Re: Hey, a Big Thanks to Neil!

[Guest guest]

Cerulean danced around singing:

>P.S: Any anti-war activisits out there may want to

>provide the song " The Call-UP "

Hee, and you remind me of a song my father played for me during the Gulf

War when I was just a young teen -- " I Feel Like I'm Fixin To Die Rag " by

Country Joe and The Fish. Now I've got it stuck in my head, aieee!

Anyone interested can both hear & read the lyrics at

http://www.countryjoe.com/feelmus.htm

Though I rather think Neil will like the lines:

Come on Wall Street, don't move slow,

Why man, this is war au-go-go.

There's plenty good money to be made

Supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,

Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,

They drop it on the Viet Cong.

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

[Guest guest]

> Hee, and you remind me of a song my father played

> for me during the Gulf

> War when I was just a young teen -- " I Feel Like I'm

> Fixin To Die Rag " by

> Country Joe and The Fish. Now I've got it stuck in

> my head, aieee!

------LOL! The annoyance of my presence spreads,

ieeeeyyyeee! God, I haven;t heard Country Joe and

the Fish in years! My brother may still have an album

or two buried deep in the basement; god, I have to get

down there and sort crap...

>

>

> Though I rather think Neil will like the lines:

>

> Come on Wall Street, don't move slow,

> Why man, this is war au-go-go.

> There's plenty good money to be made

> Supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,

> Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,

> They drop it on the Viet Cong.

>

-------If they were ever photographed in a vintage

Cadillac, he won't like it! Har!

Nanne

>

=====

" Does it mean I should take a machete? To chop my way through the path of life?

Does it mean I should run with the dog pack? Is that the way to be the one to

survive? Never need a gun says T'ai Chi, move on up to dragon snaps his tail:

All by the still water, hammer with his eye on the nail; Is the music of grove

school rock, soaked in the diesals of war boys war? Blood, black gold and the

face of a judge, is the music calling for a river of blood?--- " Corner Soul " , ,

Joe Strummer/Mick

[Guest guest]

Being a child of the 80s, I am rather partial to Culture Club's " The War

Song. It has very simple lyrics: " War is stupid, and people are stupid,

and love means nothing, in some strange quarters. War is stupid, and

people and people are stupid. I heard them banging on hearts and fingers. "

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

--Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

-------Music has always had an ability to move me and

inspire me in political matters much more than reading

about it has. Although to be honest I've never heard

any Republican conservative bands with lyrics about

not sending their taxes to help the poor, lol. I'm

sure I wouldn;t like it anyway.

By the way, I decided long ago I would not raise

my son in any political doctrination of one way or

another but let him make his own conclusions. Of

course I have certain values here that he is aware of.

But I'm quite tickled that he has lately taken a more

active interest in what is going on politically. And

he has a deep disdain for Bush.

Nanne

--- " Iris M. Gray " wrote:

> Being a child of the 80s, I am rather partial to

> Culture Club's " The War

> Song. It has very simple lyrics: " War is stupid, and

> people are stupid,

> and love means nothing, in some strange quarters.

> War is stupid, and

> people and people are stupid. I heard them banging

> on hearts and fingers. "

>

> Iris

>

>

> Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

> Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

> --Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

> Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

> Toastmasters website:

> http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 11:40 AM 1/17/03 -0800, Cerulean wrote:

>-------Music has always had an ability to move me and

>inspire me in political matters much more than reading

>about it has. Although to be honest I've never heard

>any Republican conservative bands with lyrics about

>not sending their taxes to help the poor, lol. I'm

>sure I wouldn;t like it anyway.

Most Republicans are compassionate about the poor, it's just that the

belief is that the compassion is not measured by how many poor people we

give money to but rather by how many poor people we empower to no longer

need government money.

> By the way, I decided long ago I would not raise

>my son in any political doctrination of one way or

>another but let him make his own conclusions. Of

>course I have certain values here that he is aware of.

> But I'm quite tickled that he has lately taken a more

>active interest in what is going on politically. And

>he has a deep disdain for Bush.

