Re: Re: Chlorophyll

[Guest guest]

What you are describing here sounds like food allergy. Have you considered

a rotational allergy elimination diet. Not sure how that works with prey

model feeding.

Prey animals can be sources of toxicity as well depending on how they

have been fed. Toxins can be in hair and feather as well as organs and

body tissues.

Just scratching my head here.

Garnet

a wrote:

> Wiley as licked/scratched/chewed all of the dense hair off of his

> feet, legs, and chest. He looks like a fuzzy bedroom slipper propped

> up on toothpicks! At one point he was clawing up his face and drawing

> blood. That has stopped but he's still scratching his face and

> shaking his head.

>

> I can't find any symptom that I think DMSO would help or I'd be using

> it. They have had EIS free-choice for months. All 3 dogs have the

> same of everything, so WHY is it only 2 of the 3???

>

> Any guesses, speculations, 'what-ifs' are most welcome. I've run out

> of ideas. I know this is OT, so direct mail is fine.

>

> a

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> List Home Page:

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO

>

> Books:

> DMSO Nature's Healer by Morton

> MSM The Definitive Guide by Stanely MD and Appleton, NDYahoo!

Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have you tried dusting them with borax? my dog bit and chewed himself

until there was no hair left on his hind quarters or tail. No fleas

(but this was many years ago before raw food diet info), the vet tried

everything, I bought all type of supplements, nothing helped him.

Then a dowser asked and got the answer that I should use 20 Mule Team

Borax on him. I was pretty skeptical, but gave it a try. I'd bath

him and then while he was still damp sprinkle the borax on his skin.

Almost immediately the itching decreased. Within 2 weeks he had

totally stopped biting his hair and scratching, and his hair started

growing back. It came in so thick and beautiful. He never had that

problem again. I've done it to the dogs I have now. I had gotten a

puppy and the oldest dog and the pup started the scratching and

itching and biting. No fleas, they were on raw food. I did 2

treatments of the borax and it stopped in both of them and has not

bothered them since. The pup is now 2. Someone told me the borax

kills mites and that's probably what my dogs had. Whatever--the vet

couldn't stop the itching with his meds.

Also, itching can sometimes be a thyroid reaction. You could

supplement with kelp and see if that helps. My old dog also had a big

bare patch of skin on his neck that the borax didn't seem to help.

Well, it stopped him from scratching there but the hair never grew

back. I got some red palm oil (you could also use virgin coconut oil)

and rubbed it in a few times and the hair grew back in. A man I met on

line told me about the palm oil/coconut oil and how it really helps

their coats when they have skin problems.

Hope you find relief for your dogs. I know how frustrating it can be.

samala,

>

>

> Any guesses, speculations, 'what-ifs' are most welcome. I've run out

> of ideas. I know this is OT, so direct mail is fine.

>

[Guest guest]

ph Votta wrote:

> Have you tried dusting them with borax?

Borax is a lung irritant. I will copy and paste the MSDS in a separate

email.

It's ok to use in the laundary as a rinse for pet bedding, and even use in

the bath water if you rinse so as not to upset the normal pH of the skin.

my dog bit and chewed himself

> until there was no hair left on his hind quarters or tail. No fleas

> (but this was many years ago before raw food diet info), the vet tried

> everything, I bought all type of supplements, nothing helped him.

> Then a dowser asked and got the answer that I should use 20 Mule Team

> Borax on him. I was pretty skeptical, but gave it a try. I'd bath

> him and then while he was still damp sprinkle the borax on his skin.

> Almost immediately the itching decreased. Within 2 weeks he had

> totally stopped biting his hair and scratching, and his hair started

> growing back. It came in so thick and beautiful. He never had that

> problem again. I've done it to the dogs I have now. I had gotten a

> puppy and the oldest dog and the pup started the scratching and

> itching and biting. No fleas, they were on raw food. I

Raw diets do not eliminate fleas. If you did not have them then it was not

the diet, it was the environment. This myth has been widely discussed on

raw feeding lists, and it is exactly that, a myth.

did 2

> treatments of the borax and it stopped in both of them and has not

> bothered them since. The pup is now 2. Someone told me the borax

> kills mites and that's probably what my dogs had. Whatever--the vet

> couldn't stop the itching with his meds.

