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Thanks! The only thing is, since was 3, he can get all kinds of locks open. Everything also that is childproof has never been for him. We have keys for all rooms of our house that we hve to use because everything is locked. Thanks for responding.

Stacie

If you have the kind of locks on your windows that have a latch, you can screw up the screw so that the window, once latched, can't be unlocked.

Elaine

oh no

Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about .

Stacie B

Aurora IL

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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If you have the kind of locks on your windows that have a latch, you can screw up the screw so that the window, once latched, can't be unlocked.

Elaine

oh no

Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about .

Stacie B

Aurora IL

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Hi Stacie,after going through the standard childproofs that never

worked I put rabbit wire. I barely got hold of my of kid once as they

were falling out the window. That did it for me. Before that time my

son made it out to the road and a stranger was going door to door

with my child until I answered. The nice thing about rabbit wire was

my windows could still be open on nice days. You can buy it at garden

centers or feed stores by the roll cheap,rust proof. I used a heavy

duty staple gun and carpenter staples,tin snips. Make your cut outs a

little larger then your window frame and staple on.

What a day for you and your family!

Tishanne

-- In AutismBehaviorProblems , hawkie6@... wrote:

>

> Thanks! The only thing is, since was 3, he can get all kinds

of locks

> open. Everything also that is childproof has never been for him.

We have

> keys for all rooms of our house that we hve to use because

everything is

> locked. Thanks for responding.

> Stacie

>

>

> In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:52:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> forresters2@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> If you have the kind of locks on your windows that have a latch,

you can

> screw up the screw so that the window, once latched, can't be

unlocked.

> Elaine

>

> oh no

>

>

>

> Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child

to the

> eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well,

she

> called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his

window and the lady

> across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We

have those

> window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like

everthuing

> else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I

should say, and I

> caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he

steps on

> his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room

and got

> almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few

things. He

> does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed

was pushed up to

> the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the

driveway

> all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it

is hard to

> get anything out of . He does not understand cause and

affect. I called

> his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his

wondows which

> I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he

answered

> me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door.

Well,

> actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a

chance. That

> someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me

from home but she

> did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look

for

> things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I

am at my whits

> end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he

outsmarts us once

> again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him

going to the

> front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in

the

> neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up

at his windown and

> trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know

you cant do

> to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor.

Well, we

> would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I

am so

> scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone

who does work for

> us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know.

I am so

> scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but

you know, it is

> scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to

get a sign

> in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood

caution, and

> also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the

neighbors that dont

> know, know about .

>

> Stacie B

> Aurora IL

>

>

>

>

> ____________________________________

> Psssst...Have you heard the news? _There's a new fashion blog,

plus the

> latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com_

> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) .

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new

fashion blog,

> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

>

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Share on other sites

One thing I would suggest is to inform

your local police department of your son and his diagnosis and his compulsion

to get out of the house, unawareness of danger, etc. I have a little form

here somewhere that you can fill out and actually give to the police so that

they can put in the computer things like how verbal your son is, whether he

will run when called/pursued by a stranger, if he gets violent when scared or

confused, and some of his favorite places to wander. This way you are

being proactive in a couple of ways – if they ever find (Definitely

get him ID of some kind!) they have info on how to best manage the situation

and hopefully they won’t traumatize him trying to catch him. Also,

If someone else calls the police about your son being out of the house unsupervised

(i.e. they are reporting you for being such a negligent parent, LOL), the

police will have already heard this from you and you don’t look like a ‘bad

guy’ they need to keep an eye out for, you know? And third, If he

gets out loose when you are home somehow and you can’t find him, you have

already provided them with much needed information that they will need to help

you search when you call 911. If you are the one to approach the police

about your son’s condition and are the responsible parent requesting

their help in keeping him safe, then you can call 911 without worry when you

need to. And you should not hesitate to do so. We have had to have

police help search for three times – once at the mall, once at the

pumpkin patch, and once here in our town when he walked away from the park we

were playing at. On all three occasions they have emphasized over and

over that they would rather parents not wait to call them – many parents

wait a while, trying to search on their own or with family for 30 minutes

before ‘bothering’ the police. But they would rather come

after 5 minutes and have the child safe and quickly found than have the family

search for an hour before calling them and have the child be 2 miles away, in

danger, or worse.

I have some good links on child ID and

safety products – I’ll look them up and forward them to the group.

Huge hugs for you – have a good cry

and know that tomorrow is a new day.

Dora in WA

From: AutismBehaviorProblems

[mailto:AutismBehaviorProblems ] On Behalf Of hawkie6@...

Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008

7:34 PM

To:

AutismBehaviorProblems

Subject: oh no

Well, today was not a good day. I

had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while

was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem

mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought

him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on

them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has

climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him

halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys

instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it

cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play

with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the

window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all

bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to

get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect.

I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows

which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he

answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the

door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had

a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she

would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him

tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any

suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is

ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard.

The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and

then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic.

Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the

shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up

there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never

have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I

called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us

to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am

so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you

know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying

to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood

caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the

neighbors that dont know, know about .

