Do Not Leave Sweetened Tea At Room Temperature Overnight

[Guest guest]

Hi EveryOne,

Please do not leave sweetened tea overnight at room temperature to cool...

It has been reported that toxic substances, either bacteria or molds I don't

remember which were found in some restaurant iced teas that had been left

overnight at room temperature.

Safer to use less water for your tea, sugar, water mixture and then cool it

right away with the rest of the water. The only time that would be a problem

is if you have to boil your water before you drink it. Then all of it should

also be boiled for making Kombucha.

Happy Healthy Brewing!

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev

Manna International: Kombucha Information and Resources

Kombucha Drops - Convenient, Safe, Effective, Easy to use.

http://KMI.mannainternational.com

Manna Green & White Tea Extract - Liquid Green & White Tea Extract

http://GTE.mannainternational.com

All products made with 100% Certified Organic Ingredients

Made and packaged in glass, not plastic!

[Guest guest]

I always leave my KT brew ovrernight to cool as it takes SO LONG. Then

I remove the tea bags in the morning. Should we not be doing this? Carol B

>

> Hi EveryOne,

>

> Please do not leave sweetened tea overnight at room temperature to

cool...

> It has been reported that toxic substances, either bacteria or molds

I don't

> remember which were found in some restaurant iced teas that had been

left

> overnight at room temperature.

>

> Safer to use less water for your tea, sugar, water mixture and then

cool it

> right away with the rest of the water. The only time that would be a

problem

> is if you have to boil your water before you drink it. Then all of

it should

> also be boiled for making Kombucha.

>

> Happy Healthy Brewing!

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

> Manna International: Kombucha Information and Resources

> Kombucha Drops - Convenient, Safe, Effective, Easy to use.

> http://KMI.mannainternational.com

> Manna Green & White Tea Extract - Liquid Green & White Tea Extract

> http://GTE.mannainternational.com

> All products made with 100% Certified Organic Ingredients

> Made and packaged in glass, not plastic!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Please do not leave sweetened tea overnight at room temperature to cool...

>It has been reported that toxic substances, either bacteria or molds I don't

>remember which were found in some restaurant iced teas that had been left

>overnight at room temperature.

>

>Safer to use less water for your tea, sugar, water mixture and then cool it

>right away with the rest of the water. The only time that would be a problem

>is if you have to boil your water before you drink it. Then all of it should

>also be boiled for making Kombucha.

Yes, but, if that's the case, people would still be better off to boil the

water and let it cool plain. Then still boil the small amount for steeping

the tea. Don't let tea, sweetened or not, sit around at room temp.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

At 04:06 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote:

> >Please do not leave sweetened tea overnight at room temperature to cool...

> >It has been reported that toxic substances, either bacteria or molds I don't

> >remember which were found in some restaurant iced teas that had been left

> >overnight at room temperature.

It's been awhile since I read the story, but I believe it had something to

do with the spigot on the big containers in which the restaurants and fast

food places kept the tea. I have worked in both and the container is

usually on the counter, unrefrigerated.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Canfield

~Well done is better than well said.~

" For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. " Romans

10:13

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the explanation. Makes sence to me. Carol B

>

> > >Please do not leave sweetened tea overnight at room temperature

to cool...

> > >It has been reported that toxic substances, either bacteria or

molds I don't

> > >remember which were found in some restaurant iced teas that had

been left

> > >overnight at room temperature.

>

> It's been awhile since I read the story, but I believe it had

something to

> do with the spigot on the big containers in which the restaurants

and fast

> food places kept the tea. I have worked in both and the container is

> usually on the counter, unrefrigerated.

>

>

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

>

> Canfield

>

> ~Well done is better than well said.~

>

> " For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. "

Romans

> 10:13

>

>

[Guest guest]

>What about making KT? I was told to add the sugar when the water had

>boiled, stir and put in the tea bags. Then to let completely cool

>which I do over night as it takes so long for my large stanless steel

>pot to cool. So now what do we do? Suggestions? Carol B

A. Do not boil all your water unless you have no other way to get rid of

the chlorine. Filtered water is really best. Virtually all water filters

take out the chlorine, it's very easy to remove. Boiling the water

actually damages the water (removes oxygen), so it's really really best to

avoid boiling all the water for KT, if at all possible. I know that you

were told to boil all the water, but that is outmoded information and the

water question is way more complicated than that.

