Re: Uh-oh...I added RAW vinegar to my last batch!

[Guest guest]

I should also mention it looks like I had healthy SCOBY formation and

good carbonation...I don't know if this helps diagnose or not. I read

in the archives that SCOBY is likely to restore itself if I do not use

raw vinegar again (which I won't!). It was a one time thing. Since the

batch that I used the vinegar in was a success, maybe its ok? Or,

alternatively, does the MOV build up strength over time and therefore

I could potentially be doomed?

I can't sleep I am so worried!

Please please please Kombucha-Gods, have mercy on this poor amateur's

culture!

[Guest guest]

In message <e6tg76+r8bneGroups> you wrote:

> I should also mention it looks like I had healthy SCOBY formation and

> good carbonation...

Hi Terra, 'Luna' speaking (Margret in lunatic mood ;-)

Your description sounds GOOD!

My guess is that all will work out alright. :-)

>.. batch that I used the vinegar in was a success, maybe its ok? Or,

> alternatively, does the MOV build up strength over time and therefore

> I could potentially be doomed?

I believe, doom doesn't come into it.

The worst scenario of ending up with MOV would still be a healthy one,

but Kombucha culture is a very sturdy beast and its bacteria and yeasts

can look after themselves very well.

> I can't sleep I am so worried!

You need to relax, Terra .

Sing to your fermenting Kombucha culture and tell it that you

love it and expect it to do well. It will calm you :-)

> Please please please Kombucha-Gods, have mercy on this poor amateur's

> culture!

I think it would make more sense to ask the Creator God who made Heaven

and Earth and everything in it, whose idea Kombucha was as well ....

His smile is upon your life :-)

with blessings,

Margret:-)

--

+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Minstrel@...

<)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

http://www.lamblion.com/

+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Global peace begins with Jesus the Prince of Peace ruling in my heart.

[Guest guest]

After tasting the refrigerated Kombucha, its still pretty vinegary but

my husband says " so what? This one acidic, next one, not! Its not

something stable--its a living organism "

I think my culture might just have gotten overripe--I used a lot of

starter (~25%) in 1 quart jars due to limited vessel availibilty. It

might have just matured faster than I expected.

I am starting a new batch in the next day or two. Would it be

advisable for me not to use much starter and just add a rinsed SCOBY

and a tsp of distilled vinegar? If I have in fact started a MOV

culture, are my scobies contaminated?

I just want to get this right!

(Thanks for your calming words, Luna!)

[Guest guest]

Go to Walmart. They carry Anchor Hocking cracker jars. 1 gallon size

which come with metal lids (don't use the lids). They cost about $5

and are wonderful for KT. I use 3 qts of filtered water with 1 cup

sugar and 6 tea bags. When I add the brew to the jar I use 1 cup

starter tea with the scoby and use two unbleached coffee filters held

on by a rubber band. I place them on top of my small freezer in my

kitchen. 7-10 days and it's perfect. Carol B (longer in winter)

>

> After tasting the refrigerated Kombucha, its still pretty vinegary but

> my husband says " so what? This one acidic, next one, not! Its not

> something stable--its a living organism "

>

> I think my culture might just have gotten overripe--I used a lot of

> starter (~25%) in 1 quart jars due to limited vessel availibilty. It

> might have just matured faster than I expected.

>

> I am starting a new batch in the next day or two. Would it be

> advisable for me not to use much starter and just add a rinsed SCOBY

> and a tsp of distilled vinegar? If I have in fact started a MOV

> culture, are my scobies contaminated?

>

> I just want to get this right!

>

> (Thanks for your calming words, Luna!)

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Carol. I have since gotten 2 4qt bowls which I am currently

using. I do appreciate the advice!

I'm still wondering if I should add the starter tea I have to my next

batch or rinse my scoby and start again. Anyone have any advice to

offer?

> >

> > After tasting the refrigerated Kombucha, its still pretty vinegary but

> > my husband says " so what? This one acidic, next one, not! Its not

> > something stable--its a living organism "

> >

> > I think my culture might just have gotten overripe--I used a lot of

> > starter (~25%) in 1 quart jars due to limited vessel availibilty. It

> > might have just matured faster than I expected.