I'm reasonably pleased with Bush. He has been handed a very full

platter and I believe he's doing a good job of dealing with all the crap. I

do wish, however, that we'd start buying oil from Russia or using more

domestic oil because it's kind of stupid to financially support the people

who want us all to die.

I like what Jon said the other day, though. " I want to get a hybrid

car so then I'm only supporting terrorists when I'm driving uphill. " LOL!

[Guest guest]

--- Sparrow Rose Cross

wrote:

>

> I like what Jon said the other day, though.

> " I want to get a hybrid

> car so then I'm only supporting terrorists when I'm

> driving uphill. " LOL!

>

> ---Hi Sparrow; I don't understand what this means??

thanks

Nanne

=====

" Does it mean I should take a machete? To chop my way through the path of life?

Does it mean I should run with the dog pack? Is that the way to be the one to

survive? Never need a gun says T'ai Chi, move on up to dragon snaps his tail:

All by the still water, hammer with his eye on the nail; Is the music of grove

school rock, soaked in the diesals of war boys war? Blood, black gold and the

face of a judge, is the music calling for a river of blood?--- " Corner Soul " , ,

Joe Strummer/Mick

[Guest guest]

At 07:10 PM 1/17/03 -0800, Cerulean wrote:

>

>--- Sparrow Rose Cross

>wrote:

>>

>> I like what Jon said the other day, though.

>> " I want to get a hybrid

>> car so then I'm only supporting terrorists when I'm

>> driving uphill. " LOL!

>>

>> ---Hi Sparrow; I don't understand what this means??

There are commercials out now that claim that people who drive SUVs are

supporting terrorism because they get such low gas mileage.

http://www.newsnet5.com/sh/money/stories/money-187846520030108-220106.html

Hybrid cars run on a combination of battery power and gasoline, using the

gasoline only when the batteries are low on charge or to boost power when

going up hills.

[Guest guest]

--- Sparrow Rose Cross

wrote:

> At 07:10 PM 1/17/03 -0800, Cerulean wrote:

> >

> >--- Sparrow Rose Cross

> >wrote:

> >>

> >> I like what Jon said the other day,

> though.

> >> " I want to get a hybrid

> >> car so then I'm only supporting terrorists when

> I'm

> >> driving uphill. " LOL!

> >>

> >> ---Hi Sparrow; I don't understand what this

> means??

>

> There are commercials out now that claim that people

> who drive SUVs are

> supporting terrorism because they get such low gas

> mileage.

>

http://www.newsnet5.com/sh/money/stories/money-187846520030108-220106.html

>

> Hybrid cars run on a combination of battery power

> and gasoline, using the

> gasoline only when the batteries are low on charge

> or to boost power when

> going up hills.

>

------Oh, okay; ha! Max did an essay on SUVs and

found a quote by an SUV owner, " We don't have to worry

if we get into wrecks with other cars, as the other

cars act as our air bags. "

Nanne

=====

" Does it mean I should take a machete? To chop my way through the path of life?

Does it mean I should run with the dog pack? Is that the way to be the one to

survive? Never need a gun says T'ai Chi, move on up to dragon snaps his tail:

All by the still water, hammer with his eye on the nail; Is the music of grove

school rock, soaked in the diesals of war boys war? Blood, black gold and the

face of a judge, is the music calling for a river of blood?--- " Corner Soul " , ,

Joe Strummer/Mick

[Guest guest]

Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 9:20 PM

>

> Most Republicans are compassionate about the poor, it's just that the

> belief is that the compassion is not measured by how many poor people we

> give money to but rather by how many poor people we empower to no longer

> need government money.

Exactly. It's that " give a man a fish " vs. " teach a man to fish "

philosophy.

>

>

> I'm reasonably pleased with Bush. He has been handed a very full

> platter and I believe he's doing a good job of dealing with all the crap.

I

> do wish, however, that we'd start buying oil from Russia or using more

> domestic oil because it's kind of stupid to financially support the people

> who want us all to die.