Stacie B

Aurora IL

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new

fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stacie, I will call you tommorrow. You need alarms on your doors and

windows. I can help you. You can alarm the screens to alert you

when he is doing this. Luckly Lester has not gotten out the window

but sat there watching how things fall out the window as I was in my

family rrom seeig things fall down from the second floor. I think he

wanted to see what would happen to him? ! our kids are like all

others curiousity gets them. I have stickers to put on your house

and car to alert others. There are alrams to put on him to alert you

he is going out any area . I will call you on tuesday. Been there,

done that! It doesnt change the anxiety you feel. I know first hand

and still feel it everytime I leave or can not see Lester. Kathy

from Orland Park.

-- In AutismBehaviorProblems , hawkie6@... wrote:

>

> Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child

to the

> eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well,

she

> called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his

window and the lady

> across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We

have those

> window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like

everthuing

> else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I

should say, and I

> caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he

steps on

> his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room

and got

> almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few

things. He does

> not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was

pushed up to

> the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the

driveway

> all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it

is hard to

> get anything out of . He does not understand cause and

affect. I called

> his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his

wondows which

> I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he

answered

> me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door.

Well,

> actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a

chance. That

> someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me

from home but she

> did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look

for things

> we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at

my whits

> end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he

outsmarts us once

> again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him

going to the

> front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in

the neighbors

> yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his

windown and

> trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know

you cant do

> to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor.

Well, we

> would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I

am so scared.

> I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does

work for us

> to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I

am so scared

> he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you

know, it is

> scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to

get a sign in

> front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood

caution, and

> also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the

neighbors that dont

> know, know about .

>

> Stacie B

> Aurora IL

>

>

>

> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new

fashion blog,

> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My son wandered away once in the blink of an eye. We live near the

beach and the police brought in search hounds and search team. They

lost his scent on the beach. A man driving on the beach picked him up

then made another stop then gave him a ride that ended up at a gas

station. Before any help call was made from the gas station my son

left the gas station and was found at a 4 way stop,it was just at

dark. It was the scarriest time. There is a device made for

alzhiemers persons for tracking. I cant remember what its called.

Tishanne

- In AutismBehaviorProblems , " Dora

Lattish " wrote:

>

> One thing I would suggest is to inform your local police department

of your

> son and his diagnosis and his compulsion to get out of the house,

> unawareness of danger, etc. I have a little form here somewhere

that you

> can fill out and actually give to the police so that they can put

in the

> computer things like how verbal your son is, whether he will run

when

> called/pursued by a stranger, if he gets violent when scared or

confused,

> and some of his favorite places to wander. This way you are being

proactive

> in a couple of ways - if they ever find (Definitely get him ID

of some

> kind!) they have info on how to best manage the situation and

hopefully they

> won't traumatize him trying to catch him. Also, If someone else

calls the

> police about your son being out of the house unsupervised (i.e.

they are

> reporting you for being such a negligent parent, LOL), the police

will have

> already heard this from you and you don't look like a 'bad guy'

they need to

> keep an eye out for, you know? And third, If he gets out loose

when you are

> home somehow and you can't find him, you have already provided them

with

> much needed information that they will need to help you search when

you call

> 911. If you are the one to approach the police about your son's

condition

> and are the responsible parent requesting their help in keeping him

safe,

> then you can call 911 without worry when you need to. And you

should not

> hesitate to do so. We have had to have police help search for

three

> times - once at the mall, once at the pumpkin patch, and once here

in our

> town when he walked away from the park we were playing at. On all

three

> occasions they have emphasized over and over that they would rather

parents

> not wait to call them - many parents wait a while, trying to search

on their

> own or with family for 30 minutes before 'bothering' the police.

But they

> would rather come after 5 minutes and have the child safe and

quickly found

> than have the family search for an hour before calling them and

have the

> child be 2 miles away, in danger, or worse.

>

>

>

> I have some good links on child ID and safety products - I'll look

them up

> and forward them to the group.

>

>

>

> Huge hugs for you - have a good cry and know that tomorrow is a new

day.

>

>

>

> Dora in WA

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: AutismBehaviorProblems

> [mailto:AutismBehaviorProblems ] On Behalf Of

hawkie6@...

> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 7:34 PM

> To: AutismBehaviorProblems

> Subject: oh no

>

>

>

> Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child

to the

> eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well,

she

> called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his

window and

> the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was

horrified. We

> have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just

like

> everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or

tried I

> should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about

his room

> because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went

through

> his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago

except for

> a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got

home,

> his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him.

And the

> screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to

see what

> she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does

not

> understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she

says to

> put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what

does this

> say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does

pretty good

> with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and

asked her

> to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had

happened. I did

> not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she

will also

> talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So,

does

> anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when

I think

> everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is

so very

> hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door,

looking

> at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard,

looking

> frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying

to get a

> grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try

to get

> back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would

never

> have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared.

I called

> JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us

to see

> about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so

scared he

> will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it

is

> scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to

get a sign

> in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood

caution, and

> also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors

that

> dont know, know about .

