Re: He's not symmetrical!

[Guest guest]

My smile is lopsided and one eye sort of goes off to the side too in

photo's. Hmmm, it probably does it all the time, but it's really noticable

in photos. I've noticed the same traits in many of us with AS/hfa.

sandi

He's not symmetrical!

>

>

>

> This is a bit bizarre, and I'm a tad embarressed writing about it, but I'm

curious enough about it to see what others might think.

>

> Maxs' school pictures came back, and once again he has a funny expression,

a sort of half-smile on the left hand side of his face. I also was trying to

figure out just what he was doing with his eyes, and while his right eye is

straight on, his left eye seems to be the smallest bit moved to the right.

>

> Also -- and I swear I have never noticed this before --- his left ear is a

'normal' distance coming out from his head while his right ear lays flat

against his head. If you glanced at the photo you would think he doesn't

have a right ear. Just to check, this evening I asked him to look at me

straight on, and sure enough, the right ear lays flat while the left sticks

out.

>

> This isn't the most important thing in the world, but why have I not

noticed this? I'm supposed to have an eye for detail, lol. When I look at

him all I see is a growing young man who is quite handsome, and none of this

'detracts' from that, but maybe b/c I'm his mother I wouldn't think so and

perhaps it really is quite jarring to others?

>

> But I am wondering if I should be concerned about what may be his 'roving'

eye (or is it called 'wandering' eye?)

>

> Nanne,

>

> the apparently non-observant

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sandi wrote:

My smile is lopsided and one eye sort of goes off to the side too in

photo's. Hmmm, it probably does it all the time, but it's really noticable

in photos. I've noticed the same traits in many of us with AS/hfa.

sandi

----------Hmmmm.... Okay, how about a new poll?? How many of us out there are

lopsided in some ways? lol

Come to think of it, my friend Jerome has told me before that when I'm

drinking my left eye wanders off. (not that I drink much or often, mind you, he

and I on occassion sit in the backyard with a few beers and yak and yak and

crack each other up; he;s one of the few people who actually enjoy my mind going

off on tangents).

I do know that one eye is lower than the other also. Oh, gads, are

we all really quasimodos but b/c of our AS we only see each others inner

beauty? lolol

Nanne

He's not symmetrical!

>

>

>

> This is a bit bizarre, and I'm a tad embarressed writing about it, but I'm

curious enough about it to see what others might think.

>

> Maxs' school pictures came back, and once again he has a funny expression,

a sort of half-smile on the left hand side of his face. I also was trying to

figure out just what he was doing with his eyes, and while his right eye is

straight on, his left eye seems to be the smallest bit moved to the right.

>

> Also -- and I swear I have never noticed this before --- his left ear is a

'normal' distance coming out from his head while his right ear lays flat

against his head. If you glanced at the photo you would think he doesn't

have a right ear. Just to check, this evening I asked him to look at me

straight on, and sure enough, the right ear lays flat while the left sticks

out.

>

> This isn't the most important thing in the world, but why have I not

noticed this? I'm supposed to have an eye for detail, lol. When I look at

him all I see is a growing young man who is quite handsome, and none of this

'detracts' from that, but maybe b/c I'm his mother I wouldn't think so and

perhaps it really is quite jarring to others?

>

> But I am wondering if I should be concerned about what may be his 'roving'

eye (or is it called 'wandering' eye?)

>

> Nanne,

>

> the apparently non-observant

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have some of the same traits you noticed in your son--the asymmetrical smile,

and the drifting eye. The problem with the eye in my case is due to amblyopia

( " lazy eye " ) that was never treated. Have you ever had Max checked for the

condition?

He's not symmetrical!

This is a bit bizarre, and I'm a tad embarressed writing about it, but I'm

curious enough about it to see what others might think.

Maxs' school pictures came back, and once again he has a funny expression, a

sort of half-smile on the left hand side of his face. I also was trying to

figure out just what he was doing with his eyes, and while his right eye is

straight on, his left eye seems to be the smallest bit moved to the right.

Also -- and I swear I have never noticed this before --- his left ear is a

'normal' distance coming out from his head while his right ear lays flat against

his head. If you glanced at the photo you would think he doesn't have a right

ear. Just to check, this evening I asked him to look at me straight on, and sure

enough, the right ear lays flat while the left sticks out.

This isn't the most important thing in the world, but why have I not noticed

this? I'm supposed to have an eye for detail, lol. When I look at him all I see

is a growing young man who is quite handsome, and none of this 'detracts' from

that, but maybe b/c I'm his mother I wouldn't think so and perhaps it really is

quite jarring to others?

But I am wondering if I should be concerned about what may be his 'roving' eye

(or is it called 'wandering' eye?)

Nanne,

the apparently non-observant

[Guest guest]

At 05:01 PM 12/5/02 -0800, Cerulean wrote:

<<<This isn't the most important thing in the world, but why have I not

noticed this? I'm supposed to have an eye for detail, lol. When I look at

him all I see is a growing young man who is quite handsome, and none of

this 'detracts' from that, but maybe b/c I'm his mother I wouldn't think so

and perhaps it really is quite jarring to others?>>>

Perfectly symmetrical human faces are exceedingly rare. Start looking at

everyone's face, checking for symmetry, and you'll see what I mean. Try

taking digital files of photos of yourself and other people where the

subject is directly facing the camera and using a graphics editor, divide

the face into halves then reconstruct them using cut, paste and horizontal

flip into mirror-image faces made of two left halves and two right halves

and compare the two. Even faces that appear symmetrical are revealed to be

quite asymmetrical when subjected to this treatment.

also check out some of these links if you're interested in facial symmetry

issues:

http://www.learn-to-draw.com/drawing-people/07-symmetry.htm

http://www.uic.edu/classes/orla/orla312/TeethBeautyBiologyHealth.htm

http://www.voicetraining.co.uk/doc_misalignment.htm

http://www.bio.utk.edu/neils.nsf/2700cc9c7c94b8be852563b7006b5bff/3100ebafb7

027e728525651d00479393

http://www.cs.uwa.edu.au/~davido/

<<<But I am wondering if I should be concerned about what may be his

'roving' eye (or is it called 'wandering' eye?)>>>

Ask his doctor to check him for amblyopeia (sp?) It's called " lazy eye " and

he might have a mild case of it. If the doctor doesn't think so, though,

don't worry about it. My sister had lazy eye very badly and had to have eye

surgery as a baby and then wear an eyepatch for years. If Max has mild lazy

eye, the most likely thing they'd do is have him wear an eye patch all the

time for a year or two to make the lazy eye stronger. If you think a couple

of years in an eyepatch would be too much to put on him (my sister was very

frustrated with hers) and he doesn't appear to have any perceptual problems

and the misalignment is so mild that it's not readily noticeable then don't

even mention it to the doctor.

You might also see if the mouth asymmetry is due to temporomandibular

dysfunction (read the third link listed above for more info on TMD.)

Chances are, though, that Max's face is completely normal and you're just

surprised because you've never noticed the prevalence of facial asymmetry

before.

[Guest guest]

Nanne wrote:

>----------Hmmmm.... Okay, how about a new poll??

>How many of us out there are lopsided in some ways? lol

I'm too faceblind to be any help here. Don't have

photos of myself, anyway.

Jane

[Guest guest]

> But I am wondering if I should be concerned about what may be his

> 'roving' eye (or is it called 'wandering' eye?)

Having a roving eye means that he likes to look at his preferred gender

(ie, girls if he's straight, boys if he's gay.)

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Proud to be Canuckistanian

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

Newstead wrote:

I have some of the same traits you noticed in your son--the asymmetrical smile,

and the drifting eye. The problem with the eye in my case is due to amblyopia

( " lazy eye " ) that was never treated. Have you ever had Max checked for the

condition?

[

----------------------No, I haven't but perhaps should check into it. What kind

of treatment does it entail?

Nanne

[Guest guest]

Hi Sparrow....

Thanks for links, I'll take a look. Having drawn plenty of faces before,

I've known about faces not being perfectly symmetrical; I've just never noticed

it so glaringly so as in Maxs' school picture before. And I do think the

wandering eye is something i should check into.

Nanne

Sparrow Rose Cross wrote:At 05:01 PM 12/5/02

-0800, Cerulean wrote:

<<noticed this? I'm supposed to have an eye for detail, lol. When I look at

him all I see is a growing young man who is quite handsome, and none of

this 'detracts' from that, but maybe b/c I'm his mother I wouldn't think so

and perhaps it really is quite jarring to others?>>>

Perfectly symmetrical human faces are exceedingly rare. Start looking at

everyone's face, checking for symmetry, and you'll see what I mean. Try

taking digital files of photos of yourself and other people where the

subject is directly facing the camera and using a graphics editor, divide

the face into halves then reconstruct them using cut, paste and horizontal

flip into mirror-image faces made of two left halves and two right halves

and compare the two. Even faces that appear symmetrical are revealed to be

quite asymmetrical when subjected to this treatment.

also check out some of these links if you're interested in facial symmetry

issues:

http://www.learn-to-draw.com/drawing-people/07-symmetry.htm

http://www.uic.edu/classes/orla/orla312/TeethBeautyBiologyHealth.htm

http://www.voicetraining.co.uk/doc_misalignment.htm

http://www.bio.utk.edu/neils.nsf/2700cc9c7c94b8be852563b7006b5bff/3100ebafb7

027e728525651d00479393

http://www.cs.uwa.edu.au/~davido/

<<'roving' eye (or is it called 'wandering' eye?)>>>

Ask his doctor to check him for amblyopeia (sp?) It's called " lazy eye " and

he might have a mild case of it. If the doctor doesn't think so, though,

don't worry about it. My sister had lazy eye very badly and had to have eye

surgery as a baby and then wear an eyepatch for years. If Max has mild lazy

eye, the most likely thing they'd do is have him wear an eye patch all the

time for a year or two to make the lazy eye stronger. If you think a couple

of years in an eyepatch would be too much to put on him (my sister was very

frustrated with hers) and he doesn't appear to have any perceptual problems

and the misalignment is so mild that it's not readily noticeable then don't

even mention it to the doctor.

You might also see if the mouth asymmetry is due to temporomandibular

dysfunction (read the third link listed above for more info on TMD.)

Chances are, though, that Max's face is completely normal and you're just

surprised because you've never noticed the prevalence of facial asymmetry

before.

[Guest guest]

" Iris M. Gray " wrote:

> But I am wondering if I should be concerned about what may be his

> 'roving' eye (or is it called 'wandering' eye?)

Having a roving eye means that he likes to look at his preferred gender

(ie, girls if he's straight, boys if he's gay.)

Iris

-------------lolol --- well, I better still get it checked out so he's able to

look at them with BOTH eyes!

Nanne

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Proud to be Canuckistanian

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

At 05:46 PM 12/5/02 -0800, Cerulean wrote:

<<<----------Hmmmm.... Okay, how about a new poll?? How many of us out

there are lopsided in some ways? lol>>>

I'm asymmetrical in my eyes and mouth but highly symmetrical in ears,

eyebrows and breasts.

<<<Oh, gads, are we all really quasimodos but b/c of our AS we only see

each others inner beauty? lolol>>>

I used to work as a model when I was younger and thinner, so I doubt being

HFA/AS = quasimodo.

A search on + " facial asymmetry " + " autism " found a few links that suggest a

connection between spectrum conditions and facial asymmetry:

" subtle physical anomalies: facial asymmetry, some have larger than normal

head circumference: a distinguishing feature of autism "

from " AUTISTIC DISORDER "

http://www.psych.ucalgary.ca/CourseNotes/p02/PSYC359/Chapter10.html

" Adolescent and adult patients have a long thin face with prominent ears,

facial asymmetry, a head circumference higher than the 50th percentile, and

a prominent forehead and jaw. "

from " Fragile X Syndrome "

http://www.emedicine.com/PED/topic800.htm

" Flat occiput, dolichocephaly, bitemporal narrowing, ridging of metopic

suture, facial asymmetry, and prominent mandible. "

from " Multiple Congenital Anomaly/Mental Retardation (MCA/MR) Syndromes "

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/jablonski/syndromes/syndrome176.html

All this talk of larger-than-normal head circumference got me curious. I

found a LOT of information about infants and children with enlarged

craniums but next to nothing about adults. Does the tendency for people

with autism to have a larger-than-normal head measurement continue into

adulthood or do we " grow out of it " ?

The only thing I could find about adult head sizes was a page that said

" The average head circumference of a sample of 35 men was 57.0 cm, while

the average head circumference of a sample of 26 women was 55.6 cm. "

http://data.cyberk.com/smpl/instructor/literacyC8.html (it was part of a

class experiment which explains why the sample size is so small.)

I measured my head circumference (for anyone else who wants to play along,

measure snugly around the widest part of the head above the ears and just

above the eyebrows) and mine was 55.8 cm which puts me very close to the

average mentioned on the instructor's page. My parents didn't keep a baby

book on me so unfortunately there's no way I can find out what my

circumference measurements were when I was a child.

Does anyone know if adults with autism also tend to have

larger-than-average head circumference measurements or is that just a

childhood event?

[Guest guest]

Sparrow Rose Cross wrote:

> I measured my head circumference (for anyone else who wants to play along,

> measure snugly around the widest part of the head above the ears and just

> above the eyebrows) and mine was 55.8 cm which puts me very close to the

> average mentioned on the instructor's page. My parents didn't keep a baby

> book on me so unfortunately there's no way I can find out what my

> circumference measurements were when I was a child.

I get 59.4cm. I am tall (6'4 " /193cm) and have a heavy-duty bone structure,

though, so I

would consider that to be proportionate.

> Does anyone know if adults with autism also tend to have

> larger-than-average head circumference measurements or is that just a

> childhood event?

Autistic brains are supposed to be 10% larger than NT brains on average, but the

data I

saw never explained whether that was related to a larger skull, a thinner

cranial wall, or

a tighter packing in the skull with proportionately less cerebrospinal fluid. I

have

heard of larger cranial diameter with Rett's syndrome, but I have not read any

specifics

about it with relation to autism proper.

I do not know about facial asymmetry myself... I avoid looking in the mirror as

much as

possible, so I really do not know.

[Guest guest]

Message: 16

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:46:08 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: He's not symmetrical!

hrmm!! Sandi, you did not look lopsided to me, then i think well, if i have a

lopsided eye too, then is my vision slightly lopsided so that the people i think

are straight are really crooked, and the people i think are crooked are actually

straight.

merls

Sandi wrote:

My smile is lopsided and one eye sort of goes off to the side too in

photo's. Hmmm, it probably does it all the time, but it's really noticable

in photos. I've noticed the same traits in many of us with AS/hfa.

sandi

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[Guest guest]

LOL merls!

Maybe I'm just being a perfectionist virgo then. Hmmm, this virgo isn't

coping too well with enforced bedrest for high blood pressure. I think I

have 'cabin fever'. I've GOT to get out of this house, if only for half an

hour....

sandi

Re: He's not symmetrical!

> hrmm!! Sandi, you did not look lopsided to me, then i think well, if i

have a lopsided eye too, then is my vision slightly lopsided so that the

people i think are straight are really crooked, and the people i think are

crooked are actually straight.

> merls

>

>

> Sandi wrote:

> My smile is lopsided and one eye sort of goes off to the side too in

> photo's. Hmmm, it probably does it all the time, but it's really noticable

> in photos. I've noticed the same traits in many of us with AS/hfa.

> sandi

>

>

> __________________________________________________________________

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>

[Guest guest]

I don't know if they still do this, but the treatment when I was a child was to

patch the " good " eye to force the weak one to work. Unfortunately, I panicked

when I became suddenly " blind " , and kept tearing the eye patch off. I think now

they supplement the patch treatment with eye exercises and special lenses.

Re: He's not symmetrical!

Newstead wrote:

I have some of the same traits you noticed in your son--the asymmetrical

smile, and the drifting eye. The problem with the eye in my case is due to

amblyopia ( " lazy eye " ) that was never treated. Have you ever had Max checked for

the condition?

[

----------------------No, I haven't but perhaps should check into it. What

kind of treatment does it entail?

Nanne

[Guest guest]

>

> Come to think of it, my friend Jerome has told me before that when I'm

drinking my left

> eye wanders off. (not that I drink much or often, mind you, he and I

on occassion sit in the

> backyard with a few beers and yak and yak and crack each other up;

he;s one of the few people who

> actually enjoy my mind going off on tangents).

