Re: Help me understand, please

[Guest guest]

Hi!

TIA, I'm not talking about overeating. I saying that we all need to have a certain amount just for our body to work properly and to burn fat. I do understand what you are saying. I reacted the same way I first heard it.

Several years ago I lost about 40 pounds on Weight Watchers. It was at Weight Watchers that I learned this concept. If you aren't familiar with the plan.. it's works like this....

Each food had a point value. It's based on a combination of carbs, fats, and calories. They do have books to help you know the point value or each food. Also, you get a little slide rule to help you figure the point value from the nutrition labels.

The points you are allowed each day is determined by how much you weigh. The higher your weight, the more points you are allowed each day. So, for someone that weights (male or female) 230.. you are allowed 28 points. As your weigh drops, so does the amount of points you can eat. So.. for a body to be healthy, it actually takes more food for the overweight person then the thin person. That is why you see thin people pick at their food... a lot of the time. Women that weigh only 100 pounds do not need much for their body's to work. The higher the weight, the more you need. That is the hard part on the diet. As the weight comes off so do the amount of points you are allowed and it gets harder to find food that allows you to stay in that point range.

I saw this concept work over and over again. Lets say... you are suppose to have 28 points a day, and lets say you think you are helping yourself speed the process by eating 24 points.. What happens? Do you lose more weight, and faster? My experience is.. your body stops the weight loss. It takes energy to burn fat and if you don't provide your body with enough energy to burn fat, and only enough to run your body.. our body's are made in such a way that we will hang on to the fat stores in our body's. Now.. at 28 points.. it still is not the full amount to maintain so you lose. It's all a balance. Of course if we were really starving the fat would come off. Usually muscle comes off first and that is why exercise is so important.

What's really weird.. lets say I've been good on my diet.. really good for weeks. I decide that I really am hungry and I eat a steak.. or a high fat meal. It's so weird... I drop several pounds almost overnight. It's the weirdest thing and doesn't seem to make sense. What does make sense is I probably wasn't getting enough for energy to burn the next few pounds and a high fat meal will push my body into burning mode. I'd do that once in a while and it was always such a boost. It only works when you have been really good on your diet and you are stalled.

Another thing with Weight Watchers.. and it's been a few years so things could have changed... If you exercise... each exercise has a point value. So.. you need to add those on to your daily food points. If you do an exercise worth 2 points.. you can eat those too. Or.. your body doesn't have enough and you stall again. Just how it works... I can't explain it.. I just know it. It has it's own science.

The problem is.. when we don't pay attention... and we think we are doing good.. well.. that doesn't work either.

I know Steve has probably found this out on his journey. If he doesn't eat enough.. he doesn't have the energy to walk. It's a balance.

That is what is so hard about losing weight. We can't just stop eating. Eating 600 calories a day just isn't healthy. Our body's need more each day just to work right. It's all about balance.

Me.. I just need to find it again! I do well for a while.. and then life takes over and I don't want to think about it.

After my loss.. the doctor put me on some medication that causes weight gain. Within three months I gained it back. Because of that.. the doctor took me off that medication. Problem is.. I've struggled getting it off again. I took off 30 on South Beach a year ago, and I've been in the same spot since. I just need an extra boast of motivation to get going again.

By the way.. I loved South Beach! It works! No counting.. just eat what is on the list. I don't eat white sugar, white flour, or anything processed. No white rice. I works! Healthy is what I am aiming for.

Good luck!

Joanne

[Guest guest]

I'm new to your list. I got involved with Steves story mainly because I live in Oceanside near where Steve started his walk. I've been enjoying his tails and his introspective opinions.

Just hang on and one of these days you will get there and be able to hang there.

[Guest guest]

Well In response to your question, I know it is true because I have a problem with not eating. As I said, I have been put on very low calorie diets and gained weight. This is due to a life time habit of not eating regularly. I weigh and measure and all that stuff. When I go back to eating three meals and 1 or 2 snacks, I eat much more and lose weight. The biggest thing I deal with is I do not get hungry as my mind is going all the time on other things. I believe that through years of ignoring hunger it just no longer works for me. I am really good at making my offspring and now their offspring eat well...but left on my own I don't. If I think about it I grab a nutrition bar at lunch and a cup of black coffee. Then I don't eat again till 8 or so, unless someone reminds me. I might have a yogurt or something then as I am still working and it is especially bad this time of year. As to exercise, I walk miles every day.....maybe I should use some of my walking time to eat? lolol

My blood pressure is perfect, my cholesterol is low, my blood sugar is totally in balance, I can backpack w/ a 30 pound pack for days at a time averaging about 12 to 13 miles a day over mountains ranging from 4000 feet to 8000 feet...but I am considered clinically obese.