B. Only boil 2 cups of water and steep your tea in that. Put the bulk of

your clear water in your vessel, and add the steeped, sweetened 2 cups of

tea, stir. Voila! instantly and immediately cool and ready for the SCOBY

and starter.

If this isn't clear, please ask questions

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

I drink regular hot tea most days, and even unsweetened tea grows mold if

left to sit. It is not healthy to let the tea, especially sweetened tea,

sit out, even just overnight. Sweetened tea is a giant mold vector. Only

the acidity of the starter and SCOBY will ensure that process doesn't begin.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

What if you were to add some acidic kombucha to the fresh tea while

it's cooling? It should keep it very acidic, without actually

fermenting till it's cooled and you put the Kombucha culture in.

Yaakov

>

> I drink regular hot tea most days, and even unsweetened tea grows mold if

> left to sit. It is not healthy to let the tea, especially sweetened tea,

> sit out, even just overnight. Sweetened tea is a giant mold vector. Only

> the acidity of the starter and SCOBY will ensure that process doesn't begin.

[Guest guest]

I've worked in food service before, and you'd be suprised how poorly

those spigots are cleaned sometimes.

Yaakov

> It's been awhile since I read the story, but I believe it had something to

> do with the spigot on the big containers in which the restaurants and fast

> food places kept the tea. I have worked in both and the container is

> usually on the counter, unrefrigerated.

[Guest guest]

>What if you were to add some acidic kombucha to the fresh tea while

>it's cooling? It should keep it very acidic, without actually

>fermenting till it's cooled and you put the Kombucha culture in.

>Yaakov

No. The hot liquid would kill the bacteria in the starter, not what is

wanted. What is the problem with only boiling a small amount of water and

steeping the tea in that? It uses less fuel, it's better for the

water. The instructions to boil all the water are based on a desire to

make a fail-safe rule for everyone to follow, but it makes no

sense. Everyone needs to assess their water situation on an individual basis.

If you have to boil the water because your water is unsafe to drink without

it, then boil the water, let it cool without any tea in it. Then when

that's cooled, boil 2 cups and steep the tea in that, and proceed.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>

> >What if you were to add some acidic kombucha to the fresh tea while

> >it's cooling? It should keep it very acidic, without actually

> >fermenting till it's cooled and you put the Kombucha culture in.

> >Yaakov

>

> No. The hot liquid would kill the bacteria in the starter, not what is

> wanted.

I mean, just for the acid, and a lesser amount. You'll still be

adding your proper amount of kombucha later when you put the scoby.

[Guest guest]

>B. Only boil 2 cups of water and steep your tea in that. Put the bulk of

>your clear water in your vessel, and add the steeped, sweetened 2 cups of

>tea, stir. Voila! instantly and immediately cool and ready for the SCOBY

>and starter.

>

>If this isn't clear, please ask questions

Morning V

Seem like my comment on letting tea cool over night has really gotten

things started. Steeping and for desolving the sugar in 2 cups of

water then adding additional cool water would really cut down the

cycle time to get a fresh batch going. What size batch is the 2 cup

recommendation for? Intuitively seems about right for say 3 quarts

but a little light for say 9 quarts. Of course like so many thing

I'm discovering about KT it might not matter at all.

Bill

[Guest guest]

> If you have to boil the water because your water is unsafe to drink

without

> it, then boil the water, let it cool without any tea in it. Then when

> that's cooled, boil 2 cups and steep the tea in that, and proceed.

Alternately, you can use the ice bath method to quickly cool down the

water by filling your sink with cold water (perhaps with some ice

cubes) and placing the pot full of hot tea/water in it. This will

quickly cool down the tea so that you can add your starter. I do this

fairly often for KT brewing as well as quickly cooling stocks and

soups for refrigeration.