>

> I do know that one eye is lower than the other also. Oh, gads, are we

all really

> quasimodos but b/c of our AS we only see each others inner beauty?

lolol

My right eye turns in ever so slightly-its much more pronounced when I

am nervous or in shutdown (apparently its in ALL the way if Im totally

gone).

Except for that I think Im pretty symmetrical...everyone has one eye

lower than the other...

Kassiane

_______________________________________________________________

Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

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[Guest guest]

I very much doubt small differences in head circumference affect

intelligence within the same species. We only use around 20% of our brain

cells anyway. Our performance depends largely on hardwiring, affecting our

interface, and on the configuration of the software (life's experiences)

that runs on top of our cerebral hardware.

Neil

Re: He's not symmetrical!

> Sparrow Rose Cross wrote:

>

> > I measured my head circumference (for anyone else who wants to play

along,

> > measure snugly around the widest part of the head above the ears and

just

> > above the eyebrows) and mine was 55.8 cm which puts me very close to the

> > average mentioned on the instructor's page. My parents didn't keep a

baby

> > book on me so unfortunately there's no way I can find out what my

> > circumference measurements were when I was a child.

>

> I get 59.4cm. I am tall (6'4 " /193cm) and have a heavy-duty bone

structure, though, so I

> would consider that to be proportionate.

>

>

> > Does anyone know if adults with autism also tend to have

> > larger-than-average head circumference measurements or is that just a

> > childhood event?

>

> Autistic brains are supposed to be 10% larger than NT brains on average,

but the data I

> saw never explained whether that was related to a larger skull, a thinner

cranial wall, or

> a tighter packing in the skull with proportionately less cerebrospinal

fluid. I have

> heard of larger cranial diameter with Rett's syndrome, but I have not read

any specifics

> about it with relation to autism proper.

>

> I do not know about facial asymmetry myself... I avoid looking in the

mirror as much as

> possible, so I really do not know.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Whoops. My previous comments got the other 80% of my brain cells working and

the old adage about only using 10-20% of one's brain cells is a fallacy, see

http://www.theness.com/articles/brain-nejs0201.html . However, I still

believe it hard to prove a correspondence between head circumference or

brain size and intelligence.

Neil

[Guest guest]

Kassiane wrote:

>My right eye turns in ever so slightly-its much more pronounced when I

>am nervous or in shutdown (apparently its in ALL the way if Im totally

>gone).

>Except for that I think Im pretty symmetrical...everyone has one eye

>lower than the other...

Oh, that reminds me. Although I can't tell whether my face

or facial features are symmetrical, I have been told (e.g.,

by my eye doctor) that the pupils of my eyes are different

sizes.

Jane

[Guest guest]

At 04:44 PM 12/6/02 -0000, Neil Gardner wrote:

>I very much doubt small differences in head circumference affect

>intelligence within the same species.

But, as you know, autism is not about intelligence -- it does not equal

mental retardation.

>We only use around 20% of our brain

>cells anyway.

Do you have a reference for that? I've heard 5% as a " pop " figure but the

serious books I read and shows I watch seem to indicate that we use every

bit of our brain and nothing " goes to waste. "

[Guest guest]

At 05:07 PM 12/6/02 -0000, Neil Gardner wrote:

>Whoops. My previous comments got the other 80% of my brain cells working and

>the old adage about only using 10-20% of one's brain cells is a fallacy, see

>http://www.theness.com/articles/brain-nejs0201.html .

Oops for me, too. I responded to you before I read your second post.

>However, I still

>believe it hard to prove a correspondence between head circumference or

>brain size and intelligence.

Read my post again -- I had found indications that people with AUTISM not

people with lower or higher intelligence have somewhat larger heads than

the average.

[Guest guest]

At 10:34 AM 12/6/02 -0800, Jane Meyerding wrote:

>Oh, that reminds me. Although I can't tell whether my face

>or facial features are symmetrical, I have been told (e.g.,

>by my eye doctor) that the pupils of my eyes are different

>sizes.

How unusual. Did your doctor say why? The singer Bowie has two

different sizes of pupils (often mistaken for two different colored eyes)

because he had a head trauma as a teen (hit in the head with a ball.) Did

you have a trauma, too, or is it soemthing you were born with. Does it

affect your vision? (I think Bowie is now blind out of the eye with the

dilated pupil but I'm not certain about that.)

