Re: a question for the female folk.....

October 12, 2002

Nanne dreamed lazily into the stars:

>This is confusing to me, and , not meaning to be too nosy, how are you in

>a relationship? Or do you mean a platonic relationship?

(Forgive me for using odd grammar today -- I have an impressive

vision-scrambling headache and didn't sleep well. Kinda in shutdown mode...)

I'm in a long-distance relationship with Parrish, my email penpal of four

years -- I live on the coast of Northern California, and he lives way over

in land. He spent 3.5 years gradually earning my trust, demonstrating

over-and-over-again through his description of daily life that he would go

out of his way to not cause harm to anyone and (like me) was compelled to

help others. I've never known anyone that didn't intentionally or

accidentally harm others on a regular basis out of pain or selfishness --

nobody at all. That formed the foundation for first platonic love, then

romantic interest leading to being in love.

We're often not platonic online (we finally conquered my negative reaction

to text describing touching me)... I do not know if we can get past my

fear of being physically near someone in real life, but I know he will not

pressure or force even so much as a handshake, so I am willing to head down

that path to learn. I will be flying to visit him later this year, and

we'll have to see where things go from there...

mustang@... ~~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

" He was said to have the body of a twenty-five year old,

although no one knew where he kept it. "

-- Terry Pratchett, " Men At Arms "

October 13, 2002

All these suggestions are great. :-) I would love any accounts or other

suggestions that any of you want to share. You can send them direct to

melech@... if you want to declutter the list. Thanks so much,

sandi

Re: a question for the female folk.....

>

> > It just occurred to me, you might want to bring some soft squeeze-balls

> > that are usually used for strengthening the wrists... One tends to want

to

> > hold on tightly to *something* when in serious pain, and that works as

well

> > as anything.

>

> That's a bad idea for labor coping. The best way to cope with labor is to

RELAX and go with the sensations rather than fighting them and tensing up.

>

> I studied the Bradley Method of natural childbirth

(http://www.bradleybirth.com/) which has a 90% success rate for unmedicated

childbirth (The LaMaze method only has a 20% success rate for unmedicated

births) and as a result, giving birth was a very intense but very

exhilarating and wonderful experience.

>

> The pain of childbirth is different from the sort of pain that goes along

with an injury or surgery. For one thing, the body is releasing all sorts of

hormones designed to open things up and to allow thebody to cope with the

unusual sensations. For another, tensing *any* part of the body, whether

it's the hands, legs or even mouth will cause the rest of the body to

undergo a sort of sympathetic tensing which means the cervix will be

fighting against tension to dilate and everything will be worse. Breathe

deeply and slowly (not hyperventilating like LaMaze teaches. LaMaze is where

we get the TV image of a person giving birth with everyone shouting at them

to breathe.) and work on relaxing every bit of the body, especially at the

peak of a contraction.

>

> I highly recommend that every woman expecting her first child attend

childbirth education classes. There are so many myths and scare stories in

our culture about childbirth that it's invaluable to defuse them before

going through labor.

>

> > Also, if you have the option, absolutely go with spinal ( " epidural " )

> > anesthetic. I had one for abdominal surgery in March, and was actually

> > able to not only stay awake through the whole thing, but joke with the

> > surgeon as he worked. Quite marvelous. I've been in enough pain to

have

> > absolutely no inclination to prove myself by undergoing more!

>

> I've been with a woman who got an epidural and talked to several others

who had them and, at least in childbirth, they do not remove the pain,

merely blunt it. There's no shame in taking medications during childbirth,

of course, but it's best to avoid it if possible. An epidural puts more

stress on the infant and can even make it difficult for them to breathe when

they're first born (though fortunately there's a full staff right there,

waiting to rescuscitate the baby.)

>

> My aunt had two medicated births followed by an accidentally unmedicated

birth due to a blizzard. She told me afterwards that if she'd known what it

was like she'd have never taken an epidural for the other two. As she put

it, " I found out with Ray's birth that by the time the doctor approves an

epidural, the worst part is already over. "

>

> It's also a good idea to avoid pitocin if possible. Pitocin is an

artificial hormone given to women to speed up their labors (because doctors

don't like to have to be on call for twelve hours when they could be out

golfing instead.) There are three sets of criss-crossing muscle layers in

the uterus. Pitocin only stimulates one of them. SO labor on pitocin is

EXTREMELY painful and can even damage the uterus (with too much pitocin it

can literally pull itself apart.) Better ways to work with a labor that

seems to be slowing are to get up and walk around, to get on elbows and

knees and rock back and forth in that position (sounds kind of stimmy :-)

and, above all, to RELAX. Tensing up will slow labor.

>

> A better use for balls is to bring tennis balls and have a caretaker roll

them up and down on the lower spine. It feels marvelous (it takes a LOT of

strength ont he caretaker's part to press hard enough! You'll be telling

them to press harder and they'll be amazed at how much pressure you want

there.) and it helps ease the tension and pains of labor.