Steve

[Guest guest]

I always wondered about that as I do use filtered water. I was feeling

guilty for not letting it boil for 5 minutes. LOL So how long do you

steep your tea? Very interesting. Carol B

>

>

> >What about making KT? I was told to add the sugar when the water had

> >boiled, stir and put in the tea bags. Then to let completely cool

> >which I do over night as it takes so long for my large stanless steel

> >pot to cool. So now what do we do? Suggestions? Carol B

>

> A. Do not boil all your water unless you have no other way to get

rid of

> the chlorine. Filtered water is really best. Virtually all water

filters

> take out the chlorine, it's very easy to remove. Boiling the water

> actually damages the water (removes oxygen), so it's really really

best to

> avoid boiling all the water for KT, if at all possible. I know that

you

> were told to boil all the water, but that is outmoded information

and the

> water question is way more complicated than that.

>

> B. Only boil 2 cups of water and steep your tea in that. Put the

bulk of

> your clear water in your vessel, and add the steeped, sweetened 2

cups of

> tea, stir. Voila! instantly and immediately cool and ready for the

SCOBY

> and starter.

>

> If this isn't clear, please ask questions

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

The thing that gets me is that I didn't know that boiling water was

bad for the water. Glad I joined this group and became more active.

:-) Carol B

> > If you have to boil the water because your water is unsafe to drink

> without

> > it, then boil the water, let it cool without any tea in it. Then

when

> > that's cooled, boil 2 cups and steep the tea in that, and proceed.

>

>

> Alternately, you can use the ice bath method to quickly cool down the

> water by filling your sink with cold water (perhaps with some ice

> cubes) and placing the pot full of hot tea/water in it. This will

> quickly cool down the tea so that you can add your starter. I do this

> fairly often for KT brewing as well as quickly cooling stocks and

> soups for refrigeration.

>

> Steve

>

[Guest guest]

Awhile ago I tried to contact Lipton Tea and other big names

and asked " How long will the tea remain safe for drinking? "

and I never received any replies. A second question I asked

was " how can I tell when the tea is no longer safe to

drink? " No replies there either.

the link to Lipton Tea contact page is

http://www.liptont.com/contact_us/contact_us.asp

On Lipton's web site Q & A they give this response

Q: After I make iced tea, how long can I store it in the

refrigerator?

A: For best quality, we recommend that you use it within 72

hours.

Ice tea - if meaning made in the sun tea manner (glass jar,

water, tea, in the sun) is notoriously more dangerous than

brewed tea though still safe and popular summer drink. Ice

tea and Sun tea is supposed to reduce the caffeine effect or

have an medicinal advantage.

There is also something about the danger of reusing a tea

bag, and how long may a used t-bag be kept for. Some say not

to do it at all (Lipton) , some say its OK, some say if

refrigerated.

These questions have been around for many years and IMO, not

adequately addressed publicly. Yet IMO, they are a real

concern to these industry giants wary of possible health

related lawsuits. My suspicion is that they are adding

pesticides and preservatives that would forestall any

initial pathogens. My own kitchen counter test of a used

t-bag did not result in any noticeable mold for over one

week.

Then the question becomes how safe are those teas as food

for our kombucha's - not considering how safe are they for

us humans.

Lipton tea bags have a _shelf life_ of from 12-18 months.

How they come to that conclusion I have no idea. Herbs that

are powdered (as tea that is for use in t-bags are)

generally are given a shelf life of 1-2 years before they

are considered ineffective. I am not a chemist, but I don't

think that nitrogen will break down in that time. Nitrogen

is (according to Guenther ) is what the kombucha is

after. Pesticides and preservatives, on the other hand do

break down faster ...

When you add _sugar_ one changes the dynamics considerably.

For us, cooling down the sweeten tea is the most dangerous

aspect and most likely point of contamination. Not having

the sweeten tea covered dramatically increases that danger.

And the lower the temperature the greater the danger. The

danger is not only from ever present mold spores but from

wild air born yeasts and bacteria including sub-species of

acetic bacteria. The air born acetic b. is needed for the

production of vinegar and certain lactic acid ferments.

Perhaps that is why Roussin in his research found

differences even to identical side by side ferments.

Three common methods of preparing the sweeten tea.

1. fill the sink with cold water and set the sweeten tea pot

in the cold bath. Allowing the cold water to run will

shorten the time. Initial while the temperature is over 190F

the cover may be off but should definitely be on as the

temperature goes below 190F.

2. Make a concentrated sweeten tea. Use the full proportion

but less water. (Say 1/2). Then add the remaining water

(1/2) back in to cool. One idea is to pre-boil the cooling

water and then cool that down. Or use room temperature water

of known quality. This is simply a modified Ice-tea recipe.