>

I was just telling a couple of days ago that there is absolutely no way

that I would want to be in Bush's shoes. I also think that he has

done a good job so far with all of the incredibly difficult issues he has

been handed. I certainly wouldn't want to have to make the decisions he has

made. At least he has allied the US with people who want to keep us on as

customers...very pragmatic of him ).

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 9:20 PM

>

>

> >

> > Most Republicans are compassionate about the poor, it's just that the

> > belief is that the compassion is not measured by how many poor people we

> > give money to but rather by how many poor people we empower to no longer

> > need government money.

>

> Exactly. It's that " give a man a fish " vs. " teach a man to fish "

> philosophy.

Well, let me give my two cents on the issue as a long-term poor person.

My government says the same things as you say above. They say they want to

encourage poor people to get jobs. There are, however, some problems with

this statement.

1) Dental care is not covered under provincial medical insurance or

covered by welfare. The only thing that is covered is tooth removal.

Therefore, a poor person with bad teeth can't be helped, and is likely to

suffer in the job market compared to someone who can afford dental care.

2) Welfare does not even cover basic groceries. How can a person who is

starving, who has no energy, have the stamina to look for work? (no, we

don't have food stamps. We have food banks, but they have such high demand

on them, single people can't get food from them.)

3) Welfare does not cover the cost of a telephone. How can one get call

backs for jobs when they don't have telephones?

4) Welfare will not cover daycare. How can a single parent look for work

when they have no one to care for their children?

5) A person on welfare cannot afford a professional resume service or even

a computer (unless they had one before becoming unemployed.) They cannot

afford decent clothes for a job interview. They cannot afford public

transportation (and you're not allowed to own a car if you're on welfare;

you have to sell it before you can get welfare.) It is very difficult to

go out job-hunting or attend interviews without a resume, decent clothes

or transportation.

6) Many people are on welfare because they don't have the skills needed to

look for work, let alone get a job. But the government has denied funding

to every single job training and job re-entry program in the province,

including the program that helped me to get a job. This includes services

to people with disabilities. I once had a job counsellor who specialized

in working with people who are on the spectrum. Her job is now gone.

This does not sound like " compassion " to me.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

--Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

Yes, and in some of the welfare-to-work programs I've heard about in the

U.S., people with very few skills are encouraged to get out of whatever

training program they may be in if they get any kind of job offer. This may

be fine in the short-term, but what if they take that job, and it doesn't

teach them very many skills, and they get laid off? Without completing the

training program they're right back where they started. If these programs

would take into account everything a person who doesn't have a job has to

contend with, such as childcare, any disability they may have, etc., etc.,

they'd be a good thing.

Norah

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:46:09 -0800 (PST)

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Hey, a Big Thanks to Neil!

>

>

>

>>

>>

>> Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 9:20 PM

>>

>>

>>>

>>> Most Republicans are compassionate about the poor, it's just that the

>>> belief is that the compassion is not measured by how many poor people we

>>> give money to but rather by how many poor people we empower to no longer

>>> need government money.

>>

>> Exactly. It's that " give a man a fish " vs. " teach a man to fish "

>> philosophy.

>

> Well, let me give my two cents on the issue as a long-term poor person.

>

> My government says the same things as you say above. They say they want to

> encourage poor people to get jobs. There are, however, some problems with

> this statement.

>

> 1) Dental care is not covered under provincial medical insurance or

> covered by welfare. The only thing that is covered is tooth removal.

> Therefore, a poor person with bad teeth can't be helped, and is likely to

> suffer in the job market compared to someone who can afford dental care.

>

> 2) Welfare does not even cover basic groceries. How can a person who is

> starving, who has no energy, have the stamina to look for work? (no, we

> don't have food stamps. We have food banks, but they have such high demand

> on them, single people can't get food from them.)

>

> 3) Welfare does not cover the cost of a telephone. How can one get call

> backs for jobs when they don't have telephones?

>

> 4) Welfare will not cover daycare. How can a single parent look for work

> when they have no one to care for their children?

