much* more often the case from the autistics I have spoken to. Cases in

the book where there's seriously abnormal/damaging behavior commonly found

in humanity in general is erroneously attributed to AS instead of saying

that the person just might have an unrelated problem.

This is in comparison to 1.5 pages on the " benefits " of AS, most of which

was spent saying there are no benefits aside from an increased attention

span. Most of the people with AS I know are *far* from believing there's

" no benefit " to autism, so again, this is likely a function of the sort of

people she interviewed -- those in failing relationships.

There is some benefit to the book in that it gives the " AS perspective " at

a few points, but you could get that much more pleasantly from reading any

of the wonderful biographies by people with Aspergers. There isn't much of

anything on AC-AC relationships, and what little there wasn't exactly

impressive.

I'm also posting a version of this to Amazon.com so in a few days, if this

review has affected your decision on whether to buy the book or not, please

mark it " helpful " next time you visit the site.

__________________________________________________________________

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