3. Use your coffee maker (Mr. Coffee style) to make a pot of

tea instead of coffee. Use the same amount, or slightly more

of tea that you normally use just make only one pot (or

less) of tea. Use a coffee filter for loose leaf teas or

just the tea bags without the coffee filter if using t-bags.

While the water is still hot add the sugar. When the sugar

is dissolved add the sweeten tea to more room temperature

water to bring the total volume to your size container.

Boiling is considered necessary to remove chlorine but does

little in the way of " sterilization " unless done so for

twenty plus minutes and then under pressure. Over boiling

water may deplete needed oxygen from the water and starve

the ferment. IMO, water should be hot enough to steep the

tea and dissolve the sugar, no more. Water should be of

known quality chlorine-free. Salt usually added to bottled

water is not harmful to kombucha (as long as it is

chlorine-free). Some people, especially those it seems with

bakers experience, actually add a pinch of salt to the

kombucha ferment. People have reported successfully

fermenting kombucha in well water and tap water and thus

kombucha is not a science but remains an art.

live free and healthy

Ed Kasper L.Ac., Acupuncturist & Medicinal Herbalist

http://HappyHerbalist.com eddy@...

[Guest guest]

Carol, if you have filtered water, you DO NOT need to boil your water, at

all. period. Only boil a small amount for steeping the tea. I steep the

tea at various lengths depending on the tea, but 5 minutes, 10 minutes max.

--V

>I always wondered about that as I do use filtered water. I was feeling

>guilty for not letting it boil for 5 minutes. LOL So how long do you

>steep your tea? Very interesting. Carol B

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>The thing that gets me is that I didn't know that boiling water was

>bad for the water. Glad I joined this group and became more active.

>:-) Carol B

I'm glad you did too. The instruction to boil the water was no doubt

intended to make sure that everyone got rid of chlorine, and perhaps there

was concern over microorganisms. But the KT is so dominant a culture, and

we provide the water with such a huge majority of the KT organisms, that it

overwhelms anything that may be present. And, as Ed mentioned, boiling is

not an adequate sterilization method in any case.

So, the instruction to boil all the water originated somewhere, no doubt

with completely good intentions, but it's really not a good universal

requirement, at all. The instruction should be that each person needs to

assess their water source, that chlorine and chloramine must be removed

from the water, that filtered water is almost always completely safe in

terms of the chlor factors, etc.

And the trouble with the KT world is that because the tradition has not

been continuous in the West, we've been having to reinvent the wheel about

the knowledge required. So one source makes a statement, and then other

sources take that statement as truth and pass it along, and pretty soon we

have a " rule " that is simply not based in useful practice. Boiling all the

water is one of those.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

REALLY? My original instructions said to leave the tea for 30 minutes

or until cool. 10 minutes? My oh my. This job is going to get easier.

:-) THANKS, Carol B

>

> Carol, if you have filtered water, you DO NOT need to boil your

water, at

> all. period. Only boil a small amount for steeping the tea. I

steep the

> tea at various lengths depending on the tea, but 5 minutes, 10

minutes max.

>

> --V

>

> >I always wondered about that as I do use filtered water. I was feeling

> >guilty for not letting it boil for 5 minutes. LOL So how long do you

> >steep your tea? Very interesting. Carol B

>

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

Why on earth would one add salt unless it was to balance the

electrolytes and HOPEFULLY NOT talbe salt but something like celtic

sea salt. Carol B

>

> Awhile ago I tried to contact Lipton Tea and other big names

> and asked " How long will the tea remain safe for drinking? "

> and I never received any replies. A second question I asked

> was " how can I tell when the tea is no longer safe to

> drink? " No replies there either.

> the link to Lipton Tea contact page is

> http://www.liptont.com/contact_us/contact_us.asp

>

> On Lipton's web site Q & A they give this response

> Q: After I make iced tea, how long can I store it in the

> refrigerator?

>

> A: For best quality, we recommend that you use it within 72

> hours.

>

> Ice tea - if meaning made in the sun tea manner (glass jar,

> water, tea, in the sun) is notoriously more dangerous than

> brewed tea though still safe and popular summer drink. Ice

> tea and Sun tea is supposed to reduce the caffeine effect or

> have an medicinal advantage.

