Consultants and Remediators [was: Vegas IAQ professional]

[Guest guest]

IMO, the conflict of interest and potential for abuse are self-

evident. let's face it, there are plenty of rats and foxes in our

ranks, and the financial motivation is irresistible to some.

a remediation plan, sampling and analysis (when warranted), so-

called " clearance " samples and so on are part and parcel of nearly

all projects.

except in the case of very small abatement efforts, the client will

be best served by keeping the consultant, remediator and analytical

lab financially separate -- it's a common sense way to protect all

stakeholders.

S520 and their description of the IEP began to make this distinction,

but future versions really must do more to protect the public in this

critical aspect.

the legal beagles and our court systems are beginning to respond to

this issue and the message is clear: maintain separation among these

entities.

others are certain to disagree (which is why we end up in

litigation).

regards,

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH, RPIH

Director, Air Quality Services

" Bad air gets you down "

MICHAELS ENGINEERING INC.

811 Monitor Street, Suite 100

PO Box 2377

La Crosse, Wisconsin 54602

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@...

On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com

" To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be

more fun? "

- Graham

> Dear ,

>

> That is such an old saying " it's like asking a rat to guard the

cheese "

> or the " fox to guard the hen house " etc. I do not think that would

apply

> here unless you classify IAQ professionals as rats or foxes.

>

> You also added something that was not addressed. No one asked for

post

> remediation verification or clearance. Having someone trained,

> qualified, and certified to conduct inspection and remediation in my

> opinion is not a conflict of interest. You also stated retrieving

> relevant samples, writing a

> remediation plan, these issues were never brought up as well.

>

> There were two issues brought up. The first was to conduct an

> investigation.

> The second was to conduct remediation.

>

> If you wanted to, you could then have a third party conduct as you

> stated

> perform post-remediation verification, or clearance. Currently I am

> unaware of any such standard or protocol to establish IAQ

> post-remediation verification or clearance. However, I agree with

you

> about having a third party to conduct the post-remediation for

> verification only. I believe there are many firms that are trained

and

> qualified in the IAQ industry that can perform

> investigations/inspections and remediation of mold related IAQ

concerns.

>

[Guest guest]

Group:

This is an extremely frustrating issue for me...

For the majority, I feel that performing sampling, remediation, and

post-remediation sampling can be a huge conflict of interest. A large number of

these companies are taking people for a ride, so to speak.

But here's where it gets interesting...

In my neck of the woods, besides the environmental company I work for, there

are three other main companies. My standards, integrity, and work ethic are a

bit different from some of these others, as I don't see " mold as gold. " I see

frustrated people, some of whom are ill, trying to pick up the pieces and get on

with their lives...

Some recent examples from the last week:

1) I was hired to do post-remediation sampling after one of these companies

performed remediation based on their own pre-remediation sampling (which was

done on MOVING DAY)and the counts really were not very significant. The report

focused on TOXIC, blah blah blah. This company's idea of remediation was to

saturate everything with 10% bleach solution and give it a coat of Killz paint.

I got there & said " you're kidding me right?! " They had already painted the

whole attic. When I told the " project manager " to not paint anything else until

I had done my sampling and that he better get busy sanding and HEPA vacuuming,

he asked me if the standards had changed or something. Jeesh! I called the

owner of the company (who I know quite well) to give him hell, and he

tried to compare it to encapsulating asbestos fibers. Double jeesh! This is a

" reputable " company around here.

2) Received a phone call today from a person who'd been referred to me by a

past client. He's trying to sell his home, and the potential buyers had hired

one of the other " reputable " companies to provide a " mold assessment " or

whatever you wish to call it. I had him fax me a copy of the report which

stated the home was " in need of bioremediation " due to the " very elevated counts

of toxic mold " this report was based on 3 wall check samples. That's it! No

outdoor control, no non-suspect area. Not to mention the " toxic " statement. How

do you know by that??!! Talk about frustrating...

3) The third " reputable " company has the highest outdoor counts I've ever

seen, which leads me to believe they're either shaking a bush or throwing dirt

around while they're sampling... To " pass " clearance perhaps?

This doesn't even touch on all the other carpet cleaning companies, etc.

around here that are performing mold remediation. And people in our industry

whine about people calling it " junk science. " Can you blame them?

....................

So, what's my point? Having the ability, integrity, equipment, etc. to

perform a small remediation, I have a very hard time sending a client off to the

wolves if I've explained the industry views on conflict of interest,etc.

I would have no problem helping out a widow trying to sell her house, if it

meant saving her from a company charging her 10 times what they should to paint

over the mold with Killz. Give me a break.

What a weird industry this is. I'm challenged by it every day and delighted

to be helping people, yet disgusted by it on an almost daily basis as well.