Go figure.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Pete

Thanks for the message on my group. I thought that I might add my

two cents in on this because your message seems to encompass a lot

of the elements that I think are usually present in an overweight

person's life. I have come to understand a few things about my own

weight problems and hopefully I can help others giving my opinion

about the things in your message.

As I see it, the main contributing factor to being overweight is

nutrition; most people think that being overweight is a settling

place for the body and I think it is the opposite. Most people have

to work at staying over weight through excessive consumption, and a

lot do it though just poor quality excessive consumption. We give

our bodies too much or poor quality food and then are surprised at

how it reacts to it. The first thing that I think a person needs to

do to regain their health is to learn what is good nutrition and how

to BALANCE food and life. It is a necessity that we eat, but it is a

weapon against ourselves that we overeat. But education and

understanding about our relationship to food is the only true

defense.

Diets usually are borne from the false belief that food is the

culprit. We are blaming food and not ourselves for consuming it.

This creates a situation with food that makes us think of it as an

enemy when in fact the problem is that we are overindulging;

ultimately this gives the notion of food as a powerful thing, when

in truth, it has no power over you at all instead you have a

weakness over it.

The second and most important thing about diets is that they are not

sustainable in regular life and this is their critical flaw.

Changing your behavior (eating habits and relationship to food)

requires a long term plan and steady effort over time to get to the

goal of eating food for live and not living for food. There is no

shortcut to weightloss and losing weight requires working within a

system where temptations are all around us everyday.

Your words:

" I will have been worrying about my gain for some time I will

usually get ahold of myself and lose 15 or so lbs. That will drop

me back to 195, and then my diet will lose

steam. A year or two latter I'll have to do this again. And of

course, my racing wt (ideal wt) should really be 160 or 165. I've

recently become diabetic, so getting to that racing wt would be a

lot more help these days. " " I know something about diets and over

eating and will power. "

I think that you are actually speaking words that most of us have.

We talk in terms of things that our out of our control and then

reinforce the difficulty of our own struggles by adding more

elements to it; I believe that this is an effort on a subconscious

level to nullify our feelings of inadequacy in regard to our ability

to control indulgence issues.

Your words again:

" When we don't eat enough, our bodies go into starvation mode and it

hangs on to the fat

so we don't lose. " " I have trouble with this statement. I'm not

saying that it isn't

true, but my diets have always worked when I am motivated enough to

stay

on them. "

This is I think a profound statement on your part. You say that

diets have worked for you in the past. But obviously they haven't.

They do accomplish short term goals but fail to address the

underlying control issues which are at the root of weight. All diets

are guaranteed to work but what is also guaranteed is that a diet is

rarely successful permanently. They are really just a temporary

respite from a battle that we are not willing to fully commit to.

The only way to truly be successful in losing weight is to not

sustain the behavior that helps you maintain the weight you have.

Eat well, eat properly and eat to live – the body will naturally do

the rest.

" I think that if you do2000 calories of efforts and only eat 1000

calories of food that the

body will get the other 1000 calories from either your fat reserves

or from your muscle tissue. I can't see it any other way. "

This is something that I have just recently talked with a health

professional about and was really amazed at how wrong the statement

is. One word fits here perfectly –Deficiency.

It seems logical that 2000 out and 1000 in means that you are

burning the excess storage. If this was a daily routine then the

body would adjust to it but most times these numbers are just a blip

on the radar of calorific intake for an overweight person.

Secondly, in most cases the body is trying to survive and will hold

onto fat stores for later consumption and when there is a intake

drop from normal levels the body will be slow to react and the

result is nutritional deficiency not stored fat use.

To create and maintain and intake/output balance we need to maintain

the balanced intake/output patterns over a long period. The body

will adjust to the new levels and start releasing the stored fat to

bring itself into its new balance. So overtime consuming less

calories, not starving oneself, will ultimately lead to a more

balanced body and weightloss.

" I do know that when my diets eventually stall out, it is because I

have started to break from what has been working, and adding extra

mouthfuls along the way, telling myself that its ok for some reason. "

I think you will agree that it is not the diet that fails but your

resolve to make it a long term change, we need to find balance in

life and work out a long term plan to maintain that balance.

" I'd appreciate it if any of you can tell me why the above quote is

true. I, like most other, think that you are making an excuse for

yourselves. Hold on here folks. I'm not trying to start a fight. I

would just like some help understanding. "

This is an interesting statement and I think indicative of your

frustration with yourself and your battle with food. It is not

uncommon to hear this sort of contradictory language in someone with

our common problem. I get thousands of emails just like this.