>

> There is also something about the danger of reusing a tea

> bag, and how long may a used t-bag be kept for. Some say not

> to do it at all (Lipton) , some say its OK, some say if

> refrigerated.

>

> These questions have been around for many years and IMO, not

> adequately addressed publicly. Yet IMO, they are a real

> concern to these industry giants wary of possible health

> related lawsuits. My suspicion

is that they are adding

> pesticides and preservatives that would forestall any

> initial pathogens. My own kitchen counter test of a used

> t-bag did not result in any noticeable mold for over one

> week.

>

> Then the question becomes how safe are those teas as food

> for our kombucha's - not considering how safe are they for

> us humans.

> Lipton tea bags have a _shelf life_ of from 12-18 months.

> How they come to that conclusion I have no idea. Herbs that

> are powdered (as tea that is for use in t-bags are)

> generally are given a shelf life of 1-2 years before they

> are considered ineffective. I am not a chemist, but I don't

> think that nitrogen will break down in that time. Nitrogen

> is (according to Guenther ) is what the kombucha is

> after. Pesticides and preservatives, on the other hand do

> break down faster ...

>

> When you add _sugar_ one changes the dynamics considerably.

>

> For us, cooling down the sweeten tea is the most dangerous

> aspect and most likely point of contamination. Not having

> the sweeten tea covered dramatically increases that danger.

> And the lower the temperature the greater the danger. The

> danger is not only from ever present mold spores but from

> wild air born yeasts and bacteria including sub-species of

> acetic bacteria. The air born acetic b. is needed for the

> production of vinegar and certain lactic acid ferments.

> Perhaps that is why Roussin in his research found

> differences even to identical side by side ferments.

>

> Three common methods of preparing the sweeten tea.

>

> 1. fill the sink with cold water and set the sweeten tea pot

> in the cold bath. Allowing the cold water to run will

> shorten the time. Initial while the temperature is over 190F

> the cover may be off but should definitely be on as the

> temperature goes below 190F.

>

> 2. Make a concentrated sweeten tea. Use the full proportion

> but less water. (Say 1/2). Then add the remaining water

> (1/2) back in to cool. One idea is to pre-boil the cooling

> water and then cool that down. Or use room temperature water

> of known quality. This is simply a modified Ice-tea recipe.

>

> 3. Use your coffee maker (Mr. Coffee style) to make a pot of

> tea instead of coffee. Use the same amount, or slightly more

> of tea that you normally use just make only one pot (or

> less) of tea. Use a coffee filter for loose leaf teas or

> just the tea bags without the coffee filter if using t-bags.

> While the water is still hot add the sugar. When the sugar

> is dissolved add the sweeten tea to more room temperature

> water to bring the total volume to your size container.

>

>

> Boiling is considered necessary to remove chlorine but does

> little in the way of " sterilization " unless done so for

> twenty plus minutes and then under pressure. Over boiling

> water may deplete needed oxygen from the water and starve

> the ferment. IMO, water should be hot enough to steep the

> tea and dissolve the sugar, no more. Water should be of

> known quality chlorine-free. Salt usually added to bottled

> water is not harmful to kombucha (as long as it is

> chlorine-free). Some people, especially those it seems with

> bakers experience, actually add a pinch of salt to the

> kombucha ferment. People have reported successfully

> fermenting kombucha in well water and tap water and thus

> kombucha is not a science but remains an art.

>

>

> live free and healthy

>

> Ed Kasper L.Ac., Acupuncturist & Medicinal Herbalist

> http://HappyHerbalist.com eddy@...

>

[Guest guest]

That's what my husband told me.However, I like s way.

EASIER.Carol B

>

> I think, I've read that stiring the water will reoxygenate it?

> Otherwise, for fish tanks you just let the covered jug/tank sit over

> night (24hr).

> -Audrey

>

> <snippet>

>

> Boiling the water

> > actually damages the water (removes oxygen), so it's really really

> best to

> > avoid boiling all the water for KT, if at all possible.>

> > --V

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > I think, I've read that stiring the water will reoxygenate it?

not sure, possibly.

> > Otherwise, for fish tanks you just let the covered jug/tank sit over

> > night (24hr).

This only works for chlorine. Not for chloramine. Both are deadly to fish.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste