Guest guest Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I posted Dr Marinkovich's paper under " files " if anyone is interested. Re ammonia -- I'm noticing that it helps but still isn't 100% especially on clothes, and especially if they are re-exposed. The other thing is that, due to my MCS, I react to the ammonia, although it is much more tolerable than a mycotoxin reaction so I'll take it! However, if remediating a whole house for someone who is chemically sensitive, I'm still unsure if this would work. We used the IAQM.com hydrogen peroxide/ammon quats mixture in one car and I still can't go in that car because of the chemical reactions I get. We have not yet used ammonia only on a car, as we were trying to see if simple hep vacuuming, gse spray, and endless cleaning would help. It helps, but again, still not 100%. I might have my husband wipe down some hard surfaces with ammonia/water mix on some objects as a test. I'll keep you posted on the results... Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Stuart, My feeling is that people can become sensitized to all sorts of chemicals in the soup. I think that the bioactive contaminants typically promote sensitization to (esp.) volatile compounds. Each of those volatiles or semivolatiles can have much different substantivity/adsorption/absorption properties that make them difficult or impossible to remove from some surfaces with solvents or surfactants. If they have double bonds or more reactive functional groups (such as epoxide rings), they may be rendered "non-triggering" by reacting with acids or bases or oxidizing with bleach or peroxide or even ozone. I agree with you that the multiple pronged attack is more likely to be more effective in removing or reacting most of the environmental chemical triggers. In the end, though, I think it is usually only one compound that is the trigger (for those who first become sensitized, not necessarily for those who already have MCS and react to a multitude of chemicals) and that one method or strategy (maybe even a "bake-out" procedure) will be most effective for that particular compound if you can figure out what works. That's why the sensitized person must get clear/become unmasked to be able to determine what is working. It is totally conceivable to me that ammonia will work for one person's trigger chemical and hydrogen peroxide will work for another's. So, I say try the whole spectrum, one-at-a-time, and let the sensitized person decide what is working because no one else can really tell. Ideally, you would identify the specific trigger using analytical methods (as Branislav has discussed here in the past), but that's for another post. Some people do react at ppt concentrations. I liked your point about the possibilities of severe sensitivities being analogous to how bloodhounds can pick up a days old human scent. I think there are parallels in terms of neural receptor sensitivity. Pretty often nothing works well enough to remove a hypersensitivity trigger totally and you just have throw out everything that's "bad" and keep the levels down to a somewhat tolerable level and hope that you aren't doing systemic damage due to being chronically exposed. I know there are more than a few people here who know what I mean. Anyway, it's late. Shout-out to the conference attendees. Wish I was there. Steve Temes That doesnt surprise me as the ammoniaOH use from the paper refered specifically to tricothenes (sp?). In the real world the mixture of contaminants is probably much more complex. When dealing with an unknown compound I would tend to use a multiple approach especially on wet wiping hard surfaces - water, alcohol, acid, base, detergent & peroxide. That should cover just about all possibilities. Obviously all of those approaches cant be applied on all materials. When you say you used 'hydrogen peroxide/ammon quats' what do you mean? What exactly did you use? The thing I like about peroxide is the fact that it degrades to innocuous compounds. Although there is no guarantee what it may degrade other compounds to. If you used a commercial product I would be concerned about the fillers and non- active ingredients in those products. Especially where MCS is concerned. Steve, youre the chemist... Feel free to jump in here... ;-> Stuart > >I posted Dr Marinkovich's paper under "files" if anyone is interested. > >Re ammonia -- I'm noticing that it helps but still isn't 100% >especially on clothes, and especially if they are re-exposed. The other >thing is that, due to my MCS, I react to the ammonia, although it is >much more tolerable than a mycotoxin reaction so I'll take it! > >However, if remediating a whole house for someone who is chemically >sensitive, I'm still unsure if this would work. We used the IAQM.com >hydrogen peroxide/ammon quats mixture in one car and I still can't go >in that car because of the chemical reactions I get. We have not yet >used ammonia only on a car, as we were trying to see if simple hep >vacuuming, gse spray, and endless cleaning would help. It helps, but >again, still not 100%. > >I might have my husband wipe down some hard surfaces with ammonia/water >mix on some objects as a test. > >I'll keep you posted on the results... > >Jill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 That doesnt surprise me as the ammoniaOH use from the paper refered specifically to tricothenes (sp?). In the real world the mixture of contaminants is probably much more complex. When dealing with an unknown compound I would tend to use a multiple approach especially on wet wiping hard surfaces - water, alcohol, acid, base, detergent & peroxide. That should cover just about all possibilities. Obviously all of those approaches cant be applied on all materials. When you say you used 'hydrogen peroxide/ammon quats' what do you mean? What exactly did you use? The thing I like about peroxide is the fact that it degrades to innocuous compounds. Although there is no guarantee what it may degrade other compounds to. If you used a commercial product I would be concerned about the fillers and non- active ingredients in those products. Especially where MCS is concerned. Steve, youre the chemist... Feel free to jump in here... ;-> Stuart > > I posted Dr Marinkovich's paper under " files " if anyone is interested. > > Re ammonia -- I'm noticing that it helps but still isn't 100% > especially on clothes, and especially if they are re-exposed. The other > thing is that, due to my MCS, I react to the ammonia, although it is > much more tolerable than a mycotoxin reaction so I'll take it! > > However, if remediating a whole house for someone who is chemically > sensitive, I'm still unsure if this would work. We used the IAQM.com > hydrogen peroxide/ammon quats mixture in one car and I still can't go > in that car because of the chemical reactions I get. We have not yet > used ammonia only on a car, as we were trying to see if simple hep > vacuuming, gse spray, and endless cleaning would help. It helps, but > again, still not 100%. > > I might have my husband wipe down some hard surfaces with ammonia/water > mix on some objects as a test. > > I'll keep you posted on the results... > > Jill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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