[Guest guest]

I wrote:

>>Oh, that reminds me. Although I can't tell whether my face

>>or facial features are symmetrical, I have been told (e.g.,

>>by my eye doctor) that the pupils of my eyes are different

>>sizes.

and Sparrow responded:

>How unusual. Did your doctor say why? The singer Bowie has two

>different sizes of pupils (often mistaken for two different colored eyes)

>because he had a head trauma as a teen (hit in the head with a ball.) Did

>you have a trauma, too, or is it soemthing you were born with. Does it

>affect your vision? (I think Bowie is now blind out of the eye with the

>dilated pupil but I'm not certain about that.)

No, the doctor didn't say why. But I did have a head injury

with I was five or six -- not major, but in the process of

being hit by a car I got bashed in the head enough to require

stitches. I don't know which eye has the " non-standard "

pupil. In fact, it never occurred to me that, with a subject

population of two, it would be possible to determine which

is the " abnormal " one.

My right eye has a " macular pucker " (epiretinal membrane)

such that I can't read with both eyes. Because my right

eye does not have sharp focus (because of the disrupted

macula), the lines of type (or anything else requiring

fine focus) bounce around and sort of writhe if I try to

focus on them with both eyes. It gives me a headache if

I deal with this problme by squinching up my right eye

every time I need sharp focus, so I created an adapter

for myself. When I need focus, I slip a pair of clip-on

sunglasses onto my regular glasses. I have removed the

left lens and painted the right lens opaque black.

The doctor who diagnosed the macular pucker asked if I'd

had a head injury and I said " no " because I thought he

meant a recent injury, not one 45 years ago. So I guess

it's possible that a macular pucker can be caused by a

head trauma. And if the head trauma caused my macular

pucker, I suppoed it could have caused the pupils to be

of a different size, too.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Sparrow Rose Cross wrote:

How unusual. Did your doctor say why? The singer Bowie has two

different sizes of pupils (often mistaken for two different colored eyes)

because he had a head trauma as a teen (hit in the head with a ball.) Did

you have a trauma, too, or is it soemthing you were born with. Does it

affect your vision? (I think Bowie is now blind out of the eye with the

dilated pupil but I'm not certain about that.)

------------he does have the one larger pupil, but also one eye is green while

the other is brown.

Nanne

[Guest guest]

At 12:16 AM 12/7/02 -0800, Cerulean wrote:

>------------he does have the one larger pupil, but also one eye is green

while the other is brown.

No, I saw an interview with him last month and he explained why his eyes

were that way and said that the apparent color difference is an illusion

created by the different sizes of pupils and that his eyes are actually

both the same color (though he played up the " different color " thing for

years because it made him stand out.)

[Guest guest]

Re: He's not symmetrical!

> At 04:44 PM 12/6/02 -0000, Neil Gardner wrote:

> >I very much doubt small differences in head circumference affect

> >intelligence within the same species.

>

> But, as you know, autism is not about intelligence -- it does not equal

> mental retardation.

>

> >We only use around 20% of our brain

> >cells anyway.

>

> Do you have a reference for that? I've heard 5% as a " pop " figure but the

> serious books I read and shows I watch seem to indicate that we use every

> bit of our brain and nothing " goes to waste. "

There is obviously a very wide variation in effective intellectual

functioning. I never cease to be amazed how some folk will fill their brains

with junk knowledge about the characters of TV sitcoms, but know very little

about their government's dirty tricks at home or abroad. So what's the

difference in the brain of a highly articulate and well-read multilingual

neurosurgeon and that of a bricklayer who watches junk TV and goes to the

pub in his spare time. As members of the same species and probably of the

same thnic group, IMHO there is probably no significant difference in brain

size. They merely use their brains in radically different ways. The

higher-functioning members of society tend to rely more on advanced

intellectualisation, rather than gradual osmosis (acquisition of skills and

knowledge through experience). While the bricklayer would be hard pushed to

name one Latinate part of the brain, the brain surgeon probably wouldn't

survive a day on a building site, but earns 5-8 more and lives in an

affluent neighbourhood.

Neil