>

>

>

> Stacie B

>

> Aurora IL

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new

> <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014>

fashion blog,

> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh how scary! I would love to know what that device is called!StacieSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:12:14 -0000To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: Re: oh no My son wandered away once in the blink of an eye. We live near the beach and the police brought in search hounds and search team. They lost his scent on the beach. A man driving on the beach picked him up then made another stop then gave him a ride that ended up at a gas station. Before any help call was made from the gas station my son left the gas station and was found at a 4 way stop,it was just at dark. It was the scarriest time. There is a device made for alzhiemers persons for tracking. I cant remember what its called. Tishanne - In AutismBehaviorProblems , " Dora Lattish " wrote: > > One thing I would suggest is to inform your local police department of your > son and his diagnosis and his compulsion to get out of the house, > unawareness of danger, etc. I have a little form here somewhere that you > can fill out and actually give to the police so that they can put in the > computer things like how verbal your son is, whether he will run when > called/pursued by a stranger, if he gets violent when scared or confused, > and some of his favorite places to wander. This way you are being proactive > in a couple of ways - if they ever find (Definitely get him ID of some > kind!) they have info on how to best manage the situation and hopefully they > won't traumatize him trying to catch him. Also, If someone else calls the > police about your son being out of the house unsupervised (i.e. they are > reporting you for being such a negligent parent, LOL), the police will have > already heard this from you and you don't look like a 'bad guy' they need to > keep an eye out for, you know? And third, If he gets out loose when you are > home somehow and you can't find him, you have already provided them with > much needed information that they will need to help you search when you call > 911. If you are the one to approach the police about your son's condition > and are the responsible parent requesting their help in keeping him safe, > then you can call 911 without worry when you need to. And you should not > hesitate to do so. We have had to have police help search for three > times - once at the mall, once at the pumpkin patch, and once here in our > town when he walked away from the park we were playing at. On all three > occasions they have emphasized over and over that they would rather parents > not wait to call them - many parents wait a while, trying to search on their > own or with family for 30 minutes before 'bothering' the police. But they > would rather come after 5 minutes and have the child safe and quickly found > than have the family search for an hour before calling them and have the > child be 2 miles away, in danger, or worse. > > > > I have some good links on child ID and safety products - I'll look them up > and forward them to the group. > > > > Huge hugs for you - have a good cry and know that tomorrow is a new day. > > > > Dora in WA > > > > _____ > > From: AutismBehaviorProblems > [mailto:AutismBehaviorProblems ] On Behalf Of hawkie6@... > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 7:34 PM > To: AutismBehaviorProblems > Subject: oh no > > > > Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the > eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she > called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and > the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We > have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like > everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I > should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room > because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through > his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for > a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, > his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the > screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what > she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not > understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to > put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this > say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good > with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her > to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did > not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also > talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does > anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think > everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very > hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking > at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking > frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a > grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get > back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never > have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called > JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see > about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he > will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is > scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign > in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and > also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that > dont know, know about . > > > > Stacie B > > Aurora IL > > > > > > _____ > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new > <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> fashion blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. >

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Kathy, your post made me cry because you are so sweet and caring! Thanks so much! I am so scared and just don't know what to do! Every time we think everything it all locked and safe he outsmarts us once again! I want to get a sign in our neighborhood, one for his window and for the car and also an I'd bracelet! I am also thinking I should call the police station and have my house flagged or whatever it is called with child with Autism!StacieSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:53:08 -0000To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: Re: oh no Stacie, I will call you tommorrow. You need alarms on your doors and windows. I can help you. You can alarm the screens to alert you when he is doing this. Luckly Lester has not gotten out the window but sat there watching how things fall out the window as I was in my family rrom seeig things fall down from the second floor. I think he wanted to see what would happen to him? ! our kids are like all others curiousity gets them. I have stickers to put on your house and car to alert others. There are alrams to put on him to alert you he is going out any area . I will call you on tuesday. Been there, done that! It doesnt change the anxiety you feel. I know first hand and still feel it everytime I leave or can not see Lester. Kathy from Orland Park. -- In AutismBehaviorProblems , hawkie6@... wrote: > > Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the > eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she > called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady > across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those > window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing > else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I > caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on > his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got > almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does > not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to > the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway > all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to > get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called > his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which > I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered > me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, > actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That > someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she > did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things > we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits > end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once > again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the > front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors > yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and > trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do > to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we > would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. > I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us > to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared > he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is > scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in > front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and > also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont > know, know about . > > Stacie B > Aurora IL > > > > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) >

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Do you have charities where you live that you could approach and ask for security measures to be put in place in your home. I know it is against fire regs but I would do anything I could to make that window secure - including nailing gluing shut. Also I would have locks on outside of his room so at night he could be locked in and have a cut out peice in the door you can open to see him. Also on all ways out of the house I would have audible alarms. Also let the local police know about your son

I know some of these measures are controversial, some people would not take such severe measures and some people would not approach charity but adaptions are expensive and in my experience (I am in the UK though) charities are quite giving to causes like this.

oh no

Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about .