>

> 5) A person on welfare cannot afford a professional resume service or even

> a computer (unless they had one before becoming unemployed.) They cannot

> afford decent clothes for a job interview. They cannot afford public

> transportation (and you're not allowed to own a car if you're on welfare;

> you have to sell it before you can get welfare.) It is very difficult to

> go out job-hunting or attend interviews without a resume, decent clothes

> or transportation.

>

> 6) Many people are on welfare because they don't have the skills needed to

> look for work, let alone get a job. But the government has denied funding

> to every single job training and job re-entry program in the province,

> including the program that helped me to get a job. This includes services

> to people with disabilities. I once had a job counsellor who specialized

> in working with people who are on the spectrum. Her job is now gone.

>

> This does not sound like " compassion " to me.

>

> Iris

>

>

> Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

> Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

> --Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

> Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

> Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 09:46 AM 1/18/03 -0800, Iris M. Gray wrote:

>1) Dental care is not covered under provincial medical insurance or

>covered by welfare. The only thing that is covered is tooth removal.

>Therefore, a poor person with bad teeth can't be helped, and is likely to

>suffer in the job market compared to someone who can afford dental care.

Don't they have dental schools there that will treat people at a very low

cost? That's what the poor do here. Dental isn't covered here other than

tooth removal or emergency services and medicaid doesn't even pay for

dentures. You have to go to prison or a dental school to get good teeth. I

go to the dental school.

>2) Welfare does not even cover basic groceries. How can a person who is

>starving, who has no energy, have the stamina to look for work? (no, we

>don't have food stamps. We have food banks, but they have such high demand

>on them, single people can't get food from them.)

That *is* a serious problem. We have food stamps but they've been reduced

to a certain amount per lifetime. When I've been too poor to eat, I've

scheduled my day so that I could drop by the soup kitchen for a free lunch.

There is also the Salvation Army here that will give you a certain number

of boxes of food per year and free bread once a week all year. Even without

money for food, I've never had to go without food down here. I'm sorry to

hear that it's not the same way up there. :-(

>3) Welfare does not cover the cost of a telephone. How can one get call

>backs for jobs when they don't have telephones?

They don't have those job centers up there that will help with that? I've

gotten jobs without a telephone before either by asking the manager if I

can call in once a week to see if there's a job available for me; spending

$10/month to get messaging and checking it from the job center, the

homeless shelter or a friend's phone; or by having a job center or homeless

shelter take messages for me. It's a real hassle to get a job without a

telephone but there are ways around it down here.

>4) Welfare will not cover daycare. How can a single parent look for work

>when they have no one to care for their children?

That is a serious problem! I am not a parent but many of my friends have

been parents and down here there are re-education programs and work

programs that give vouchers for day care.

>5) A person on welfare cannot afford a professional resume service or even

>a computer (unless they had one before becoming unemployed.)

Again, job centers do that. Canada is so progressive in so many ways, I'm

stunned to hear they don't have these servicse.

>They cannot

>afford decent clothes for a job interview.

Salvation Army, Goodwill and other low-cost clothing options maintain

professional outfits for people. I always had a problem, though, because I

am a hard-to-fit size. The poor (or anyone!) who does not have a " standard

body " is at a disadvantage in the work place.

> They cannot afford public

>transportation (and you're not allowed to own a car if you're on welfare;

>you have to sell it before you can get welfare.)

That's ridiculous! You're allowed to keep your car here so long as it is

below a certain blue-book value. I've never had a car that went above that

blue book value and I've had some pretty nice cars. Also, most of the

re-education programs down here give free bus passes to participants and

some of the programs through the job centers and homeless shelters will

give out enough bus passes to job-hunt and to make it to the first

paycheck. I never realized how rare these " basic services " are in other

countries. Once again, I'm glad an accident of birth put me in this country.

> It is very difficult to

>go out job-hunting or attend interviews without a resume, decent clothes

>or transportation.

Yes, yes it is.