Good thing I just got a bumper sticker that says " Well-behaved women seldom

make history!' I know I keep saying it, but until the public is educated in

a calm, logical, factual manner, which by the way won't come from the media,

it's not going to get better for a long while. Maybe we should all go on a

DANDER SPREE with the media. Or what about BACTERIA- I REALLY WANNA HEAR YA!

I think that's rather catchy!

Sorry about the lengthy rant ...........

Warmest Regards,

Stacey Champion

Secret Santa To The Stars/ Vortex Vixen

....................

Consultants and Remediators [was: Vegas IAQ

professional]

IMO, the conflict of interest and potential for abuse are self-

evident. let's face it, there are plenty of rats and foxes in our

ranks, and the financial motivation is irresistible to some.

a remediation plan, sampling and analysis (when warranted), so-

called " clearance " samples and so on are part and parcel of nearly

all projects.

except in the case of very small abatement efforts, the client will

be best served by keeping the consultant, remediator and analytical

lab financially separate -- it's a common sense way to protect all

stakeholders.

S520 and their description of the IEP began to make this distinction,

but future versions really must do more to protect the public in this

critical aspect.

the legal beagles and our court systems are beginning to respond to

this issue and the message is clear: maintain separation among these

entities.

others are certain to disagree (which is why we end up in

litigation).

regards,

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH, RPIH

Director, Air Quality Services

" Bad air gets you down "

MICHAELS ENGINEERING INC.

811 Monitor Street, Suite 100

PO Box 2377

La Crosse, Wisconsin 54602

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@...

On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com

" To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be

more fun? "

- Graham

> Dear ,

>

> That is such an old saying " it's like asking a rat to guard the

cheese "

> or the " fox to guard the hen house " etc. I do not think that would

apply

> here unless you classify IAQ professionals as rats or foxes.

>

> You also added something that was not addressed. No one asked for

post

> remediation verification or clearance. Having someone trained,

> qualified, and certified to conduct inspection and remediation in my

> opinion is not a conflict of interest. You also stated retrieving

> relevant samples, writing a

> remediation plan, these issues were never brought up as well.

>

> There were two issues brought up. The first was to conduct an

> investigation.

> The second was to conduct remediation.

>

> If you wanted to, you could then have a third party conduct as you

> stated

> perform post-remediation verification, or clearance. Currently I am

> unaware of any such standard or protocol to establish IAQ

> post-remediation verification or clearance. However, I agree with

you

> about having a third party to conduct the post-remediation for

> verification only. I believe there are many firms that are trained

and

> qualified in the IAQ industry that can perform

> investigations/inspections and remediation of mold related IAQ

concerns.

>

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[Guest guest]

Way to Go Stacey!!!

Pat. Wyatt

Stacey Champion wrote:

> Group:

>

> This is an extremely frustrating issue for me...

> For the majority, I feel that performing sampling, remediation, and

> post-remediation sampling can be a huge conflict of interest. A large

> number of these companies are taking people for a ride, so to speak.

>

[Guest guest]

Mold remediation costs money. Serious money. And when complete,

your home or building is just back to normal. Now who in their

right mind would want to spend 10k, 20k, 30k just to have

things " back " . Most folks would like to spend that cash on a

vacation, new car, an interior remodel, etc.

My observation is that mold remediation most frequently occurrs in

situations where it is " other peoples money " being spent.

Situations where large sums of cash are availible. The top three

examples are: 1.)An insurance claim, 2.)A liability issue such as

tenant vs. landlord, homebuyer vs. builder, employee union vs. HR

Dept., 3.)Real Estate Transaction

Now then, I submitt to you that examples number 1 & 2 above are

normally closely watched, or I should say, at least have folks

involved that might have been through the mold-game a few times.

Example number 3 is unwatched, is full of sitting ducks, is the best

place for a mold-is-gold operation to focus its business. There is

often a hugh time pressure on the seller and there is cash availible

in the equity. AND, many sellers are not represented by some sort

of mold-savvy advisor. It is for this reason that I have high

suspicions of any business, consultant, remediator, inspection

equipment manufacturer or laboratory that PRIMARILY focuses on this

portion of the market. The oportunity for inproprieties are

tremendous and this cheese attracts a certain level of rat.

Now, to change subjects slightly, The Digital Diagnostics DIS-10

system provides quick on-site laboratory results, without the sample

ever being handled by the lab. I've come accross lab reports

produced by Digital Diagnostics on about 15 occasions. It appears

they use unusual grouping techniques to sort spores into rather

large categories. I wonder if this is a way to get around the poor

analytical resolution. Interesting that I've only seen it used by

folks who focus on real estate transactions.

Gerber