Re: Does PEG degrade and convert to toxin in your GI tract?

[Guest guest]

Wow LeeAnn, I think you're on to something here.............I can't seem to find that article could you copy and paste it for me? The company said, It doesn't break down and so have so many other's, Your research is MUCH appreciated. This could explain why there is so much stinging, burning, etc. I did look up acetate and acetic acid though......... mommtlc wrote: Ok -- this requires a little stretching, but follow this please. They found that miralax DOES degrade with

certain bacteria. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=239286 & pageindex=1http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=239126 & pageindex=1#pagein fact if you search pubmed you'll find more when you use the keywords PEG and sludge -- yes the tests were with sewage sludge. As I read the test results, it says that PEG was degraded into acetate and other byproducts, but their conclusion was that it was "safe". HmmmIf I had a child with abnormal bactria like clostridia in their GI tract, I would run from PEG as fast as I could.

[Guest guest]

This is what I proposed a while back - based on those environmental

studies. The problem with most of the research I've seen regarding

the degradation of PEG by bacteria in sewage sludge is that it has

been done from an environmental standpoint, and not from a human

ingestion standpoint. Obviously if these strains of PEG degrading

bacteria are found in sewage sludge then there is a good chance they

came out of human excrement in the sewage. That said, to my knowledge

there are no studies in humans to determine if PEG is broken down in

the GI tract.

What I have been trying to find out (by emailing researchers and

others in the field) is if any of the identified PEG degrading strains

have been found in the human GI tract. Again, I don't think anyone

has directly tested this. My personal belief is that absolutely there

are some PEG degraders in the human GI tract, but until there are

official studies done, no one in the medical community will take it

seriously.

There is one strain that I am certain *CAN* live in the human GI tract

and does degrade PEG. That is Pseudomonas aeruginosa. I have been

told (but have not confirmed this yet) that in some autistic children,

there may be elevated levels of Pseudomonas bacteria.

Other strains (e.g., the pelobacter strains) are related to the

" desulfo- " bacteria and there are some desulfo strains that can live

in the human GI tract.

And, LeeAnn, your instinct is right on (as always!)- because I think

some of the desulfo's are also slightly related to the clostridia

strains.

I believe that in these poor kids receiving multiple, large Miralax

doses without passing a stool for a week or two, there is plenty of

time for these bacteria to go to town on the PEG.

Below are two abstracts (of many) that are of interest.

Appl Environ Microbiol. 1983 Jun;45(6):1905-13.

Fermentative degradation of polyethylene glycol by a strictly

anaerobic, gram-negative, nonsporeforming bacterium, Pelobacter

venetianus sp. nov.

Schink B, Stieb M.

The synthetic polyether polyethylene glycol (PEG) with a molecular

weight of 20,000 was anaerobically degraded in enrichment culture

inoculated with mud of limnic and marine origins. Three strains (Gra

PEG 1, Gra PEG 2, and Ko PEG 2) of rod-shaped, gram-negative,

nonsporeforming, strictly anaerobic bacteria were isolated in mineral

medium with PEG as the sole source of carbon and energy. All strains

degraded dimers, oligomers, and polymers of PEG up to a molecular

weight of 20,000 completely by fermentation to nearly equal amounts of

acetate and ethanol. The monomer ethylene glycol was not degraded. An

ethylene glycol-fermenting anaerobe (strain Gra EG 12) isolated from

the same enrichments was identified as Acetobacterium woodii. The

PEG-fermenting strains did not excrete extracellular depolymerizing

enzymes and were inhibited by ethylene glycol, probably owing to a

blocking of the cellular uptake system. PEG, some PEG-containing

nonionic detergents, 1,2-propanediol, 1,2-butanediol, glycerol, and

acetoin were the only growth substrates utilized of a broad variety of

sugars, organic acids, and alcohols. The isolates did not reduce

sulfate, sulfur, thiosulfate, or nitrate and were independent of

growth factors. In coculture with A. woodii or Methanospirillum

hungatei, PEGs and ethanol were completely fermented to acetate (and

methane). A marine isolate is described as the type strain of a new

species, Pelobacter venetianus sp. nov. Its physiology and ecological

significance, as well as the importance and possible mechanism of

anaerobic polyether degradation, are discussed.

PMID: 6881964 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

----------------------------------------------------------

Appl Microbiol. 1975 May;29(5):621-5.

Microbial degradation of polyethylene glycols.

Haines JR, M.

Mono-, di-, tri-, and tetraethylene glycols and polyethylene glycols

(PEG) with molecular weight up to 20,000 were degraded by soil

microorganisms. A strain of Pseudomonas aeruginosa able to use a PEG

of average molecular weight 20,000 was isolated from soil. Washed

cells oxidized mono- and tetraethylene glycols, but O2 consumption was

not detectable when such cells were incubated for short periods with

PEG 20,000. However, the bacteria excreted an enzyme which converted

low- and high-molecular-weight PEG to a product utilized by washed

P.aeruginosa cells. Gas chromatography of the supernatant of a culture

grown on PEG 20,000 revealed the presence of a compound

co-chromatographing with diethylene glycol. A metabolite formed from

PEG 20,000 by the extracellular enzyme preparation was identified as

ethylene glycol by combined gas chromatography-mass spectrometry.

PMID: 807161 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

*This article mentions that a number of bacteria were found that could

use PEG 20,000 as their sole carbon source but that the p. aeruginosa

strain was chosen for further characterization.

> Ok -- this requires a little stretching, but follow this

please. They

> found that miralax DOES degrade with certain bacteria.

>

> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?

> artid=239286 & pageindex=1

> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?

> artid=239126 & pageindex=1#page

>

> in fact if you search pubmed you'll find more when you use the keywords

> PEG and sludge -- yes the tests were with sewage sludge. As I read

> the test results, it says that PEG was degraded into acetate and other

> byproducts, but their conclusion was that it was " safe " . Hmmm

>

> If I had a child with abnormal bactria like clostridia in their GI

> tract, I would run from PEG as fast as I could.

>

[Guest guest]

Meant to also mention that Owens at the Trying Low Oxalates

group had mentioned to me that she suggested this mechanism here at

this group a while back. She has recently reposted some of her

findings at the oxalates group message board - I have not had the time

yet to thoroughly read that information, but hope to get back into

this topic after the holidays.

> > Ok -- this requires a little stretching, but follow this

> please. They

> > found that miralax DOES degrade with certain bacteria.

> >

> > http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?

> > artid=239286 & pageindex=1

> > http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?

> > artid=239126 & pageindex=1#page

> >

> > in fact if you search pubmed you'll find more when you use the

keywords

> > PEG and sludge -- yes the tests were with sewage sludge. As I read

> > the test results, it says that PEG was degraded into acetate and

other

> > byproducts, but their conclusion was that it was " safe " . Hmmm

> >

> > If I had a child with abnormal bactria like clostridia in their GI

> > tract, I would run from PEG as fast as I could.

> >

>