Stacie B

Aurora IL

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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,

My 6 yrs old has never tried to climb out a window or get out of our house yet. however the case manager that I work with has suggested to us that we start proofing our house for her safety. She suggested to us to get all alarms on doors, windows, and bed, These are usually ear piercing is what I am told and will stop the child instantly because it scares them. I really don't have the experiance yet with them. They are trying to get them through some kind of waiver that she qualified for. The interesting thing I mentioned to the case worker is it didn't matter how loud the sound was for my 6 yr old child because she is totally deaf. :) So I thought it would be better for my family not to get the ear piercing sound ones. She laughed and said she had never thought of that. After 6 years of working with her I found this to be funny myself. Hope this and other responses will help you. I

am so glad that your neighbor knew about it. My neighbors probably would of done nothing.

Even though some know of her disabilites. I had a sign put up for deaf child area. We live in a subdivision and there were no signs up other then speed sign. No child at play or anything.

Twilla

Subject: oh noTo: AutismBehaviorProblems Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 10:34 PM

Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because

it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was

looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about .

Stacie B

Aurora IL

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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I am not an expert on this, but I do have a few suggestions if you don't mind.

up high on our basemnt door we have an eye n hook latch, this way adults can acess but i didn't have to worry about ym kids accidentially opeing the wrong door in the middle of the night. on windows i guess it would depened on thier construction. butIf autistic children are for the most part the same fine mortor skills are not up to speed? if so your hubby can drill small holes. one on each side and you can hammer in metal rods or wooden doels. ya know like you get on those cheap shevling units, you cannot get themn out with fingers you need a plier. to get out.. you could put it in at a hight that allows air to get in and not escape. you can also use larger ones if you feel the need to make it permanent.

also in referance to stop signs, acrylic paint peels off windows in case he has a pension for ripping things down he doesn't want to see. and you can remove with a razor when your done.

hopw this is atleast a help.

debra byrne

oh no

Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about .

Stacie B

Aurora IL

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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http://www..thechildrenshospital.org/wellness/safety/safekids/windowsafety.aspx

Window Guards

Window guards have been shown to reduce fatal falls by up to 35 percent asseen in a pilot study in New York City and the nonprofit product testing organization, ASTM International, has established voluntary standards to ensure window guards don’t interfere with emergency escape in a fire. In an apartment in a high-rise building, these devices should be considered essential safety equipment.

The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) suggests contacting the following companies for more information about purchasing window guards. They are typically not available through local retailers but can be purchased online.

Automatic Specialties, manufacturer of Guardian Angel Window Guards - 1- LL Building Products- 1- Sterling Corporation- 1-

Window guards screw into the side of a window frame and have bars no more than 4 inches apart. They are sold in different sizes for various size windows and adjust for width. Guards must meet requirements for spacing and strength. In a home with young children it is critical that window guards that are installed have a release mechanism so that they can be opened for escape in a fire emergency. Guards that allow for escape in case of emergencies must be difficult for very young children to open.

Other Safety Devices

“Parents may also consider using other window safety devices such as window wedges or braces or removing the hand cranks on casement windows. The bottom line is to ensure that windows do not open more than 4 inches. Toddlers have been known to fall out of windows or get trapped in window openings in as little as 5 inches. Parents should be aware that windows provide a means of escape from a burning home, so whatever protection means are used they need to able be easily opened or removed in a fire emergency”, says Feuerborn.

Still, no safety device can take the place of active adult supervision.. Always keep an eye on kids around open windows. Making your home child-safe is not a one-time project – It’s an ongoing activity.

Window Safety Reminders

Safe Kids Denver Metro also reminds parents and caregivers:

Keep windows closed and locked when children are around, and keep furniture and anything that a child can climb away from windows to reduce the chances of a child falling through a window. When opening a window for ventilation chose one that a child cannot reach. If you have double-hung windows — the kind that can open down from the top as well as up from the bottom — it is generally safer to open the top pane, but growing kids may have enough strength, dexterity and curiosity to open the bottom pane. Don’t assume an unlocked window is childproof. Set and enforce rules that your child cannot play near windows especially the activity many kids love – jumping on the bed. Strategic landscaping may lessen the extent of injury sustained in the event of a fall. Shrubs and soft edging such as wood chips or grass under a window can cushion potential falls.

Never try to move a child who appears to be seriously injured after a fall — call 911 and let trained medical personnel move the child with proper precautions. (Of course, if a child is not breathing and you are trained in CPR, as all parents should be, follow your CPR protocols.)

Finally, while you’re childproofing your windows, take a moment to secure the curtain pulls or blind cords out of reach — kids have been strangled while playing with dangling cords. Install safety tassels on the ends of the curtain pulls or cut the loops so a child is less likely to get trapped.

For more information about window safety, falls and childproofing, call Safe Kids Denver Metro at , whose members include childproofing professionals or visit www.usa.safekids.org. Another window safety resource is the National Safety Council .

