Re: pain/bloating with Magnesium?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,I know this will seem counterintuitive, but I wonder if your son is getting all that bloating from having so much fiber in his diet. My almost-four-year-old has a similar problem (started when she began solid foods). We knew she MUST be getting much more than the recommended amount of fiber, because she was mostly eating off my plate, and since I'm a vegan, that was mostly stuff like brown rice and steamed broccoli. She would frequently eat all of the broccoli off my plate (won't do that anymore, I'm sorry to say!). When she began getting constipated, of course I went crazy adding ground flax seeds to muffins, stewing and pureeing prunes for her, etc., etc. She was very constipated and was getting stomach aches too, to the point that it was really interfering with her quality of life daily. I finally tried reducing her fiber, at about the same time that I also started giving her papaya enzymes (we get them from GNC and for a while I gave them to her with every meal -- now I give them to her just once a day). She still gets bloated to some degree, but she doesn't get tummyaches anymore. I really credit reducing the fiber with ending her tummy aches. For us, one big switch was from Ezekiel bread to white bread (I bake it myself with unbleached, unbromated flour). She used to get a tummyache about an hour after eating (when she was having very high fiber meals) and now doesn't get them at all. In fact, she doesn't seem to need to enzymes anymore either. Re fiber, I found the website www.helpforibs.com to be very helpful when I was first trying to sort this out. One way to tell whether fiber is helpful or harmful, I think (and I'm not a doctor of anything), is to consider the nature of the stool that's coming out. If you're looking at rabbit pellets, then I think fiber is probably indicated. If you're looking at a large, bulky, elephant-sized stool, I don't see the point of fiber. Fiber is supposed to bulk up the stool so the muscle of the intestines responds by grabbing it and pushing it along. If bulk is already present...adding fiber just adds more bulk and can slow down bowel movements even more. If you do look at the www.helpforibs.com website, you'll find a long discussion of the merits of soluble versus insoluble fiber. I'm not sure if my remarks above apply to soluble fiber. I am fairly sure that they apply, though, to insoluble fiber. It's great that you're doing probiotics; that really helps. Sometimes a change in probiotic can be helpful -- they're not all equally effective. We have changed several times...and it's great that he'll take fish oil too. People on this list say that it really helps, and our doctor would like my DD to take it too...but we're still in search of a formulation that she'll willingly ingest. I also wanted to say that it's great that you're working so hard to avoid Miralax. My DD was on it for a year and, though it seemed to help at first, in the long run it definitely made things worse.

If you can afford it or your insurance covers it, a chiropractor might be very helpful. My DD used to have an adjustment once a week, and would always have a bowel movement the next day (even if the appointment was on a different day of the week than usual). We kept up this routine for several months just after she first went off Miralax, and it's the only thing that kept her off it in those days, as it was before I knew about this list, which has been so helpful...

I've been meaning to post to the list, by the way, to let everyone know that my DD is finally getting some results without use of mineral oil...we used to have to rely on mineral oil as an emergency intervention every so often. But she finally became willing to drink apple juice, which meant that I can now get her to have Kid's Calm (a magnesium citrate supplement) every day...and that really softens things up and gets things moving. Finally switched (speaking of probiotics) to VSL#3 as well (I added this a couple of days before starting the Kid's Calm, to head off any possible oxalate dumping problems), and she hasn't complained of any burning poops since then. Incidentally, I think the Kid's Calm makes her less irritable as well (I like that kind of side effect!). Good luck,Bonnie

My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about 3 days

and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because he

finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a liquid

MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground flax

seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of fruits (including

prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink pear

juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber wafers

(inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't drink

cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium supplements – and

I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also intake

a proper amount of calcium….?).

[Guest guest]

I have had really good results using Kirkman's Magnesium Citrate powder with my son who was constipated from birth. We first used a ped GI who started us on Miralax and my son had a TON of bloating and discomfort. Our Dan got him onto the mag citrate and off of Miralax and he has since recovered from the ill effects (including worsening of behavior and focus and oxalate problems) of the Miralax. I highly recommend you give the magnesium a good chance. Have you done a cleanout with him yet? That initial diarhea can be leakage around harder stools that are plugging him up, which will also lead to bloating. That was the case with my son, and unfort we had to use 5 days of enemas and high doses of mag citrate to clean him out, then we were able to back off on the Mag citrate. Incidentally, I just started magnesium malate with my daughter because she cannot tolerate the