In the first line you are asking for advice, because you feel like

you do not have the answer, a notion that I completely disagree with

by the way. But then in the second line you berate those whose

opinion that you seek with the blanket statement that they " are all

making excuses for themselves " . And the in the third and forth you

are back to seeking understanding from those very same people.

I think the important thing to remember here is that you are on a

quest to understand why your weight is beyond your control. I am

saying that it isn't your weight that is out of control. If you want

to lose weight then you have to be prepared to fight with the

sneakiest, most insidious enemy that you will ever face. You,

specifically your weakness!

In short, forget dieting, forget empty diet food and embrace life

and all that it has to offer including food. But just do it in

reasonable moderation.

Eat well, eat properly and eat to live – the body will naturally do

the rest. But most importantly, when you transgress, which we all

do, learn to forgive yourself by understanding that fighting

overeating is a long term commitment and transgressions do not mean

failure, they are merely setbacks and then opportunities to succeed

over them.

Just my opinion.

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hey Steve,

--- " Vaught " wrote:

> If you want

> to lose weight then you have to be prepared to fight with the

> sneakiest, most insidious enemy that you will ever face.

I really recommend you pick up a copy of 'The War of Art " by Pressfield.

It is short, and potent. He does a great job of identifying

this 'enemy' how he behaves, what powers him, and what deflates

him.

Good Luck,

--Chris

[Guest guest]

Pete, I've been overweight all of my life. I do feel that only I can

lose this weight and that it is up to me. However I haven't yet been

able to (lose it long-term) so far. I may have it under control

right now, but I won't know for sure until I look back at the end of

my life and see if I did it.

I don't think there is one reason that people gain weight or are fat.

It's so complex. If it wasn't, so many people wouldn't be fat. I

don't think it's reasonable to judge everyone else's experiences based

only on your own. Everyone feels different. If it's easy for you to

lose weight or if it's very hard but you can still do it, it doesn't

mean it's easy for the next person. For some people it's an

addiction. Addictions are complex, too. I know what's it's like to

have every cell in my body burning, screaming at me for food. How

long can one stand that? How many thin people would crumble right

away? We don't know because it's not a problem for them. Please

don't think I'm using this for an excuse. It's just one of the many

obstacles. But what Steve says makes so much sense and I think it

will work.

As far as it not being good to consume too few calories, it has been

published in medical publications that it's thought that in cave man

days, people weren't sure when they may see their next meal. The body

compensated for this by slowing down the metabolism whenever the body

didn't receive much food. This conserved the fuel they had so that

they could survive the lean times. The body still does this so

whenever it receives little or no food, it tries to hold on to the

calories it has. If one consumes too few calories over a long period

of time, the body adjusts it's " normal " metabolic rate to always be

low, to conserve fuel. That makes it even harder for people to lose

weight. However I guess eventually this has to run out.

HTH

Elaine

> I'm new to your list. I got involved with Steves story mainly

> because I live in Oceanside near where Steve started his walk. I've

> been enjoying his tails and his introspective opinions.

>

> So now I'm starting to get a little involved with some of you. So

> let me tell you where I'm coming from so you can understand my

> viewpoint, and then I will try to understand your ideas as well.

>

> I'm an over eater, and a slow gainer if I'm left to myself. I'm 5'

> 11 " and will creep up to 210 or so nekid, I will have been worrying

> about my gain for some time I will usually get ahold of myself and lose

> 15 or so lbs. That will drop me back to 195, and then my diet will lose

> steam. A year or two latter I'll have to do this again. And of course,

> my racing wt (ideal wt) should really be 160 or 165. I've recently

> become diabetic, so getting to that racing wt would be a lot more help

> these days.

>

> So.........I know something about diets and over eating and will

> power. I'm not an expert, but I have slept in a Holiday Inn in the

> past.....

>

> Someone said:

>

> > > ........................................When we don't eat

> > > enough, our bodies go into starvation mode and it hangs on to the fat

> > > so we don't lose.

>

> I have trouble with this statement. I'm not saying that it isn't

> true, but my diets have always worked when I am motivated enough to stay

> on them. I'm kind of a science kind of guy. I think that if you do

> 2000 calories of efforts and only eat 1000 calories of food that the

> body will get the other 1000 calories from either your fat reserves or

> from your muscle tissue. I can't see it any other way.

>

> I do know that when my diets eventually stall out, it is because I

> have started to break from what has been working, and adding extra

> mouthfuls along the way, telling myself that its ok for some reason.

>

> I'm 65 and have been through more cycles of this than most of you,

> and I probably haven't gotten as obese as many of you, but I do take

> responsibility for my own bodies shape. Maybe I can learn a bit from

> you guys though.