Safe Kids Denver Metro works to prevent accidental childhood injury, the leading killer of children 14 years and under. Its members include individuals from over 50 health and safety agencies and organizations throughout the Denver metropolitan area including childproofing professionals. Safe Kids Denver Metro is a member of Safe Kids Worldwide, a global network of organizations dedicated to preventing accidental injury. Safe Kids Denver Metro was founded in 1998 and is led by The Children's Hospital.SincerelyRuePenn

Subject: Re: oh noTo: AutismBehaviorProblems@...Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:55 PM

I am not an expert on this, but I do have a few suggestions if you don't mind.

up high on our basemnt door we have an eye n hook latch, this way adults can acess but i didn't have to worry about ym kids accidentially opeing the wrong door in the middle of the night. on windows i guess it would depened on thier construction. butIf autistic children are for the most part the same fine mortor skills are not up to speed? if so your hubby can drill small holes. one on each side and you can hammer in metal rods or wooden doels. ya know like you get on those cheap shevling units, you cannot get themn out with fingers you need a plier. to get out... you could put it in at a hight that allows air to get in and not escape. you can also use larger ones if you feel the need to make it permanent.

also in referance to stop signs, acrylic paint peels off windows in case he has a pension for ripping things down he doesn't want to see. and you can remove with a razor when your done.

hopw this is atleast a help.

debra byrne

oh no

Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because

it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was

looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about .

Stacie B

Aurora IL

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Even though your child is completely deaf you can hear the alarm yourself. Therefore, the alarm would work to notify you that your child is climbing out of bed, opening the window or door. Something to think about.SincerelyRuePenn

From: hawkie6aol (DOT) com <hawkie6aol (DOT) com>Subject: oh noTo: AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) comDate: Monday, September 15, 2008, 10:34 PM

Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because

it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was

looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about .

Stacie B

Aurora IL

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Hi, sweet Stacie... ((((((HUGS))))))))) --- Hey can you purchase a window alarm? I know they sell them...also you might want to have your husband put a removable screw in his window...main thing is that you know when something opens...so look into getting a front/back door alarm, and also one for his window...I will find a link for one today, and send it to you privately.

God love you Stacie. You are such a terrific mom------I remember we all had this conversation a while back...They'll have more suggestions then I.

e

oh no

..

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My heart really goes out to all you parents whose children are runners, wonders, or escape. Let me tell you a short story that I will never forget. My sister and I planned a trip for a week to the Wildwood, NJ Ocean. Most of our days were spent sunbathing, playing in the sand with my kids or just sight seeing. One of our planned days we went to the Raging Waters water park. As you know kid galore. My kids at the time were probably 6 & 8 years old. Easy to make friends with as my kids were very welcoming to other kids regardless of appearance or disability they made friends easily this day. One little girl (probably around 6 or 7 herself) stuck out, not because of how she looked or that she had a disability because you couldn't tell by looking. She was non-verbal, and she was always at our sitting

area joining my kids on their towels to have a snack or drink. She would just point to the pretzels or juice box, and we would allow because we always taught my kids to share. Well, this little girl hung around all day...she would come & go throughout the day always returning when we sat down to eat or rest. My kids would play with her in the nearby pirates theme part of the water park. Hours went by before we noticed this little girl didn't have a park entrance band on her wrist. We brushed is off that she lost it in the water somewhere, but then it dawned on us that not all day have we actually seen this girl with a parent. Now I am saying hours like we got there at 10:00AM and now it's 4:00PM when we went to the entrance office and informed them that this little girl has been in the park all day without an entrance band, and that we have not seen her with any grown-up. It was then that they told us - The

whole township has been looking for this girl since 9:00 when she got away from her family while they were unpacking the car to spend the day on the beach. I want to cry as I am writing this for the fear her family must have gone through for those 7 hours. It's a good thing this little girl didn't fall into harms way, and that she enjoyed the day at the waterpark but I can't get her parents out of my mind and what they went through that day. That's a day I will never forget and I can say for sure neither will her family.SincerelyRuePenn>> One thing I would suggest is to inform your local police department of your> son and his diagnosis and his compulsion to get out of the house,> unawareness of danger, etc. I

have a little form here somewhere that you> can fill out and actually give to the police so that they can put in the> computer things like how verbal your son is, whether he will run when> called/pursued by a stranger, if he gets violent when scared or confused,> and some of his favorite places to wander. This way you are being proactive> in a couple of ways - if they ever find (Definitely get him ID of some> kind!) they have info on how to best manage the situation and hopefully they> won't traumatize him trying to catch him. Also, If someone else calls the> police about your son being out of the house unsupervised (i.e. they are> reporting you for being such a negligent parent, LOL), the police will have> already heard this from you and you don't look like a 'bad guy' they need to> keep an eye out for, you know? And third, If

he gets out loose when you are> home somehow and you can't find him, you have already provided them with> much needed information that they will need to help you search when you call> 911. If you are the one to approach the police about your son's condition> and are the responsible parent requesting their help in keeping him safe,> then you can call 911 without worry when you need to. And you should not> hesitate to do so. We have had to have police help search for three> times - once at the mall, once at the pumpkin patch, and once here in our> town when he walked away from the park we were playing at. On all three> occasions they have emphasized over and over that they would rather parents> not wait to call them - many parents wait a while, trying to search on their> own or with family for 30 minutes before 'bothering' the

police. But they> would rather come after 5 minutes and have the child safe and quickly found> than have the family search for an hour before calling them and have the> child be 2 miles away, in danger, or worse. > > > > I have some good links on child ID and safety products - I'll look them up> and forward them to the group.> > > > Huge hugs for you - have a good cry and know that tomorrow is a new day.> > > > Dora in WA> > > > _____ > > From: AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) com> [mailto:AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of hawkie6@...> Sent: Monday, September 15,