citrate (makes her hyper). She was constipating from the diet restrictions we have had to implement for oxalate and other sensitivities. She is responding well, so I think different forms of magnesium can be effective. Hang in there! littlelief wrote: Hi all,THANK YOU all for sharing information and experiences. My oldest son(almost 3 years old) has severe constipation, intentional withholdingof stools, and likely a

distended bowel at this point. Our pediatrician recommended Miralax. I poked around on the internetand immediately developed an aversion to the idea of using it. Ichose to try magnesium first. The pediatrician was supportive of myconcerns with a synthetic chemical and has helped work out a dose ofMilk of Magnesia that has started things 'flowing'. My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about 3 daysand no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because hefinally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a liquidMOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground flaxseeds, "Ezekial-style" whole grain breads, lots of fruits (includingprunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink pearjuice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber wafers(inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't drinkcow's milk or eat much dairy

– so he needs calcium supplements – andI've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also intakea proper amount of calcium….?).However, my son is still expressing severe distress when the "urge"strikes and does the "poopie dance" off and on for half a day beforefinally succumbing to the bowel movement. He tells us he's hurting(which I've always interpreted as mostly meaning that he has the urgeto go and psychologically he's sure it's going to hurt) and he hasexcessive flatulance. I feel like a great deal of his pain is due tohis psychological issues with previously painful bms and the fact thathe wants to control the bm and keep it in. The pediatrician suggested that the "pain" and bloating are related tothe magnesium and that if we went with Miralax he wouldn't experiencethese. My husband really wants to try the Miralax, but I reallycannot stomach (no pun intended) the idea. Every fiber (again,

nopun...) of my body tells me NOT to give this to my son. I have read that kids on this type of laxative program (be itmagnesium, PEG, or other) all have bloating, irritability, anddiscomfort for several weeks. I'd like to stick to the magnesium(plus other dietary modifications) and see if the pain and gas becomeless severe but I need support for my position when discussing with myhusband who wants to try the Miralax. Please share with me any info and/or experiences that may convince himthat Miralax is no `gentler' nor `safer' than magnesium. (He alsoworries about magnesium poisoning, but MOM has been used long term atrelatively high doses in children for so many years now that it seemshard to believe that an otherwise healthy child will get Mg poisoningfrom the amount used in this way – any thoughts?) Also, it seems like most people here prefer OxyPowder or the othermagnesium product (from Kirkman

labs?) to Milk of Magnesia. Is therea previous post or file that gives recommended doses for these products? I'm sorry for such a long post – I'm desperate to avoid Miralax andneed any and all information to support this position.THANK YOU again to all who have shared with this group – theinformation I've already read in previous posts has been invaluable. Sincerely,

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the informative responses - I am already feeling more hopeful and

truly

appreciate this board. So many of your helpful comments ring true and give me

" aha "

moments that I finally feel like this issue is resolvable if I can just get the

right

combination of treatment.

If I could impose on you all again, I have a few more questions/concerns.

As a preface, he has been 'cleaned out' I believe. Within about 4 days of

starting the MOM

he had an all out blow out - we were all so relieved that everything (and I mean

everything!

hard, soft, in between) just finally exploded right out of his body. Since that

day, he had

1-3 soft, very liquidy movements for about 3 days, skipped 3 days (this was the

transition

to the liquid MOM in which he missed one dose), and finally began again today

with 2

smushy movements. Could he have already built up another impaction in 3 days

and should I look for him to clean out again'?

Also, most of these soft, more liquidy bms are very grainy/sandy and he always

says he's

hurting. I assumed that the 'hurting' is primarily a psychological fear of the

pain he had

experienced passing large, hard stools when the constipation first began. Our

pediatrician

seemed to feel that it was this plus pain from the magnesium (hence my first

post). I have

never seen a toddler's bm while on laxative, so don't know that grainy/sandy

might

indicate some thing besides just a runny poop...?

Additionally, he (who has always been a good listener, generally well-behaved,

and able to

focus on any task for impressive amounts of time for an almost 3 year old) has

been antsy,

anxious, unfocused, defiant, and simply appears to not be listening to anything

I say. I

assumed that all this was simply from fighting to hold the bm in and being

constipated/uncomfortable, and perhaps a new 'phase' as he nears the 3 year

mark.

Now I feel terrible that he might have physical pain that is not simply the

'urge' to have a

bm tainted by his recollection of painful bms. Perhaps it is real physical pain

that is

persisting because of possible oxalate dumping? And the

antsy/irritable/unfocused -

could that be an oxalate issue?