> >

> > I am starting a new batch in the next day or two. Would it be

> > advisable for me not to use much starter and just add a rinsed SCOBY

> > and a tsp of distilled vinegar? If I have in fact started a MOV

> > culture, are my scobies contaminated?

> >

> > I just want to get this right!

> >

> > (Thanks for your calming words, Luna!)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In message <e6ucgl+fibueGroups> you wrote:

> After tasting the refrigerated Kombucha, its still pretty vinegary but

> my husband says " so what? This one acidic, next one, not! Its not

> something stable--its a living organism "

That is very well perceived!

> I think my culture might just have gotten overripe--I used a lot of

> starter (~25%)

Yes, that is rather much. !0 per cent is the recommended amount.

With the warmer weather, too, it would be advisable to try your brew around

day 5. If still too sweet, let it go a day or two longer until a palatable

acidity is reached.

> I am starting a new batch in the next day or two. Would it be

> advisable for me not to use much starter and just add a rinsed SCOBY

> and a tsp of distilled vinegar?

I hope you never runse your scoby in water, but only in its own KT!

As I said above, use the scoby and put about 10 per cent of liquid KT

over the top of it.

> If I have in fact started a MOV

> culture, are my scobies contaminated?

I doubt it, but only time will tell.

contaminated is really not the right word to use,

as there is simply a mingling of MOV yeasts with Kombucha yeasts and

bacteria. The stronger culture will prevail. I predict, it will be the

Kombucha culture.

If you cannot rest there, the only way out of the painful uncertainty is

to start off with a new culture. There are many people on

this list who would be happy to share a culture with you.

State where you are and see what happens.

All the best, and may everything work out well for you :-)

Margret

P.S. The 'luna' things was a joke: As 'terra' means 'earth' in the

Latin, 'Luna' means 'moon' .... just a play on cosmic bodies :-)

--

+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Minstrel@...

<)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

http://www.lamblion.com/

+---------------------------------------------------------------+

God keeps His eye upon you as you come and go, and always guards you.

[Guest guest]

I really DO need to relax here. The only thing I can do is wait! I

will know in a week if I am in trouble or not. If at that time my next

batch is also really vinegary, I'll start again. I live in Edmonton,

AB, Canada and I got my original culture from someone in another city

and I don't know how easy it would be to get another culture from my

original source. But if there are any Canadians on the list, I would

be very grateful to get a new culture. Please email me off-list for my

address if you can help me out...

Thanks again for your support, Margret!

Warmly,

Terra

>

> > After tasting the refrigerated Kombucha, its still pretty vinegary but

> > my husband says " so what? This one acidic, next one, not! Its not

> > something stable--its a living organism "

> That is very well perceived!

>

> > I think my culture might just have gotten overripe--I used a lot of

> > starter (~25%)

> Yes, that is rather much. !0 per cent is the recommended amount.

>

> With the warmer weather, too, it would be advisable to try your brew

around

> day 5. If still too sweet, let it go a day or two longer until a

palatable

> acidity is reached.

>

> > I am starting a new batch in the next day or two. Would it be

> > advisable for me not to use much starter and just add a rinsed SCOBY

> > and a tsp of distilled vinegar?

> I hope you never runse your scoby in water, but only in its own KT!

> As I said above, use the scoby and put about 10 per cent of liquid KT

> over the top of it.

>

> > If I have in fact started a MOV

> > culture, are my scobies contaminated?

>

> I doubt it, but only time will tell.

> contaminated is really not the right word to use,

> as there is simply a mingling of MOV yeasts with Kombucha yeasts and

> bacteria. The stronger culture will prevail. I predict, it will be the

> Kombucha culture.

>

> If you cannot rest there, the only way out of the painful

uncertainty is

> to start off with a new culture. There are many people on

> this list who would be happy to share a culture with you.

>

> State where you are and see what happens.

>

> All the best, and may everything work out well for you :-)

>

> Margret

>

> P.S. The 'luna' things was a joke: As 'terra' means 'earth' in the

> Latin, 'Luna' means 'moon' .... just a play on cosmic bodies :-)

> --

> +---------------------------------------------------------------+

> Minstrel@...