2008 7:34 PM> To: AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) com> Subject: oh no> > > > Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the> eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she> called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and> the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We> have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like> everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I> should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room> because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through> his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple

months ago except for> a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home,> his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the> screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what> she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not> understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to> put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this> say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good> with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her> to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did> not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also> talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does>

anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think> everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very> hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking> at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking> frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a> grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get> back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never> have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called> JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see> about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he> will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is> scary. I think I need to

call the township like I keep saying to get a sign> in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and> also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that> dont know, know about . > > > > Stacie B> > Aurora IL> > > > > > _____ > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new> <http://www.stylelis t.com/trends? ncid=aolsty00050 000000014> fashion blog,> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.>

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Thanks tishanne! I feel so overwhelmed and so alone and I am very anxious and not feeling good! I am feeling dizzy right now! I get dizzy spells! And I have s IEP in a half hour too! I am glad you caught your son! That happened once to us in the living room and he had one leg over and I caught him! I am glad your son was ok! I need to get a sign in the neighborhood and inform all the neighbors that don't know and also get him a medical I'd! Any good places you know of to get this stuff? And someone told me about a band that is an alarm that tells you where your child is or something like if he gets to far! Will insurance pay for any of this if the dr writes a perscription?Thanks!Stacie BAurora ILSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 04:29:04 -0000To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: Re: oh no Hi Stacie,after going through the standard childproofs that never worked I put rabbit wire. I barely got hold of my of kid once as they were falling out the window. That did it for me. Before that time my son made it out to the road and a stranger was going door to door with my child until I answered. The nice thing about rabbit wire was my windows could still be open on nice days. You can buy it at garden centers or feed stores by the roll cheap,rust proof. I used a heavy duty staple gun and carpenter staples,tin snips. Make your cut outs a little larger then your window frame and staple on. What a day for you and your family! Tishanne -- In AutismBehaviorProblems , hawkie6@... wrote: > > Thanks! The only thing is, since was 3, he can get all kinds of locks > open. Everything also that is childproof has never been for him. We have > keys for all rooms of our house that we hve to use because everything is > locked. Thanks for responding. > Stacie > > > > > > > > If you have the kind of locks on your windows that have a latch, you can > screw up the screw so that the window, once latched, can't be unlocked. > Elaine > > oh no > > > > Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the > eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she > called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady > across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those > window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing > else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I > caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on > his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got > almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He > does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to > the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway > all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to > get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called > his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which > I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered > me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, > actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That > someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she > did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for > things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits > end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once > again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the > front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the > neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and > trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do > to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we > would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so > scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for > us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so > scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is > scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign > in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and > also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont > know, know about . > > Stacie B > Aurora IL > > > > > ____________________________________ > Psssst...Have you heard the news? _There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com_ > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) . > > > > > > > > > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) >