I could not find much of a description of the bowel symptoms associated with

oxalate

issues, can anyone point me in the direction of more info. (btw, I gather that

oxalate is a

big problem for children with autism. My son has never been diagnosed with

autism, but I

assume it is still possible to be affect by the oxalate?)

Again, I cannot say THANK YOU enough - this board is just a wonderful resource

for a

lost, frustrated, and tired mom who just wants to understand what her toddler's

going

through and fix it in the most natural way possible.

Sincerely,

p.s. - Bonnie - thank you for so much information! Re: fish oils, we use the

Carlson's

childrens' chewables (http://www.carlsonlabs.com/product_detail.phtml?

prodid=7f522795 & categid=0014 & PHPSESSID=09e40a4f89f1119df5f629bdcff5dbf2 - we

bought them at Whole Foods). They are a bit expensive, but he asks for it every

day so

we're glad it's getting into him despite the price. The instructions and the

company say

not for children under 4 but our pediatrician said it should be fine and that

recommendation was likely just because it could be a choking hazard. We spent

time

teaching him to put it in his back teeth, close his mouth and chew, chew, chew.

(the first

few times he dribbled it all out onto his chin and shirt, but after 3 or 4

times, he's gotten it

down. ) We always watch him eat it and make sure it's chewed and swallowed. Dr.

Sears

also has a children's fish oil:

http://www.drsearsfamilyapproved.com/shopexd.asp?

id=17 & bc=no - but we've never tried this one. Costs about the same, but serving

size is

5 soft-gels whereas Carlson's is 1 gel, but has slightly less EPA and DHA than 5

Dr. Sears.

Where do you get the Kids Calm and the VSL#3?

> >

> > My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about 3 days

> > and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because he

> > finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a liquid

> > MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground flax

> > seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of fruits (including

> > prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink pear

> > juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber wafers

> > (inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't drink

> > cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium supplements – and

> > I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also intake

> > a proper amount of calcium….?).

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Bonnie

I'm so glad to hear that your DD is doing better. You landed on the

same final solution as I did for my DS -- mag citrate and VSl#3

mainly. An update on my DS too. I had him GFCF for 6 months with

rare infractions allowed with Kirkmans DPP_IV enzymes. 2 weeks ago I

allowed several wheat infractions without enzymes (on vacation).

Can't say there was much change with a slight constipation - after

all we were on vacation, but the main symptom was the rash. Minor

red on cheek, mainly bumpy skin everywhere else. Lesson learned for

me. We will stay GFCF with enzymes for at least another 6 months

(maybe forever).

For those who are just beginning their research -- to heal the gut

you need have the intestinal villi heal. Gluten and casein

sensitivity can flatten the villi. Sometimes with no exposure,

probiotics and cod liver oil you will heal the intestines. Sometimes

you can reintroduce " forbidden " foods, but other times you can't.

I don't know if I believe that the wheat and dairy intolerance was a

cause or an effect. But the end result in our household is that we

are going to try to be as close to 100% GFCF as possible.

LeeAnn

BTW - I just uploaded a lunch choices doc for GFCF school lunch ideas

followed a similar path

> >

> > My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about

3 days

> > and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because he

> > finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a

liquid

> > MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground

flax

> > seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of fruits

(including

> > prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink pear

> > juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber

wafers

> > (inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't

drink

> > cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium supplements –

and

> > I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also

intake

> > a proper amount of calcium….?).

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Bloating can occur with miralax, too--don't let the doc tell you

otherwise. Just ask Jeanne on this board about her dd's very bloated

tummy! The pain is probably coming from some of the peristaltic

movements of the gi tract trying to move out some hard stool. It

would occur with miralax too, or anything else that you were getting

started out on... ANYTHING that is stimulating some movement of old

hard stool through the gi tract is going to cause discomfort.

Magnesium is something needed by the body...if one were deficient in

magnesium, one of the earlier signs would be, constipation. You

could rhetorically ask your husband, what chance is there that our

son is deficient in polyethylene glycol?? Then would he still make

it his first line of choice? :-)

I would maybe cut out the flax seeds for a while and see if his

stools will firm up. What you want to see is not the liquidy stool,

but rather, a soft, log shaped, bm. When the body gets that shape

going, then they are more easily eliminated than the liquidy kind.