>

> I've known women who were total wusses when it came to pain yet were able

to have an unmedicated birth with very little difficulty so it's not about

my high pain threshhold. Labor is just a different kind of pain (I have this

theory that women either totally exaggerate their labor stories to get

sympathy from men or are so afraid of their bodies and their processes that

they tense up and make labor a hundred times worse for themselves than it

ever needs to be.) and whether you take an epidural or go unmedicated,

Sandi, rest assured that you'll be just fine so long as you relax and don't

fight the process.

>

October 13, 2002

The other side of that is that the _relative_ naivete and passivity of female

aspies means

that they are easy prey for abusive people. The same thing that makes many of

the males

(and females) easy prey for abuse in the playground makes females vulnerable to

abusive or

predatory types. So many females on the spectrum have been seriously mistreated

in

relationships... I have no statistics, but it seems like more than half of them,

just from

talking to them.

-------This topic alone could make for an entire book..... and how younger

Spectrumites can learn about boundaries and how to establish them in

relationships to prevent being taken advantage of.

I worry about these very things for Max, as he's very good hearted (and very

good looking) and already females are beginning to sniff around, lol.

I'll never forget when he was 8, and a neighbor kid was trying to fool him

and rip him off on a trading card deal, before I stepped in. I told him,

" look, you have to be careful and not just trust what someone is saying, b/c

they will take advantage of you. " And the look on his face...he was so shocked

by the concept! " They WILL?? Why? " , to which I could only answer that

unfortunately many people are this way.

And yet, while I can TELL him that, and discuss the CONCEPT, it is still

difficult to apply in my own situations with people as they are happening.

Nanne

October 13, 2002

All these suggestions are great. :-) I would love any accounts or other

suggestions that any of you want to share. You can send them direct to

melech@... if you want to declutter the list. Thanks so much,

------Well, if and some of the other AS men here truly don't want to be

left out from some AS female experiences, this is certainly an area they might

be able to learn some stuff!

LOL,

Nanne

October 14, 2002

I think a female only list would be similar to one of the NT sort of " Womens "

lists. Here's what I mean. I apologize if I am repeating something that someone

already said, as I have not been able to read all my backlog of posts.

Part of the difficulty between the sexes in general is lack of communication.

Guys share with their " buddies " and women share with theirs. They do not share

with each other, at least not in the same manner. We are taught from a young age

that certain things are not appropriate to discuss with the opposite sex. This

is counterproductive and stupid. How is a couple supposed to understand each

other's needs? In addition, this has created a natural defensiveness. If you

communicate directly, it is perceived as rude. So, there is no communication

outside of subtle cues, which are almost always misunderstood. NT men are

constantly trying to understand " women " .

There really is no difference in my mind between male and female other than

anatomy. If a man is uncomfortable discussing some issues, such as female

anatomy, it is likely due to nurture, not nature. And why should a man be

embarrassed to discuss issues of his own anatomy among women? We are all created

with parts that complete the whole. A man having a penis and woman having a

vagina is no different than one person having black skin and another white. Yet,

I do not see black skinned people afraid to discuss styling their kinky hair

among white people with straight hair. Personally, I will talk about anything in

the company of men or women. If they are uncomfortable, they can opt out of the

conversation or change their thinking.

One thing I have noticed almost universally on AS lists is that if I do not know

otherwise, I often cannot tell if member is male or female. Autistic men and

women seem to be of one mind much more so that NTs. I think this should be

encouraged. Having separate discussions will no doubt close some doors which are

for the moment open.

Tigger

TTFN!

Personal Page: http://www.tiggersbouncinplace.com

MX Developers Studio: http://forums.delphiforums.com/visualdeveloper

Girl Geek Club: http://groups.msn.com/GirlGeekClub

" A successful man is one who can build a firm foundation with the bricks that

others throw at him. " ( Brinkley)

October 15, 2002

<<<A man having a penis and woman having a vagina is no different than one

person having black skin and another white. Yet, I do not see black skinned

people afraid to discuss styling their kinky hair among white people with

straight hair.>>>

Not to change the subject here, but now I feel terribly sheltered. I've been

around black people all my life but no one ever discussed hair care in my

presence. I got curious at one point and went to the library and read a book

about black hair care so that's how I know some things about how black hair

needs to be treated, but I had to seek the information out because no one ever

talked about it in front of me. About a decade ago, I asked my friend, , if

I could feel his hair because I realized that had never touched a black person's

hair before. ( was happy to let me and I thought it felt very nice.) I also

learned about " ashy skin " from reading that library book but no one ever

mentioned it in front of me before.)

So, anyway, apparently not all black people feel comfortable discussing their

special grooming needs in front of white people. Or maybe it's just me they

don't feel comfortable talking in front of. :-) (I hope not!)