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Thanks so much Dora! And thanks for finding those links so you can send them to the group! Also do you know where that form is at? Is it saved on your PC? If so could you forward it or do you know a link I can get one from?Thanks!Stacie BAurora ILSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:35:24 -0700To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: RE: oh no One thing I would suggest is to inform your local police department of your son and his diagnosis and his compulsion to get out of the house, unawareness of danger, etc. I have a little form here somewhere that you can fill out and actually give to the police so that they can put in the computer things like how verbal your son is, whether he will run when called/pursued by a stranger, if he gets violent when scared or confused, and some of his favorite places to wander. This way you are being proactive in a couple of ways – if they ever find (Definitely get him ID of some kind!) they have info on how to best manage the situation and hopefully they won’t traumatize him trying to catch him. Also, If someone else calls the police about your son being out of the house unsupervised (i.e. they are reporting you for being such a negligent parent, LOL), the police will have already heard this from you and you don’t look like a ‘bad guy’ they need to keep an eye out for, you know? And third, If he gets out loose when you are home somehow and you can’t find him, you have already provided them with much needed information that they will need to help you search when you call 911. If you are the one to approach the police about your son’s condition and are the responsible parent requesting their help in keeping him safe, then you can call 911 without worry when you need to. And you should not hesitate to do so. We have had to have police help search for three times – once at the mall, once at the pumpkin patch, and once here in our town when he walked away from the park we were playing at. On all three occasions they have emphasized over and over that they would rather parents not wait to call them – many parents wait a while, trying to search on their own or with family for 30 minutes before ‘bothering’ the police. But they would rather come after 5 minutes and have the child safe and quickly found than have the family search for an hour before calling them and have the child be 2 miles away, in danger, or worse. I have some good links on child ID and safety products – I’ll look them up and forward them to the group. Huge hugs for you – have a good cry and know that tomorrow is a new day. Dora in WA From: AutismBehaviorProblems [mailto:AutismBehaviorProblems ] On Behalf Of hawkie6aolSent: Monday, September 15, 2008 7:34 PMTo: AutismBehaviorProblems Subject: oh no Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about . Stacie B Aurora IL Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Ya we have had a lock on the outside of his door since he was 3! Where do I go to find out if we have charities because I don't have a clue!Stacie BAurora ILSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:02:49 +0100To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: Re: oh no Do you have charities where you live that you could approach and ask for security measures to be put in place in your home. I know it is against fire regs but I would do anything I could to make that window secure - including nailing gluing shut. Also I would have locks on outside of his room so at night he could be locked in and have a cut out peice in the door you can open to see him. Also on all ways out of the house I would have audible alarms. Also let the local police know about your son I know some of these measures are controversial, some people would not take such severe measures and some people would not approach charity but adaptions are expensive and in my experience (I am in the UK though) charities are quite giving to causes like this. oh no Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about . Stacie B Aurora IL Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Thanks Twilla!Stacie BAurora IlSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:47:02 -0700 (PDT)To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: Re: oh no ,My 6 yrs old has never tried to climb out a window or get out of our house yet. however the case manager that I work with has suggested to us that we start proofing our house for her safety. She suggested to us to get all alarms on doors, windows, and bed, These are usually ear piercing is what I am told and will stop the child instantly because it scares them. I really don't have the experiance yet with them. They are trying to get them through some kind of waiver that she qualified for. The interesting thing I mentioned to the case worker is it didn't matter how loud the sound was for my 6 yr old child because she is totally deaf. :) So I thought it would be better for my family not to get the ear piercing sound ones. She laughed and said she had never thought of that. After 6 years of working with her I found this to be funny myself. Hope this and other responses will help you. I am so glad that your neighbor knew about it. My neighbors probably would of done nothing. Even though some know of her disabilites. I had a sign put up for deaf child area. We live in a subdivision and there were no signs up other then speed sign. No child at play or anything.TwillaFrom: hawkie6aol <hawkie6aol>Subject: oh noTo: AutismBehaviorProblems Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 10:34 PMWell, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about . Stacie BAurora IL Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Thanks Debra!StacieSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:55:36 -0400To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: Re: oh no I am not an expert on this, but I do have a few suggestions if you don't mind. up high on our basemnt door we have an eye n hook latch, this way adults can acess but i didn't have to worry about ym kids accidentially opeing the wrong door in the middle of the night. on windows i guess it would depened on thier construction. butIf autistic children are for the most part the same fine mortor skills are not up to speed? if so your hubby can drill small holes. one on each side and you can hammer in metal rods or wooden doels. ya know like you get on those cheap shevling units, you cannot get themn out with fingers you need a plier. to get out.. you could put it in at a hight that allows air to get in and not escape. you can also use larger ones if you feel the need to make it permanent. also in referance to stop signs, acrylic paint peels off windows in case he has a pension for ripping things down he doesn't want to see. and you can remove with a razor when your done. hopw this is atleast a help.debra byrne oh no Well, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about . Stacie B Aurora IL Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Thanks for this info! Very helpful!StacieSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:06:50 -0700 (PDT)To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: Re: oh no http://www..thechildrenshospital.org/wellness/safety/safekids/windowsafety.aspx Window GuardsWindow guards have been shown to reduce fatal falls by up to 35 percent asseen in a pilot study in New York City and the nonprofit product testing organization, ASTM International, has established voluntary standards to ensure window guards don’t interfere with emergency escape in a fire. In an apartment in a high-rise building, these devices should be considered essential safety equipment.The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) suggests contacting the following companies for more information about purchasing window guards. They are typically not available through local retailers but can be purchased online.Automatic Specialties, manufacturer of Guardian Angel Window Guards - 1- LL Building Products- 1- Sterling Corporation- 1- Window