I would then also set up a regular " sit time " . People need to do

this regardless of whether they are using natural methods, or

miralax. Having a regular " sit time " after meals until you figure

out what is their normal elimination time of day (is it after lunch?

is it after dinner?) will help the child establish a regular bowel

habit pattern. You don't need to put any pressure on them to produce

a movement...just let them know that it's to help train their body to

relax so they can go, and if something comes out, great, if not, no

big deal. It will take several weeks but you should see a pattern

emerge. Then, your job is to just make sure your child does the sit-

time every day at that time. For our oldest son, it was an after

dinner sit, and then gradually we moved it to a before-bath sit. He

was more regular than I was, in a very short time! For my daughter,

her time is either mid-afternoon, or sometime after dinner.

We spent years telling my son " time to go sit a spell " ... that's OK!

In time, the child's body WILL recognize it's own urge to go and

they'll take care of business...but for whatever reason, these kids

can benefit from having the pattern established, and having the adult

remind them that it's time to go sit. Again, no expectation of

producing a movement--they dont' need that kind of performance

pressure... but just that " time to go sit a spell " , reassurance if

nothing happens, and compliments when they do have a bm.

RE: magnesium poisoning...at the doses in the MOM, your child would

not experience magnesium toxicity. There is info online, I think I

might have even put a link in the Files section, for magnesium

guidelines for adults and children. It is also important to remember

that the type of magnesium in MOM is not a highly absorbed type of

magnesium... there are other forms of magnesium that are

more 'potent' i.e. more utilized and absorbed by the body.

My 6 year old dd gets one Oxypowder capsule every other day, and that

seems to work for her. We were doing one capsule every day but it

was making her stool too soft, and then she would go several days

without passing a stool. With the every other day for her, she is

able to have a bm every other day that looks normal, not too soft.

But each child is different. She swallows the capsules so that makes

it easier to give.

The thing about miralax is, there will be lots of kids who don't seem

any different once taking it...but there are those that develop

personality changes, tics, motor disturbances, and seem to be unable

to recognize when to go, complain that the stool is coming out " hot "

and burning them... it took a long time for my son to heal and get it

all out of him, and so that's why I think that miralax shouldn't be

the first resort, it should be a last resort, and then, used more in

accordance with the label. The label still says to use only for a

few weeks...it isn't approved for children... they do absorb a small

amount through the colon, and it does require the kidneys to process

it out. For a small child, taking it every day, at adult doses, for

months and years on end, what is it doing to them (even if they

aren't one of the ones having the obvious physical/neurological

changes) ??

W

>

> Hi all,

>

> THANK YOU all for sharing information and experiences. My oldest

son

> (almost 3 years old) has severe constipation, intentional

withholding

> of stools, and likely a distended bowel at this point.

>

> Our pediatrician recommended Miralax. I poked around on the

internet

> and immediately developed an aversion to the idea of using it. I

> chose to try magnesium first. The pediatrician was supportive of my

> concerns with a synthetic chemical and has helped work out a dose of

> Milk of Magnesia that has started things 'flowing'.

>

> My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about 3

days

> and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because he

> finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a

liquid

> MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground flax

> seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of fruits (including

> prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink pear

> juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber

wafers

> (inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't

drink

> cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium supplements – and

> I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also

intake

> a proper amount of calcium….?).

>

> However, my son is still expressing severe distress when the " urge "

> strikes and does the " poopie dance " off and on for half a day before

> finally succumbing to the bowel movement. He tells us he's hurting

> (which I've always interpreted as mostly meaning that he has the

urge

> to go and psychologically he's sure it's going to hurt) and he has

> excessive flatulance. I feel like a great deal of his pain is due to

> his psychological issues with previously painful bms and the fact

that

> he wants to control the bm and keep it in.

>

> The pediatrician suggested that the " pain " and bloating are related

to

> the magnesium and that if we went with Miralax he wouldn't

experience

> these. My husband really wants to try the Miralax, but I really

> cannot stomach (no pun intended) the idea. Every fiber (again, no

> pun...) of my body tells me NOT to give this to my son.

>

> I have read that kids on this type of laxative program (be it

> magnesium, PEG, or other) all have bloating, irritability, and

> discomfort for several weeks. I'd like to stick to the magnesium

> (plus other dietary modifications) and see if the pain and gas

become

> less severe but I need support for my position when discussing with

my

> husband who wants to try the Miralax.

>

> Please share with me any info and/or experiences that may convince

him

> that Miralax is no `gentler' nor `safer' than magnesium. (He also

> worries about magnesium poisoning, but MOM has been used long term

at

> relatively high doses in children for so many years now that it

seems

> hard to believe that an otherwise healthy child will get Mg

poisoning

> from the amount used in this way – any thoughts?)