> <)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

> http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

> http://www.lamblion.com/

> +---------------------------------------------------------------+

> God keeps His eye upon you as you come and go, and always guards you.

>

[Guest guest]

I like the anchor hocking jars because there's less chance of spilling

the brew when moving the jar. If your KT is to acid, just dilute it

with juice or something. Next batch I would definately add 1 cup

starter tea per gallon. bw, Carol B

> > >

> > > After tasting the refrigerated Kombucha, its still pretty

vinegary but

> > > my husband says " so what? This one acidic, next one, not! Its not

> > > something stable--its a living organism "

> > >

> > > I think my culture might just have gotten overripe--I used a lot of

> > > starter (~25%) in 1 quart jars due to limited vessel availibilty. It

> > > might have just matured faster than I expected.

> > >

> > > I am starting a new batch in the next day or two. Would it be

> > > advisable for me not to use much starter and just add a rinsed SCOBY

> > > and a tsp of distilled vinegar? If I have in fact started a MOV

> > > culture, are my scobies contaminated?

> > >

> > > I just want to get this right!

> > >

> > > (Thanks for your calming words, Luna!)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>I'm still wondering if I should add the starter tea I have to my next

>batch or rinse my scoby and start again. Anyone have any advice to

>offer?

I don't think you need to rinse your SCOBY-- certainly not with water

(didn't see what was recommended). I would use your starter tea. Most

people do not have a problem with their KT if they use raw vinegar one

time. I use 2 cups of starter tea per gallon batch (which is about 3

quarts). Some people use 1 cup. But using more starter is just more of a

guarantee it will ferment without problems because you start out with a

more acidic mix, and that's not a bad thing, although it can shorten

fermentation time. In any case, smaller 1-quart size batches definitely

brew much faster than larger ones, I've found. Probably all that happened

originally was it brewed longer than you'd prefer, so be sure to check

earlier in future so that you catch it at the right point for you.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>Thanks, Carol. I have since gotten 2 4qt bowls which I am currently

>using. I do appreciate the advice!

One more thing-- the wider the mouth of the vessel, and the wider the

opening is compared with the depth of the brew, the shorter the

fermentation time. So in using these bowls, that will also speed your

fermentation as compared with using a gal jar.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Ok, I am much more relaxed now. I think you are right. The original

batch that I added the vinegar to was IDEAL so I don't think the

vinegar took too strong of a hold. Once I quiet my mind, intuitively I

think I used too much starter, too small jars and underestimated

fermentation time. Thank you for quieting my mind. I am probably just

tasting STRONG KT, and not vinegar. I'll post in a week to let you

know how it turns out!

Terra

>

>

> >I'm still wondering if I should add the starter tea I have to my next

> >batch or rinse my scoby and start again. Anyone have any advice to

> >offer?

>

> I don't think you need to rinse your SCOBY-- certainly not with water

> (didn't see what was recommended). I would use your starter tea. Most

> people do not have a problem with their KT if they use raw vinegar one

> time. I use 2 cups of starter tea per gallon batch (which is about 3

> quarts). Some people use 1 cup. But using more starter is just

more of a

> guarantee it will ferment without problems because you start out with a

> more acidic mix, and that's not a bad thing, although it can shorten

> fermentation time. In any case, smaller 1-quart size batches

definitely

> brew much faster than larger ones, I've found. Probably all that

happened

> originally was it brewed longer than you'd prefer, so be sure to check

> earlier in future so that you catch it at the right point for you.

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

KT itself becomes a type of vinegar, so yes, when it gets into the very

acidic states, it's quite intense. But yes, I think it's fine, and look

forward to your next report. Test at 4-5 days so you know where you

stand. --V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

MOV (mother of vinegar) and kombucha are different.

The purpose of adding vinegar to a kombucha start is only to lower

the pH in an attempt to ward of mold from attacking the new KT.

The species of yeasts for kombucha is the sporeless yeast.

Schizosaccharomyces pombe. The mushroom that forms from MOV (apple-

cider) is usually found floating mid center and is not as firm (falls

apart easily) as the kombucha SCOBY and is a different yeasts. The

most notable ACV is Bragg's. Their ACV is over 5% acetic acid while

3.0 pH. Typical KT is 1% acetic acid and 3.0 pH.