Mites are an arthropod, like spiders, not an insect so common insecticides

do not kill mites. Generally vets resort to Amitrz or Ivermectin. Both are

toxic, the latter in MDR1 mutated dog breeds like Aussies and Collies.

Some people swear by coating the skin with oil to suffocate the mites.

I have not had to deal with mites in a very long time so can't really tell

you any direct personal experiences other than I have used Ivermectin

in non-MDR1 mutated breeds, orally, to treat Demodectic Mites. It can kill

an MDR1 sensitive dog though so check out your breed first, and if it is

a mixed breed don''t take the chance if you are not 100%sure of parentage.

>

> Also, itching can sometimes be a thyroid reaction. You could

> supplement with kelp and see if that helps.

Thyroid deficiency can manifest in atypical ways, for instance a dog can

actually be thin instead of fat. Magnesium dificiency can cause low Thyroid

function which affects everything inthe body since it is a master gland and

controls metabolism as well as immunity. Could be implicated in

allergies but

the systems are complex and the logic of it all is not straight forward.

Itching can also be a skin fungus which can result when a dog is

allergic to

food items due to the edema and swelling. Feet are a common starting point

for such reactions as well as ears.

My old dog also had a big

> bare patch of skin on his neck that the borax didn't seem to help.

> Well, it stopped him from scratching there but the hair never grew

> back. I got some red palm oil (you could also use virgin coconut oil)

> and rubbed it in a few times and the hair grew back in. A man I met on

> line told me about the palm oil/coconut oil and how it really helps

> their coats when they have skin problems.

>

> Hope you find relief for your dogs. I know how frustrating it can be.

>

> samala,

>

>

>

>>

>> Any guesses, speculations, 'what-ifs' are most welcome. I've run out

>> of ideas. I know this is OT, so direct mail is fine.

>>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> List Home Page:

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO

>

> Books:

> DMSO Nature's Healer by Morton

> MSM The Definitive Guide by Stanely MD and Appleton, NDYahoo!

Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have no idea if it was mites or not. All I know is that the vet

couldn't help him and after the borax someone told me that mites can

make a dog itch like that. I would have thought the vet would have

checked for that, but it has been so long ago that I can not remember.

All I know is what happened after using the borax, both the first time

for my english setter, and 2 years ago for my mixed breed pup and my

older dog.

I know the raw food/flea myth is just that. Still, I also know that

raw certainly helps with skin problems due to commercial dog food.

But as I said, my first experience with borax was because the problem

was not due to fleas, nor food, nor allergies. Vet couldn't find a

solution, health food stores didn't help. The only thing that did was

the 20 Mule Team.

I would not hesitate to use it again.

>

Borax is a lung irritant. I will copy and paste the MSDS in a separate

> email.

>

> Raw diets do not eliminate fleas. If you did not have them then it was not

> the diet, it was the environment. This myth has been widely discussed on

> raw feeding lists, and it is exactly that, a myth.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mites can be hard to detect in a skin scraping, especially

demodectic. Sarcoptic are easier to detect and treat. Often

with demodectic there is a flare if immunity is suppressed

as it is at about 8 months or any time there is stress. Some

dogs are more susceptible to both kinds. Not all clinical

pictures point to mites even though it could be.

Stress can also cause thyroid function to dip, called sick

euthyroid, it is not treated with Thyroid hormones because it

is considered temporary. Stress can be an issue with dogs

and go undetected. If owners are stressed or moving, if

something changes in their environment or noise is a factor

as in construction for instance...

Allergies can be seasonal and total load may determine if

you see a reaction or the individual just feels " off " . Total

Load includes all exposures and can be synergistic. That is

one exposure may potentiate another so that 2 + 2 = 22

not 4.

I don't blame you for keeping up anything that has worked.