>

> Also, it seems like most people here prefer OxyPowder or the other

> magnesium product (from Kirkman labs?) to Milk of Magnesia. Is

there

> a previous post or file that gives recommended doses for these

products?

>

> I'm sorry for such a long post – I'm desperate to avoid Miralax and

> need any and all information to support this position.

>

> THANK YOU again to all who have shared with this group – the

> information I've already read in previous posts has been

invaluable.

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oops -- forgot a few things -- here's a complete current supplement

list:

Vital Earth Fulvic mineral complex (1 T/day)

Gamma E complex- 400mg

Jarrow NeuroOptimzer (2 week pulses) 3 -4 per day (empty stomach makes

this difficult)

Daily customized homeopathic drops

> GFCF diet with Kirkman DPP-IV enzymes. Most carbs from fruit.

> Mag citrate capsules -- approx 400mg per day. Cal-mag at times --

still

> experimenting. Since he swallows pills now we no longer use KidCalm

> VSL#3 - avg 1/2 package per day

> Phosphatidyl Choline 700mg

> Liver Support (eclectic institute) 1 per day

> CLO - Carlson or Green Pastures - 2/day in summer, 4/day on cloudy

days

> (we live in Wa state where it's cloudy 3/4 of year)

> NN Ultimate Omega 2 per day

> NSI MitoCHpower 1/day (very high b's)

> Source Naturals Yaeyama Chlorella (8 per day am/pm)

> Source Naturals Pepperment melatonin (2mg many evenings)

>

> Epsom salt with baking soda baths - several per week

>

>

> Constipation is not a problem anymore - but if he is more than 1 1/2

> days I add 1 or 2 capsules Kidlax (Renew Life)

> > > > >

> > > > > My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for

about

> > > 3 days

> > > > > and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because

> he

> > > > > finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a

> > > liquid

> > > > > MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground

> > > flax

> > > > > seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of fruits

> > > (including

> > > > > prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink

> pear

> > > > > juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber

> > > wafers

> > > > > (inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he

doesn't

> > > drink

> > > > > cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium

> supplements –

> > > and

> > > > > I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also

> > > intake

> > > > > a proper amount of calcium….?).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yep - that's exactly the reason. I grew up drinking hard well

water -- and not only has no one in my family (6) had a broken bone

(ece[t me - I did last year at 46), I can recall that only " city

kids " ever had casts. We farm kids -- who had well water with a ton

of minerals in it -- it was really rare to have a bone break. As I

compare the parents -- osteoperosis hadn't hit the women (in their

60s, 70s, and 80s) who drank well water either.

So, I add this to my kids and my juice every few days. There is

also a school of thought that a mineral deficient body will retain

toxic heavy metals -- but a body that has healthy mineral levels

will release them readily.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day

for

> > about

> > > > > 3 days

> > > > > > > and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM

because

> > > he

> > > > > > > finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to

go get a

> > > > > liquid

> > > > > > > MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give

him ground

> > > > > flax

> > > > > > > seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of

fruits

> > > > > (including

> > > > > > > prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him

to drink

> > > pear

> > > > > > > juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics

(Jarrow), fiber

> > > > > wafers

> > > > > > > (inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium

(he

> > doesn't

> > > > > drink

> > > > > > > cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium

> > > supplements –

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need

to also

> > > > > intake

> > > > > > > a proper amount of calcium….?).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi - Upon the good success from many of you on here, we've gone to the Mag Citrate from Kirkman Labs. We've cut the Miralax and Bisacodyl, using only supplements (B6, aloe vera, magnesium and primadolphius) but we've had limited success with the bowel movements in the toilet. Our ds goes a lot in his pants (he's 9 y.o.), which is a real social stigma (duh!). So, hopefully the mag citrate will clean him out enough to get him going in the toilet. Does anyone have any recommendations on how much to start him with? The bottle says 1/2 t. Should we go twice a day for a while? We're going to be traveling (in the car) next week for a week, so that'll make a difference, too. Thanks!!!!

~ Tracie

From: miralax [mailto:miralax ] On Behalf Of VickersSent: Friday, August 10, 2007 8:38 AMTo: miralax Subject: Re: pain/bloating with Magnesium?