>6) Many people are on welfare because they don't have the skills needed to

>look for work, let alone get a job. But the government has denied funding

>to every single job training and job re-entry program in the province,

>including the program that helped me to get a job. This includes services

>to people with disabilities. I once had a job counsellor who specialized

>in working with people who are on the spectrum. Her job is now gone.

That is absolutely ridiculous! No wonder you're angry with your government!

I would be, too!

>This does not sound like " compassion " to me.

No, I have to agree. It doesn't sound very compassionate.

[Guest guest]

>

> Don't they have dental schools there that will treat people at a very low

> cost?

>That's what the poor do here. Dental isn't covered here other than

There is a dental school that offers basic services like cleaning, but

they still charge money. Not much, but when you're supposed to live on

$510 a month (and the average bachelor apartment costs $500 a month) you

just don't have the money for anything other than rent.

>

>

> >3) Welfare does not cover the cost of a telephone. How can one get call

> >backs for jobs when they don't have telephones?

>

> They don't have those job centers up there that will help with that? I've

They used to. But the job centres were funded by government. Government

took away their funding, so no more job centres.

>

> >5) A person on welfare cannot afford a professional resume service or even

> >a computer (unless they had one before becoming unemployed.)

>

> Again, job centers do that. Canada is so progressive in so many ways, I'm

> stunned to hear they don't have these servicse.

Again, job centres were funded by government, and government took away the

funding. There are programs for people on unemployment insurance, but not

for people on welfare. In fact, all the job programs have big signs that

say " Program is not for people on welfare. "

> >They cannot

> >afford decent clothes for a job interview.

>

> Salvation Army, Goodwill and other low-cost clothing options maintain

> professional outfits for people. I

Again, you still have to have money, even to buy second-hand clothes.

Professional outfits cost more than plain ordinary jeans and t-shirts.

When you can't afford food, you can't afford second hand clothes, either.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

--Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

>

> I've talked to several people who use wheelchairs who have gotten a really

> bad deal from the " workfare " program.

From what I have heard about " workfare " , many people are laying off paid

staff in order to " hire " workfare recipients. These people don't cost

anything in terms of wages, because they work in order to get welfare.

(This means they work for less than minimum wage.) Then, when the laid-off

employees go on welfare, they get " hired " back into their old jobs,

working for welfare. They have the same job but get paid much less.

There used to be a program here called " earnings exemption. " If you were

on welfare and you found part time work, you could " keep " 25 percent of

your wages without it being deducted from your welfare cheque. I did that

for a few years. The problem is that welfare is such a bureaucratic

nightmare, it's practically a part-time job in itself. I was forever

having to take time off work to go to the welfare office and supply them

with paperwork, or track down a missing cheque, or sign a paper of some

sort, or give them a letter from my doctor telling them why I needed

certain medications, or a letter from my employer telling how many hours I

worked. It's a good thing my employer was understanding, otherwise I would

have lost my job due to the demands put on me by the welfare system.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

--Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

They were doing that in this state (Washington)--I remember reading about

this last year. I'm not sure what they're doing now, but since there are

budget problems in the state they probably aren't doing any better.

Norah

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:02:56 -0700

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Hey, a Big Thanks to Neil!

>

> I've never known anyone who went through a program like that. Which ones

> are doing that? (I like to steer my friends away from bad deals and towards

> good ones whenever I can.)

[Guest guest]

That's awful!! How do they expect people to get off welfare if they can't

get into a job program? Many people on welfare would love to get off of it

if they could get decent job training!!

I too had thought Canada was so progressive.

Norah

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:17:55 -0800 (PST)

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Hey, a Big Thanks to Neil!

>

> Again, job centres were funded by government, and government took away the

> funding. There are programs for people on unemployment insurance, but not

> for people on welfare. In fact, all the job programs have big signs that

> say " Program is not for people on welfare. "

[Guest guest]

> That's awful!! How do they expect people to get off welfare if they

> can't get into a job program? Many people on welfare would love to get

> off of it if they could get decent job training!!