Just be careful when dusting Borax. Pet's lungs may withstand

an application but not a subsequent exposure that impacts

the same organ. I am cautious about saying there was no

bad reactions when it can be difficult to truly assess.

My pharmacology background and personal experiences with

sick buildings, MCS and five years of my life lost to a series

of toxic exposures taught me to be aware of small exposures

that can add up or affect a sensitive individual.

Garnet

ph Votta wrote:

> I have no idea if it was mites or not. All I know is that the vet

> couldn't help him and after the borax someone told me that mites can

> make a dog itch like that. I would have thought the vet would have

> checked for that, but it has been so long ago that I can not remember.

>

> All I know is what happened after using the borax, both the first time

> for my english setter, and 2 years ago for my mixed breed pup and my

> older dog.

>

> I know the raw food/flea myth is just that. Still, I also know that

> raw certainly helps with skin problems due to commercial dog food.

> But as I said, my first experience with borax was because the problem

> was not due to fleas, nor food, nor allergies. Vet couldn't find a

> solution, health food stores didn't help. The only thing that did was

> the 20 Mule Team.

>

> I would not hesitate to use it again.

>

>

> Borax is a lung irritant. I will copy and paste the MSDS in a separate

>> email.

>>

>

>> Raw diets do not eliminate fleas. If you did not have them then it was not

>> the diet, it was the environment. This myth has been widely discussed on

>> raw feeding lists, and it is exactly that, a myth.

>>

>>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> List Home Page:

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO

>

> Books:

> DMSO Nature's Healer by Morton

> MSM The Definitive Guide by Stanely MD and Appleton, NDYahoo!

Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry a. Just <www.dinovite.com> Jim

--- a wrote:

> Jim,

> Yes, the dogs are totally raw-fed and have been for

> 8 years. I feed

> prey-model (not BARF or SARF) so there are no

> grains, veg, or fruits.

> Well, except for a random treat from someone else

> and minor plate-

> licking. DinoVit sounds like a supplement. I haven't

> researched it

> but I will. You didn't give a source.

>

> Garnet,

> There is no bad breath. If there is anything wrong

> with their ears,

> it must be way down in the canal. The ears appear

> clean, don't smell,

> and if I swab them out with a tissue, there is

> almost no gunk.

> I know it only takes one flea to cause a reaction

> in some dogs but I

> have not found any flea evidence. I even check their

> beds with clear

> shipping tape to check for flea poop or eggs and

> have found nothing.

> I've eliminated seasonal allergies because it's

> gone on through 3

> (maybe 4) seasons. I've lost track of time but the

> problem has

> existed for 8-12 months.

>

> January 1 they finished a 3-month treatment with

> EnzymesPro+. I'm

> sure that didn't hurt them and it may have helped

> but there has been

> no noticeable improvement. All pets are 'altered' so

> there are no

> heat cycles involved.

>

> I have some Therapeutic Living Clay on order. When

> it arrives, I'll

> begin an internal detox and see if that does

> anything. I'll also soak

> the bottom half of the worst dog (Wiley) in a clay

> bath - if he'll

> tolerate it. Maybe if I don't get his back wet,

> he'll cooperate.

> Wiley as licked/scratched/chewed all of the dense

> hair off of his

> feet, legs, and chest. He looks like a fuzzy bedroom

> slipper propped

> up on toothpicks! At one point he was clawing up his

> face and drawing

> blood. That has stopped but he's still scratching

> his face and

> shaking his head.

>

> I can't find any symptom that I think DMSO would

> help or I'd be using

> it. They have had EIS free-choice for months. All 3

> dogs have the

> same of everything, so WHY is it only 2 of the 3???

>

> Any guesses, speculations, 'what-ifs' are most

> welcome. I've run out

> of ideas. I know this is OT, so direct mail is fine.

>

> a

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

Has your vet taken a skin sample from the dog that has chewed and scratched the

fur? It is possible that they have demodectic mites. It is a lot more common in

puppies and young dogs that have a compromised immune system, but it could be

worth checking into, since you have found no relief with what has been tried.