I have had really good results using Kirkman's Magnesium Citrate powder with my son who was constipated from birth. We first used a ped GI who started us on Miralax and my son had a TON of bloating and discomfort. Our Dan got him onto the mag citrate and off of Miralax and he has since recovered from the ill effects (including worsening of behavior and focus and oxalate problems) of the Miralax. I highly recommend you give the magnesium a good chance.

Have you done a cleanout with him yet? That initial diarhea can be leakage around harder stools that are plugging him up, which will also lead to bloating. That was the case with my son, and unfort we had to use 5 days of enemas and high doses of mag citrate to clean him out, then we were able to back off on the Mag citrate.

Incidentally, I just started magnesium malate with my daughter because she cannot tolerate the citrate (makes her hyper). She was constipating from the diet restrictions we have had to implement for oxalate and other sensitivities. She is responding well, so I think different forms of magnesium can be effective.

Hang in there!

littlelief <littleliefhotmail> wrote:

Hi all,THANK YOU all for sharing information and experiences. My oldest son(almost 3 years old) has severe constipation, intentional withholdingof stools, and likely a distended bowel at this point. Our pediatrician recommended Miralax. I poked around on the internetand immediately developed an aversion to the idea of using it. Ichose to try magnesium first. The pediatrician was supportive of myconcerns with a synthetic chemical and has helped work out a dose ofMilk of Magnesia that has started things 'flowing'. My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about 3 daysand no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because hefinally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a liquidMOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground flaxseeds, "Ezekial-style" whole grain breads, lots of fruits (includingprunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink pearjuice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber wafers(inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't drinkcow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium supplements – andI've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also intakea proper amount of calcium….?).However, my son is still expressing severe distress when the "urge"strikes and does the "poopie dance" off and on for half a day beforefinally succumbing to the bowel movement. He tells us he's hurting(which I've always interpreted as mostly meaning that he has the urgeto go and psychologically he's sure it's going to hurt) and he hasexcessive flatulance. I feel like a great deal of his pain is due tohis psychological issues with previously painful bms and the fact thathe wants to control the bm and keep it in. The pediatrician suggested that the "pain" and bloating are related tothe magnesium and that if we went with Miralax he wouldn't experiencethese. My husband really wants to try the Miralax, but I reallycannot stomach (no pun intended) the idea. Every fiber (again, nopun...) of my body tells me NOT to give this to my son. I have read that kids on this type of laxative program (be itmagnesium, PEG, or other) all have bloating, irritability, anddiscomfort for several weeks. I'd like to stick to the magnesium(plus other dietary modifications) and see if the pain and gas becomeless severe but I need support for my position when discussing with myhusband who wants to try the Miralax. Please share with me any info and/or experiences that may convince himthat Miralax is no `gentler' nor `safer' than magnesium. (He alsoworries about magnesium poisoning, but MOM has been used long term atrelatively high doses in children for so many years now that it seemshard to believe that an otherwise healthy child will get Mg poisoningfrom the amount used in this way – any thoughts?) Also, it seems like most people here prefer OxyPowder or the othermagnesium product (from Kirkman labs?) to Milk of Magnesia. Is therea previous post or file that gives recommended doses for these products? I'm sorry for such a long post – I'm desperate to avoid Miralax andneed any and all information to support this position.THANK YOU again to all who have shared with this group – theinformation I've already read in previous posts has been invaluable. Sincerely,

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Guest guest]

A couple of thoughts.

The Kirkman magnesium citrate is in powder form. Nothing wrong with

that -- but if your 9 year old can swallow capsules you'll simplify

things for yourself. Lots of good brands for capsules available --

post if you need some help on that.

For a short period of time as his body is adjusting, you might want

to consider adding a little extra help -- like senna tee, Kidlax,

etc. Magnesium can be a daily supplement for life, but you want to

try to limit senna usage after a month or so.

For a 9 year old with chronic constipation, you could go fairly high

with the magnesium -- several capsules of Oxypowder or equivalent.

Start at 250 mg per day and increase every other day until you get

loose stools -- then back off to the previous dosage. For example

250mg day 1-2, then 500mg day 3-4, 750 mg day 5-6, 1000 mg day 7-8,

1250 mg day 9-10 -- achieved loose stools, back down to 1000 mg day

and keep there for one - two weeks. Your goal is to try to go to

500mg (about) and remain there. If anything longer than 2 days,

either increase magnesium or add kidlax or similar.

This is assuming that there are no other issues -- kidney, seizures,

etc.

>

> Hi all,

>

> THANK YOU all for sharing information and experiences. My oldest

son

> (almost 3 years old) has severe constipation, intentional

withholding

> of stools, and likely a distended bowel at this point.