October 15, 2002

I agree. I tend to skip the messages about computers because I am woefully

computer illiterate compared to many of the people here. Every once in a

while something in one of the messages about computers catches my eye, and I

read it and learn a bit. Super! I don't see that as being any different at

all than messages about predominantly " female " subjects, but I've never been

one to censor myself just because there are males around. If they get bored

or squeamish...fine...they don't have to listen (or read). If they happen

to be interested...great...communication is a great thing.

It might not be a bad idea to put a warning in the subject line if the

message is going to be graphic so anyone who wants can opt out, but from

what I've experienced, men are much less " fragile " than a lot of women give

them credit for ;o). The male friends that I have had (many, many more than

female friends) always seem to appreciate my candidness and willingness to

not participate in the game of keeping certain " female " information secret

from men. I've had guys tell me that they appreciate that when they ask me

a question they get an answer, not a game.

There's my opinion about gender divisions. ly, a group for aspie women

would probably scare me...just like groups of women irl scare me ).

Re: a question for the female folk.....

> I think a female only list would be similar to one of the NT sort of

" Womens " lists. Here's what I mean. I apologize if I am repeating something

that someone already said, as I have not been able to read all my backlog of

posts.

>

> Part of the difficulty between the sexes in general is lack of

communication. Guys share with their " buddies " and women share with theirs.

They do not share with each other, at least not in the same manner. We are

taught from a young age that certain things are not appropriate to discuss

with the opposite sex. This is counterproductive and stupid. How is a couple

supposed to understand each other's needs? In addition, this has created a

natural defensiveness. If you communicate directly, it is perceived as rude.

So, there is no communication outside of subtle cues, which are almost

always misunderstood. NT men are constantly trying to understand " women " .

>

> There really is no difference in my mind between male and female other

than anatomy. If a man is uncomfortable discussing some issues, such as

female anatomy, it is likely due to nurture, not nature. And why should a

man be embarrassed to discuss issues of his own anatomy among women? We are

all created with parts that complete the whole. A man having a penis and

woman having a vagina is no different than one person having black skin and

another white. Yet, I do not see black skinned people afraid to discuss

styling their kinky hair among white people with straight hair. Personally,

I will talk about anything in the company of men or women. If they are

uncomfortable, they can opt out of the conversation or change their

thinking.

>

> One thing I have noticed almost universally on AS lists is that if I do

not know otherwise, I often cannot tell if member is male or female.

Autistic men and women seem to be of one mind much more so that NTs. I think

this should be encouraged. Having separate discussions will no doubt close

some doors which are for the moment open.

>

> Tigger

> TTFN!

>

> Personal Page: http://www.tiggersbouncinplace.com

> MX Developers Studio: http://forums.delphiforums.com/visualdeveloper

> Girl Geek Club: http://groups.msn.com/GirlGeekClub

>

> " A successful man is one who can build a firm foundation with the bricks

that others throw at him. " ( Brinkley)

>

October 15, 2002

Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:45 AM

> Not to change the subject here, but now I feel terribly sheltered. I've

been around black people all my life but no one ever discussed hair care in

my presence. I got curious at one point and went to the library and read a

book about black hair care so that's how I know some things about how black

hair needs to be treated, but I had to seek the information out because no

one ever talked about it in front of me. About a decade ago, I asked my

friend, , if I could feel his hair because I realized that had never

touched a black person's hair before. ( was happy to let me and I

thought it felt very nice.) I also learned about " ashy skin " from reading

that library book but no one ever mentioned it in front of me before.)

>

> So, anyway, apparently not all black people feel comfortable discussing

their special grooming needs in front of white people. Or maybe it's just me

they don't feel comfortable talking in front of. :-) (I hope not!)

Several years ago I had a roommate (white) whose boyfriend (black) was

always complaining about his skin being ashy. My roommate had a big

disagreement with him about whether or not white people can have ashy skin.

She said yes, he said no. It was a pretty amusing argument.

I generally don't discuss hair and skin care randomly, but I've met people

who do...both white and black. Maybe you just haven't met anyone who thinks

it makes interesting conversation.

October 15, 2002

At 08:45 AM 10/15/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>

><<<A man having a penis and woman having a vagina is no different than one

>person having black skin and another white. Yet, I do not see black

>skinned people afraid to discuss styling their kinky hair among white

>people with straight hair.>>>

Civil rights and " sexual equality " are two different ball games though.

> About a decade ago, I asked my friend, , if I could feel his hair

> because I realized that had never touched a black person's hair before.

> ( was happy to let me and I thought it felt very nice.)

When was young (pre school) he " greeted " people by touching their

hair. I remember he especially liked to " greet " the black twins at the

daycare he attended part time.

-jypsy

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

October 15, 2002

>>>Not to change the subject here, but now I feel terribly sheltered. I've been