This isn't the entire country, just my province, but it's getting to be

like that all over. More and more right-wing provincial governments are

being elected. They think people choose to be poor and that if they'd just

get off their butts, they could get off welfare. My government is cutting

a lot of people off disability, as well.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

--Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

At 03:17 PM 1/18/03 -0800, Iris M. Gray wrote:

>There is a dental school that offers basic services like cleaning, but

>they still charge money. Not much, but when you're supposed to live on

>$510 a month (and the average bachelor apartment costs $500 a month) you

>just don't have the money for anything other than rent.

I have lived on about $500/month for years now. When I've lived in areas

where the apartments were more expensive, I've gotten a roommate. (I guess

they don't have anything like Section 8 housing up there.) I could manage

to live in Chicago on $500/month (not luxury living, but I never went

hungry or lacked for clothes or dental care) and that city's so expensive

it costs the same to park a car there as it costs to pay rent, utilities,

phone and groceries here! (Which is a big part of why I decided to move.)

When I lived in Louisville (which is more expensive than here but much

cheaper than chicago) the apartments cost the sum total of my check and I

also had a very hard time finding an apartment because no one would rent to

a single pregnant woman. I got a man to help me get an apartment by

claiming to be my husband and then I got a female roommate to move in (the

man went back to his own home where he was someone else's husband.) Then I

lived on the other half of my check. I bought a computer (a used one), kept

the phone line on (which involved heavy negotiations and having my long

distance turned off when someone came over to visit and used my phone to

call sex lines while I and my roommate were sleeping), not only kept myself

fed but often cooked food for other people, and collected nice clothes

(though I didn't need them since I was on disability and not looking for a

job. (Subtract some of the dinners I fed to other people and there's

job-hunting money.) It can be done -- people in the States do it all the

time on disability and welfare. It's not always easy and a person has to be

flexible and willing to problem-solve.

I'm sorry to hear that the Canadian government is closing up their

opportunities for people on welfare and starving them out. That's really

disheartening to hear. I always held Canada up in my mind as one of the

countries that showed the world how to make things work but my respect for

the country has dropped several notches after hearing what they're doing.

[Guest guest]

At 03:22 PM 1/18/03 -0800, Iris M. Gray wrote:

>>From what I have heard about " workfare " , many people are laying off paid

>staff in order to " hire " workfare recipients. These people don't cost

>anything in terms of wages, because they work in order to get welfare.

>(This means they work for less than minimum wage.)

Apparently workfare is different in different places. In the state where I

live, the workfare program (which will be in place later this year) is

designed to get people real jobs at real wages and it also provides for

re-training (vocational) or re-education (collegiate.) It sounds like the

workfare where you live is just plain stupid.

[Guest guest]

That sounds like a really good program. It's too bad it can't be

standardized in all the states, or be a federal program.

Norah

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:09:46 -0700

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Hey, a Big Thanks to Neil!

>

> Apparently workfare is different in different places. In the state where I

> live, the workfare program (which will be in place later this year) is

> designed to get people real jobs at real wages and it also provides for

> re-training (vocational) or re-education (collegiate.) It sounds like the

> workfare where you live is just plain stupid.

[Guest guest]

At 08:10 PM 1/18/03 -0800, Norah Willett wrote:

>That sounds like a really good program. It's too bad it can't be

>standardized in all the states, or be a federal program.

I don't like putting too many things in the hands of the federal government

that the states can deal with individually. I prefer to keep government as

small as possible and I like the fact that I don't have to live by

California's or Oregon's laws so I'm not a big supporter of turning

state-managed things over to the federal government.

[Guest guest]

That's a good point.

Norah

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:10:53 -0700

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Hey, a Big Thanks to Neil!

>

> At 08:10 PM 1/18/03 -0800, Norah Willett wrote:

>> That sounds like a really good program. It's too bad it can't be

>> standardized in all the states, or be a federal program.