>

> Our pediatrician recommended Miralax. I poked around on the

internet

> and immediately developed an aversion to the idea of using it. I

> chose to try magnesium first. The pediatrician was supportive of my

> concerns with a synthetic chemical and has helped work out a dose

of

> Milk of Magnesia that has started things 'flowing'.

>

> My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about 3

days

> and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because he

> finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a

liquid

> MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground flax

> seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of fruits

(including

> prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink pear

> juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber

wafers

> (inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't

drink

> cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium supplements –

and

> I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also

intake

> a proper amount of calcium….?).

>

> However, my son is still expressing severe distress when the " urge "

> strikes and does the " poopie dance " off and on for half a day

before

> finally succumbing to the bowel movement. He tells us he's hurting

> (which I've always interpreted as mostly meaning that he has the

urge

> to go and psychologically he's sure it's going to hurt) and he has

> excessive flatulance. I feel like a great deal of his pain is due

to

> his psychological issues with previously painful bms and the fact

that

> he wants to control the bm and keep it in.

>

> The pediatrician suggested that the " pain " and bloating are

related to

> the magnesium and that if we went with Miralax he wouldn't

experience

> these. My husband really wants to try the Miralax, but I really

> cannot stomach (no pun intended) the idea. Every fiber (again, no

> pun...) of my body tells me NOT to give this to my son.

>

> I have read that kids on this type of laxative program (be it

> magnesium, PEG, or other) all have bloating, irritability, and

> discomfort for several weeks. I'd like to stick to the magnesium

> (plus other dietary modifications) and see if the pain and gas

become

> less severe but I need support for my position when discussing

with my

> husband who wants to try the Miralax.

>

> Please share with me any info and/or experiences that may convince

him

> that Miralax is no `gentler' nor `safer' than magnesium. (He also

> worries about magnesium poisoning, but MOM has been used long term

at

> relatively high doses in children for so many years now that it

seems

> hard to believe that an otherwise healthy child will get Mg

poisoning

> from the amount used in this way – any thoughts?)

>

> Also, it seems like most people here prefer OxyPowder or the other

> magnesium product (from Kirkman labs?) to Milk of Magnesia. Is

there

> a previous post or file that gives recommended doses for these

products?

>

> I'm sorry for such a long post – I'm desperate to avoid Miralax and

> need any and all information to support this position.

>

> THANK YOU again to all who have shared with this group – the

> information I've already read in previous posts has been

invaluable.

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

> Play

>

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48223/*http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddes

c?gamek

> ey=monopolyherenow> Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for

today's economy)

> at Yahoo! Games.

>

[Guest guest]

That's my son as well -- a little bit of sensory and minor speech

delay. The magnesium worked wonders for him (5). I also eliminated

gluten and casein -- but that was actually after things were

regulated with magnesium. The nice thing about magnesium is that

it helps to retrain those GI muscles to the proper action --

peristolic (sp) instead of low tone. I would also recommend adding

cod liver oil -- capsules or liquid, Carlson's or Green Pastures.

Over a few months of use you will get a gradual healing of the GI

tract with it, IMO. DOn't worry about too much vit a or d -- long

term constipation leads to absorbtion issues, so most of our kids

have fat soluble vitamin levels that are too low. It takes a long

slow effort to bring those levels back.

Also -- while you are making this change, see if you can test his

(not 1st morning) urine PH. Add a 1/4 tsp baking soda if PH is low

(acidic), or add several cups to a bath.

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > THANK YOU all for sharing information and experiences. My oldest

> son

> > (almost 3 years old) has severe constipation, intentional

> withholding

> > of stools, and likely a distended bowel at this point.

> >

> > Our pediatrician recommended Miralax. I poked around on the

> internet

> > and immediately developed an aversion to the idea of using it. I

> > chose to try magnesium first. The pediatrician was supportive of

my

> > concerns with a synthetic chemical and has helped work out a

dose

> of

> > Milk of Magnesia that has started things 'flowing'.

> >

> > My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about

3

> days

> > and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because he

> > finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a

> liquid

> > MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground

flax

> > seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of fruits

> (including

> > prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink

pear

> > juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber

> wafers

> > (inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't

> drink

> > cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium supplements –

> and

> > I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also

> intake

> > a proper amount of calcium….?).