>

> I'd appreciate it if any of you can tell me why the above quote is

> true. I, like most other, think that you are making an excuse for

> yourselves. Hold on here folks. I'm not trying to start a fight. I

> would just like some help understanding. If I can understand, maybe I

> can get past my diet's stall point........and while you are talking

> about this, maybe help yourselves as well.

>

> TIA

>

> --

> Peace

> Pete

[Guest guest]

Elaine wrote:

> Pete, I've been overweight all of my life............for sure until I

> look back at the end of

> my life and see if I did it.

I can relate to that. I've been smaller often enouth to know that it

may not last....in fact it probably won't last.

>

>

> I don't think there is one reason that people gain weight or are fat.

> It's so complex..............Addictions are complex, too.

I grew up being complemented for eating a lot. Second helping were

praised. In fact if I ate enough spagetti my father would palm a piece,

and act like he had pulled it out of my ear. That was a very large

reward. I'm sure my mom just want me to have enough to grow on, but I

think it was a bad habit to creat in me.

This is just an example of the complexities of being over weight.

>

>

> As far as it not being good to consume too few calories, it has been

> published in medical publications that it's thought that in cave man

> days, people weren't sure when they may see their next meal.

I've considered that many of us are much better suited to have been

alive back then when packing on a little fat was a good thing, and would

do much better than a naturally thin man or woman. But that doesn't

mean that we can't cope with todays food situation.

> If one consumes too few calories over a long period

> of time, the body adjusts it's " normal " metabolic rate to always be

> low, to conserve fuel.

Well, here's hoping that we all can make some improvements with our habits.

Thanks for the response, Elaine.

Peace

Pete

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[Guest guest]

That just doesn't make any sense, Jane. I'm flabergasted. I would

like to see that for myself. I mean that I have this sense that I would

be able to understand if I was walking in your shoes. Are you dieting

now or most of the time or on and off. It is hard to believe thast you

have a problem.

jjsmth@... wrote:

> Well In response to your question, I know it is true because I have a

> problem with not eating. As I said, I have been put on very low

> calorie diets and gained weight. This is due to a life time habit of

> not eating regularly. I weigh and measure and all that stuff. When I

> go back to eating three meals and 1 or 2 snacks, I eat much more and

> lose weight. .....................................

> can backpack w/ a 30 pound pack for days at a time averaging about 12

> to 13 miles a day over mountains ranging from 4000 feet to 8000

> feet...but I am considered clinically obese.

------------------------------------------------------

And thanks for that weigh watchers information.................

--

Peace

Pete

US postal UPS Ph #

deliveries deliveries push ups..12

Pete Springer 432 Edgehill ln, #121 sit ups...25

Box 938 Oceanside, Ca 92054 squats....30

Cardiff, Ca 92007 Cell chin ups..1.5

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[Guest guest]

I guess I don't really see it as a problem as I am healthy and active....I know others look at me and see a fat person tho...it is annoying! I am so much more then that...I am a backpacker..a wife and mom...grandma.....bookkeeper/tax preparer...friend...in short a totally incredible person. I did not have a weight problem in youth...it has grown over the years...I am not dieting now as work is heavy...on the other hand neither am I eating! lol...I had raspberries for breakfast...a couple handfuls of almonds for mid afternoon snack....and a salad with cottage cheese for dinner, along with a piece of turkey breast. That is actually a good day of eating for me. I had to take hubbie to the dr or I would probably have skipped dinner too

oh well....I am what I am...Can't wait for tax season to end as I have an 82.9 mile hike planned!

Take care and Keep up the smiles everyone...things can get worse (and they usually do!)

Elaine...We all love you and send mighty prayers out for you....

Jane

[Guest guest]

I average nearly 5 miles walking per day; and 4 of the miles are

usually at 4mph, so not exactly leisurely pace. I guarantee I

exercise more than the average " skinny " person. I exercise about an

hour a day; for 6 or 7 days a week. Yet I have only lost about 6

pounds in the last 9 months of doing this. I weight about 220 and

should probably be at 170.

I don't eat like a bird; but I am not eating ice cream and chips all

day either.

I don't mean to complain; if that is how that came off. It's just

frustrating.

It could be the nutrition issue that Steve is talking about; I

probably eat at restaurants several times per week. And these meals

are probably not the best possible choices.

I share the frustration with everyone who has trouble getting weight

to budge. That is the main thing I want to say. But I also feel

pretty darn good because of all the walking. I want to make that

clear as well. My blood pressure is fine, basically 120/80 almost all

the time, cholesterol low - 159. But about 50 pounds overweight.