These can cause a foul odor also.

As far as 2 out of 3, maybe the 3rd one is just lucky... or his immune system is

dealing with whatever it is better than the other 2. Good luck finding the

problem! I know your guys must be miserable.

Gail

a wrote: Jim,

Yes, the dogs are totally raw-fed and have been for 8 years. I feed

prey-model (not BARF or SARF) so there are no grains, veg, or fruits.

Well, except for a random treat from someone else and minor plate-

licking. DinoVit sounds like a supplement. I haven't researched it

but I will. You didn't give a source.

Garnet,

There is no bad breath. If there is anything wrong with their ears,

it must be way down in the canal. The ears appear clean, don't smell,

and if I swab them out with a tissue, there is almost no gunk.

I know it only takes one flea to cause a reaction in some dogs but I

have not found any flea evidence. I even check their beds with clear

shipping tape to check for flea poop or eggs and have found nothing.

I've eliminated seasonal allergies because it's gone on through 3

(maybe 4) seasons. I've lost track of time but the problem has

existed for 8-12 months.

---------------------------------

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

Mange is caused by Demodectic or Sarcoptic mites.

Garnet

Joyce wrote:

> Greetings all, Perhaps the terribly itchy skin condition of the

> dog(s) is not mites, or allergies ... but Mange?? I have heard IT is

> an itchy killer. How is it different in symptoms? Would borax have

> helped it? Someone mentioned borax and boron. Is Boron a

> form/derivative/ or whatever of Borax? Boron is needed in the body.

> Joyce

>

>

>

>>> Borax is a lung irritant. I will copy and paste the MSDS in a

> separate

>>>> email.

>>>>

>>>> Raw diets do not eliminate fleas. If you did not have them then

> it was not

>>>> the diet, it was the environment. This myth has been widely

> discussed on

>>>> raw feeding lists, and it is exactly that, a myth.

>>>>

>>>>

>>> ------------------------------------

>>>

>>> List Home Page:

>>>

>>> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO

>>>

>>> Books:

>>> DMSO Nature's Healer by Morton

>>> MSM The Definitive Guide by Stanely MD and Appleton,

> ND

[Guest guest]

Just keep in mind that a negative skin scraping does not mean they do

not have demodex. Demodectic

mites are very hard to detect even with some serious scraping. That said

most dogs have a few and their immunity keeps their numbers

in check. Dogs that have compromised immunity for any number of reasons

may lose hair around their

eyes first, then patches on their trunk with red skin in the case of

demodectic. Sarcoptic tends to be in

the flank area and one sided. Not that it can't appear in other ways or

locations.

Garnet

Gail wrote:

> Has your vet taken a skin sample from the dog that has chewed and scratched

the fur? It is possible that they have demodectic mites. It is a lot more common

in puppies and young dogs that have a compromised immune system, but it could be

worth checking into, since you have found no relief with what has been tried.

These can cause a foul odor also.

>

> As far as 2 out of 3, maybe the 3rd one is just lucky... or his immune system

is dealing with whatever it is better than the other 2. Good luck finding the

problem! I know your guys must be miserable.

>

> Gail

>

> a wrote: Jim,

> Yes, the dogs are totally raw-fed and have been for 8 years. I feed

> prey-model (not BARF or SARF) so there are no grains, veg, or fruits.

> Well, except for a random treat from someone else and minor plate-

> licking. DinoVit sounds like a supplement. I haven't researched it

> but I will. You didn't give a source.

>

> Garnet,

> There is no bad breath. If there is anything wrong with their ears,

> it must be way down in the canal. The ears appear clean, don't smell,

> and if I swab them out with a tissue, there is almost no gunk.

> I know it only takes one flea to cause a reaction in some dogs but I

> have not found any flea evidence. I even check their beds with clear

> shipping tape to check for flea poop or eggs and have found nothing.

> I've eliminated seasonal allergies because it's gone on through 3

> (maybe 4) seasons. I've lost track of time but the problem has

> existed for 8-12 months.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

>

>