> >

> > However, my son is still expressing severe distress when

the " urge "

> > strikes and does the " poopie dance " off and on for half a day

> before

> > finally succumbing to the bowel movement. He tells us he's

hurting

> > (which I've always interpreted as mostly meaning that he has the

> urge

> > to go and psychologically he's sure it's going to hurt) and he

has

> > excessive flatulance. I feel like a great deal of his pain is

due

> to

> > his psychological issues with previously painful bms and the

fact

> that

> > he wants to control the bm and keep it in.

> >

> > The pediatrician suggested that the " pain " and bloating are

> related to

> > the magnesium and that if we went with Miralax he wouldn't

> experience

> > these. My husband really wants to try the Miralax, but I really

> > cannot stomach (no pun intended) the idea. Every fiber (again, no

> > pun...) of my body tells me NOT to give this to my son.

> >

> > I have read that kids on this type of laxative program (be it

> > magnesium, PEG, or other) all have bloating, irritability, and

> > discomfort for several weeks. I'd like to stick to the magnesium

> > (plus other dietary modifications) and see if the pain and gas

> become

> > less severe but I need support for my position when discussing

> with my

> > husband who wants to try the Miralax.

> >

> > Please share with me any info and/or experiences that may

convince

> him

> > that Miralax is no `gentler' nor `safer' than magnesium. (He also

> > worries about magnesium poisoning, but MOM has been used long

term

> at

> > relatively high doses in children for so many years now that it

> seems

> > hard to believe that an otherwise healthy child will get Mg

> poisoning

> > from the amount used in this way – any thoughts?)

> >

> > Also, it seems like most people here prefer OxyPowder or the

other

> > magnesium product (from Kirkman labs?) to Milk of Magnesia. Is

> there

> > a previous post or file that gives recommended doses for these

> products?

> >

> > I'm sorry for such a long post – I'm desperate to avoid Miralax

and

> > need any and all information to support this position.

> >

> > THANK YOU again to all who have shared with this group – the

> > information I've already read in previous posts has been

> invaluable.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

> > Play

> >

> <http://us.rd.

>

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48223/*http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddes

>

> yahoo.com/evt=48223/*http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddes

> c?gamek

> > ey=monopolyherenow> Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for

> today's economy)

> > at Yahoo! Games.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonnie,

I was just re-reading some of the posts to review all the great

advice/suggestions

everyone's been giving. As I reread this one, I wondered if when you did the

GFCF you

tried also eliminating soy? I've read that a great number of the kids who are

sensitive to

dairy are also sensitive to soy. This is probably why some people are told that

switching

to soy milk is 'just as constipating' as cow's milk. Anyway, my oldest (the

constipated one,

almost 3) was sensitive to dairy, soy, egg, and corn while i was breastfeeding

him. My 7

month old is as well. A friend has a very " colicky " breastfed baby who has

improved

dramatically after she eliminated dairy but was miserable again after she had a

dish with a

lot of teryaki (soy) sauce, so her baby is also apparently a cow's milk and soy

sensitive

one.

Sorry to ramble, just thought I'd put it out there in case it might be something

you could

try if you haven't already...??

BTW - my constipated son is improving on the magnesium, I've backed off the

fiber and it

has worked wonders for the gas/bloating - THANK you for that suggestion! I

still give the

inulin as it's a soluble fiber (that ibs site did have great info - thanks for

that too!). I need

to order the Kirkman labs Mag citrate I think. I didn't find the KidCalm but

got a different

kids' Magnesium citrate supplement and he won't touch the stuff (it's a gooey

liquid and

he won't take the spoonful but won't drink it mixed with water, juice or

anything! So we're

still doing the MOM but after reading so much about Magnesium citrate, i'd

prefer to give

that to him.

Have a nice weekend!

Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > My son's had one or two liquidy bowel movements a day for about

> > 3 days

> > > > and no bm yesterday (we did miss one day's dose of MOM because he

> > > > finally refused to take the mint tablets and I had to go get a

> > liquid

> > > > MOM which thankfully he seems to like). I also give him ground

> > flax

> > > > seeds, " Ezekial-style " whole grain breads, lots of fruits

> > (including

> > > > prunes which thankfully he loves), trying to get him to drink pear

> > > > juice (won't tolerate prune juice), probiotics (Jarrow), fiber

> > wafers

> > > > (inulin - 1 a day), fish oil supplement, and calcium (he doesn't

> > drink

> > > > cow's milk or eat much dairy – so he needs calcium supplements –

> > and

> > > > I've read that for magnesium to work properly you need to also

> > intake

> > > > a proper amount of calcium….?).

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>