When one ferments kombucha (as in any ferment activity) one is

promoting a specific yeast (s). The predominance of that particular

strain will determine the brew. At all times there are numerous wild

yeasts that may cause havoc with _any_ ferment. The principle

concern is that the correct yeasts dominate. An example may be the

famous San Francisco Sour Dough Bread. There were under pressure from

the FDA to disclose the identity of their yeasts/starter which they

refused as their entire business identity is based upon that strain.

One could simply take some bread and reconstitute the same yeast

starter from the bread. Add their bread, water, pinch of salt and

flour and can produce a nice loaf of bread. Yet in practice it is

impossible to reproduce the quality or taste of what is uniquely San

Francisco Sour Dough Bread. This is true for all ferments - beer,

wine, breads, and kombucha. Leave a bottle of wine open on the

counter and after awhile becomes vinegar. MARge recently tried this

with Dr Sklenar brand of kombucha tea. One can produce something from

any live ferment (such as GT's, kombucha2000, Pronatura, etc) however

most of these commercial products have a limited amount of biological

active components and the risk of air-born and wild yeasts becoming

part of the ferment are high.

Many folks simply take a bottle of GT (whatever) and start another

fermenting. What is produced looks like and taste like KT. Yet Dave

(GT) claims his is a 30 day ferment, low sugar low caffeine, and one

can not ferment their home-grown GT for 30 days and get a drinkable

KT (IMO). If one brews at low temperatures less than 60F than they

foster the domination of different (not Schizosaccharomyces) yeasts,

and IMO produce a possibly healthy and tasty drink but not KT.

Another source of change would be to ferment with fresh fruits (like

apples). Many people would like to substitute the sugar from the

fresh fruit (instead of white sugar) as well as the taste sensation.

These produce what many people are calling " kombucha " . Again the

danger here is from the inclusion of other biologically active

ingredients that are in the fresh fruits and are not specific to the

typical kombucha tea.

live free and healthy

Ed Kasper L.Ac., Acupuncturist & Medicinal Herbalist

http://HappyHerbalist.com eddy@...

>

>

> KT itself becomes a type of vinegar, so yes, when it gets into the

very acidic states, it's quite intense. But yes, I think it's fine,

and look forward to your next report. Test at 4-5 days so you know

where you

> stand. --V

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

Ed,

Explain more, please. I let a bottle of plain GT KT sit out with a

paper towel lid for a month and it made a scoby, which I used in my

kt brew, along with the very acid kt as starter. Are you saying that

what I have is not kt after all? This is all fascinating info and

yet I don't have the time to thoroughly investigate it all right

now. Any ideas or suggestions are welcomed.

a

>

> Many folks simply take a bottle of GT (whatever) and start another

> fermenting. What is produced looks like and taste like KT. Yet

Dave

> (GT) claims his is a 30 day ferment, low sugar low caffeine, and

one

> can not ferment their home-grown GT for 30 days and get a

drinkable

> KT (IMO). If one brews at low temperatures less than 60F than they

> foster the domination of different (not Schizosaccharomyces)

yeasts,

> and IMO produce a possibly healthy and tasty drink but not KT.

>

> live free and healthy

>

> Ed Kasper L.Ac., Acupuncturist & Medicinal Herbalist

> http://HappyHerbalist.com eddy@...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Luna, I went to the Walmart web site and could not find it.

-Audrey-

<Snippet>

> Go to Walmart. They carry Anchor Hocking cracker jars. 1 gallon size

> which come with metal lids

>Luna!

[Guest guest]

Oh, Okay thanks V, for answering one of my questions.

-Audrey

<snippet>

> >Thanks, Carol. I have since gotten 2 4qt bowls which I am currently

> >using. I do appreciate the advice!

>

> One more thing-- the wider the mouth of the vessel, and the wider

the

> opening is compared with the depth of the brew, the shorter the

> fermentation time. So in using these bowls, that will also speed

your

> fermentation as compared with using a gal jar.

>

> --V

>