Guest guest Posted September 15, 1998 Report Share Posted September 15, 1998 We are in an acute care teaching hospital. Our state practice act has some very stringent guidelines for use of technicians. This has made us unable to have them " treat " in the acute care setting. Our " productivity " expectation is 19-20 units/PT or PTA. IT is a level we have had to defend, but have found it a realistic level when we look at our other responsbilities including student training, oreintation, staff education etc.... > Re: efficiency > > You stated that you expect 25-26 units per PT or PTA. Do you have techs > or aids working with them? Is this in an acute hospital setting, or > outpatient? If you do use techs or aids, do you not include them in your > productivity expectations? We count PT's, PTA's, and Techs in a division > and expect 20 units/day/person in those 3 job classifications, because in > our state, as long as the patient is seen for one of his treatments by > the PT each day, the tech can see them the other time. Therefore, the > tech is accountable for billable units each day, as long as supervisory > regs are being followed. Thanks for your input. It really helps us to > compare apples and apples, and see if we are in the ballpark. > > >>> " Mark Dwyer " 09/14 10:54 PM >>> > Carol, > > Your goal of 140 billable 15 minute units per day for 2 PT's and 3 PTA's > (28 > units per therapists = 7 treatment hours per day per therapist) is close > to > what we expect. We allow 6.5 hours per day for patient care and expect > 25-26 units. That may change when we go under PPS, but the fact is that > we > exceed 25 units fairly often. This is the expectation for PT and OT. > > Mark Dwyer, MHA, PT > Kansas City, Kansas > mdwyer1@... > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 1998 Report Share Posted September 15, 1998 Carol and Moira: I am currently teaching (at a PTA program) the differenciation in task/responsiblilites/deleagtion of PT/PTA/ and aide. What states do you practice in, and would it be possible to send me the wording from your state practice act/rules so the class can discuss it? Sheri Bjork ______________________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 1998 Report Share Posted September 15, 1998 Our state also has very stringent regulations. The tech is not responsible for the treatment, he/she is assisting the PT by providing delegated treatment activities. It can only be billed as PT as long as the therapist has direct involvement with the patient each day. >>> " Mulligan, Moira A. " 09/15 2:25 PM >>> We are in an acute care teaching hospital. Our state practice act has some very stringent guidelines for use of technicians. This has made us unable to have them " treat " in the acute care setting. Our " productivity " expectation is 19-20 units/PT or PTA. IT is a level we have had to defend, but have found it a realistic level when we look at our other responsbilities including student training, oreintation, staff education etc.... > Re: efficiency > > You stated that you expect 25-26 units per PT or PTA. Do you have techs > or aids working with them? Is this in an acute hospital setting, or > outpatient? If you do use techs or aids, do you not include them in your > productivity expectations? We count PT's, PTA's, and Techs in a division > and expect 20 units/day/person in those 3 job classifications, because in > our state, as long as the patient is seen for one of his treatments by > the PT each day, the tech can see them the other time. Therefore, the > tech is accountable for billable units each day, as long as supervisory > regs are being followed. Thanks for your input. It really helps us to > compare apples and apples, and see if we are in the ballpark. > > >>> " Mark Dwyer " 09/14 10:54 PM >>> > Carol, > > Your goal of 140 billable 15 minute units per day for 2 PT's and 3 PTA's > (28 > units per therapists = 7 treatment hours per day per therapist) is close > to > what we expect. We allow 6.5 hours per day for patient care and expect > 25-26 units. That may change when we go under PPS, but the fact is that > we > exceed 25 units fairly often. This is the expectation for PT and OT. > > Mark Dwyer, MHA, PT > Kansas City, Kansas > mdwyer1@... > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1998 Report Share Posted September 16, 1998 I'd be interested in what the difference between the aid/PTA would be > and their responsibilities and what they are accountable for. I'm an an > Allied Health Admissions Rep in which I counsel prospective PTA's. > > Thanks, > > Anne Harrington > > >From ptmanager-return-405-anneh=hotmail.comegroups Tue Sep 15 > 17:32:34 1998 > >Received: (qmail 22561 invoked by uid 505); 16 Sep 1998 00:33:30 -0000 > >Mailing-List: contact ptmanager-owneregroups > >Precedence: list > >X-URL: /list/ptmanager/ > >X-Mailing-List: ptmanageregroups > >Reply-To: ptmanageregroups > >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-ptmanageregroups > >Received: (qmail 8779 invoked by uid 7770); 16 Sep 1998 00:32:28 -0000 > >Received: from e-tex.com (206.25.36.2) > > by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 00:32:28 -0000 > >Received: (qmail 6472 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 00:31:30 -0000 > >Received: from r3m24.e-tex.com (HELO default) (206.25.37.88) > > by e-tex.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 00:31:30 -0000 > >Message-ID: <001e01bde0df$a2ff2180$582519ce@default> > > > >To: <ptmanageregroups> > >Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:32:53 -0000 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset= " iso-8859-1 " > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >X-Priority: 3 > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 > >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > >Subject: Re: RE: efficiency > > > >Carol and Moira: > > > >I am currently teaching (at a PTA program) the differenciation in > >task/responsiblilites/deleagtion of PT/PTA/ and aide. What states do > you > >practice in, and would it be possible to send me the wording from your > state > >practice act/rules so the class can discuss it? > > > >Sheri Bjork > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 1998 Report Share Posted September 16, 1998 I'd be interested in what the difference between the aid/PTA would be > > and their responsibilities and what they are accountable for. I'm an an > > Allied Health Admissions Rep in which I counsel prospective PTA's. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Anne Harrington > > > > >From ptmanager-return-405-anneh=hotmail.comegroups Tue Sep 15 > > 17:32:34 1998 > > >Received: (qmail 22561 invoked by uid 505); 16 Sep 1998 00:33:30 -0000 > > >Mailing-List: contact ptmanager-owneregroups > > >Precedence: list > > >X-URL: /list/ptmanager/ > > >X-Mailing-List: ptmanageregroups > > >Reply-To: ptmanageregroups > > >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-ptmanageregroups > > >Received: (qmail 8779 invoked by uid 7770); 16 Sep 1998 00:32:28 -0000 > > >Received: from e-tex.com (206.25.36.2) > > > by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 00:32:28 -0000 > > >Received: (qmail 6472 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 00:31:30 -0000 > > >Received: from r3m24.e-tex.com (HELO default) (206.25.37.88) > > > by e-tex.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 00:31:30 -0000 > > >Message-ID: <001e01bde0df$a2ff2180$582519ce@default> > > > > > >To: <ptmanageregroups> > > >Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:32:53 -0000 > > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > > >Content-Type: text/plain; > > > charset= " iso-8859-1 " > > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >X-Priority: 3 > > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 > > >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > > >Subject: Re: RE: efficiency > > > > > >Carol and Moira: > > > > > >I am currently teaching (at a PTA program) the differenciation in > > >task/responsiblilites/deleagtion of PT/PTA/ and aide. What states do > > you > > >practice in, and would it be possible to send me the wording from your > > state > > >practice act/rules so the class can discuss it? > > > > > >Sheri Bjork > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 1998 Report Share Posted September 30, 1998 No, they weren't. The person assigned to my department was a nurse, with a background as a nurse supervisor of rehab services. She spent 13 weeks in the department. Initially, I had to come up with guestimates of time spent on every aspect of patient care. Units of service (0-15 minutes) didn't matter. She wanted down to the minute times. So if you did a 10 minute ultrasound and billed 1 unit (0-15 minutes), how did we account for the other 5 minutes of our time? Charting, phone call, bathroom? Got to be a real nightmare trying to account for every minute of your time. Trying to do this with inpatient services was worse. As I said, productivity is much worse here because of waiting for the patient, reviewing charts (finding charts!!) Dr. visits, patient with other ancillary services, (you know, they'll just be a minute - 10 minutes later). Then we looked at total units of service delivered over the previous 6 months and got an average and divided by paid staff hours over the same time to get units of service per hour. The company had a computerized productivity and staffing program that we were to use as " our efficiency tool " . Plug the numbers in and it will tell you how many FTE's you will need. So, based on todays total output, we can plan for tomorrows needs. We then trialed the program for about 6 weeks, trying to tweak the numbers as it became apparant some of my time guestimates were way off. Came up with a number that says each unit of service, on average, takes 32 minutes of our time (includes chart time, telephone calls, modality set up and take down, etc. Keep in mind that this was time based on averages for outpatient and inpatient services. Never worked. Not even close. What happens when you use the plan to staff for 50 inpatient visits the next day and you get 10-15 new patients. Or you get a few acute back pain patients from the ER. Their ludicrus answer, call that therapist sitting at home waiting by the phone. Nursing does this all the time. At that point, I knew this person had no clue. They had their canned staff productivity software program, one that they use for other ancillary services, and instead of tailoring it to meet our needs, tried to shoehorn us into their system. Unfortunately, they sold administration on this flawed productivity measure, despite my numbers (worked out on my own) showing the glaring errors and flawed design and we had to cut 1 FTE PT and 1.5 FTE Techs. Six months after the fallout, I was able to convince administration (with MY numbers) that we were in need of additional staff. Definitely a colossal waist of time and money. Two years later, staff level is back to where it was before the " Time of Trouble " . Sorry for leaving you hanging for a moment. Had to watch Sammy Sosa hit #63. Re: efficiency >You stated that you expect 25-26 units per PT or PTA. Do you have techs or aids working with them? Is this in an acute hospital setting, or outpatient? If you do use techs or aids, do you not include them in your productivity expectations? We count PT's, PTA's, and Techs in a division and expect 20 units/day/person in those 3 job classifications, because in our state, as long as the patient is seen for one of his treatments by the PT each day, the tech can see them the other time. Therefore, the tech is accountable for billable units each day, as long as supervisory regs are being followed. Thanks for your input. It really helps us to compare apples and apples, and see if we are in the ballpark. > >>>> " Mark Dwyer " 09/14 10:54 PM >>> >Carol, > >Your goal of 140 billable 15 minute units per day for 2 PT's and 3 PTA's (28 >units per therapists = 7 treatment hours per day per therapist) is close to >what we expect. We allow 6.5 hours per day for patient care and expect >25-26 units. That may change when we go under PPS, but the fact is that we >exceed 25 units fairly often. This is the expectation for PT and OT. > >Mark Dwyer, MHA, PT >Kansas City, Kansas >mdwyer1@... > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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