>

> I don't like putting too many things in the hands of the federal government

> that the states can deal with individually. I prefer to keep government as

> small as possible and I like the fact that I don't have to live by

> California's or Oregon's laws so I'm not a big supporter of turning

> state-managed things over to the federal government.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> When I lived in Louisville (which is more expensive than here but much

> cheaper than chicago) the apartments cost the sum total of my check and I

> also had a very hard time finding an apartment because no one would rent to

> a single pregnant woman. I got a man to help me get an apartment by

> claiming to be my husband

Here in B.C., if someone says that he's your husband, he has to report to

the welfare people, and his income is deducted from your total welfare

income. My boyfriend and I have talked about moving in together, but if we

did his income would be taken out of my disability cheque. Which sucks,

because if we shared a place it would cost less rent and he could help me

do things I have trouble doing (carrying groceries, making phone calls to

people, household repairs, etc.)

Up until a few years ago there was a federal law called the Canada

Assistance Act, which set out rules for what provinces could legally

demand of people on welfare, and minimum levels of assistance. That law

was abolished, and since then the more right-wing conservative provinces

have enacted legislation reducing the total allowance, cutting people off

assistance after a certain length of time, taking away the " earning

exemption, " not allowing people to receive assistance if they have lived

in the province for less than three months, and various other things.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

--Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

> At 03:22 PM 1/18/03 -0800, Iris M. Gray wrote:

>

> >>From what I have heard about " workfare " , many people are laying off paid

> >staff in order to " hire " workfare recipients. These people don't cost

> >anything in terms of wages, because they work in order to get welfare.

> >(This means they work for less than minimum wage.)

>

> Apparently workfare is different in different places. In the state where I

> live, the workfare program (which will be in place later this year) is

> designed to get people real jobs at real wages and it also provides for

> re-training (vocational) or re-education (collegiate.) It sounds like the

> workfare where you live is just plain stupid.

We don't have workfare (yet). This is just what I've read in American

magazines and newspapers about workfare after various politicians talked

about implementing it in B.C. The way they do it in your area sounds like

a very good plan. But since it is beneficial to poor people, the

politicians here won't use it as a model.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Most women use vacuum cleaners. I rent a forklift.

--Jane Yeats, " Sudden Blow "

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

At 11:32 PM 1/18/03 -0800, Iris M. Gray wrote:

>

>

>>

>> When I lived in Louisville (which is more expensive than here but much

>> cheaper than chicago) the apartments cost the sum total of my check and I

>> also had a very hard time finding an apartment because no one would rent to

>> a single pregnant woman. I got a man to help me get an apartment by

>> claiming to be my husband

>

>Here in B.C., if someone says that he's your husband, he has to report to

>the welfare people, and his income is deducted from your total welfare

>income.

We only told the landlord that so I could get a place to live and stop

being homeless. If the government had decided to investigate, they would

have seen that he did not live with me, was married to someone else and I

was not married.

>My boyfriend and I have talked about moving in together, but if we

>did his income would be taken out of my disability cheque. Which sucks,

>because if we shared a place it would cost less rent and he could help me

>do things I have trouble doing (carrying groceries, making phone calls to

>people, household repairs, etc.)

That totally sucks! Here, my boyfriend's income is not counted against me

and he is counted as a roommate so it's just considered that I split the

bills with someone. He and I are not married and this is not a common law

state so he is not legally responsible for me or my debts in any way.

Because of that, they cannot count him and his income against me for my

medical assistance or disability money any more than they could if I shared

an apartment with some friend or rented out part of my apartment to a local

college student to make ends meet. It's just recorded in my file that I'm

responsible for half the rent and half the utilities.

>Up until a few years ago there was a federal law called the Canada

>Assistance Act, which set out rules for what provinces could legally

>demand of people on welfare, and minimum levels of assistance. That law

>was abolished, and since then the more right-wing conservative provinces

>have enacted legislation reducing the total allowance, cutting people off

>assistance after a certain length of time, taking away the " earning

>exemption, " not allowing people to receive assistance if they have lived

>in the province for less than three months, and various other things.

That's horrible! I had no idea that things were so Draconian in Canada!

This has really been an eye-opener for me!