guards screw into the side of a window frame and have bars no more than 4 inches apart. They are sold in different sizes for various size windows and adjust for width. Guards must meet requirements for spacing and strength. In a home with young children it is critical that window guards that are installed have a release mechanism so that they can be opened for escape in a fire emergency. Guards that allow for escape in case of emergencies must be difficult for very young children to open.Other Safety Devices“Parents may also consider using other window safety devices such as window wedges or braces or removing the hand cranks on casement windows. The bottom line is to ensure that windows do not open more than 4 inches. Toddlers have been known to fall out of windows or get trapped in window openings in as little as 5 inches. Parents should be aware that windows provide a means of escape from a burning home, so whatever protection means are used they need to able be easily opened or removed in a fire emergency”, says Feuerborn. Still, no safety device can take the place of active adult supervision.. Always keep an eye on kids around open windows. Making your home child-safe is not a one-time project – It’s an ongoing activity.Window Safety RemindersSafe Kids Denver Metro also reminds parents and caregivers:Keep windows closed and locked when children are around, and keep furniture and anything that a child can climb away from windows to reduce the chances of a child falling through a window. When opening a window for ventilation chose one that a child cannot reach. If you have double-hung windows — the kind that can open down from the top as well as up from the bottom — it is generally safer to open the top pane, but growing kids may have enough strength, dexterity and curiosity to open the bottom pane. Don’t assume an unlocked window is childproof. Set and enforce rules that your child cannot play near windows especially the activity many kids love – jumping on the bed. Strategic landscaping may lessen the extent of injury sustained in the event of a fall. Shrubs and soft edging such as wood chips or grass under a window can cushion potential falls. Never try to move a child who appears to be seriously injured after a fall — call 911 and let trained medical personnel move the child with proper precautions. (Of course, if a child is not breathing and you are trained in CPR, as all parents should be, follow your CPR protocols.)Finally, while you’re childproofing your windows, take a moment to secure the curtain pulls or blind cords out of reach — kids have been strangled while playing with dangling cords. Install safety tassels on the ends of the curtain pulls or cut the loops so a child is less likely to get trapped.For more information about window safety, falls and childproofing, call Safe Kids Denver Metro at , whose members include childproofing professionals or visit www.usa.safekids.org. Another window safety resource is the National Safety Council .Safe Kids Denver Metro works to prevent accidental childhood injury, the leading killer of children 14 years and under. Its members include individuals from over 50 health and safety agencies and organizations throughout the Denver metropolitan area including childproofing professionals. Safe Kids Denver Metro is a member of Safe Kids Worldwide, a global network of organizations dedicated to preventing accidental injury. Safe Kids Denver Metro was founded in 1998 and is led by The Children's Hospital.SincerelyRuePennFrom: Debra Byrne <patrickbyrne2comcast (DOT) net>Subject: Re: oh noTo: AutismBehaviorProblemsyahoogroups (DOT) .comDate: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:55 PMI am not an expert on this, but I do have a few suggestions if you don't mind. up high on our basemnt door we have an eye n hook latch, this way adults can acess but i didn't have to worry about ym kids accidentially opeing the wrong door in the middle of the night. on windows i guess it would depened on thier construction. butIf autistic children are for the most part the same fine mortor skills are not up to speed? if so your hubby can drill small holes. one on each side and you can hammer in metal rods or wooden doels. ya know like you get on those cheap shevling units, you cannot get themn out with fingers you need a plier. to get out... you could put it in at a hight that allows air to get in and not escape. you can also use larger ones if you feel the need to make it permanent. also in referance to stop signs, acrylic paint peels off windows in case he has a pension for ripping things down he doesn't want to see. and you can remove with a razor when your done. hopw this is atleast a help.debra byrne oh noWell, today was not a good day. I had to take my middle child to the eye Dr. and Lexie watched while was taking a nap. well, she called me and said we have a problem mom. got out of his window and the lady across the street brought him to the door. I was horrified. We have those window locks on them, but he figured those out too, just like everthuing else. He has climbed out of the living room window, or tried I should say, and I caught him halfway out. We were worried about his room because he steps on his toys instead of plays with them, so I went through his room and got almost all of it cleaned out a couple months ago except for a few things. He does not play with them anyhow. Well, when I got home, his bed was pushed up to the window so that is what helped him. And the screen was on the driveway all bent up. I talked to the lady to see what she seen because it is hard to get anything out of . He does not understand cause and affect. I called his teacher and for now, she says to put the stop signs on his wondows which I did and asked him what does this say, what does this mean and he answered me. She said he does pretty good with it at school on the door. Well, actually I emailed her and asked her to call me when she had a chance. That someting else had happened. I did not think she would call me from home but she did. She said she will also talk to him tomorrow sbout it and look for things we can do. So, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am at my whits end, and when I think everything is ok and secure etc, he outsmarts us once again. It is so very hard. The neighbor lady said she seen him going to the front door, looking at it and then to the back door, and then in the neighbors yard, looking frantic. Then she said he was looking up at his windown and trying to get a grip on the shingles of the house which you know you cant do to try to get back up there. THank God he is on the first floor. Well, we would never have it any other way. I dont know what to do and I am so scared. I called JIm at work, and he is going to call someone who does work for us to see about getting some kind of lock on them. I dont know. I am so scared he will get out tonight. The signs are on there now, but you know, it is scary. I think I need to call the township like I keep saying to get a sign in front of my house that an Autistic kid lives in neighborhood caution, and also an ID bracelet and also going around and letting the neighbors that dont know, know about . Stacie BAurora IL Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Thank you so much e and especially all the kind words!StacieSent via BlackBerry by AT&TDate: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:07:41 -0700 (PDT)To: <AutismBehaviorProblems >Subject: Re: oh no Hi, sweet Stacie... ((((((HUGS))))))))) --- Hey can you purchase a window alarm? I know they sell them...also you might want to have your husband put a removable screw in his window...main thing is that you know when something opens...so look into getting a front/back door alarm, and also one for his window...I will find a link for one today, and send it to you privately. God love you Stacie. You are such a terrific mom------I remember we all had this conversation a while back...They'll have more suggestions then I. e oh no.

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